Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gorgonzales]

To some extent they should, I think at the very least you have the tennis racket and let him whack a ball around. And I believe his air swimming abilities from the Tennis games would make for a great recovery. But I would much prefer that on the whole, they let Waluigi's dynamic character dictate the moveset over simply reaching for the "canon" references. Waluigi is both extremely defined as a dastardly, cheating sore loser but also a pretty blank slate in terms of what you can DO with him.

Anyone in the Mario universe can swing a bat and ride a go-kart. What is unique to Waluigi? In my eyes it's his characterization as a cheater. Waluigi is essentially a cartoon villain - by design of course, he looks just like D-ick Dastardly (they censored me for this lol). And remember those amazing Mario sports opening cutscenes? He and Wario make for such a hilarious villainous duo. Probably inspired by another duo of wacky animated schemers...

<-- Tonzura and Boyacky from Time Bokan / Yatterman.

So let's lean into that - for his forward tilt, maybe he pokes you in the eye as if he was one of the Three Stooges. He air swims upward like Lupin the Third and at the peak, if he hasn't grabbed the ledge, wiggles around frantically and plummets straight down like Wile E Coyote. And he embodies an unpredictability and outright strangeness, getting hit with some of Waluigi's attacks should feel unfair because that's exactly his game. Like an Up Smash where he contorts into the pose of an upside down L, with a random spike on his fingertips. You'll be left wondering what the hell happened and feel cheated out of your win, and Waluigi will be laughing all the way to the winner's podium. Just crazy stuff like that, yknow? Really just spitballing all the wackiest ideas I can think of. And why not, let's give him that burying stomp that has become so iconic of his presence in Smash by now.

Smash doesn't get to simply let a character's personality guide their moveset in this way very often and I think it would make for a really fun and refreshing character. Not without his references, but there's so much untapped potential with Waluigi and Smash may be just the place to bring it out. That's what is compelling about him to me, at least.

This is the correct take. The tennis moves and the air swimming should be there, but I don't think it should go beyond that when it comes to embodying spin-off games except for maybe a Mario Party-inspired move (since everyone feels cheated in that series anyway.) Love that idea for the eye poke and the jank hitboxes, it's totally him: His character SHOULD be mostly based on his personality.

 

[Ivander]

Geno, Waluigi, Toad, King Boo...

Notable characters with big fanbases....and how much it sucks trying to decide which ones among them with characters from many other series get in.

 

[Kirbeh]

To some extent they should, I think at the very least you have the tennis racket and let him whack a ball around. And I believe his air swimming abilities from the Tennis games would make for a great recovery. But I would much prefer that on the whole, they let Waluigi's dynamic character dictate the moveset over simply reaching for the "canon" references. Waluigi is both extremely defined as a dastardly, cheating sore loser but also a pretty blank slate in terms of what you can DO with him.

Anyone in the Mario universe can swing a bat and ride a go-kart. What is unique to Waluigi? In my eyes it's his characterization as a cheater. Waluigi is essentially a cartoon villain - by design of course, he looks just like D-ick Dastardly (they censored me for this lol). And remember those amazing Mario sports opening cutscenes? He and Wario make for such a hilarious villainous duo. Probably inspired by another duo of wacky animated schemers...

<-- Tonzura and Boyacky from Time Bokan / Yatterman.

So let's lean into that - for his forward tilt, maybe he pokes you in the eye as if he was one of the Three Stooges. He air swims upward like Lupin the Third and at the peak, if he hasn't grabbed the ledge, wiggles around frantically and plummets straight down like Wile E Coyote. And he embodies an unpredictability and outright strangeness, getting hit with some of Waluigi's attacks should feel unfair because that's exactly his game. Like an Up Smash where he contorts into the pose of an upside down L, with a random spike on his fingertips. You'll be left wondering what the hell happened and feel cheated out of your win, and Waluigi will be laughing all the way to the winner's podium. Just crazy stuff like that, yknow? Really just spitballing all the wackiest ideas I can think of. And why not, let's give him that burying stomp that has become so iconic of his presence in Smash by now.

