"Nintendo exists to make money"

[Princess Rescuer]

Whenever I criticize any action Nintendo or Sakurai or whoever takes involving the direction of the Smash Franchise, I often get met with weak, manufactured excuses made by people who are just upset that any criticism is related to Smash, no matter how constructive it is. One of them is "Nintendo exists to make money" which is true, but doesn't explain their recent DLC characters. Another is "Nintendo isn't making games for you" which doesn't make any sense, as it contradicts the previous one. If they aren't making games for me, why am I expected to like them? Also, that doesn't explain Nintendo fans' pathological hatred for the Wii. And a lot of their recent decisions have been some of the worst possible things that could happen to their money-making.

First off was Joker. A character exclusive to a PS4 game. This wasn't even an old PlayStation game like Cloud was from- no, this was a CURRENT one- receiving a glowing endorsement from a competitor. I've talked about how baffling this was.

Next was Banjo and Kazooie. Now, I have mixed feelings about B&K. On one hand, B&K was a heavily requested fan character that fits well with Smash. It's also a character that originated on a Nintendo console. Even though there had already been 3 generations of Xbox at this point, better late than never. However, Sakurai did something VERY stupid that, if he were a lower ranking employee, would have gotten him immediately fired- he gave ANOTHER glowing endorsement to ANOTHER competing console.

Now, I am a very well-rounded gamer who enjoys a variety of games and platforms. However, if you are a Nintendo executive, promoting competitors is not your job- especially if you are Japanese. Japanese gamers are well-known for having much less disposable income for gaming and much more risk-averse tastes- ESPECIALLY when it comes to consoles. Basically, they're more likely to be devoted to one console brand as far as current games go. Usually, when a Japanese gamer leaves one console for another, they're not coming back. Nintendo endorsing not one but TWO of their main current competitors- in their Japanese advertisements- is MONUMENTALLY bad for making money.

The Dragon Quest Heroes and Terry are okay. They're on Nintendo, but they're also on other consoles as well. They're fine.

Byleth would seem the best choice. A Nintendo character and also has the chance of promoting a recent Nintendo exclusive game as well. Problem is? It's a sword character from Fire Emblem. I'm not alone in this- the Byleth trailer on Nintendo's YouTube channel is getting RATIOED harder than any previous character. I am in the minority for finding problems with Joker and BK, seeing as the likes greatly outweigh the dislikes. But with Byleth, fans have had enough. There are too many Fire Emblem characters- and they don't explore the full variety of character and weapon types seen in any Fire Emblem title. Believe it or not, Fire Emblem actually has an interesting, diverse cast of characters. It ISN'T a series full of bland, self-insert sword characters like Smash makes it out to be. We are WEARY of Fire Emblem sword characters, and there isn't anyone with a flute around to make us less weary. Plus, Smash already has numerous main characters from other Fire Emblem games that failed to promote their games, and they think it'll be different now? Give it up already!

Worse yet, each uninteresting character that gets made also results in a more interesting character not getting made. We could have had Octolings and Funky Kong, two characters that would have been cool additions on their own and would also sell current-gen Nintendo games along with it. I'm not interested in the money Fire Emblem characters and games are making. I'm interested in the greater amount of money other characters and games COULD be making.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Just a quick correction for your post.

At the time of Joker's release/announcement, he was not exclusive to a PS4 game. Persona Q2 is a spinoff in the Persona series and was exclusively on 3DS. It released in November of 2018 In Japan and June in NA and Europe. Persona 5 Scramble has also been in development for quite some time for Switch.

 

[Oddball]

You see to place far too much value on your own opinion and you strike me as a person that doesn't udnerstand how or why anyone wouldn't agree with you.

But really, what makes you the expert on what characters are okay, which ones aren't, and how the company should best go about making money?

You talk about Funky Kong and octolings as great ideas but Terry and the Dragon Quest guys are just okay. You do realize that there are a lot of gamers that actually enjoy the SNK fighters and Dragon Quest games right? Some of them even ones that would prefer those to your choices? I'm not sure you do understand that though. Your very first paragraph tells us you don't believe Nintendo could possibly make games that aren't for you personally.

Other people have opinions.

Basically you could have saved everyone here, including yourself a lot of time with "There was a Fire Emblem character added to the game. I don't like it," which plenty of people have already said and really doesn't need another topic devoted to it.

