Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

Nintendo Trading Card Stickers:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ha4AAOSwQv9hbKUa/s-l1600.jpg

View attachment 339317


Four series are featured in these cards but only three of them are represented in Smash. Time to get that one other series represented in Smash now.

Younger me would mistake this for meaning Double Dragon was a Nintendo IP...

 

[Gengar84]

Nintendo Trading Card Stickers:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ha4AAOSwQv9hbKUa/s-l1600.jpg

View attachment 339317


Four series are featured in these cards but only three of them are represented in Smash. Time to get that one other series represented in Smash now.

Weird that they’d just include one third party game in that. It’s kind of sad that it took me as long as it did to to recognize it was Double Dragon considering I grew up with the NES. I mostly remembered because those enemies looked familiar rom Battletoads & Double Dragon. Abobo really clued me in, being the first boss of that game.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Younger me would mistake this for meaning Double Dragon was a Nintendo IP...

Same here. Totally understandable, though. Some people may have been introduced to the series on the NES.

Weird that they’d just include one third party game in that. It’s kind of sad that it took me as long as it did to to recognize it was Double Dragon considering I grew up with the NES. I mostly remembered because those enemies looked familiar rom Battletoads & Double Dragon. Abobo really clued me in, being the first boss of that game.

It's surprising that a third-party series was even included. I guess it shows how Double Dragon was viewed on a Nintendo console at that time.

 

[Gengar84]

I played a bit of Double Dragon on the NES but I never owned a game in the series. It wasn’t until the SNES that I bought a game with Billy and Jimmy Lee. I had a ton of fun with Battletoads & Double Dragon and it’s my favorite game from either franchise.

If either series got a character in Smash, I would prefer the Battletoads first. Their cartoony moveset and design just seems like the perfect fit for a game like Smash. I’d like to see Billy and Jimmy down the line as well but they always felt a bit plain in comparison. Still, Double Dragon has a great legacy and was fun as well. Ideally, we’d get the Toads and the Lee brothers so they can finally reunite in Smash.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I played a bit of Double Dragon on the NES but I never owned a game in the series. It wasn’t until the SNES that I bought a game with Billy and Jimmy Lee. I had a ton of fun with Battletoads & Double Dragon and it’s my favorite game from either franchise.

If either series got a character in Smash, I would prefer the Battletoads first. Their cartoony moveset and design just seems like the perfect fit for a game like Smash. I’d like to see Billy and Jimmy down the line as well but they always felt a bit plain in comparison. Still, Double Dragon has a great legacy and was fun as well. Ideally, we’d get the Toads and the Lee brothers so they can finally reunite in Smash.

I played Battletoads & Double Dragon myself (played the SNES version and owned the Game Boy version). I wouldn't mind if both series got in too. It's just that I played more Double Dragon games growing up and even in that game, I always picked either Billy or Jimmy. I guess I'm just that much of a Double Dragon fan.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Get in line behind Kunio!

Younger me would mistake this for meaning Double Dragon was a Nintendo IP...

Ah yes. The four pillars of the NES!
Mario Bros, Zelda...Punch-Out....Double Dragon.

 

[Will]

You know what's super underappreciated imo? Smash Bros. boss fights. You know what I'm gonna do? Make a hypothetical boss fight. You know who today's subject is? Spamton NEO from Deltarune. Let's imagine Toby Fox whooped Sakurai's ass in Smash again and this was the barter. Everything from the location, attacks, and even phases will be covered here.

[Heaven], are you watching? It's time to make a [Very Specil] deal!​

Spoiler: Location

You can't have a good boss fight without the proper [Hell Hole] to fight in. Like most bosses in Smash, the stage would be a completely flat field with a walk-off. Only rarely will there be boss stages with ledges (Master/Crazy Hand or Galeem/Dharkon) or stage hazards (Meta-Ridley in SSE). I do plan to spice things up here, but in the beginning, it will take place at the Dark Fountain, where you fight Spamton NEO during the Snowgrave route.

It's simple. It's flat. It has a walk-off. It has pretty colors in the background. You may ask why it's not the other place, but believe me, we will get there when we [Take A Ride around Town on Our Specil Cungadero]. You could also fill the void of a background with scenery more fitting of Cyber City. Perhaps a background similar to the final boss of Chapter 2's normal/pacifist route, GIGA Queen. Of course, with a Fountain in the background still.

​

​

Spoiler: Music

This doesn't need to be explained. It doesn't need to be remixed, because we saw Megalovania go untouched, but it wouldn't hurt to have one.

Spoiler: Boss Characteristics

Spamton NEO is a ranged attacker who prioritizes annoying you with ranged attacks to keep you away from him. He holds many projectile attacks with varying size, power, and attack attribute. Not all attacks are coming from Spamton NEO himself, so you will have to keep your eye on the entire stage to notice when hazards may arrive.

While you're fighting Spamton NEO himself, it's also worth noting that his strings are also given a hurtbox and have a 1.5x multiplier when attacked. However, since Spamton NEO would be mostly above you during both phases, it is made difficult to easily exploit.

Spoiler: Phase 1 Attacks

Spoiler: Spamton's Attacks

[Heart Attack]

​

Spamton lets you be part of his [Beautiful Heart]. Like in his home game, the heart will spring back and forth from Spamton's chest. The heart itself has a hurtbox, but when it moves forward, it is both invincible and has a strong hitbox. If damaged enough times, it will break apart and Spamton will move on to his next attack prematurely. Unlike Deltarune however, this variant does not shoot sharp bullets as it moves, as that would be unbalanced and near impossible to counter for characters without reflectors.

[50 Bullets For Free]

​

This and the next attack after this only trigger while stage hazards are present. Spamton fires a large projectile from his blaster. It's got medium strength/knockback and has electrical properties. Think of it as a slower-moving, fully charged shot from Samus. Except, it's from Spamton.

[PIPIS]

You can't have such a great [Pipis Person] without their signature Pipis! While stage hazards roam the stage, Spamton will fire Pipis from his blaster. They will be shot at varying heights. They will bounce off of the ground once unharmed but will shatter into fast-moving pieces that do low damage/knockback upon contact. They will also shatter if they make direct contact with a stage hazard. The best way to stop Pipis is to attack and destroy it before it explodes. If you are fast enough, the flying heads can be destroyed with any attack and do not clash with any move.

Spoiler: Stage Hazards

[Flying Heads]

​

Blue Flying Heads will roam from random sections of the stage. Some are individual, while others are spawned in chain links of 4 heads (in a line) at a time. They can be immediately destroyed in one hit. If not destroyed, they will shoot one pellet shot in the direction of where the player is. They spawn in greater numbers when Spamton is firing a projectile from his blaster.