Smash doesn't get to simply let a character's personality guide their moveset in this way very often and I think it would make for a really fun and refreshing character. Not without his references, but there's so much untapped potential with Waluigi and Smash may be just the place to bring it out. That's what is compelling about him to me, at least.

They really need to bring back Syrup, like they did with Pauline. She could be the Doronjo of the group in sports/spin-off titles.

Back to Waluigi though, he honestly has way more to pull from than people give him credit for, it's just been added piece meal over the course of his many appearances. Plus, as you said, there's plenty of potential for original moves too using his build and personality as the basis.

At the end of the day, I think Toad can still carve out a niche as the "power-up guy" on the roster--he's the one who hands out power-ups in the Toad houses, so why not use them to fight?

And if I'm being honest, y'all are sleeping hard on King Boo.

Some people say we're running out of potential first party characters but for Mario alone I'd be more than happy to see anyone between Toad, Toadette, Captain Toad, Waluigi, King Boo, Pauline, and Paper Mario. And those are just the picks I see as more common/accepted. I'd be down for more echoes/semi-clones like Birdo and Dry Bowser, or another off the wall pick in the vein of . For the latter I'm still partial to the idea of adding Mary. O. Or they could finally acknowledge the RPGs and add Fawful or Geno finally.

 

[CannonStreak]

They really need to bring back Syrup, like they did with Pauline. She could be the Doronjo of the group in sports/spin-off titles.

Back to Waluigi though, he honestly has way more to pull from than people give him credit for, it's just been added piece meal over the course of his many appearances. Plus, as you said, there's plenty of potential for original moves too using his build and personality as the basis.


Some people say we're running out of potential first party characters but for Mario alone I'd be more than happy to see anyone between Toad, Toadette, Captain Toad, Waluigi, King Boo, Pauline, and Paper Mario. And those are just the picks I see as more common/accepted. I'd be down for more echoes/semi-clones like Birdo and Dry Bowser, or another off the wall pick in the vein of . For the latter I'm still partial to the idea of adding Mary. O. Or they could finally acknowledge the RPGs and add Fawful or Geno finally.

Fawful would be good at fighting in Smash Bros. Why?

'Cause he has fury!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[Louie G.]

They really need to bring back Syrup, like they did with Pauline. She could be the Doronjo of the group in sports/spin-off titles.

You're speaking my language, I was just talking about this with another friend recently lol. Even if it's just her and Wario, I want to see them butt heads or Wario begrudgingly team up with her again only to get the rug pulled out at the end of the day when she runs off with his treasure like in Shake It. She's such an underutilized character with an already fantastic dynamic with Wario and a very obvious layup with Waluigi if they so chose. Perhaps she can run a rival business in WarioWare? That would be a hell of a concept to run with, and they referenced a Wario Land 4 character in Move It. Who knows?

To wrap it back to Smash though, I wish more people campaigned for Syrup. I know she's kind of an oddball choice, like K. Rool but even less relevant and less popular, but everyone wants more Wario Land in Smash and I don't think campaigning for a drastic Wario rework is the way to do it. Personally I kinda love pirate characters by default and I think she'd be a lot of fun. Not gonna happen until she sees herself in a prominent role again, but hey we've pushed for pretty irrelevant characters in our time (Geno etc etc) so why not add another one to the pile?

 

[CannonStreak]

Kirbeh I forgot to adress one thing...

By Syrup, you mean Captain Syrup? If so, I agree! I have always wanted to see her playable in Smash, or at least be in another Wario game. She is an underrated classic character to me.

 

[HyperSomari64]

<-- Tonzura and Boyacky from Time Bokan / Yatterman.

So, does that mean Doronjo is the Wa-Peach or...?

 

[CannonStreak]

So, does that mean Doronjo is the Wa-Peach or...?

Hm, if there were a Princess Wa-Peach, I wonder what place she would rule?

 

[Speed Weed]

So, does that mean Doronjo is the Wa-Peach or...?

