Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ZephyrZ]

Alright Pokemon experts why is Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres together in a single legendary spirit? Inquiring minds want to know!

Because Pokemon already got a ton of spirits and combining the birds into one probably gave them more time to make two extra spirits.

 

[Will]

The next Pokemon boss fight should be against Giratina in the Distortion World, imo.

A great substitute is upgrading Kyurem from item to boss in the Giant Chasm if we get to Gen V remakes before the next Smash

 

[Laniv]

Any Ultra Beast, if you're not going to make them playable, would make a perfect Pokémon boss.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The Pokemon talk has brought up something I've been thinking about.

I really want another Legendary Pokemon playable. Mewtwo is great, but I want another one.

 

[RouffWestie]

Quoting from a new thread I just started, what bosses do you want in Smash?

Dr. Wily and Mother Brain were strange omissions seeing as Rathalos doubled as an AT and boss but those two for w/e reason didn't. Other than those two, the bosses I'd most want to see are

• Akuma
• Any of the Touhous
• Wizpig, but his stage is a race to the finish, and you win by either staying on him and attacking enough to KO him like a normal boss, or beating him to the end
• Chaos (Form 1, then Form 6 at ½ HP)
• Sigma
• Galacta Knight
• Millennium Star
• Cynthia CBT fight with Garchomp as the boss, Lucario as an ally, Roserade/Spiritomb/Milotic/Gastrodon periodically swap out in the background one at a time turning the arena poisonous, dark, frozen, or muddy respectively, and when Garchomp reaches 1⁄4 HP, Cynthia will give him a Full Restore

 

[Will]

I really want another Legendary Pokemon playable. Mewtwo is great, but I want another one.

I think having two Mewtwos is a little excessive, but if you really think he’s that great, here’s another one just like you asked.

 

[Opossum]

The Pokemon talk has brought up something I've been thinking about.

I really want another Legendary Pokemon playable. Mewtwo is great, but I want another one.

Look I'm just saying, Ogerpon managed to become one of the single most popular Pokémon of the entire generation overnight. I'm a ride or die Gholdengo supporter when it comes to Gen IX Pokémon, but Ogerpon made her mark in a way few legendaries have, imo.

 

[Noipoi]

Koraidon would be rad, but it’s a version exclusive and they wouldn’t want the purple men to feel left out

 

[fogbadge]

The Pokemon talk has brought up something I've been thinking about.

I really want another Legendary Pokemon playable. Mewtwo is great, but I want another one.

would you settle for a mythical?

 

[Opossum]

Koraidon would be rad, but it’s a version exclusive and they wouldn’t want the purple men to feel left out

Yeah, this is the biggest thing holding Koraidon and Miraidon back, in my eyes. Both of them are REALLY popular, especially from the characterization they get in the story, but I can't see them picking one over the other, and they're different enough where they can't even be semi-clones, so they're kind of out of luck and will probably just be Poké Ball and Master Ball summons.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Folks need to stop suggesting normal size characters as bosses.

If you're going to all the trouble to program an entire moveset for someone like Akuma or Galacta Knight...why wouldn't you just make them a Fighter?

The whole point of Bosses is to be character that are too large, to grand, to be a normal playable fighter.

 

[Opossum]

Folks need to stop suggesting normal size characters as bosses.

If you're going to all the trouble to program an entire moveset for someone like Akuma, Galacta Knight or Ogerpon...why wouldn't you just make them a Fighter?

The whole point of Bosses is to be character that are too large, to grand, to be a normal playable fighter.

Ogerpon was literally brought up as a fighter.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ogerpon was literally brought up as a fighter.

Sorry, thought it was being suggested as a Boss. Fixed.

 

[Opossum]

Sorry, thought it was being suggested as a Boss. Fixed.

It's all good! In general I do agree with the sentiment.

The one case where I think a "human" sized boss could work is like, a very specific circumstance. Like if they went with Grima. In that instance, most of the fight would be against a suped up and possessed Robin, while the stage itself is Grima, and the dragon's head would be attacking as well. Basically just like the end of Awakening.

So it's a "character sized" boss...except not really, since that's only like one half of the boss. Bonus points for being able to reuse Robin's model.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Look I'm just saying, Ogerpon managed to become one of the single most popular Pokémon of the entire generation overnight. I'm a ride or die Gholdengo supporter when it comes to Gen IX Pokémon, but Ogerpon made her mark in a way few legendaries have, imo.
View attachment 380992

Her? Her?? What do you mean "it's not canonically genderless"?!

 

[Will]

Folks need to stop suggesting normal size characters as bosses.

If you're going to all the trouble to program an entire moveset for someone like Akuma or Galacta Knight...why wouldn't you just make them a Fighter?

The whole point of Bosses is to be character that are too large, to grand, to be a normal playable fighter.