[Bombs]

Sometimes, with the flying heads, a bomb will be introduced in the mix. Similar to how Bomberman's bombs work while using his Assist Trophy, they explode in a straight vertical and diagonal line once attacked. Anything can trigger this bomb; your attacks or Spamton's. Even the pellets from the Flying Heads can trigger it, just not within the same chain link. It does medium damage if it hits the player.

Spoiler: Phase 2 Trigger and Attacks

You will know that you've reached this phase by the visual and audio cues presented. They're coming straight from the Normal/Pacifist version of the fight, where attacking him will give a whistling audio cue and a steaming enraged Spamton visual cue.

​

When triggered, Spamton's strings will pull him offscreen and the flat walk-off will disappear entirely, dropping the player into an entirely new stage in the [Abyss] of Queen's [Mansion]. The stage's platforms are the Spamton carts that you fight on during the Normal/Pacifist fight. Imagine them either wider or connected by the chain, similar to the Spirit Tracks stage, to fit for such a wide gap. The carts will move and sway in various directions at different times, so it won't always be as pictured below.

i made this in ms paint don't judge me
​

From this point on, there are only two new attacks introduced. Most other moves are simply enhanced or made more powerful. Here are following changes and new attacks:

Spoiler: Updated Attacks

[NEO Heart Attack]

There are now three attacking hearts whenever Spamton does this move. The smaller hearts follow the same mechanics as the bigger heart but have less overall health and disappear faster.

[NEO 50 Bullets for Free]

As pictured, some shots will now blink yellow and transform into a three-way scattershot of projectiles. This is ripped from the Gripping Phones attack and not his standard blaster attack, but it made sense to upgrade it somehow in this final phase.

[Press F1 for Help]

​

This isn't actually an attack. It's a full heal! This will rarely spawn in with the Flying Heads once you hit the second phase, or alternatively will have at least one spawn if the fight isn't completed within three minutes and thirty seconds. It will heal 100%.

Spoiler: Final Attack

[The Power of NEO]

Once you've gotten Spamton's health down about 75%, he will once again fly off-screen. All but one cart per track will disappear. That is when Spamton's giant form appears. Just like Deltarune, he will do two attacks. The first attack is him absorbing [DELICIOUS KROMER] which will come from behind the player.

ms paint can't do everything, imagine that SOUL is mario or something lol
​

Finally, Spamton fires projectiles back out at varying heights. Simply avoid the shots by jumping and falling through the cart platforms, or you can reflect them and damage Spamton slightly. Just like in the original, there is one [BIG SHOT] among the other avoidable projectiles. Simply back up as far as you can and you will not be hit by it. The shot will explode, fade the screen to white briefly, and the fight will then resume as normal. Spamton NEO will only do this attack once, and only once.

Spoiler: Defeat Screen

There are two unique defeat screens for Spamton. The first one is the normal one if defeated regularly. Spamton will begin to sway rapidly, glow white, and then explode. This is similar to his defeat via violence in the Normal route.

​

The other screen is difficult to obtain, because it will only trigger if you attack Spamton via his wires, which I mentioned earlier as also having a hurtbox. This ending will result in how he is defeated nonviolently: with his strings being cut and him falling lifelessly to the floor. I'm not including this because it's a practical way to fight him, in fact I mentioned how it's difficult to even go for this route in the first place, but I like easter eggs.

had to combine these two cause you can only have 20 files attached lol
​

So yeah, that's it. Spamton NEO boss fight. Did I do a good job? Am I a kino boss fight creator?

 

[Noipoi]

Good ****, boss. Really like the concepts.

 

[Yamat08]

So I made this post on a GameFAQS thread not too long ago.

In general, I just get really annoyed by what seem like bandwagon picks more than anything else. But the thing is, there's been a history of Sakurai actually listening and including them. It happened with Cloud, it happened with Ridley, it happened with Dark Samus, it happened with K. Rool, it happened with Banjo&Kazooie, it happened with Sephiroth, it happened with Sora. And for all I know, it probably WILL happen with Waluigi, Crash, Spyro, Geno, Master Chief, Shantae, Ryu Hayabusa, Eggman, Dante, or whoever else.

I don't particularly hate any of these characters, and whenever they're revealed to actually be in Smash, my reaction is pretty much "Okay, cool" before moving on. But for the time before their announcement, I guess what gets to me is the constant parroting of the same 5 damn characters combined with the general smugness of the fans who're so sure that it's an absolute guarantee (especially the ones who'll bash everyone else's picks as just being a "literal who"). Yet in the end, I'm no arbitrator of what Sakurai and Nintendo will decide on. I guess to be fair, I was totally on the Sonic and MegaMan bandwagons myself way back when the 3rd party floodgates were first open (though aside from Sonic, the newcomers for Brawl seemed like a complete mystery going in, especially since it seemed like the "essentials" of Metaknight, Wario, and Pit were immediately revealed in the first trailer).

I guess I bring this up to ask: in general, what do you think about "bandwagon" picks? And how do you feel when they actually manage to get in?

Now that I think about it, a lot of my MWs (Lip, KOS-MOS, Reimu) are anything but bandwagon picks (though KOS-MOS did see a bit of a surge during Fighter5 speculation due to fake leaks, but I was interested in her well before then). I guess I really like to see characters who are more in Terry's league (or Hero, who happens to be a character I personally wanted who did make it in). Something that not a massive amount of people were asking for, and thus what not everybody could see coming, yet just significant enough that their inclusion in Smash could still be warranted. Sleeper picks, really.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Nintendo Support: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Update Ver. 13.0.1 - Fighter Adjustments

en-americas-support.nintendo.com

Patch notes have finally arrived. Thoughts?

 

[SPEN18]

I guess I bring this up to ask: in general, what do you think about "bandwagon" picks? And how do you feel when they actually manage to get in?

Personally, I just root for the characters I think should be in the game regardless of how popular or unpopular they are. Most of the characters I have supported over the years haven't really qualified as "bandwagons" but I've supported several popular characters to varying degrees.

A lot of my posts could be construed as anti-bandwagon since I don't really support the vast majority of "big" third parties, but that's because I think most of them are poor fits for what is primarily a Nintendo fighter and not because they're big with rabid fanbases. I don't really consider a character's fanbase when deciding if I think they are roster-worthy.