Nintendo devs have gone on record stating that they proposed a Wapeach but Miyamoto vetoed it on the grounds that he knew it was just gonna be Doronjo, so yes

 

[HyperSomari64]

Hm, if there were a Princess Wa-Peach, I wonder what place she would rule?

The Wushroow Kingdow? Sorry, I have nothing in my mind.

 

[CannonStreak]

The Wushroow Kingdow? Sorry, I have nothing in my mind.

Lol, nice one!

More like the Wa-shroom Kingdom though, if you ask me.

 

[Kirbeh]

Kirbeh I forgot to adress one thing...

By Syrup, you mean Captain Syrup? If so, I agree! I have always wanted to see her playable in Smash, or at least be in another Wario game. She is an underrated classic character to me.

Yes, I do mean Captain Syrup. I guess I should have clarified but the only other Syrup I can think of is the witch from Zelda.

But yeah, I was hoping that we'd see more of her after Wario Land's brief comeback with Shake It! but that sadly didn't happen since it flopped.

So, does that mean Doronjo is the Wa-Peach or...?

I guess? iirc Miyamoto rejected the idea without even looking at the design because he thought that's what they were going for.

oop 'd

 

[CannonStreak]

Yes, I do mean Captain Syrup. I guess I should have clarified but the only other Syrup I can think of is the witch from Zelda.

But yeah, I was hoping that we'd see more of her after Wario Land's brief comeback with Shake It! but that sadly didn't happen since it flopped.

Nah, that is okay. I was asking to make sure, but I already kinda knew what you were talking about.

 

[HyperSomari64]

The World if Shigeru Miyamoto saw Wapeach's WIP artwork and He loved it and approved the idea for Mario Tennis 64:

(He rejected Waluigi instead)

Also, if there was an hypothetical Wa-Bowser, would he be a good guy?

 

[Kirbeh]

Lol, nice one!

More like the Wa-shroom Kingdom though, if you ask me.

Honestly, if they did go ahead with a "Wa-Peach", I'd go with another pizza topping for the kingdom name, but something that's more divisive like pineapple.

 

[CannonStreak]

Honestly, if they did go ahead with a "Wa-Peach", I'd go with another pizza topping for the kingdom name, but something that's more divisive like pineapple.

Oh, Pineapple does sound good for that kind of kingdom!

How about the Spinach Kingdom? Wa means bad in Japanese and Spinach is considered bad by many kids, is it not?

 

[Kirbeh]

The World if Shigeru Miyamoto saw Wapeach's WIP artwork and He loved it and approved the idea for Mario Tennis 64:

(He rejected Waluigi instead)

Also, if there was an hypothetical Wa-Bowser, would he be a good guy?

I think at point it would be adding too many. Plus, the naming scheme wouldn't even work because the wa is taken from warui meaning bad, and Bowser's already the bad guy.

Also couldn't they just use Midbus if they wanted to give Bowser a parallel/rival character?

Now I kinda want Midbus in Smash as a Bowser semi clone with Ice Breath and such.

Oh, Pineapple does sound good for that kind of kingdom!

How about the Spinach Kingdom? Wa means bad in Japanese and Spinach is considered bad by many kids, is it not?

If they went with Spinach Kingdom, they're obligated to actually give her a parent/king in the form of a Mario version of Popeye. That could actually be worked into the "wa" part of her character as well. Make her younger than the other princesses, and a bit bratty/rebellious to be the "bad" part of her.

It could even loop back to Yatterman by taking a little inspiration from another set of characters inspired by Doronjo and her cronies; Devilotte from Capcom's Cyberbots.

Spoiler

Just make it look more gothic-lolita since the devs that were designing her gave the description of her having been a "datenshi" (fallen angel) style design.

So I imagine the design was something like the face/demeanor of a character like Devilotte but with a dress closer to something like this:

Spoiler

(example used is Freya from Chobits)

 

[Ivander]

How about the Spinach Kingdom? Wa means bad in Japanese and Spinach is considered bad by many kids, is it not?

