Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

I kinda like how Monster Hunter is repped in smash right now, being a third party franchise with decent representation but no actual fighter to call it's own. I just wish it had a proper stage in Multiplayer.

IDK i just think it's neat that they did it this way.

 

[Ivander]

My bet is that Monster Hunter is the next franchise to be included, which I can't help but feel a little disappointed in. I've never been able to get into the franchise I just can't. It might just be like Animal Crossing for me, except I really love Animal Crossing's characters.

I mean, for one, I can understand not getting into it since it's a very boss battle focused game, something that I can understand not everybody is going to easily get into, and two, Monster Hunter was mainly a Monster focused game, so it makes sense the focus is mainly on the monsters than the characters. While it did have characters with distinct personalities and they worked for the simplistic story each game had, almost none of them had names and were mainly called Titles like "Moga/Pokke/Kokoto/etc Chief", "Guild Sweetheart", "The Caravaneer", etc. It took until Monster Hunter World(Somewhat) and Monster Hunter Rise to actually start giving characters names.

That said, Monster Hunter is definitely on my top list because besides the cool monsters that can appear as cameos and Monster Hunter having a ton of potential for moveset with 14 different weapon types and a ton of items and gear for utility, the other two reasons are the music, easily some of Capcom's best soundtracks, and the big thing I'm pretty sure alot of other fans are hoping for, the possibility of each costume being a different Armor Set. And also hoping for a Felyne/Palico Assist Trophy.

And also wishful hoping, I'd be all for a Hunting Horn item(not the Hunting Horn weapon) that acts like a Pokeball for Monster Hunter that calls a random Monster to the arena to start wrecking players(including the one who summoned them, since the whole point of the Hunting Horn item is to lure a Monster to the player for them to fight) and the stage.

 

[Louie G.]

I kinda like how Monster Hunter is repped in smash right now, being a third party franchise with decent representation but no actual fighter to call it's own. I just wish it had a proper stage in Multiplayer.

IDK i just think it's neat that they did it this way.

I think we need more series like this, although I think Monster Hunter has plenty of room to grow. Agreed with you that it should get a full fledged stage with cameo monsters traversing and flying in the background, I think that would be visually stunning. I find it almost a little odd that they just kinda left it at Rathalos in Ultimate.

Animal Crossing's representation in Brawl was really great for the time, culminating in a full character once Sakurai got the inspiration. Same thing could definitely happen here, but I do think it's important to acknowledge that a series can be sufficiently honored without a spot on the roster. Like, I've been begging for anything from Rhythm Heaven for about a decade now and I'd be overjoyed at the simple prospect of a stage and a more fleshed out tracklist. Would like to see more Assist Trophies similar to Bomberman as well.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean, for one, I can understand not getting into it since it's a very boss battle focused game, something that I can understand not everybody is going to easily get into, and two, Monster Hunter was mainly a Monster focused game, so it makes sense the focus is mainly on the monsters than the characters. While it did have characters with distinct personalities and they worked for the simplistic story each game had, almost none of them had names and were mainly called Titles like "Moga/Pokke/Kokoto/etc Chief", "Guild Sweetheart", "The Caravaneer", etc. It took until Monster Hunter World(Somewhat) and Monster Hunter Rise to actually start giving characters names.

That said, Monster Hunter is definitely on my top list because besides the cool monsters that can appear as cameos and Monster Hunter having a ton of potential for moveset with 14 different weapon types and a ton of items and gear for utility, the other two reasons are the music, easily some of Capcom's best soundtracks, and the big thing I'm pretty sure alot of other fans are hoping for, the possibility of each costume being a different Armor Set. And also hoping for a Felyne/Palico Assist Trophy.

And also wishful hoping, I'd be all for a Hunting Horn item(not the Hunting Horn weapon) that acts like a Pokeball for Monster Hunter that calls a random Monster to the arena to start wrecking players(including the one who summoned them, since the whole point of the Hunting Horn item is to lure a Monster to the player for them to fight) and the stage.

I love boss battle games. I just have some more personal issues regarding the social aspects.

I've been left behind too many times.

