Nintendo deleting posts about Project M on MiiVerse + some questions about modding

[Yurya]

Remember that Nintendo is based in Japan where free speech is not such a wide spread idea. If that clears up Nintendo's actions on Miiverse.

Now copyright law works, for the most part, across nation boundaries and prohibits distribution of copyrighted material. PM cannot (without legitimate risk of legislation) distribute anything copyrighted (for an item to be copyrighted in the US it just needs to be created). This means that the PMBR cannot distribute any original content of Nintendo's. What they do distribute is their own created files; you still need Brawl, a Wii, and to acquire an SD card.

Now intellectual property (ideas) are also copyrighted and protected from reuse if it can be shown the copier had access to the original content. What poodoas was saying about returning Melee stages is a legitimate concern here as it is pretty clear the PMBR were very aware of Melee when creating PM. What had protected PM thus far is the fact that none of this is done for profit (not by the PMBR, streamers like VGBC, and tournament winners are separate).

The simple idea of modding in game characters isn't illegal but once ideas are "cut & pasted" from other games it does begin to broach copyrights. Melee & 64 stages, Roy and Mewtwo's movesets are "issues" that may broach Intellectual Property rights.

That said 3.0 is already released and even if Nintendo does send a cease and desist it won't stop copies from being available or make a person guilty for using them.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Wait what about the models from other games ie the stage Skyloft contains models and textures from Skyward Sword, and the returning melee stages? isn't that using copyrighted material from other games? would that make Project M illegal?

1) Go to your SD Card
2) Go through the folders: projectm -> pf -> stage -> melee
3) Look through this list to determine what new stages to delete (I really don't feel like going through all this atm, so figure this out on your own. You can also just delete all the following files):

Spoiler

Battle Field STGBATTLEFIELD.PAC
Yoshi's Island STGCRAYON.PAC
Delphino Plaza STGDOLPIC.PAC
75m STGDONKEY.PAC
Big Blue (Melee) STGDXBIGBLUE.PAC
Corneria (Melee) STGDXCORNERIA.PAC
Jungle Japes (Melee) STGDXGARDEN.PAC
Green Greens (Melee) STGDXGREENS.PAC
Onett (Melee) STGDXONETT.PAC
Pokemon Stadium (Melee) STGDXPSTADIUM.PAC
Rainbow Cruise (Melee) STGDXRCRUISE.PAC
Temple (Melee) STGDXSHRINE.PAC
Yoshi's Island (Melee) STGDXYORSTER.PAC
Brinstar (Melee) STGDXZEBES.PAC
Distant Planet STGEARTH.PAC
Mario Bros. STGFAMICOM.PAC
Final Destination STGFINAL.PAC
Port Town Aero Dive STGFZERO.PAC
Green Hill STGGREENHILL.PAC
Flat Zone 2 STGGW.PAC
Halberd STGHALBERD.PAC
Summit STGICE.PAC
Rumble Falls STGJUNGLE.PAC
Mario Circuit STGKART.PAC
Warioware, Inc. STGMADEIN.PAC
Luigi's Mansion STGMANSION.PAC
Mushroomy Kingdom 1 STGMARIOPAST_00.PAC
Mushroomy Kingdom 2 STGMARIOPAST_01.PAC
Shadow Moses Isle (Rex) STGMETALGEAR_00.PAC
Shadow Moses Isle (Ray) STGMETALGEAR_01.PAC
Shadow Moses (Gecko) STGMETALGEAR_02.PAC
New Pork City STGNEWPORK.PAC
Norfair STGNORFAIR.PAC
Bridge of Eldin STGOLDIN.PAC
Frigate Orpheon STGORPHEON.PAC
Skyworld STGPALUTENA.PAC
Pictochat STGPICTCHAT_en.PAC
Pirate Ship STGPIRATES.PAC
Hanenbow STGPLANKTON.PAC
Pokemon Stadium 2 STGSTADIUM.PAC
Spear Pillar (Dialga) STGTENGAN_1.PAC
Spear Pillar (Palkia) STGTENGAN_2.PAC
Spear Pillar (Cresselia)STGTENGAN_3.PAC

4) Go back to the pf folder, and open the "module" folder
5) Delete the corresponding "st_name.rel" files of the STGNAME.PAC files that you have deleted.

I may update the above list of which files to delete, though I don't really feel like doing all the work either. :/

 

[Lil Puddin]

If this is a touchy subject for these boards then feel free to delete this.