On the other side of things, during the leadup to Ultimate I supported many of the "Ballot characters," and even criticized Sakurai/Nintendo for not looking at the Ballot enough for newcomers, but this wasn't because I equated popularity with roster worthiness, but rather because I saw the ballot as the only likely way to potentially get several particular characters like Isaac, Ridley, K. Rool, Waluigi, Dixie Kong, etc. I felt based on exit polls that the ballot got a lot right in terms of who the next first-party reps should be, with the exception of a ton of pandering to veterans that I hoped would be ignored before "Everyone is Here" was revealed and made my head spin. There was also some stuff like Paper Mario and Waddle Dee littered about exit polls that I didn't like, but the good seemed to outweigh the bad in supporting usage of the ballot. Turns out that the ballot was likely more heavily tilted towards third parties than I thought, and even carved a path for crazy never-evers that I thought we'd never have to worry about like Cloud, Sora, Simon, etc. So I guess that all backfired; I must have been stuck in 2005 thinking that most of the top-voted third parties just weren't going to be feasible to add due to licensing :/. In summary, if it seemed in the past like I was vehemently supporting the ballot, it was only because I thought the ballot got it largely right for who should be next.

 

[Gengar84]

So I made this post on a GameFAQS thread not too long ago.



I guess I bring this up to ask: in general, what do you think about "bandwagon" picks? And how do you feel when they actually manage to get in?

Now that I think about it, a lot of my MWs (Lip, KOS-MOS, Reimu) are anything but bandwagon picks (though KOS-MOS did see a bit of a surge during Fighter5 speculation due to fake leaks, but I was interested in her well before then). I guess I really like to see characters who are more in Terry's league (or Hero, who happens to be a character I personally wanted who did make it in). Something that not a massive amount of people were asking for, and thus what not everybody could see coming, yet just significant enough that their inclusion in Smash could still be warranted. Sleeper picks, really.

I usually root for characters that don’t tend to get a lot of attention in the Smash speculation scene. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with cheering for your favorites even if they are popular so I’m also fine with “bandwagon” characters. The only time I start to have a problem is when fans of some of those characters put down others because their favorites are “less deserving”. Even then, people are free to think what they want as long as they try to be respectful about it. At the end of the day, Smash is just a game and not worth getting stressed out over.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So I made this post on a GameFAQS thread not too long ago.



I guess I bring this up to ask: in general, what do you think about "bandwagon" picks? And how do you feel when they actually manage to get in?

Now that I think about it, a lot of my MWs (Lip, KOS-MOS, Reimu) are anything but bandwagon picks (though KOS-MOS did see a bit of a surge during Fighter5 speculation due to fake leaks, but I was interested in her well before then). I guess I really like to see characters who are more in Terry's league (or Hero, who happens to be a character I personally wanted who did make it in). Something that not a massive amount of people were asking for, and thus what not everybody could see coming, yet just significant enough that their inclusion in Smash could still be warranted. Sleeper picks, really.

If characters are popular for years, sometimes even decades, how are they a bandwagon?

As someone who wants a lot of more lowkey characters this just seems like hipster talk.

 

[Gengar84]

If characters are popular for years, sometimes even decades, how are they a bandwagon?

As someone who wants a lot of more lowkey characters this just seems like hipster talk.

I think the only characters I would consider “bandwagon” are the ones used in fake leaks who weren’t brought up much prior to that leak. Even then, it’s fully possible many people already wanted these characters previously but felt they had little chance before the leak raised awareness of the character. I don’t really like the term “bandwagon” because it is making assumptions as to why people want a character and can be used to put down people who want them, even if unintentionally.

 

[Perkilator]

Here's another character idea I've been buzzing in my head; it's...no secret that Corrin's garnered a lot of hate when they were revealed for Super Smash Bros. for 3DS / Wii U back in December 2015 as one of the last two DLC fighters. In turn, this caused a lot of hate towards Fire Emblem characters in Smash in general (especially when Byleth was the last character of Ultimate's Fighters Pass Vol. 1, but that's another story).

Bottom line; Corrin is, at the very least, mostly unique from other FE characters with their moveset. But I've been wondering something for a while...what if Azura, another important character in Fates, was the rep for that game instead of Corrin? Azura is currently a Spirit in Ultimate, but this topic is more of a what-if scenario where Azura chooses to dance on the battlefield (which, honestly, I would've preferred over Corrin).

Note: My inspiration came from an article Source Gaming posted back in 2016. A lot of what I say here is more or less word-for-word from the article.

Spoiler: What Azura would bring to the table

• A better representation of Fates: While one could say Corrin represents the game currently (as both characters are playable on all three sides), I believe they primarily represent themselves, as all moves and animations are based on their Dragon Fang ability. Fates is currently the only game in the series to grant certain units the unique ability of Dragon Vein, which allows its user(s) to manipulate their environment. Corrin, despite having this ability in the game, does not incorporate it in tjeir Smash moveset. Azura, being of royalty, is another Dragon Vein user in the game. For my moveset, she uses them as a secondary action for her specials, which I’ll touch upon later.
• Lance user: As of now, the closest thing to a lance user is the side attacks Byleth uses. There are several sword wielders, but no true lance wielders. Azura would fill that niche while also representing spear fighters from FE generally.
  • Now, I know what you're thinking; if Azura got in, it'd deconfirm Bandana Waddle Dee, right? Well, I believe Azura and BWD would still be different despite carrying the same weapons, but again, that's another story.
• Dancer: Or, in Azura's case, a Songstress, but the core function is more or less the same; primarily a support unit that invigorates adjacent units for extended actions. Dancers are genrally fragile speedsters who can dodge just fine, but could die in a second when sent too deep into enemy lines. Azura is one of the few dancers who can actually fight.

To translate all of these factors into Smash would be fairly simple; Azura is a lightweight and her overall recovery is somewhat limited. However, she’s far from weak due to the range of her lance alone. What also helps is her ability to bend water, primarily for her specials; remember when I teased Dragon Vein earlier? She can even use it to manipulate the water she's already using to (like I said earlier) perform a secondary action in the middle of a special move. She’s also very fast, allowing her to easily escape an enemy's range if possible.

Spoiler: Actual moveset

The one I did was inspired by Source Gaming, but I did deviate a little.