 

[Arcanir]

MH only really has Rathalos hard carrying it to be honest. The boss is great, don't get me wrong (the little nods like the traps do show an attention to detail), but the way it's touted at times it feels like some see him as all the series has to offer and that's a shame considering the franchise does offer things like great locales for a stage, a large library of music to touch, and monsters and items that could be brought over for cameos, spirits, or the like, and that's not even touching a potential character.

 

[Ivander]

MH only really has Rathalos hard carrying it to be honest. The boss is great, don't get me wrong (the little nods like the traps do show an attention to detail), but the way it's touted at times it feels like some see him as all the series has to offer and that's a shame considering the franchise does offer things like great locales for a stage, a large library of music to touch, and monsters and items that could be brought over for cameos, spirits, or the like, and that's not even touching a potential character.

"The perfect Boss Battle for Little Mac doesn't exi---"

 

[DarthEnderX]

I kinda like how Monster Hunter is repped in smash right now, being a third party franchise with decent representation but no actual fighter to call it's own.

The representation it has is fitting. The real stars of that series are the monsters. So having Rathalos as a Boss makes sense. And since the PCs are all create-a-characters, having a Mii Costume instead of a Fighter also makes sense.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Honestly Monster Hunter should have an actual monster as an playable rep.

We don't get a lot of creature like characters other than Piranha Plant, Duck Hunt or a few Pokemon(Where some are already humanoid).

Also would better representation of a series

 

[Diddy Kong]

Monster Hunter is in a similar position as Animal Crossing was in Brawl. Villager followed eventually. I have a strong gut feeling same will happen with Monster Hunter.v

 

[Mamboo07]

We don't get a lot of creature like characters other than Piranha Plant, Duck Hunt or a few Pokemon(Where some are already humanoid).

True.

I love fighters that are STRAIGHT UP animals/creatures/monsters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If MH got a Fighter, I'd rather it be a Felyn rather than one of the Human hunters.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Yeah, with all due respect, the likes of Layton, Rayman, Phoenix Wright, Lloyd, etc definitely feel like relics from an era where we thought the only third parties that had a shot were Nintendo adjacent ones, with Snake being the only exception due to the Kojima thing, who got cut anyways.

Less we forget:

Rayman, Lloyd and Phoenix are still very much in smash discussions and saying that they're relics or implying they fell off for the upteenth time won't magically make it true lol

 

[RileyXY1]

If MH got a Fighter, I'd rather it be a Felyn rather than one of the Human hunters.

Pretty much. The main focus in MH is on the monsters, not the hunter. The Monster Hunter's only crossover appearance was in the incredibly maligned Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite.

Monster Hunter is in a similar position as Animal Crossing was in Brawl. Villager followed eventually. I have a strong gut feeling same will happen with Monster Hunter.v

Although AC in Brawl had far more content than MH in Ultimate. In Brawl Animal Crossing had its own stage, its own category in the Sound Test menu, and its own trophy category (it's the only series to have the latter two without a fighter). All MH had in Ultimate was a single boss (who doubled as an AT), two songs that were placed in the Misc. section, and a few Spirits and Mii Costumes that were added post launch. It's also worth noting that Animal Crossing was planned to have a fighter in Brawl, but that idea got scrapped because apparently it was too low stakes to have a character in the game (well that aged like milk) and there is no indication that MH was ever planned to have a fighter in Ultimate.

 

[Pupp135]

I have no idea who Corobo is.

He’s the protagonist of a somewhat obscure strategy game called Little King’s Story, where you build a kingdom by defeating corrupt rulers, and there is a princess that you rescue from each kingdom. Additionally, you have soldiers who follow you (Corobo), and you give them tasks to perform. It’s kind of like the Pikmin series.

 

[Garteam]

I like the idea of Monster Hunter abstractly due to the moveset potential of a hunter and the franchise's legacy, but I will admit that it is the Capcom choice that has the least personality in my opinion. This is a subjective judgment, but it's a lot easier to imagine how to convey who that character is through basically any of Capcom's other choices. Even introverted and melancholic characters like Leon Kennedy or X "flow" better in my mind's eye despite also not being showy due to having well-established personalities.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't think Monster Hunter is a lock or anything, I think to some degree the other Capcom characters being stronger identities is a point in their favor. But I also don't believe "the series is about the monsters not the hunter" is really a fair thing to say about a series whose name quite simply lays out the two key elements of the series. Monster, and Hunter. They work in tandem to give the game its identity and its core dynamic.