I recently discovered that Nintendo will delete your MiiVerse posts if you're talking about Project M and will give you a warning about talking about "illegal material". This doesn't surprise me, but it makes me question exactly what parts of modding are legal and illegal or whatever.

I've always just had a bit of a vague understanding of all this, if you own the console and game then it's your property and you can do what you want with it, right? Or is all modding by default considered Circumvention of Copyright Protection, and thus is illegal? Does Project M get away with it because it has a hackless method of installation?

Just trying to get a better grasp on this subject, you guys seem like the experts

You are looking into it waaaaaaaay to deep.

You constantly agree to whenever you use a Nintendo product is that you will not modify anything and are taken what's given. Anything dealing with modifications is not supported by official Nintendo representatives or other parties associated with Nintendo. Think of it this way, what they say is not a law they care about and they are not looking to enforce any laws. They, however, want to discourage modifications because it could damage systems and void warrenties. If you do mod and ask for help after you break something, they will just go "lol no, don't waste our time!" but they won't sue you over it.

As for the legal/illegal thing you're asking about, here's the TLDR.
"Can you do it normally by using the ways the game gives you or tells you about?"
Yes - legal modifications set via means inside the game's set range.
No - illegal modification set via means outside the game's set range.

They just don't want you spreading the word about mods. There's a whole slew of reasons why they don't want mods to be talked about. But the main reason they use is "because we said so and because you agreed to it we can have some power to enforce it if it gets out of hand."

 

[210stuna]

Dildo64~<3

 

[Divine Mercy]

You are looking into it waaaaaaaay to deep.

You constantly agree to whenever you use a Nintendo product is that you will not modify anything and are taken what's given. Anything dealing with modifications is not supported by official Nintendo representatives or other parties associated with Nintendo. Think of it this way, what they say is not a law they care about and they are not looking to enforce any laws. They, however, want to discourage modifications because it could damage systems and void warrenties. If you do mod and ask for help after you break something, they will just go "lol no, don't waste our time!" but they won't sue you over it.

As for the legal/illegal thing you're asking about, here's the TLDR.
"Can you do it normally by using the ways the game gives you or tells you about?"
Yes - legal modifications set via means inside the game's set range.
No - illegal modification set via means outside the game's set range.

They just don't want you spreading the word about mods. There's a whole slew of reasons why they don't want mods to be talked about. But the main reason they use is "because we said so and because you agreed to it we can have some power to enforce it if it gets out of hand."

From what I was told mods aren't necessarily illegal, its just hacking a system that is. Please tell me where it says we agree not to modify any game?

 

[Lil Puddin]

From what I was told mods aren't necessarily illegal, its just hacking a system that is. Please tell me where it says we agree not to modify any game?

If you read the little thing you have to "agree" to before updating. It says they are not legally liable if your Wii/3DS/whatever konks out if you had modded it in anyway. They can get away with this because ToS = contract. Also, modding is altering copyrighted material without permission so it goes without saying that it is illegal (this mostly applies to software/games).

Just because mods are illegal doesn't mean it'd be a case worth pursuing. That's why fanmade patches and mods can exist freely on the Internet - keyword is free(ly). If someone charged money for mods, then that would give Nintendo an incentive to send a CnD. The Cease and Desist would actually hold power behind it because modding/patching/altering in any way is technically illegal; possibly curbing Nintendo's profits while making their own profit also gives them more leverage. If modding was 100% legal, their CnD would be joke. "Could you please stop doing that? Pretty please with a cherry on top? :<"

 

[Kink-Link5]

If you read the little thing you have to "agree" to before updating. It says they are not legally liable if your Wii/3DS/whatever konks out if you had modded it in anyway. They can get away with this because ToS = contract. Also, modding is altering copyrighted material without permission so it goes without saying that it is illegal (this mostly applies to software/games).

Just because mods are illegal doesn't mean it'd be a case worth pursuing. That's why fanmade patches and mods can exist freely on the Internet - keyword is free(ly). If someone charged money for mods, then that would give Nintendo an incentive to send a CnD. The Cease and Desist would actually hold power behind it because modding/patching/altering in any way is technically illegal; possibly curbing Nintendo's profits while making their own profit also gives them more leverage. If modding was 100% legal, their CnD would be joke. "Could you please stop doing that? Pretty please with a cherry on top? :<"

No where in the ToS statement does it remotely imply modding is illegal.

 

[Lil Puddin]

No where in the ToS statement does it remotely imply modding is illegal.