Intro: Azura appears from a circle of water, mimicking her battle intro animation from Fates

Stance/Idle 1: Her fighting stance from Fates
Idle 2: Azura’s pre-battle pose from Fates
Idle 3: Azura puts her left hand on her chest

Notable Palette Swaps:

1. Azura (default)
2. Phina (red/yellow)
3. Sylvia (green/white)
4. Ninian (turquoise)
5. Tethys (red/black)
6. Leanne (gold/white)
7. Olivia (pink/white)
8. “Mysterious lady” (purple)

Walk: Azura carefully walks forward
Dash: Taken from Fates
Damage: Taken from Fates
Jump: Similar to Palutena’s jump
Crouch: Similar to Palutena’s crouch

Normal Attacks
Jab: A three-hit-combo (5%) followed with a flurry of water attacks (1%-2% each) finishing with a burst of water (6%, OK knockback)
Forward+A: Azura slashes downward (7%, small knockback)
Down+A: Azura jabs along the ground (6%, small knockback), potentially tripping opponents
Up+A: Azura quickly slashes upwards, attacking opponents both in front of and above her (7%, small knockback)

Aerial Attacks
Air+A: Azura spins in the air once, slashing anyone in the vicinity (8%, small knockback)
Air Forward+A: Azura brings her lance down for a powerful slash (11% with a meteor effect, OK knockback)
Air Back + A: Azura delivers a wide horizontal blow (10%, OK knockback)
Air Up+A: Azura delivers a rising slash (9%, OK knockback)
Air Down+A: Azura delivers a downward diagonal slash (11%, OK knockback)

Dash Attack: Azura delivers a diagonal cut while performing a Ballerina’s Jete (12%, OK knockback), which can launch foes above her
Edge Attack: Azura stabs the opponent with an overhead jab (7%, small knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Water bursts around Azura as she gets back up (6%, small knockback)

Smash Attacks
Forward+A: Azura launches foes in front of her with a rising slash (18%, medium knockback)
Up+A: Azura stabs upwards (16%, medium knockback) as two small pillars of water rise on both sides of her (11% each, OK knockback)
Down+A: Azura slashes downwards as water cuts downward on both sides (14% each hit, OK knockback); the initial charge has water swirling around her (1% each hit, small knockback)

Grab Game
Grab: Azura snags the opponent in a circle of water
Pummel: Azura spins the water circle (1%)
Forwards+Throw: Azura pushes the opponent in a wave (8%, OK knockback)
Down+Throw: Azura stabs downwards (9%, OK knockback), which can hit other nearby opponents (5%, small knockback)
Back+Throw: Azura tosses the opponent behind her with the water circle (6%, small knockback)
Up+Throw: Azura backflips while launching her opponent upwards (11%, OK knockback)

Special Moves
B : Inspiring Song; Azura sings for 3 seconds, healing 30% of her current damage when it is completed; this is divided up among her allies. If she is attacked or uses her Dragon Vein during the song, she won’t receive its benefits.
B + Forwards : Javelin Throw; Azura throws her lance like a javelin, which can also hit multiple opponents at once (15%, OK knockback). She is then limited to unarmed combat; all of her jabs, Smash attacks and aerial attacks are reduced to water-bending, which is faster but deals slightly less damage.
B + Up : Ballerina Twirl; Azura rises moderately high upwards as she twirls under a spiral of water (17%, OK knockback)
B + Down : Stream; Azura uses water to pull in opponents on both sides of her (13%, OK knockback)

Final Smash: Dark Song; Azura raises two columns of water around herself (7%). Opponents are taken into a cutscene (based on the Opera House scene from Fates) where Azura sings her song as ripples go rapidly across the water (50%, devastating knockback)

Gimmick: Dragon Vein; Pressing B in the middle of a special allows Azura to perform a secondary attack. She can perform any Dragon Vein attack during any special, but she enters a helpless state when she does this midair.

• Neutral Dragon Vein: Azura surrounds herself in a barrier of water that pushes opponents away (10%, OK knockback) and reflects projectiles
• Side Dragon Vein: Azura calls back her lance, which twirls three times (5% each, small knockback) and instantly warps back to her
• Up Dragon Vein: Azura is pushed up extremely high by water, dealing no damage but pushing away opponents on either side of her
• Down Dragon Vein: Azura jabs upward as a stream surrounds her, pushing up fighters (15%, medium knockback)

Taunts
1: “Take your final bow.” Azura mimics her pose in her official artwork
2: “Look me in the eyes.” Azura mimics her talking portrait from Fates
1+2: “I must not lose here.” Azura mimics her battle entrance animation from Fates

Winposes
1: “I’m so happy, I could sing.” Azura’s victory animation from Fates
2: “I had no choice.” Azura mimics her map sprite when dancing, putting her lance up to the camera
3: Azura dances while singing the victory theme

Applause: Azura looks down in disappointment
Icon: The Fire Emblem series icon
Boxing Ring Title: Lady of the Lake
Star K.O.: Azura screams in a near-singing voice
Victory Music: A snippet of “Lost in Thoughts All Alone” suited to Azura
Kirby Hat: Azura’s coif

Ideally, due to being more complex then Corrin, Azura would have to be released in March 2016 (along with Bayonetta).

Spoiler: Stage: Opera House

Undoubtedly an iconic location from Fates, being featured in the game's intro. I was thinking this stage could be exclusive to the 3DS version at the time of Azura's launch, and then brought back for Ultimate.

Layout: A fairly simple layout. There is a big boat in the center, two small boats on the left and right, respectively, and two wooden platforms in between the boats. Various observing boats are sometimes seen moving in the background and foreground, and an audience can faintly be seen in the rafters. Confetti rains down whe the match starts, and sometimes water droplets flood the background while the match progresses.

Gimmicks and Hazards: After about 10 seconds, the lights will dim and the water will glow. More specifically, certain areas beneath the boats glow and a geyser of water appears wherever a glowing spot is. Each geyser jettisons the boats at either a high distance or medium distance. Any fighters launched into the geysers would be slowed down as they pass through, slowly moving up with the current before being shot back out. If a fighter jumps into the water, they slowly rise up until being stopped by a boat. The geysers dissipate after 8-10 seconds, and the cycle repeats every 30 seconds or so.

Music: I should note that, due to this stage being 3DS-only in 4, Opera House would only have two songs, which I'll highlight. I'll also list the places where each song plays between each version of 4.

1. Lost in Thoughts All Alone
   • Opera House
   • Coliseum
   • Castle Siege
   • Smash Run
2. Lost in Thoughts All Alone (JP)
   • Coliseum
   • Castle Siege
3. Justice RIP (Storm)*
   • Opera House
   • Coliseum
   • Smash Run
4. Misery in Hand
   • Coliseum
5. Alight (Storm)
   • Coliseum
6. Dusk Falls (Fire)
   • Castle Siege
   • Smash Run
7. Condemnation
   • Castle Siege
8. A Dark Fall (Fire)
   • Castle Siege
9. Past Below (Flow)
   • Coliseum
   • Castle Siege
10. Road Taken (Roar)
    • Coliseum
    • Castle Siege
    • Smash Run
11. End of All (Below)
    • Coliseum
    • Castle Siege

*I was thinking the remix could be in the style of PAII's remix

Battlefield/Ω Form: The Ω Form is the stage where Azura performs her song in Fates. The Battlefield Form platforms are based on the boats in the regular stage.

