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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Scrimblo Bimblo

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Point being... Don't treat Sheik as an example of breaking the mold when her inclusion comes under very unique extenuating circumstances.
I don't. I have no faith at all in Skull Kid or Midna finally showing up.
I'm just saying, even if there was a policy against Zelda one-offs (and Zelda one-offs only), it would have technically already been broken. In fact, even GanonDORF himself was a one-off when he got in.
I believe Sakurai or whoever decides the roster is just more interested in other characters. But the combo of BotW/TotK is going to be hard to ignore.
 

Geno Boost

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Something I just thought of. The Best ‘em Up Legends.

Out of them which would you guys rather have?

Double Dragon
Kunio-kun
Streets of Rage
Final Fight
Battletoads

My personal choice is probably Double Dragon’s Billy and Jimmy as a Simon/Richter echo bundle but I’ll be real the idea of Axel, Kunio, Rash, or Cody/Guy/Hagard are all VERY good choices.
battletoads seems the most the fun to play as and kunio is also good it will give arc system a rep
 
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fogbadge

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it's only ever zelda one offs that people argue over. no other franchises seems to spark this reaction
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Something I just thought of. The Best ‘em Up Legends.

Out of them which would you guys rather have?

Double Dragon
Kunio-kun
Streets of Rage
Final Fight
Battletoads

My personal choice is probably Double Dragon’s Billy and Jimmy as a Simon/Richter echo bundle but I’ll be real the idea of Axel, Kunio, Rash, or Cody/Guy/Hagard are all VERY good choices.
What's funny is that Streets of Rage is my go-to choice, but my honest preference would be for reps that weren't Axel or Blaze. They're great fighters and being in every game makes them the obvious choices, but I think I'd honestly prefer Skate, Max, or even the new selections like Cherry or Floyd.

As far as LoZ, to me the real critical factor is that there's such interesting moveset potential in characters beyond the Tri Force trio. The Hyrule Warriors games really illustrated what different style of fighters various Zelda figures could be in the right hands and Age of Calamity especially is what really made want that version of Impa to appear in Smash because she was so fun to play as.
 
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Dinoman96

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it's only ever zelda one offs that people argue over. no other franchises seems to spark this reaction
That's really because, as mentioned before, the Zelda series is structured unlike most other Nintendo IPs, being a weird middle ground between having a static cast like Mario or having a revolving door cast like Fire Emblem.

There's effectively only three principle characters, those being the Triforce bearers :ultlink::ultzelda::ultganondorf:, so in theory it makes sense for Smash to just stick to those three (and their variations/alter egos), but the problem is that Zelda is a big and long running series so it feels weird and wrong for many that it hasn't had a newcomer since 2008, or even 2001 if you're discounting clones/semi-clones.
 
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fogbadge

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That's really because, as mentioned before, the Zelda series is structured unlike most other Nintendo IPs, being a weird middle ground between having a static cast like Mario or having a revolving door cast like Fire Emblem.

There's effectively only three principle characters, those being the Triforce bearers :ultlink::ultzelda::ultganondorf:, so in theory it makes sense for Smash to just stick to those three (and their variations/alter egos), but the problem is that Zelda is a big and long running series so it feels weird and wrong for many that it hasn't had a newcomer since 2008, or even 2001 if you're discounting clones/semi-clones.
yes but there are plenty of other characters who reappear outside of those three

and it’s not really that unusual. loads of game franchises have characters we don’t see that often outside the main cast
 
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NintenRob

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Zelda is certainly in a peculiar position. But I wouldn't rule out characters like Skull Kid and Midna just because they haven't happened yet. They have merit in their own right. And uniquely, even in a massive roster shrinkage, I feel like you could cut the Zelda roster in half and you'd still be able to justify a newcomer. Can't say that about some franchises.
 

Gengar84

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What's funny is that Streets of Rage is my go-to choice, but my honest preference would be for reps that weren't Axel or Blaze. They're great fighters and being in every game makes them the obvious choices, but I think I'd honestly prefer Skate, Max, or even the new selections like Cherry or Floyd.