I've heard the "main focus" argument before, I actually used it against Steve way back when to say that Minecraft really isn't about the player character at all. Instead it's about the world and how you interact with it, making a Minecraft stage and items a more suitable representation of the series. This was a fairly popular opinion at the time and while I prefer characters with more established identities when applicable (I'm a bit exhausted by avatar characters, even though the ones we have are pretty distinct) this is clearly not a very big concern of Sakurai or Nintendo's. It would be silly of me to be proven wrong here and then project the same exact argument toward a different character. If anything, Monster Hunter is way more significant in their game than Steve.

The idea of representing a game's essence through a character is evidently more important to Smash. That's what makes someone like Villager or Steve pop, because they may not have much going on themselves but the unique identity of their series is able to shine through the character. Monster Hunter is less stylized than these two, but I think the ways this can be done are pretty clear cut. What defines Monster Hunter? The big ass weapons, the way it forces you to commit. This would be a character whose attacks are deliberate but rewarding. I also think there's a lot of potential in playing up the actual "hunter" angle, giving them traps and coercing the opponent into taking the bait. That last bit is the idea that excites me the most.

They're not personally my favorite choice from Capcom, and I would be satisfied if they just got a beautiful new stage, but that's not particularly my call to make. Because Sakurai's opinion on these kind of characters seems more favorable, and fan-wise nobody likes being told their series is "better suited" for this or that. A compelling and fun character can be made out of anything, Monster Hunter is far from an exception. I understand that there are concerns over whether or not Capcom would allow a Hunter to be playable at all, but Sakurai is quite convincing. If he wants this, I'm sure he'll have a pitch to throw their way and try to change their mind. It's fair to observe precedent but I also think Smash is a unique opportunity.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

They're not personally my favorite choice from Capcom, and I would be satisfied if they just got a beautiful new stage, but that's not particularly my call to make. Because Sakurai's opinion on these kind of characters seems more favorable, and fan-wise nobody likes being told their series is "better suited" for this or that. A compelling and fun character can be made out of anything, Monster Hunter is far from an exception. I understand that there are concerns over whether or not Capcom would allow a Hunter to be playable at all, but Sakurai is quite convincing. If he wants this, I'm sure he'll have a very compelling pitch to throw their way and try to change their mind. It's fair to observe precedent but I also think Smash is a unique opportunity.

If anything I feel that if Sakurai can't secure a playable Hunter, he will probably have a plan B in mind like a Felyne. I remember Sakurai said in an interview that when he pitched the playable Hero to Square, he also had in mind Slime in case Square wasn't open to Hero because he knew getting Hero right would be hard.

 

[Gorgonzales]

do you think the whole "Byleth's kit was originally meant for Monster Hunter before things just didn't work out with the character" theory holds any weight? I don't fully buy it, but it is interesting to think about

 

[JOJONumber691]

Tbh I could see either Dante or Monster Hunter getting into Base Game. Depends on a mix of the MH Devs among other factors. If not base game then Dante ain’t getting in next time, but Sakurai knows so we’ll see what happens.

 

[fogbadge]

do you think the whole "Byleth's kit was originally meant for Monster Hunter before things just didn't work out with the character" theory holds any weight? I don't fully buy it, but it is interesting to think about

no

 

[Schnee117]

I love it when people who don't even play a series confidently say what the main focus of said series is whilst making it clear they don't actually know anything about the series beyond what's in Smash.

do you think the whole "Byleth's kit was originally meant for Monster Hunter before things just didn't work out with the character" theory holds any weight? I don't fully buy it, but it is interesting to think about

It holds absolutely no weight at all.

 

[Ivander]

do you think the whole "Byleth's kit was originally meant for Monster Hunter before things just didn't work out with the character" theory holds any weight? I don't fully buy it, but it is interesting to think about

No. Because most of Byleth's kit doesn't even fit Monster Hunter. If Byleth's kit was even remotely close to how Monster Hunter would work:

• Aymr would allow you to either attack right away with a weaker attack or allow you to hold the charge until it forces you to attack, but the strongest damage would be from releasing before it forces you to attack.
• Failnaught's fully-charged shot would fire 3 arrows going vertically and once again, allow you to hold the charge while allowing yourself to move and adjust yourself before firing.
• Areadbhar would be a gung-ho charge attack with no vertical range that lets your character keep running until you choose to stop.
• No Chain Sword whatsoever.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I want to play Monster Hunter, but i feel that's the kind of game that requires friends who are also into it to fully enjoy the game.