Alright, now I'm about to get into Ultimate-specific content

Spoiler: Palutena's Guidance (well, I say Palutena's but...)

: ~Youuu are oooceans’s grey waaaaaves…~
: Whoa…that’s some great singing! What’s your name?
: Oh, hello there. My name is Azura. I’m a songstress from far away.
: A songstress? So you defeat people by singing?
: Actually, my singing is meant for helping people, and only when needed. But I can be one with the water in many different ways, which I can then use in conjunction with my Dragon Vein.
: Whooaaa, that’s so cool!
: I’m glad you think so, but…I personally consider it a burden. One that makes me want to groan with increasing discomfort.
: Huh? Why?
: I’d rather not talk about it. All I can say is, I hope I don’t hurt you too much even in a friendly fight.

Spoiler: Classic Mode: Song of the Fight

(fights characters to vocal songs)
Round 1: (horde battle) on Battlefield Opera House (Fire Emblem Theme)
Round 2: on Kongo Falls (DK Rap)
Round 3: on (Live & Learn)
Round 4: (Color 8), (Color 6) and (free-for-all) on New Donk City Hall (Break Free (Lead the Way))
Round 5: x4 (Colors 1, 3, 5 and 7) (free-for-all) on Moray Towers (Bomb Rush Blush)
Round 6: (Color 8) on Opera House (Lost in Thoughts All Alone (JP))
Final Round: Master Hand (& Crazy Hand on 7.0 or higher) on Opera House Ω (End of All (Below))
Credits: Lost in Thoughts All Alone (JP)

Spoiler: Possible Spirit Battles against Azura

1. Moblin (Color 2 x4)
2. Marin (Color 7)
3. Krystal (Color 8)
4. Gyarados (default)
5. Meloetta (Color 3)
6. Caeda (default)
7. Minerva (Color 5)
8. Pegasus Sisters (Colors 7, 3 and 1)
9. Ninian (Color 4)
10. Ephraim (Color 5)
11. Hinoka (Color 7)
12. Sakura (Fire Emblem) (Color 7)
13. Garon (Color 8)
14. Tsubasa Oribe (Color 2)
15. Ingrid (Color 6)
16. Blue Pikmin (Color 4)
17. Cid (Color 6)
18. Aqua (Kingdom Hearts) (Color 8)
19. Barbara the Bat (Color 8)
20. Eddy (default)
21. I-Tetrimino (Color 4)

I don't think Azura would've mitigated hate by any means, since she'd still be another FE character, but I wanted to peep into what would be if Azura was fated for Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

Here's another character idea I've been buzzing in my head; it's...no secret that Corrin's garnered a lot of hate when they were revealed for Super Smash Bros. for 3DS / Wii U back in December 2015 as one of the last two DLC fighters. In turn, this caused a lot of hate towards Fire Emblem characters in Smash in general (especially when Byleth was the last character of Ultimate's Fighters Pass Vol. 1, but that's another story).

Bottom line; Corrin is, at the very least, mostly unique from other FE characters with their moveset. But I've been wondering something for a while...what if Azura, another important character in Fates, was the rep for that game instead of Corrin? Azura is currently a Spirit in Ultimate, but this topic is more of a what-if scenario where Azura chooses to dance on the battlefield (which, honestly, I would've preferred over Corrin).

Note: My inspiration came from an article Source Gaming posted back in 2016. A lot of what I say here is more or less word-for-word from the article.

Spoiler: What Azura would bring to the table

• A better representation of Fates: While one could say Corrin represents the game currently (as both characters are playable on all three sides), I believe they primarily represent themselves, as all moves and animations are based on their Dragon Fang ability. Fates is currently the only game in the series to grant certain units the unique ability of Dragon Vein, which allows its user(s) to manipulate their environment. Corrin, despite having this ability in the game, does not incorporate it in tjeir Smash moveset. Azura, being of royalty, is another Dragon Vein user in the game. For my moveset, she uses them as a secondary action for her specials, which I’ll touch upon later.
• Lance user: As of now, the closest thing to a lance user is the side attacks Byleth uses. There are several sword wielders, but no true lance wielders. Azura would fill that niche while also representing spear fighters from FE generally.
  • Now, I know what you're thinking; if Azura got in, it'd deconfirm Bandana Waddle Dee, right? Well, I believe Azura and BWD would still be different despite carrying the same weapons, but again, that's another story.
• Dancer: Or, in Azura's case, a Songstress, but the core function is more or less the same; primarily a support unit that invigorates adjacent units for extended actions. Dancers are genrally fragile speedsters who can dodge just fine, but could die in a second when sent too deep into enemy lines. Azura is one of the few dancers who can actually fight.

To translate all of these factors into Smash would be fairly simple; Azura is a lightweight and her overall recovery is somewhat limited. However, she’s far from weak due to the range of her lance alone. What also helps is her ability to bend water, primarily for her specials; remember when I teased Dragon Vein earlier? She can even use it to manipulate the water she's already using to (like I said earlier) perform a secondary action in the middle of a special move. She’s also very fast, allowing her to easily escape an enemy's range if possible.

Spoiler: Actual moveset

The one I did was inspired by Source Gaming, but I did deviate a little.

Intro: Azura appears from a circle of water, mimicking her battle intro animation from Fates

Stance/Idle 1: Her fighting stance from Fates
Idle 2: Azura’s pre-battle pose from Fates
Idle 3: Azura puts her left hand on her chest

Notable Palette Swaps:

1. Azura (default)
2. Phina (red/yellow)
3. Sylvia (green/white)
4. Ninian (turquoise)
5. Tethys (red/black)
6. Leanne (gold/white)
7. Olivia (pink/white)
8. “Mysterious lady” (purple)

Walk: Azura carefully walks forward
Dash: Taken from Fates
Damage: Taken from Fates
Jump: Similar to Palutena’s jump
Crouch: Similar to Palutena’s crouch

Normal Attacks
Jab: A three-hit-combo (5%) followed with a flurry of water attacks (1%-2% each) finishing with a burst of water (6%, OK knockback)
Forward+A: Azura slashes downward (7%, small knockback)
Down+A: Azura jabs along the ground (6%, small knockback), potentially tripping opponents
Up+A: Azura quickly slashes upwards, attacking opponents both in front of and above her (7%, small knockback)