As far as LoZ, to me the real critical factor is that there's such interesting moveset potential in characters beyond the Tri Force trio. The Hyrule Warriors games really illustrated what different style of fighters various Zelda figures could be in the right hands and Age of Calamity especially is what really made want that version of Impa to appear in Smash because she was so fun to play as.
The only Streets of Rage game was SoR4 and I thought it was a lot of fun. After Shredder’s Revenge got me so hyped and reinvigorated my love for TMNT I thought I’d give some other Beat ‘em Ups a chance that I passed over. She’s relatively minor compared to the others in the game but my favorite is Estelle Aguirre. The character I used first who also had a pretty cool design was Floyd Iraia. I don’t think either of them have much a chance compared to Axel or Blaze but they’re my favorites.

1705063673490.jpeg
 
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fogbadge

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Yeah, but even those have their own notable problems. Case in point: Tingle



(Tingle's character designer btw)
smash has reached a point where i'm not convinced there's ever any real argument against a character. that aside i'm not seeing a problem for impa or epona. and being hated, like tingle, isn't really a problem especially since it's died down in recent years. also there is one disticnt difference between jar jar and tingle. where as the vast majority of the fandom hates the films jar jar is in, the vast majority of the fandom loves the games tingle is in regardless
 

RileyXY1

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The hatred for Tingle in America is so massive that TvTropes even named an entire trope after it, that being simply "Americans Hate Tingle".
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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I mean, are we sure that "one-off characters are only allowed if their series has a fully rotating cast with no reoccurring characters between games, or otherwise if they're canonically the alter ego of a character who's part of the non-rotating main cast even though they look and sound completely different" is a criteria that they actually use?
It sounds a little convoluted.

I believe it's much easier to think Zelda characters were not a priority after Melee.
 

Dinoman96

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Yeah, the last time Tingle even appeared in a non-spinoff Zelda game was like, The Minish Cap back in 2004. Counting purely only the big console games, Wind Waker was his last hurrah in 2002. Kinda obvious Nintendo got the memo that westerners didn't like him lol
 

Gengar84

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Does anyone here remember Imakuni from the Gameboy Pokemon TCG game? I believe he predated Tingle and the two always really reminded me of each other. I wonder what the reception for that character was (or if the game sold well enough for enough people to have a strong opinion on him one way or the other).
 

fogbadge

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I mean, are we sure that "one-off characters are only allowed if their series has a fully rotating cast with no reoccurring characters between games, or otherwise if they're canonically the alter ego of a character who's part of the non-rotating main cast even though they look and sound completely different" is a criteria that they actually use?
It sounds a little convoluted.

I believe it's much easier to think Zelda characters were not a priority after Melee.
yeah that’s a much more likely explanation. but I think we’re mostly talking about the worthiness of another fighter

Yeah, the last time Tingle even appeared in a non-spinoff Zelda game was like, The Minish Cap back in 2004. Counting purely only the big console games, Wind Waker was his last hurrah in 2002. Kinda obvious Nintendo got the memo that westerners didn't like him lol
I don’t really think it’s fair to call WW his last hurrah as that was before he got several games to himself
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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yeah that’s a much more likely explanation. but I think we’re mostly talking about the worthiness of another fighter
Eh, that's subjective. Personally, they could add Skull Kid, Midna, Rauru, Tingle, Impa, Ghirahim, Darunia, Dampe and the guy who runs through Hyrule Field and I wouldn't bat an eye. But everyone has their own characters they want to see
 

fogbadge

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Eh, that's subjective. Personally, they could add Skull Kid, Midna, Rauru, Tingle, Impa, Ghirahim, Darunia, Dampe and the guy who runs through Hyrule Field and I wouldn't bat an eye. But everyone has their own characters they want to see
well that’s what smash speculation is. all of us debating who we think is more likely/worthy
 

Gengar84

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well that’s what smash speculation is. all of us debating who we think is more likely/worthy
I don’t do that as much. I prefer to talk about the characters I think would be fun to see regardless of how “worthy” they are. I do once in a while share a few thoughts about who I think might be likely but I try to never put down other characters or people who think differently from me (which seems to be almost everyone lol).

On the subject of Zelda, I’m of the opinion that characters like Skull Kid and Midna are among the most recognizable Nintendo characters not yet playable in Smash. If it were up to me, I’d prioritize general popularity and recognizability over any kind of self imposed limitation that a character has to have had multiple appearances. Sometimes a character can leave a lasting impact with just one game. Technically most of the popular choices aren’t one-offs anymore anyways thanks to Hyrule Warriors.
 