I think it was only because Spinach was given in that sloppy canned stuff, like what was portrayed in Popeye and whatnot.

Spinach leaves are fantastic.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If garlic made Wario big in the first Wario Land, then why it isn't a Garlic King-oh, wait, that already exists and it's Diamond City.

 

[Kirbeh]

You're speaking my language, I was just talking about this with another friend recently lol. Even if it's just her and Wario, I want to see them butt heads or Wario begrudgingly team up with her again only to get the rug pulled out at the end of the day when she runs off with his treasure like in Shake It. She's such an underutilized character with an already fantastic dynamic with Wario and a very obvious layup with Waluigi if they so chose. Perhaps she can run a rival business in WarioWare? That would be a hell of a concept to run with, and they referenced a Wario Land 4 character in Move It. Who knows?

To wrap it back to Smash though, I wish more people campaigned for Syrup. I know she's kind of an oddball choice, like K. Rool but even less relevant and less popular, but everyone wants more Wario Land in Smash and I don't think campaigning for a drastic Wario rework is the way to do it. Personally I kinda love pirate characters by default and I think she'd be a lot of fun. Not gonna happen until she sees herself in a prominent role again, but hey we've pushed for pretty irrelevant characters in our time (Geno etc etc) so why not add another one to the pile?

Ooh, I do like the idea of introducing her into the Wario Ware series but I'd never considered her being a business rival. I'd always pictured her as making cameo appearances or becoming part of the crew.

With your idea, she could start a rival micro game company and maybe even poach some of Wario's friends/employees as part of the story (he gets them back by the end of course.) Then in later installments she could either properly join as another of Wario's friends but keep the rival dynamic or continue her side by bringing in more Wario Land characters and some new Wario Ware characters too of course.

I could see Mad Scienstein as easy choice to rival Dr. Crygor. Princess Shokora could be revived somehow or simply hang around as a ghost and serve as a counterpart/friend/rival to Ashley. Maybe they could find a way to work in some others like Queen Merelda and the Merfles? They drop by Diamond City to visit and get roped into Wario's shenanigans. Maybe have micro game themes be tied to past bosses (Rudy the Clown, Shake King, etc.) instead of Wario's friends as they work to beat them and reclaim the city?

I do also find it funny that Syrup and the rejected Wapeach got brought up in the same conversation. Obviosuly I wouldn't want her to be a Peach clone, but I think she could work in that sort of role in regard to Mario titles. Being kind of like Doronjo as mentioned earlier. I feel like her portrayal in Shake It! already moved her a bit in that direction.

As for Smash I think it could work as well, but not to the same degree of course. I actually made a moveset for her in the early pre-Smash 4 speculation cycle where I essentially approached her in that manner. Making her the Wario to Peach's Mario (and Daisy the Luigi.) I didn't actually give them that many similarities, but from what I can remember there were a few things here and there. I do recall giving her a butt bump Side B like Peach Bomber called Pirate's Booty. Functionally though it was meant to work more like Terry/Rock's Burn Knuckle/Hard Edge, but you know, with her "peach."

 

[Quillion]

I gotta admit: Syrup's got potential, but as of her only three appearances, she really isn't that interesting. Her design is a bog-standard "pirate girl" design, and there isn't really much to her as of yet other than "typical greedy pirate after treasure."

I'll give Geno this: he's made an impact in ONE game (and a remake) many times more than Syrup has made in three. Heck, you gotta respect that Geno rivals fellow spin-off character Waluigi in popularity, and Waluigi had to earn his by appearing over and over again in spin-offs whereas Geno made a splash and stayed that way.
----
Going a bit back:

I’ll just never understand the hangup with whether something is main series or a recurring character. If the character made a lasting impact and they have a lot of fans, why should either of these matter? At some point, we’re going to run out of recurring characters for mainline entries of games and then what? Once we get Toad and maybe a couple others like Pauline are we just not ever getting another Mario character? Are Impa and Beedle the only possible Zelda newcomers we can get? It just makes no sense to me to have that restriction.