Aerial Attacks
Air+A: Azura spins in the air once, slashing anyone in the vicinity (8%, small knockback)
Air Forward+A: Azura brings her lance down for a powerful slash (11% with a meteor effect, OK knockback)
Air Back + A: Azura delivers a wide horizontal blow (10%, OK knockback)
Air Up+A: Azura delivers a rising slash (9%, OK knockback)
Air Down+A: Azura delivers a downward diagonal slash (11%, OK knockback)

Dash Attack: Azura delivers a diagonal cut while performing a Ballerina’s Jete (12%, OK knockback), which can launch foes above her
Edge Attack: Azura stabs the opponent with an overhead jab (7%, small knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Water bursts around Azura as she gets back up (6%, small knockback)

Smash Attacks
Forward+A: Azura launches foes in front of her with a rising slash (18%, medium knockback)
Up+A: Azura stabs upwards (16%, medium knockback) as two small pillars of water rise on both sides of her (11% each, OK knockback)
Down+A: Azura slashes downwards as water cuts downward on both sides (14% each hit, OK knockback); the initial charge has water swirling around her (1% each hit, small knockback)

Grab Game
Grab: Azura snags the opponent in a circle of water
Pummel: Azura spins the water circle (1%)
Forwards+Throw: Azura pushes the opponent in a wave (8%, OK knockback)
Down+Throw: Azura stabs downwards (9%, OK knockback), which can hit other nearby opponents (5%, small knockback)
Back+Throw: Azura tosses the opponent behind her with the water circle (6%, small knockback)
Up+Throw: Azura backflips while launching her opponent upwards (11%, OK knockback)

Special Moves
B : Inspiring Song; Azura sings for 3 seconds, healing 30% of her current damage when it is completed; this is divided up among her allies. If she is attacked or uses her Dragon Vein during the song, she won’t receive its benefits.
B + Forwards : Javelin Throw; Azura throws her lance like a javelin, which can also hit multiple opponents at once (15%, OK knockback). She is then limited to unarmed combat; all of her jabs, Smash attacks and aerial attacks are reduced to water-bending, which is faster but deals slightly less damage.
B + Up : Ballerina Twirl; Azura rises moderately high upwards as she twirls under a spiral of water (17%, OK knockback)
B + Down : Stream; Azura uses water to pull in opponents on both sides of her (13%, OK knockback)

Final Smash: Dark Song; Azura raises two columns of water around herself (7%). Opponents are taken into a cutscene (based on the Opera House scene from Fates) where Azura sings her song as ripples go rapidly across the water (50%, devastating knockback)

Gimmick: Dragon Vein; Pressing B in the middle of a special allows Azura to perform a secondary attack. She can perform any Dragon Vein attack during any special, but she enters a helpless state when she does this midair.

• Neutral Dragon Vein: Azura surrounds herself in a barrier of water that pushes opponents away (10%, OK knockback) and reflects projectiles
• Side Dragon Vein: Azura calls back her lance, which twirls three times (5% each, small knockback) and instantly warps back to her
• Up Dragon Vein: Azura is pushed up extremely high by water, dealing no damage but pushing away opponents on either side of her
• Down Dragon Vein: Azura jabs upward as a stream surrounds her, pushing up fighters (15%, medium knockback)

Taunts
1: “Take your final bow.” Azura mimics her pose in her official artwork
2: “Look me in the eyes.” Azura mimics her talking portrait from Fates
1+2: “I must not lose here.” Azura mimics her battle entrance animation from Fates

Winposes
1: “I’m so happy, I could sing.” Azura’s victory animation from Fates
2: “I had no choice.” Azura mimics her map sprite when dancing, putting her lance up to the camera
3: Azura dances while singing the victory theme

Applause: Azura looks down in disappointment
Icon: The Fire Emblem series icon
Boxing Ring Title: Lady of the Lake
Star K.O.: Azura screams in a near-singing voice
Victory Music: A snippet of “Lost in Thoughts All Alone” suited to Azura
Kirby Hat: Azura’s coif

Ideally, due to being more complex then Corrin, Azura would have to be released in March 2016 (along with Bayonetta).

Spoiler: Stage: Opera House

Undoubtedly an iconic location from Fates, being featured in the game's intro. I was thinking this stage could be exclusive to the 3DS version at the time of Azura's launch, and then brought back for Ultimate.

Layout: A fairly simple layout. There is a big boat in the center, two small boats on the left and right, respectively, and two wooden platforms in between the boats. Various observing boats are sometimes seen moving in the background and foreground, and an audience can faintly be seen in the rafters. Confetti rains down whe the match starts, and sometimes water droplets flood the background while the match progresses.

Gimmicks and Hazards: After about 10 seconds, the lights will dim and the water will glow. More specifically, certain areas beneath the boats glow and a geyser of water appears wherever a glowing spot is. Each geyser jettisons the boats at either a high distance or medium distance. Any fighters launched into the geysers would be slowed down as they pass through, slowly moving up with the current before being shot back out. If a fighter jumps into the water, they slowly rise up until being stopped by a boat. The geysers dissipate after 8-10 seconds, and the cycle repeats every 30 seconds or so.

Music: I should note that, due to this stage being 3DS-only in 4, Opera House would only have two songs, which I'll highlight. I'll also list the places where each song plays between each version of 4.

1. Lost in Thoughts All Alone
   • Opera House
   • Coliseum
   • Castle Siege
   • Smash Run
2. Lost in Thoughts All Alone (JP)
   • Coliseum
   • Castle Siege
3. Justice RIP (Storm)*
   • Opera House
   • Coliseum
   • Smash Run
4. Misery in Hand
   • Coliseum
5. Alight (Storm)
   • Coliseum
6. Dusk Falls (Fire)
   • Castle Siege
   • Smash Run
7. Condemnation
   • Castle Siege
8. A Dark Fall (Fire)
   • Castle Siege
9. Past Below (Flow)
   • Coliseum
   • Castle Siege
10. Road Taken (Roar)
    • Coliseum
    • Castle Siege
    • Smash Run
11. End of All (Below)
    • Coliseum
    • Castle Siege

*I was thinking the remix could be in the style of PAII's remix

Battlefield/Ω Form: The Ω Form is the stage where Azura performs her song in Fates. The Battlefield Form platforms are based on the boats in the regular stage.

Alright, now I'm about to get into Ultimate-specific content

Spoiler: Palutena's Guidance (well, I say Palutena's but...)

: ~Youuu are oooceans’s grey waaaaaves…~
: Whoa…that’s some great singing! What’s your name?
: Oh, hello there. My name is Azura. I’m a songstress from far away.
: A songstress? So you defeat people by singing?
: Actually, my singing is meant for helping people, and only when needed. But I can be one with the water in many different ways, which I can then use in conjunction with my Dragon Vein.
: Whooaaa, that’s so cool!
: I’m glad you think so, but…I personally consider it a burden. One that makes me want to groan with increasing discomfort.
: Huh? Why?
: I’d rather not talk about it. All I can say is, I hope I don’t hurt you too much even in a friendly fight.