The only time a fighter sized boss was used AFAIK is Metal Mario and that one copycat portion of Master Core from SSB4. I agree 100%, but you can still incorporate them in phases of boss fights.

Metal Face from Xenoblade is just a dude in a mech suit. I always would’ve liked a boss fight against him where he exits the suit for a phase and fights you as Mumkhar.

 

[Zerp]

Alright Pokemon experts why is Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres together in a single legendary spirit? Inquiring minds want to know!

They didn't want to embarrass Articuno by giving it the one star rating it clearly deserves. So, they forced poor Zapdos and Moltres to carry the family reputation for the five quadrillionth time to avoid exposing Articuno as the gargantuan fraud it is. Absolutely shameless move on TPC's part /s

I have no idea lol

 

[DarthEnderX]

The only time a fighter sized boss was used AFAIK is Metal Mario and that one copycat portion of Master Core from SSB4. I agree 100%, but you can still incorporate them in phases of boss fights.

Oh for sure. You can have the fight start with fighting regular Sephiroth. Then he turns into Safer Sephiroth for phase 2(or I guess vice-versa if you want to be accurate to FF7). Or Ganondorf into Demon King Ganon.

But the point is one phase should be the Boss form. And it should be something that wouldn't work as a Fighter.

Someone like Akuma doesn't have a big unplayable form. He has some transformations, but they're still human-sized.

 

[Noipoi]

Her? Her?? What do you mean "it's not canonically genderless"?!

Ogerpon has a 100% female gender rate

 

[Will]

Oh for sure. You can have the fight start with fighting regular Sephiroth. Then he turns into Safer Sephiroth for phase 2(or I guess vice-versa if you want to be accurate to FF7). Or Ganondorf into Demon King Ganon.

But the point is one phase should be the Boss form. And it should be something that wouldn't work as a Fighter.

Someone like Akuma doesn't have a big unplayable form. He has some transformations, but they're still human-sized.

You could definitely give Oni an inverse Ridley treatment and jack up his size. But I’m biased because a Street Fighter boss just sounds cool to have in the game. Whether it’s him, Bison, Gill, Seth, etc.

 

[Ivander]

would you settle for a mythical?

I mean, Mythicals aren't really that different from Legendaries aside from mostly being gotten from Events, cause otherwise, they practically function the same as Legendary and even Sub-Legendary Pokemon. And there were some Mythicals that had a good-sized fanbase and were certainly wanted as fighters, like Deoxys, Darkrai, Genesect, Marshadow and Zeraora.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean, Mythicals aren't really that different from Legendaries aside from mostly being gotten from Events, cause otherwise, they practically function the same as Legendary and even Sub-Legendary Pokemon. And there were some Mythicals that had a good-sized fanbase and were certainly wanted as fighters, like Deoxys, Darkrai, Genesect, Marshadow and Zeraora.

they still make the distinction

 

[Will]

they still make the distinction

would you settle for an ultra beast? they also make a distinction. you know you want buzzswole deep down

 

[fogbadge]

would you settle for an ultra beast? they also make a distinction. you know you want buzzswole deep down

no it’s xuritree

 

[Ivander]

would you settle for an ultra beast? they also make a distinction. you know you want buzzswole deep down

If I can't get an Ultra Beast, I'd settle for Ultra Space as a stage with many of the Ultra Beasts in the background. Still sad we didn't get a Gen 7 stage. Ultra Space would be perfect for a unique Pokemon stage.

 

[Kirbeh]

You could definitely give Oni an inverse Ridley treatment and jack up his size. But I’m biased because a Street Fighter boss just sounds cool to have in the game. Whether it’s him, Bison, Gill, Seth, etc.

Honestly you don't even need to increase his size, playable Akuma with incredibly broken Shin and Oni versions as bosses seems perfectly fine even if they are "fighter" sized.

As for the original topic of bosses in general.

Shin Akuma/Oni and powered up Bison for Street Fighter.

Nightmare, Void Termina, Fecto Elfilis (Kirby)
Mother Brain, Queen or Omega Metroid, EMMI
Emperor Bulblax, Titan Devil, Plasm Wraith (Pikmin)
King Frost, Reaper (SMT/Persona)
Ruby/Emerald Weapons, Safer Sephiroth (FF7)
Rugal (SNK), Culex (FF/SMRPG), Rudy or the Shake King (Wario), Air Man (Mega Man)

 

[fogbadge]

If I can't get an Ultra Beast, I'd settle for Ultra Space as a stage with many of the Ultra Beasts in the background. Still sad we didn't get a Gen 7 stage. Ultra Space would be perfect for a unique Pokemon stage.

i know right

 

[Will]

Honestly you don't even need to increase his size, playable Akuma with incredibly broken Shin and Oni versions as bosses seems perfectly fine even if they are "fighter" sized.

I’d want him Dracula-sized. I know it’s based off him being so damn tall in RoB/SoTN, but I think he sets a good precedent for a humanoid boss like Oni or whomever.