It doesn't say it's illegal.

"It says they are not legally liable if your Wii/3DS/whatever konks out if you had modded it in anyway."

Then "modding is altering copyrighted material without permission so it goes without saying that it is illegal (this mostly applies to software/games)."

Copyright is attached to all works irregardless.

 

[GaretHax]

It doesn't say it's illegal.

"It says they are not legally liable if your Wii/3DS/whatever konks out if you had modded it in anyway."

Then "modding is altering copyrighted material without permission so it goes without saying that it is illegal (this mostly applies to software/games)."

Copyright is attached to all works irregardless.

Irreguardless isn't a word, copyright laws cannot touch derivative works or modifications made without intended profit. Honda doesn't sue you over your new paint job, Microsoft doesn't go breserk when you dual-boot or make changes to the system's infrastructure, counterstrike and the infinite list of games that started out as mods or encourage modding aren't some abomination against intellectual property. When you buy something you have the right to modify it for your own use, and in some cases may sell it, intellectual property laws simply prevent you from modifying someone else's program and selling it without permission. Pm is not illegal in any way, shape, or form, individual stages should be fine so long as meshes and textures used in the models were made from scratch and not simply re-used, skyloft is technically an artistic interpretation and does not appear in any Nintendo game (in its' current form). Also IIRC Gecko OS is just a name, it doesn't actually replace the WII's OS it simply allows for expanded coding capabilities and for alternative loading, but im not sure on that one, however even if it does that is irrelevant as loading an alternative OS isn't illegal either...

 

[lordvaati]

PM might get a little more unwanted attention from the big N when smash 4 launches... but hopefully not.

I think it got hella plenty when IGN promoted it.

 

[Daftatt]

I think it got hella plenty when IGN promoted it.

same with wired, http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/12/project-m-super-smash-bros-mod/ (oh god it's so bad)

 

[Magnum Dragon]

(my first post yay)
I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of copyright protection and the like, but what I do know is that I acquired my Wii and my copy of Brawl by legal means of exchanging money with a licensed distributor. From that point on, that Wii and copy of Brawl were MINE, which means I should be able to do whatever I want with them as long as I make no monetary gain from doing so. So while Nintendo's allowed to be whiny about us supposedly invading copyright when Project M has done literally nothing but improve Brawl's sales slightly, any cease-and-desists they might send to the PMBR in the future are total nonsense; but unfortunately they'll still probably stand ground because copyright laws have become so vague, since all of them were written before mods (at least of this nature) existed and therefore don't properly apply.

That 3D remake of Chrono Trigger getting shut down was such horse****.

Although, the funny thing is that I got Brawl for my Wii, but just downloaded a PM 3.0 ISO for Dolphin instead cuz I happened to be on the computer at the time. And it looks dope in 1080p.

 

[Mr.Random]

or when you're too competitive because everyone must win and we can not allow games with skill involved.

This post times a million. **** Nintendo and its anti competitive ****. While Sony and Microsoft embrace competitive play Nintendo always sees it as a curse. I know they are trying to sponsor Sm4sh for MLG but they already gave Melee trouble at Evo twice and there are posts where Sakurai says he doesn't like competitive play and thinks we are maniacs. It's pretty disrespectful "We wanna avoid a situation where it becomes a game sort of like other competitive fighting games, where it's only appreciated by a very small, passionate group of sort of maniac players."

 

[Magnum Dragon]

This post times a million. **** Nintendo and its anti competitive ****. While Sony and Microsoft embrace competitive play Nintendo always sees it as a curse. I know they are trying to sponsor Sm4sh for MLG but they already gave Melee trouble at Evo twice and there are posts where Sakurai says he doesn't like competitive play and thinks we are maniacs. It's pretty disrespectful "We wanna avoid a situation where it becomes a game sort of like other competitive fighting games, where it's only appreciated by a very small, passionate group of sort of maniac players."

I think that's pretty much JUST Sakurai, not any other Nintendo employee.

 

[Mr.Random]

I think that's pretty much JUST Sakurai, not any other Nintendo employee.

Over the years it was not only Sakurai it was all of Nintendo. Did you see the documentary. We started from the bottom. NOW they are acknowledging us but it still doesn't make up for the past. We can only hope it gets better from here.

 

[Garquille14]

He said he doesn't want it ONLY appreciated by obsessive comp players. He never said he doesn't want obsessive comp players to like the game. He wants everyone to like it.

 

[Rizner]

I think you may have read a satire (fake) article.