Spoiler: Classic Mode: Song of the Fight

(fights characters to vocal songs)
Round 1: (horde battle) on Battlefield Opera House (Fire Emblem Theme)
Round 2: on Kongo Falls (DK Rap)
Round 3: on (Live & Learn)
Round 4: (Color 8), (Color 6) and (free-for-all) on New Donk City Hall (Break Free (Lead the Way))
Round 5: x4 (Colors 1, 3, 5 and 7) (free-for-all) on Moray Towers (Bomb Rush Blush)
Round 6: (Color 8) on Opera House (Lost in Thoughts All Alone (JP))
Final Round: Master Hand (& Crazy Hand on 7.0 or higher) on Opera House Ω (End of All (Below))
Credits: Lost in Thoughts All Alone (JP)

Spoiler: Possible Spirit Battles against Azura

1. Moblin (Color 2 x4)
2. Marin (Color 7)
3. Krystal (Color 8)
4. Gyarados (default)
5. Meloetta (Color 3)
6. Caeda (default)
7. Minerva (Color 5)
8. Pegasus Sisters (Colors 7, 3 and 1)
9. Ninian (Color 4)
10. Ephraim (Color 5)
11. Hinoka (Color 7)
12. Sakura (Fire Emblem) (Color 7)
13. Garon (Color 8)
14. Tsubasa Oribe (Color 2)
15. Ingrid (Color 6)
16. Blue Pikmin (Color 4)
17. Cid (Color 6)
18. Aqua (Kingdom Hearts) (Color 8)
19. Barbara the Bat (Color 8)
20. Eddy (default)
21. I-Tetrimino (Color 4)

I don't think Azura would've mitigated hate by any means, since she'd still be another FE character, but I wanted to peep into what would be if Azura was fated for Smash.

I really like this idea. I would love to see more varied representation from Fire Emblem beyond just adding the newest lord every game. The moveset is really interesting and I feel it represents Fates really well. I do still enjoy Corrin’s moveset but I would have been happier with this.

 

[Megadoomer]

So I made this post on a GameFAQS thread not too long ago.



I guess I bring this up to ask: in general, what do you think about "bandwagon" picks? And how do you feel when they actually manage to get in?

Now that I think about it, a lot of my MWs (Lip, KOS-MOS, Reimu) are anything but bandwagon picks (though KOS-MOS did see a bit of a surge during Fighter5 speculation due to fake leaks, but I was interested in her well before then). I guess I really like to see characters who are more in Terry's league (or Hero, who happens to be a character I personally wanted who did make it in). Something that not a massive amount of people were asking for, and thus what not everybody could see coming, yet just significant enough that their inclusion in Smash could still be warranted. Sleeper picks, really.

Just because a character's popular, it doesn't mean that they're a "bandwagon" pick. People sincerely wanted the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo and Kazooie, Sora, Cloud, Waluigi, Geno, etc. for literal years, if not decades. If people just wanted them because they seemed likely, that would be bandwagoning, but few if any of those characters seemed likely at the time - Cloud was always seen as a long shot, the sort of "pie in the sky" pick that would never happen (and Sephiroth was seen as being even less likely than that). Banjo and Kazooie are owned by competing console makers, while Sora is owned by Disney. K. Rool hadn't been in a game, even in a minor role, in over a decade (unless you count the occasional collectible).

I could keep going, but including characters with large amounts of passionate fan demand behind them isn't a bad thing, and it doesn't make the characters in question "bandwagon" picks just because they're characters that a lot of people want to see in Smash Bros.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Unfortunately I can't really complain about "bandwagons" since the goddamn reason I played GS in the first place was people assuming Ridley and K. Rool meant Isaac was next.

 

[Trevenant]

Here's another character idea I've been buzzing in my head; it's...no secret that Corrin's garnered a lot of hate when they were revealed for Super Smash Bros. for 3DS / Wii U back in December 2015 as one of the last two DLC fighters. In turn, this caused a lot of hate towards Fire Emblem characters in Smash in general (especially when Byleth was the last character of Ultimate's Fighters Pass Vol. 1, but that's another story).

Bottom line; Corrin is, at the very least, mostly unique from other FE characters with their moveset. But I've been wondering something for a while...what if Azura, another important character in Fates, was the rep for that game instead of Corrin? Azura is currently a Spirit in Ultimate, but this topic is more of a what-if scenario where Azura chooses to dance on the battlefield (which, honestly, I would've preferred over Corrin).

Note: My inspiration came from an article Source Gaming posted back in 2016. A lot of what I say here is more or less word-for-word from the article.

Spoiler: What Azura would bring to the table

• A better representation of Fates: While one could say Corrin represents the game currently (as both characters are playable on all three sides), I believe they primarily represent themselves, as all moves and animations are based on their Dragon Fang ability. Fates is currently the only game in the series to grant certain units the unique ability of Dragon Vein, which allows its user(s) to manipulate their environment. Corrin, despite having this ability in the game, does not incorporate it in tjeir Smash moveset. Azura, being of royalty, is another Dragon Vein user in the game. For my moveset, she uses them as a secondary action for her specials, which I’ll touch upon later.
• Lance user: As of now, the closest thing to a lance user is the side attacks Byleth uses. There are several sword wielders, but no true lance wielders. Azura would fill that niche while also representing spear fighters from FE generally.
  • Now, I know what you're thinking; if Azura got in, it'd deconfirm Bandana Waddle Dee, right? Well, I believe Azura and BWD would still be different despite carrying the same weapons, but again, that's another story.
• Dancer: Or, in Azura's case, a Songstress, but the core function is more or less the same; primarily a support unit that invigorates adjacent units for extended actions. Dancers are genrally fragile speedsters who can dodge just fine, but could die in a second when sent too deep into enemy lines. Azura is one of the few dancers who can actually fight.

To translate all of these factors into Smash would be fairly simple; Azura is a lightweight and her overall recovery is somewhat limited. However, she’s far from weak due to the range of her lance alone. What also helps is her ability to bend water, primarily for her specials; remember when I teased Dragon Vein earlier? She can even use it to manipulate the water she's already using to (like I said earlier) perform a secondary action in the middle of a special move. She’s also very fast, allowing her to easily escape an enemy's range if possible.

Spoiler: Actual moveset

The one I did was inspired by Source Gaming, but I did deviate a little.