I feel like making them any smaller would increase the difficulty. It’d be almost as hard as taking down one of the more complicated ATs.

Take Guile for example. Try to beat him when he’s out on the field as an Assist Trophy… without items. Seriously, it can be hard to KO him without you taking a lot of damage, and that dude only has two moves. His mobility is also ridiculous. He jumps higher than some characters can recover. I bet he could camp a CPU Ganondorf for days. Having that as a boss-exclusive character like that, especially with many more moves than Guile’s 2, sounds like hell to fight against.

Or maybe I’m just gatekeeping bosses idk

 

[Kirbeh]

I’d want him Dracula-sized. I know it’s based off him being so damn tall in RoB/SoTN, but I think he sets a good precedent for a humanoid boss like Oni or whomever.

I feel like making them any smaller would increase the difficulty. It’d be almost as hard as taking down one of the more complicated ATs.

Take Guile for example. Try to beat him when he’s out on the field as an Assist Trophy… without items. Seriously, it can be hard to KO him without you taking a lot of damage, and that dude only has two moves. His mobility is also ridiculous. He jumps higher than some characters can recover. I bet he could camp a CPU Ganondorf for days. Having that as a boss-exclusive character like that, especially with many more moves than Guile’s 2, sounds like hell to fight against.

Or maybe I’m just gatekeeping bosses idk

I mean, with the character being made with the intent of being fought as a boss, I don't think they'd deliberately give him Assist Trophy jank.

 

[Will]

I mean, with the character being made with the intent of being fought as a boss, I don't think they'd deliberately give him Assist Trophy jank.

The only jank Guile arguably has is the super armor on his Flash Kick. And it’s a boss, they’re gonna have jank. No boss is jankless.

You think Akuma/Oni wouldn’t have the Shun Goku Satsu? The series-famous instant death super move that destroys your soul? It’s his signature move dawg And he’ll take your stock clean, too.

 

[Kirbeh]

The only jank Guile arguably has is the super armor on his Flash Kick. And it’s a boss, they’re gonna have jank. No boss is jankless.

You think Akuma/Oni wouldn’t have the Shun Goku Satsu? The series-famous instant death super move that destroys your soul? It’s his signature move dawg And he’ll take your stock clean, too.

That's being deliberately overpowered not jank. I'd be disappointed if Oni didn't combo players into oblivion.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Crazy and Stupid Boss idea: a 2 vs 1 fight with Bubsy and Lester the Unlikely.

 

[Ivander]

Take Guile for example. Try to beat him when he’s out on the field as an Assist Trophy… without items. Seriously, it can be hard to KO him without you taking a lot of damage, and that dude only has two moves. His mobility is also ridiculous. He jumps higher than some characters can recover. I bet he could camp a CPU Ganondorf for days. Having that as a boss-exclusive character like that, especially with many more moves than Guile’s 2, sounds like hell to fight against.

Still think that fighting the KO-able Assist Trophies by themselves(besides Rathalos, since he already has a Boss Battle) for their Spirit Battles would've been great, almost like fighting a Mini-Boss. And with the addition of being able to fight Spirit Battles anytime(something that should've been done for Boss Spirits), it would've added some Replayability.

 

[Will]

That's being deliberately overpowered not jank. I'd be disappointed if Oni didn't combo players into oblivion.

I mean… it still would be totally unfair, which is still my point. I guess it isn’t exactly jank if it works as intended, but all the bosses have certain things like that. Making him smaller would just make it harder on certain characters that don’t have the tools to reach him quickly.

 

[Sucumbio]

When they show up I always stop fighting people and just the AT or like the mush man thing in mega man...

 

[Arcanir]

I mean, Mythicals aren't really that different from Legendaries aside from mostly being gotten from Events, cause otherwise, they practically function the same as Legendary and even Sub-Legendary Pokemon. And there were some Mythicals that had a good-sized fanbase and were certainly wanted as fighters, like Deoxys, Darkrai, Genesect, Marshadow and Zeraora.

I still get a little sad whenever I get Genesect from the Pokeball, it would've been a cool Pokemon to have as playable.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Who was the one with the """clever""" idea of having Zoroark in the Master Ball?

 

[Sucumbio]

Who was the one with the """clever""" idea of having Zoroark in the Master Ball?

I dunno but I want playable Hisuian Zoroark!

 

[Kirbeh]

View attachment 381003

I mean… it still would be totally unfair, which is still my point. I guess it isn’t exactly jank if it works as intended, but all the bosses have certain things like that. Making him smaller would just make it harder on certain characters that don’t have the tools to reach him quickly.

I think I slight size increase would do the trick, just so long as he's not super fast. Keep him SF speed rather than Smash speed.

 

[Laniv]

would you settle for a mythical?

Genesect is apparently a mythical, so...

wait why is there a divide between legendary and mythical pokémon anyways