 

[cashregister9]

At this point for Monster Hunter I am on team Playable monster, not because of any sorta game essence or anything like that.

No just because playing as a ****ing Nargacuga or something would be rad and also kinda funny

I am also a big supporter of a Monster Hunter Stories rep.

 

[Ivander]

I want to play Monster Hunter, but i feel that's the kind of game that requires friends who are also into it to fully enjoy the game.

You can actually solo just about all of the game, including the Online content. I think there's only 2 monsters in Monster Hunter World that requires having a team because of the "Group Raid" theme with them, but otherwise, you can just about solo all of the content.

 

[Kirbeh]

As far as Monster Hunter goes, I'd be fine with either a main game hunter, a Felyne or a character from Stories.

Though my experience with the series basically begins and ends with World as I'm only now playing through it with some friends who got the itch to replay it. From my understanding though, Rise has more actual named characters? For anyone more familiar with the series, are there any particular characters that are seen as stand outs/beloved enough to maybe be taken into consideration?

Going back to the avatar hunters though, I do have a hang-up on their inclusion having actually played one of the games now. I actually want 2 Hunters, not just one. Completely unrealistic I know, but there are so many moveset possibilities and cool armors I'd want to see a good chunk of them get repped.

A male and female hunter so each can get a full set of costumes with multiple armors and then each gets their own weapon(s) to craft a sort of composite moveset. Kind of like how the Hunter in MvCI was handled but split between two characters to get more coverage.

One could get the bow, the other the bow gun. One would have a great sword as their primary weapon, the other could have dual blades. Then a few more weapons could be split between the two for other specials like the hammer, horn, gunlance, etc.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I want to play Monster Hunter, but i feel that's the kind of game that requires friends who are also into it to fully enjoy the game.

I played Rise solo and I think it was very fun. If anything you can also play with random, but I found that it was sometimes frustrating when you're paired with someone who keep on dying which would make you lose the whole quest.

Though my experience with the series basically begins and ends with World as I'm only now playing through it with some friends who got the itch to replay it. From my understanding though, Rise has more actual named characters? For anyone more familiar with the series, are there any particular characters that are seen as stand outs/beloved enough to maybe be taken into consideration?

I wouldn't seriously considered any npc from Rise tbh. Most of them don't even fight and are just quest giver, merchants or blacksmith. Sunbreak did introduce new characters that can actually fight with you in specific quest like Fiorayne and Sir Jae, but I don't see the point in going for a character like that when the generic avatar Hunter can do literally the same thing and wield more different weapons than those npc and they contribute pretty much nothing to the "story" either way so they're just really forgettable.

 

[Ivander]

they contribute pretty much nothing to the "story" either way so they're just really forgettable.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case in Rise, as I think the twins, Hinoa and Minoka, or at least one of them, got connected/controlled/etc to the main monsters behind the whole Rampage deal.

Also the internet won't let people forget about Hinoa and Minoka either.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

So when do they announce the first spirit event this month and what will the 4 new events be?

 

[Arcanir]

I wouldn't seriously considered any npc from Rise tbh. Most of them don't even fight and are just quest giver, merchants or blacksmith. Sunbreak did introduce new characters that can actually fight with you in specific quest like Fiorayne and Sir Jae, but I don't see the point in going for a character like that when the generic avatar Hunter can do literally the same thing and wield more different weapons than those npc and they contribute pretty much nothing to the "story" either way so they're just really forgettable.

I don't think we'll get an NPC from Rise either, but I would give them a bit more credit here. With the Follower system the named NPCs can fight and get involved in quests outside of their story ones, and most (if not all) have at least two weapons they can use. Even before it was introduced, the Rampage system also allowed some of them like Fugen to come in temporarily to help out and stop monsters from making it past a certain point in the area. They also do have varying story involvements, Fiorayne legitimately felt like she was second to the Hunter in terms of importance to Sunbreak (and even got a very popular moment against its final boss) and while the others are not to that level some of them do have their moments that connect them to the plot such as the aforementioned Hinoa/Minoka who 'sync' with the final bosses temporarily.