 

[Jomosensual]

This is your 3rd angry thread on Byleth. He/she was revealed 3 days ago. Give it up

 

[meleebrawler]

You see to place far too much value on your own opinion and you strike me as a person that doesn't udnerstand how or why anyone wouldn't agree with you.

But really, what makes you the expert on what characters are okay, which ones aren't, and how the company should best go about making money?

You talk about Funky Kong and octolings as great ideas but Terry and the Dragon Quest guys are just okay. You do realize that there are a lot of gamers that actually enjoy the SNK fighters and Dragon Quest games right? Some of them even ones that would prefer those to your choices? I'm not sure you do understand that though. Your very first paragraph tells us you don't believe Nintendo could possibly make games that aren't for you personally.

Other people have opinions.

Basically you could have saved everyone here, including yourself a lot of time with "There was a Fire Emblem character added to the game. I don't like it," which plenty of people have already said and really doesn't need another topic devoted to it.

He did that and the thread was locked down in record time. So not only does he spam new threads to exasperate the mods from checking and closing them, he also masks his Byleth hate under the pretense of arguing different practices. The DLC cost argument thread surprisingly has no mention of Byleth, but isn't awfully conspicuous he brings this up now when the price hasn't changed at any point?

 

[Princess Rescuer]

Believe it or not, I'm not unpleasable. There have been Smash installments in the past with consistently glowing character choices. Brawl, in particular, remains the gold standard for crowd-pleasing new character choices.

Diddy- Individual character with worldwide appeal and excellent moves that balance references and actual attacks. Great choice.

Wario- Individual character with worldwide appeal and excellent moves that balance references and actual attacks. Great choice.

Lucario- Not the most popular pokemon, but was from the most recent games of the time. Very interesting gimmick and practical moveset. Great choice.

Wolf- Cool character and different enough from previous Star Fox characters. Great choice.

Lucas- Brawl came out the same year as the Mother 3 Fan Translation. Mother Mania in the West was at an all time high. Great choice.

Pit- We hadn't had a Kid Icarus ANYTHING in years before Brawl. Great choice.

Sonic- Everyone wanted to see Sonic fight Mario. And other Nintendo characters. Great choice.

Pokemon Trainer- Interesting new gimmick. Only Charizard was in Smash 4, but Trainer came back for Ultimate. Everyone loves Red and the Gen 1 Starters. Great choice.

Metaknight- Cool and useful character. Figuring out how to best him was epic. Great choice.

King Dedede- Makes Heavyweight characters useful and fun. Great choice.

Ike- Not just a Marth clone. Plays differently, good choice for novice players, and Fire Emblem characters weren't oversaturated at the time. Great choice.

Zero Suit Samus- Adds an interesting dimension to Samus. Plays differently from everyone. Great "fast but weak" character compared to "bulky but strong" regular Samus. Great choice.

My only concerns would be:

Snake- Third Party Character on a competitors console. Miss.

Toon Link- Chibi artstyle is bad and is not different enough from Link. Miss.

Olimar- Pikmin is niche and the character is very difficult to master. Miss.

Misses are few and far between. Characters appeal to everyone (not just Japan) and represent Nintendo excellently. Recent Smash characters (that we're expected to pay extra for) are VERY BAD at this. It can be done. Smash 64, Melee, and especially Brawl contained crowd-pleasing, varied choices that I wouldn't mind seeing in matches all the time. Even Smash 4, before DLC, were well-received. ONE bad character can finish a game. I wouldn't take any chances.

 

[Oddball]

ONE bad character can finish a game.

I disagree, but even if that was true, you already listed several characters you disliked so this isn't the first "bad character". Secondly, this character isn't going to finish the game even if it was the first "bad" character. Nintendo has already stated they have several more characters planned.

I wouldn't take any chances.

You won't take any chances? You say that like you're the guy making the decision on whether to include Byleth. Byleth is already here. The character is finished and is going to be included. The only way you "won't take a chance" is simply by not buying it and that affect nothing but your own copy of the game. Not the game itself. Not the company. Not the community.

 

[meleebrawler]

The response to Sony trying to deny access to multiplatform games like Fortnite on other platforms was overwhelmingly negative. Nintendo and Microsoft working out these deals is to everyone's benefit, business is about making money but despite what some cynics may say, you don't have to screw over others at every opportunity to make it.

The one time Nintendo tried something like that just made them another "enemy" in the Playstation.