Because honestly, the idea that Smash should represent every aspect of a series like Mario or Zelda in it is unrealistic. They could literally make a whole fighting game with Mario or Zelda characters alone at this point, and I'm seeing people want several fighting games' worth of content in Smash.

They need to leave time and resources available to represent other series too, because Smash is trying to focus on many series at once, not just one at a time. This is why Smash needs to focus on the most important things, not everything at once.

And like I've been saying, I don't see how Mario spin-off characters or Zelda one-shots qualify as "the most important things." Also Piranha Plant is an awful argument to put forth "anything goes" because at least Plants are prominent recurring enemies in the Mario main series.

All that said, I still dislike Pokémon and Fire Emblem constantly getting new characters from the newest games, and I'm dreading Xenoblade joining that rank, but at least those series are focusing on the most important things.

 

[Opossum]

I gotta admit: Syrup's got potential, but as of her only three appearances, she really isn't that interesting. Her design is a bog-standard "pirate girl" design, and there isn't really much to her as of yet other than "typical greedy pirate after treasure."

I'll give Geno this: he's made an impact in ONE game (and a remake) many times more than Syrup has made in three. Heck, you gotta respect that Geno rivals fellow spin-off character Waluigi in popularity, and Waluigi had to earn his by appearing over and over again in spin-offs whereas Geno made a splash and stayed that way.
----
Going a bit back:



Because honestly, the idea that Smash should represent every aspect of a series like Mario or Zelda in it is unrealistic. They could literally make a whole fighting game with Mario or Zelda characters alone at this point, and I'm seeing people want several fighting games' worth of content in Smash.

They need to leave time and resources available to represent other series too, because Smash is trying to focus on many series at once, not just one at a time. This is why Smash needs to focus on the most important things, not everything at once.

And like I've been saying, I don't see how Mario spin-off characters or Zelda one-shots qualify as "the most important things." Also Piranha Plant is an awful argument to put forth "anything goes" because at least Plants are prominent recurring enemies in the Mario main series.

All that said, I still dislike Pokémon and Fire Emblem constantly getting new characters from the newest games, and I'm dreading Xenoblade joining that rank, but at least those series are focusing on the most important things.

Waluigi is unironically more "important" than 90% of the first party characters that are already on the roster. Being a beloved Mario Spinoff regular is something folks like Falcon, Fox, or even Samus would dream of matching.

Honestly this whole position just brings to mind the very vocal part of the fanbase who, back in the Smash 4 days, didn't want any Mario newcomers because "we already have all we need with Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser."

 

[Stratos]

I don't know about you but I sadly seem to have to give up on the thought of Waluigi getting his own game, let alone appearing in Wario games series. Although I will always have hope deep down that it will happen eventually.

 

[fogbadge]

what are you all talking about? wa-peach is real

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'm not even a Waluigi fan, but it's so funny to me that people will act like Noah/Mio, Akira Howard and Alear are front runner and then act like Waluigi is not popular or important enough to be in Smash.

 

[Quillion]

Waluigi is unironically more "important" than 90% of the first party characters that are already on the roster. Being a beloved Mario Spinoff regular is something folks like Falcon, Fox, or even Samus would dream of matching.

Honestly this whole position just brings to mind the very vocal part of the fanbase who, back in the Smash 4 days, didn't want any Mario newcomers because "we already have all we need with Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser."

To be fair, considering that Mario lately has been refraining from introducing new main or recurring secondary characters lately, the Mario roster might stay fairly fixed in the future. Which is understandable; it would be like Mickey Mouse constantly accumulating new main characters beyond the "sensational six".

 

[DarthEnderX]

it would be like Mickey Mouse constantly accumulating new main characters beyond the "sensational six"

...
Mickey
Donald
Goofy
Minnie
Daisy
...?

 

[Gengar84]

...
Mickey
Donald
Goofy
Minnie
Daisy
...?