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fogbadge

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I don’t do that as much. I prefer to talk about the characters I think would be fun to see regardless of how “worthy” they are. I do once in a while share a few thoughts about who I think might be likely but I try to never put down other characters or people who think differently from me (which seems to be almost everyone lol).

On the subject of Zelda, I’m of the opinion that characters like Skull Kid and Midna are among the most recognizable Nintendo characters not yet playable in Smash. If it were up to me, I’d prioritize general popularity and recognizability over any kind of self imposed limitation that a character has to have had multiple appearances. Sometimes a character can leave a lasting impact with just one game.
well that’s still kinda what I meant, worthiness is usually down to who people like

yeah people keep coming up with these odd reasons to leave characters out
 

Gengar84

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Honestly while we’re on the Topic Reoccurring of Non-Triforce Zelda Characters, why not add one of the Bosses that tend to show up often. Or an enemy. I think a Gohma or a Moblin would be sick personally.
I can’t argue with that. Piranha Plant showed us that Smash can add monsters without them necessarily having to be characters. A lot of the monsters have some of the most unique designs and would be really interesting to play in Smash. I’ll gladly take more bosses or basic enemies if they can be translated into characters that are fun to play.
 

fogbadge

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Honestly while we’re on the Topic Reoccurring of Non-Triforce Zelda Characters, why not add one of the Bosses that tend to show up often. Or an enemy. I think a Gohma or a Moblin would be sick personally.
yes there is definitely some potential there. although with gohma the question is which version? spider, crab, err lava worm. spider probably as it’s the most recognisable

personally I think dodongo would be pretty cool
 

Will

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Idk why it seems everyone has a sudden hate boner for Tingle, thinly guised under “well other people don’t like him!”, but I like him. I’d main him in a heartbeat, just like Hyrule Warriors. I sure as hell didn’t ask for him, but I’m a sucker for comic relief

Kinda obvious Nintendo got the memo that westerners didn't like him lol
1705070093198.jpeg


They clearly didn’t. They’re going one step ahead— you will become Tingle.
 
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Dinoman96

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Idk why it seems everyone has a sudden hate boner for Tingle, thinly guised under “well other people don’t like him!”, but I like him. I’d main him in a heartbeat, just like Hyrule Warriors. I sure as hell didn’t ask for him, but I’m a sucker for comic relief


View attachment 382890

They clearly didn’t. They’re going one step ahead— you will become Tingle.
Here's a funny little story about that Tingle outfit...

 

Sucumbio

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Honestly while we’re on the Topic Reoccurring of Non-Triforce Zelda Characters, why not add one of the Bosses that tend to show up often. Or an enemy. I think a Gohma or a Moblin would be sick personally.
The Darknut. OMG nightmare fuel! Walk in, door closes, you just got a through a room full of wizzrobes and like likes which cost you your magic shield and now you're trapped in a room of 8 heavy armor tanks with corner pillars shooting at you and you can't block and ... Ahhhh! Yeah definitely vote for a Darknut. Also just one of the coolest Zelda enemies to evolve over the years. I think my favorite was WW just a really satisfying matchup.
 

Will

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Here's a funny little story about that Tingle outfit...

I'm sure there are people out there who "hate" Tingle. However, if you hate him, that means you must "care" about him a little bit! And THAT means your feelings toward him might change, in time. Which is why we developed a game featuring him as the main character!

Tingle's not your typical Nintendo character, and if we wanted to create a game with him as the main character, then we were going to make him do and say things typical Nintendo characters would never do! That's the goal we set for ourselves, and it was...very...challenging. But one thing is clear: Tingle made his mark on the world of Hyrule, and now Link is dressing up as Tingle! I'm so proud!
I never knew Tingle was such an emotionally moving piece of human garbage. :popcorn:
 

Louie G.

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The thing with Kirby is that regardless of preference, nearly everyone acknowledges that Bandana Dee is the obvious choice. RTDL maps out a clear main quartet, which has stood strong ever since as Bandana Dee has only gotten more prominent. Even with more interesting options available, neglecting BWD would feel pretty arbitrary now. With Zelda, the next candidates are so far underneath the main three that the line becomes blurry. Kirby makes it easy for us, and the demand is majorly centralized behind one character.

As a Marx fan myself I’ve seen plenty of people rag on him for not being important though (which isn’t especially true - he’s the blueprint for many final bosses to follow), so those tensions still exist to some degree. I’m honestly just happy he has a role in Smash at all.
 
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