 

[crazybenjamin]

However, Sakurai did something VERY stupid that, if he were a lower ranking employee, would have gotten him immediately fired- he gave ANOTHER glowing endorsement to ANOTHER competing console.

How do we know that wasn't part of the deal?
Maybe there's someone on the opposite side of the fence saying "Phil Spencer did something VERY stupid that, if he were a lower ranking employee, would have gotten him immediately fired- he gave his company's character to a competing console."

 

[Perkilator]

Whenever I criticize any action Nintendo or Sakurai or whoever takes involving the direction of the Smash Franchise, I often get met with weak, manufactured excuses made by people who are just upset that any criticism is related to Smash, no matter how constructive it is. One of them is "Nintendo exists to make money" which is true, but doesn't explain their recent DLC characters. Another is "Nintendo isn't making games for you" which doesn't make any sense, as it contradicts the previous one. If they aren't making games for me, why am I expected to like them? Also, that doesn't explain Nintendo fans' pathological hatred for the Wii. And a lot of their recent decisions have been some of the worst possible things that could happen to their money-making.

First off was Joker. A character exclusive to a PS4 game. This wasn't even an old PlayStation game like Cloud was from- no, this was a CURRENT one- receiving a glowing endorsement from a competitor. I've talked about how baffling this was.

Next was Banjo and Kazooie. Now, I have mixed feelings about B&K. On one hand, B&K was a heavily requested fan character that fits well with Smash. It's also a character that originated on a Nintendo console. Even though there had already been 3 generations of Xbox at this point, better late than never. However, Sakurai did something VERY stupid that, if he were a lower ranking employee, would have gotten him immediately fired- he gave ANOTHER glowing endorsement to ANOTHER competing console.

Now, I am a very well-rounded gamer who enjoys a variety of games and platforms. However, if you are a Nintendo executive, promoting competitors is not your job- especially if you are Japanese. Japanese gamers are well-known for having much less disposable income for gaming and much more risk-averse tastes- ESPECIALLY when it comes to consoles. Basically, they're more likely to be devoted to one console brand as far as current games go. Usually, when a Japanese gamer leaves one console for another, they're not coming back. Nintendo endorsing not one but TWO of their main current competitors- in their Japanese advertisements- is MONUMENTALLY bad for making money.

The Dragon Quest Heroes and Terry are okay. They're on Nintendo, but they're also on other consoles as well. They're fine.

Byleth would seem the best choice. A Nintendo character and also has the chance of promoting a recent Nintendo exclusive game as well. Problem is? It's a sword character from Fire Emblem. I'm not alone in this- the Byleth trailer on Nintendo's YouTube channel is getting RATIOED harder than any previous character. I am in the minority for finding problems with Joker and BK, seeing as the likes greatly outweigh the dislikes. But with Byleth, fans have had enough. There are too many Fire Emblem characters- and they don't explore the full variety of character and weapon types seen in any Fire Emblem title. Believe it or not, Fire Emblem actually has an interesting, diverse cast of characters. It ISN'T a series full of bland, self-insert sword characters like Smash makes it out to be. We are WEARY of Fire Emblem sword characters, and there isn't anyone with a flute around to make us less weary. Plus, Smash already has numerous main characters from other Fire Emblem games that failed to promote their games, and they think it'll be different now? Give it up already!

Worse yet, each uninteresting character that gets made also results in a more interesting character not getting made. We could have had Octolings and Funky Kong, two characters that would have been cool additions on their own and would also sell current-gen Nintendo games along with it. I'm not interested in the money Fire Emblem characters and games are making. I'm interested in the greater amount of money other characters and games COULD be making.

It’s fine if you like the Paaaasss~!
But why always complaaiiiin~
And think everyone agreeeees~?
Not everyone thinks the saaaaaame~!

The drama never bothered me anyway~

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I'm annoyed that Byleth got into the game, but his/her inclusion doesn't ruin the game or the rest of the fighter's pass. I'm just hoping their function outweighs who they are, because I don't think who they are is particularly interesting compared to all the other DLC fighters. That's just me though.

What's that silly stuff about not being able to make a glowing comment about another company's console? What do you expect him to do, tell people to play Banjo Kazooie and Tooie on a console that no longer makes Nintendo money just to keep it in the family? They were allowed to use Rare/Microsoft's character, he likely recommended the game on their console because it's the easiest way to play it now.