There's definitely more to work with there, not enough that I would say they'd be chosen over a Hunter or Felyne, but I wouldn't say they're forgettable.

 

[Garteam]

Tbh I could see either Dante or Monster Hunter getting into Base Game. Depends on a mix of the MH Devs among other factors. If not base game then Dante ain’t getting in next time, but Sakurai knows so we’ll see what happens.

I really hope that, if Dante gets in, he's DLC. It would be a waste of his potential to have to stick to the limits of a traditional moveset due to being a base game character. Ideally, Dante should feel like Bayonetta and Kazuya's love child in terms of gameplay. Marvel definitely had the right idea with giving him a boatload of command normals and specials, even if it did result in him being a bit busted in Infinite not that people noticed due to his face.

One mechanic that could pair well with giving Dante an expansive moveset while addressing the inherent advantage of having so many options relative to the rest of the cast is Stylish Ranks. Using a wide variety of moves and landing high-risk high-reward options like meteor smashes would increase the rank, while utilizing the same handful of moves and playing safe decreases the rank. Higher ranks increase Dante's damage output and decrease his knockback and vice versa for lower ranks. This would come at the cost of giving Dante a step learning curve, but it would Sakurai to stuff as much as he can into Dante's moveset and it would be in spirit with the franchise. This is DMC, flashiness is the name of the game and being hype should be rewarded.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Dante definitely deserves to be the most broken character in the game.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as aspects to Dante, it shouldn't happen often (and you'd probably have to speed up the delivery), but I kind of want his star KO quote to occasionally be "I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with light!"

 

[fogbadge]

We already have one gun toting psychopath on the roster let’s not bother with another

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We already have one gun toting psychopath on the roster let’s not bother with another

You really don't know Dante if you're calling him a psychopath. He cares about others.

And Bayonetta and Joker aren't psychopaths either.

 

[Delzethin]

Honestly, as a competitive player, I think actively wanting a character to be a game breaker is irresponsible. I've been around the Smash community in one form or another since Brawl. I've seen what happens when the metagame overcentalizes around one or two characters. Nothing good ever comes from it.

-

Related, how about a thought experiment: What would your most wanted newcomers' weak points be? They can't just be "low weight" or "difficult to use"; those alone usually aren't enough in high level play and I want to see more creative answers.

For example, my concept for Geno has his moveset built around Action Commands. This not only fits the character and his source material, it has a side effect of giving his moves surprisingly high end lag. This makes them prone to getting whiff punished, and makes him vulnerable as a whole to bait-and-punish tactics.

 

[osby]

You really don't know Dante if you're calling him a psychopath. He cares about others.

And Bayonetta and Joker aren't psychopaths either.

I'm pretty sure they meant them:

Look at the sheer, unbridled insanity behind her eyes.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Weaknesses for my most wanted characters, let's see...

Bomberman: this one's easy, his own explosions can damage and even KO him.
Doom Slayer: if he gets a Glory Kill mechanic where he grabs you and you explode right then and there past a certain %, he could have very low knockback on most other attacks and not be able to reliably kill you until 150+ %, so he'd have to fish for Glory Kills to end most stocks. I guess more agile characters would have a decent chance at surviving for a long time.
Dixie Kong: I honestly don't know? She's a pretty well-rounded character usually. I guess you could make her vertical air speed a bit lacking in exchange for supreme horizontal mobility. As a B&K main, I know not having much you can do when your opponent is above you sucks. Plus she'd be light and not as speedy as Diddy, although she'd have big ponytail disjoints to make up for it.
Dark Souls guy: this one is also obvious, atrocious frame data and the shortest combo they can use against you lasts 15 minutes. Just like in Dark Souls

 

[fogbadge]

You really don't know Dante if you're calling him a psychopath. He cares about others.

And Bayonetta and Joker aren't psychopaths either.

what’s wrong with joker?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

what’s wrong with joker?

Nothing, but I wasn't sure which gun toting hero you were calling a psychopath so I covered my bets and addressed both of them.