Pluto or Pete? That’s all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[fogbadge]

Pluto or Pete? That’s all I can think of off the top of my head.

it’s Pluto

 

[DarthEnderX]

it’s Pluto

Ah.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I agree with this. Oppossum helped me understand this better a long time ago. I used to be so ignorant to the point where I lost common sense. Characters must get in on accounts of sheer legacy, titles of their own. It's really important that they've seen multiple titles or permanent (VERY IMPORTANT) roles and recognition on their own accords. If never receives his own game, Waluigi is maybe THE ONLY ACCEPTION. Otherwise, the rest need this merit for the bigger message.

Don't hold your breath:
Luigi(at the time)
Ness(at the time)
Sheik
Roy( especially at the time)
R.O.B
Pit
Olimar
Shulk
Duck Hunt
Inkling
Byleth
Min Min

All inclusions listed already dismantle said mantra of need multiple titles and sheer legacy under their belt to get in. Honestly this is such an arbitary mindset regardless. Waluigi wouldn't first or even last "exception" to this rule.

This is the correct take. The tennis moves and the air swimming should be there, but I don't think it should go beyond that when it comes to embodying spin-off games except for maybe a Mario Party-inspired move (since everyone feels cheated in that series anyway.) Love that idea for the eye poke and the jank hitboxes, it's totally him: His character SHOULD be mostly based on his personality.

Yeah but this fanbase has a decency to hate on moveset that aren't just references all the time so Idk. Personally, it sounds quite neat to be to me

 

[Louie G.]

It's an arbitrary pattern, but we haven't seen a single Smash game that hasn't expanded on the Mario universe cast in one way or another. Brawl is the only slight deviation from this, but it would be silly not to count Wario. And Diddy Kong, if you'd like.

Beyond that, every game has introduced a minimum of two new Mario universe characters. Laying it out it's a pretty nice, consistent growth.







I don't think this is a quota they're intentionally meeting or anything, but there's always a vast well of fun characters here to pull from. When shooting for massive crowd pleasers for casual and dedicated Nintendo fans alike, you might want to shoot for someone who will be recognizable to even the children picking up their first Smash Bros because Mario was on the cover (that was me, once upon a time). I don't think anyone really needs convincing that Mario will probably continue to get new content, but I have a hard time seeing that roster become static even in a significant trimming scenario. Waluigi, (Captain) Toad, Paper Mario, etc etc can probably stand on their own even if we gotta let a couple of these guys sit out.

Bottom line, that Smash 4 era stance about Mario being fine with just its main four characters is pretty damn funny. At bare minimum it's true, but there's truly no reason for them to stop there. There are some series on the roster that I truly do believe are fine just as they are (Metroid, for example) but I see this kind of stance weaponized often toward series that in my opinion I think people are just afraid of getting billing over their favorite characters. Now instead of Mario, it's Animal Crossing. And in another decade it'll be someone else.

...and speaking of which, while we're reflecting on silly Smash 4 era speculation, it's surreal to peek back into a world where some people wouldn't even bother adding a third Fire Emblem character or thought Chrom would be replacing Ike. Look at us now!

 

[Laniv]

I think Toad is more than popular enough. I think his only potential hurdle is his inclusion in Peach’s moveset. That can be easily addressed by either changing Peach’s moveset or going with Captain Toad over default for the playable character.

People often say to simply replace Toad with Toadsworth, but consider:

Is it drastic to replace Toad with Stella? A bit. But remember, they almost added Perry from Super Princess Peach to her moveset in Brawl, so it's not too far-fetched.

 

[Louie G.]

Is it drastic to replace Toad with Stella? A bit. But remember, they almost added Perry from Super Princess Peach to her moveset in Brawl, so it's not too far-fetched.

In Perry's defense, he's essentially just a retexturing of something Peach already has. Stella could functionally replace Toad... or not, we don't totally know what her deal is yet, but it might feel a bit odd to add a character to her moveset with no prior association unless Peach Showtime is an absolute groundbreaking success. In general I hesitate to make those kind of changes to established characters unless we see that impact manifest itself. Or else we run that risk we talked about the other day of letting movesets become "outdated" by virtue of contemporary references.