 

[Oddball]

First off was Joker. A character exclusive to a PS4 game. This wasn't even an old PlayStation game like Cloud was from- no, this was a CURRENT one- receiving a glowing endorsement from a competitor. I've talked about how baffling this was.

You're baffled by people being nice?

It's professional courtesy. You be nice to me. I'm nice to you. We get along and we both look nice.

 

[Tino]

It's hilarious that you're still mad about Byleth when it has been like 3 days since their reveal. How about you deal it with and move on.

 

[rlwrgh]

Clearly all the "mistakes" you claim are being made have not hurt Nintendo/smash much as it is the best selling fighting game ever.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Clearly all the "mistakes" you claim are being made have not hurt Nintendo/smash much as it is the best selling fighting game ever.

On a single console. Street Fighter II is still the best selling fighting game of all time.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

On a single console. Street Fighter II is still the best selling fighting game of all time.

Oh details details...

SNIP

Hey it's you again!

Have you played Rivals of Aether yet?

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Oh details details...

Well yeah, but even Sakurai made the distinction, so I'd say it's pretty important.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I'll say it again:

Take a shot every time you see a post by this user overly criticizing reasonable decisions made by the development team.

Anyway...

Whenever I criticize any action Nintendo or Sakurai or whoever takes involving the direction of the Smash Franchise, I often get met with weak, manufactured excuses made by people who are just upset that any criticism is related to Smash, no matter how constructive it is.

Pot calling a kettle black.

One of them is "Nintendo exists to make money" which is true, but doesn't explain their recent DLC characters. Another is "Nintendo isn't making games for you" which doesn't make any sense, as it contradicts the previous one. If they aren't making games for me, why am I expected to like them?

Because whether or not you like a game does not determine it's success. Nintendo makes games to profit. In order to achieve this, they make games that are enjoyable so people will buy them. But obviously not everyone will enjoy every game. If you do not like a game, that does not mean it is bad. It just means that it does not suit your interests. If enough games don't suit your interests, maybe Nintendo isn't for you.

First off was Joker. A character exclusive to a PS4 game. This wasn't even an old PlayStation game like Cloud was from- no, this was a CURRENT one- receiving a glowing endorsement from a competitor. I've talked about how baffling this was.

Joker was not PS4 exclusive. Persona Q2 was a 3DS exclusive at the time of Joker's announcement.

Next was Banjo and Kazooie. Now, I have mixed feelings about B&K. On one hand, B&K was a heavily requested fan character that fits well with Smash. It's also a character that originated on a Nintendo console. Even though there had already been 3 generations of Xbox at this point, better late than never. However, Sakurai did something VERY stupid that, if he were a lower ranking employee, would have gotten him immediately fired- he gave ANOTHER glowing endorsement to ANOTHER competing console.

You're saying this as if Sakurai just blurted out "go play Banjo and Kazooie" without Nintendo's permission. It was probably a situation where Microsoft scratched Nintendo's back, so Nintendo scratched Microsoft's back. Stop making such big assumptions for the sake of adding weight to your argument.

Now, I am a very well-rounded gamer who enjoys a variety of games and platforms. However, if you are a Nintendo executive, promoting competitors is not your job- especially if you are Japanese.

"I'm well rounded"
"Why isn't Nintendo making games for me?"

Bruh

Worse yet, each uninteresting character that gets made also results in a more interesting character not getting made.

So what's the solution? Add every interesting character ever? Some characters will be added. Some won't. There isn't a definitive chart comparing all potential newcomers to one another to decide who's the best choice. Nintendo chose to add Byleth most likely keeping dozens of variables in mind. Additionally, "popular" characters that people like to point at might not be as widely known among the developers (see King K. Rool).

I'm not psyched about Byleth's inclusion either. I wish they would have added a character that wasn't yet another anime prettyboy that doubled as a FE advertisement. But I got over it quickly, and as a huge fan of Three Houses, I'm excited to see how Byleth will play out. If you're not happy, that's fine. You have a right to be disappointed. But that doesn't give you a right to disparage the developers, call attention to yourself, and spam this forum with threads lacking in actual discussion.

This thread should be locked since it's basically the OP ranting about not getting their way.

I have spoken.

 

[Planet Cool]

I really don't care which faceless conglomerates own which characters. I only care if the characters are cool. Joker, Terry, Dragon Quest Guy, and especially Banjo-Kazooie were all phenomenal choices.