Not that we can't replace Toad with some other thing though, retooling it into a variation on Chargebrella from Super Princess Peach is something I've heard thrown around for years and I feel like that could work. I think what they're going for with Toad is representing Peach's royal status and finding a way to incorporate her subjects - not unlike the now-abandoned Waddle Dee Toss - so I wonder if we wanted to keep that element in tact what the next best thing could be.

On that note though, I think Daisy needs that Neutral B reworked whether Toad comes back or not. On the whole I think she works just fine as an echo fighter but that move is particularly kind of uncharacteristic. I'm undecided who I would replace Toad with though, assuming it's not turned into something brand new. Probably just something more offensive than defensive.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is it drastic to replace Toad with Stella?

I mean, that game is probably going to have dozens of moves you could swap with Toad.

Hopefully, it provides something to replace her FS too.

 

[Gengar84]

People often say to simply replace Toad with Toadsworth, but consider:

View attachment 380748

Is it drastic to replace Toad with Stella? A bit. But remember, they almost added Perry from Super Princess Peach to her moveset in Brawl, so it's not too far-fetched.

I could see that working if they wanted to add a playable Toad. Alternatively, you could leave Peach as is and add Toad anyway. We have a separate playable Chrom while he’s still a part of Robin’s final smash.

 

[SPEN18]

I really think we will see at least one of Toad and Waluigi next time. It's clear that at least one Mario newcomer is pretty much happening, and those two seem to be the clear frontrunners. You basically don't have to worry about these two characters being well-received. They've both been around for a long time and are still very relevant, recurring, popular, recognizable, etc. There is an outside chance that they'd go for another Mario character like, say, King Boo for the purpose of continuing to push the breakout Luigi's Mansion series, or something like that, but even then it's probable that such a character would be in addition to rather than instead of Toad/Waluigi. Maybe I am just getting stuck in tunnel vision but Toad and Waluigi seem like easy choices to both delight fans and continue to promote the ever-growing Marioverse.

I also think Peach's moveset is a non-issue for Toad. Different Toads appear on-screen together in media all the time; I don't see why anyone at Nintendo would have an issue with it in Smash.

 

[Perkilator]

On that note though, I think Daisy needs that Neutral B reworked whether Toad comes back or not. On the whole I think she works just fine as an echo fighter but that move is particularly kind of uncharacteristic. I'm undecided who I would replace Toad with though, assuming it's not turned into something brand new. Probably just something more offensive than defensive.

I was thinking Daisy's new neutral special could be a counter/reflector with a tennis racket that only works on projectiles.

 

[Kirbeh]

I know making movesets dated was just brought up, but I've been thinking about the possibility of replacing Peach/Daisy's Toad counter with the Bubble Flower. Tweaked to work better in Smash of course.

While they did just debut, I don't think it's far fetched that they'll be brought back in the future. More general power ups tend to be reoccurring elements compared to something like FLUDD for example.

As for how they'd work, I don't think they should trap opponents but instead pop on impact. However I do think that they should retain the ability to be used as bouncy platforms.

So if it collides with you it pops and deals damage. If you can land on top, it'll pop and bounce you upwards.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Waluigi is unironically more "important" than 90% of the first party characters that are already on the roster. Being a beloved Mario Spinoff regular is something folks like Falcon, Fox, or even Samus would dream of matching.

Honestly this whole position just brings to mind the very vocal part of the fanbase who, back in the Smash 4 days, didn't want any Mario newcomers because "we already have all we need with Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser."

See I agree that Waluigi is objectively more well-known across the world than most of the other fighters in the game, but if you used that logic, half the roster would be Pokémon and Mario characters. Heck, Piranha Plant is more known than a lot of others. My parents could probably tell you what a Piranha Plant is before they could name a Final Fantasy character. Gotta Senate those stats and give the smaller franchises a chance.