Intro: Azura appears from a circle of water, mimicking her battle intro animation from Fates

Stance/Idle 1: Her fighting stance from Fates
Idle 2: Azura’s pre-battle pose from Fates
Idle 3: Azura puts her left hand on her chest

Notable Palette Swaps:

1. Azura (default)
2. Phina (red/yellow)
3. Sylvia (green/white)
4. Ninian (turquoise)
5. Tethys (red/black)
6. Leanne (gold/white)
7. Olivia (pink/white)
8. “Mysterious lady” (purple)

Walk: Azura carefully walks forward
Dash: Taken from Fates
Damage: Taken from Fates
Jump: Similar to Palutena’s jump
Crouch: Similar to Palutena’s crouch

Normal Attacks
Jab: A three-hit-combo (5%) followed with a flurry of water attacks (1%-2% each) finishing with a burst of water (6%, OK knockback)
Forward+A: Azura slashes downward (7%, small knockback)
Down+A: Azura jabs along the ground (6%, small knockback), potentially tripping opponents
Up+A: Azura quickly slashes upwards, attacking opponents both in front of and above her (7%, small knockback)

Aerial Attacks
Air+A: Azura spins in the air once, slashing anyone in the vicinity (8%, small knockback)
Air Forward+A: Azura brings her lance down for a powerful slash (11% with a meteor effect, OK knockback)
Air Back + A: Azura delivers a wide horizontal blow (10%, OK knockback)
Air Up+A: Azura delivers a rising slash (9%, OK knockback)
Air Down+A: Azura delivers a downward diagonal slash (11%, OK knockback)

Dash Attack: Azura delivers a diagonal cut while performing a Ballerina’s Jete (12%, OK knockback), which can launch foes above her
Edge Attack: Azura stabs the opponent with an overhead jab (7%, small knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Water bursts around Azura as she gets back up (6%, small knockback)

Smash Attacks
Forward+A: Azura launches foes in front of her with a rising slash (18%, medium knockback)
Up+A: Azura stabs upwards (16%, medium knockback) as two small pillars of water rise on both sides of her (11% each, OK knockback)
Down+A: Azura slashes downwards as water cuts downward on both sides (14% each hit, OK knockback); the initial charge has water swirling around her (1% each hit, small knockback)

Grab Game
Grab: Azura snags the opponent in a circle of water
Pummel: Azura spins the water circle (1%)
Forwards+Throw: Azura pushes the opponent in a wave (8%, OK knockback)
Down+Throw: Azura stabs downwards (9%, OK knockback), which can hit other nearby opponents (5%, small knockback)
Back+Throw: Azura tosses the opponent behind her with the water circle (6%, small knockback)
Up+Throw: Azura backflips while launching her opponent upwards (11%, OK knockback)

Special Moves
B : Inspiring Song; Azura sings for 3 seconds, healing 30% of her current damage when it is completed; this is divided up among her allies. If she is attacked or uses her Dragon Vein during the song, she won’t receive its benefits.
B + Forwards : Javelin Throw; Azura throws her lance like a javelin, which can also hit multiple opponents at once (15%, OK knockback). She is then limited to unarmed combat; all of her jabs, Smash attacks and aerial attacks are reduced to water-bending, which is faster but deals slightly less damage.
B + Up : Ballerina Twirl; Azura rises moderately high upwards as she twirls under a spiral of water (17%, OK knockback)
B + Down : Stream; Azura uses water to pull in opponents on both sides of her (13%, OK knockback)

Final Smash: Dark Song; Azura raises two columns of water around herself (7%). Opponents are taken into a cutscene (based on the Opera House scene from Fates) where Azura sings her song as ripples go rapidly across the water (50%, devastating knockback)

Gimmick: Dragon Vein; Pressing B in the middle of a special allows Azura to perform a secondary attack. She can perform any Dragon Vein attack during any special, but she enters a helpless state when she does this midair.

• Neutral Dragon Vein: Azura surrounds herself in a barrier of water that pushes opponents away (10%, OK knockback) and reflects projectiles
• Side Dragon Vein: Azura calls back her lance, which twirls three times (5% each, small knockback) and instantly warps back to her
• Up Dragon Vein: Azura is pushed up extremely high by water, dealing no damage but pushing away opponents on either side of her
• Down Dragon Vein: Azura jabs upward as a stream surrounds her, pushing up fighters (15%, medium knockback)

Taunts
1: “Take your final bow.” Azura mimics her pose in her official artwork
2: “Look me in the eyes.” Azura mimics her talking portrait from Fates
1+2: “I must not lose here.” Azura mimics her battle entrance animation from Fates

Winposes
1: “I’m so happy, I could sing.” Azura’s victory animation from Fates
2: “I had no choice.” Azura mimics her map sprite when dancing, putting her lance up to the camera
3: Azura dances while singing the victory theme

Applause: Azura looks down in disappointment
Icon: The Fire Emblem series icon
Boxing Ring Title: Lady of the Lake
Star K.O.: Azura screams in a near-singing voice
Victory Music: A snippet of “Lost in Thoughts All Alone” suited to Azura
Kirby Hat: Azura’s coif

Ideally, due to being more complex then Corrin, Azura would have to be released in March 2016 (along with Bayonetta).

Spoiler: Stage: Opera House

Undoubtedly an iconic location from Fates, being featured in the game's intro. I was thinking this stage could be exclusive to the 3DS version at the time of Azura's launch, and then brought back for Ultimate.

Layout: A fairly simple layout. There is a big boat in the center, two small boats on the left and right, respectively, and two wooden platforms in between the boats. Various observing boats are sometimes seen moving in the background and foreground, and an audience can faintly be seen in the rafters. Confetti rains down whe the match starts, and sometimes water droplets flood the background while the match progresses.

Gimmicks and Hazards: After about 10 seconds, the lights will dim and the water will glow. More specifically, certain areas beneath the boats glow and a geyser of water appears wherever a glowing spot is. Each geyser jettisons the boats at either a high distance or medium distance. Any fighters launched into the geysers would be slowed down as they pass through, slowly moving up with the current before being shot back out. If a fighter jumps into the water, they slowly rise up until being stopped by a boat. The geysers dissipate after 8-10 seconds, and the cycle repeats every 30 seconds or so.

Music: I should note that, due to this stage being 3DS-only in 4, Opera House would only have two songs, which I'll highlight. I'll also list the places where each song plays between each version of 4.

1. Lost in Thoughts All Alone
   • Opera House
   • Coliseum
   • Castle Siege
   • Smash Run
2. Lost in Thoughts All Alone (JP)
   • Coliseum
   • Castle Siege
3. Justice RIP (Storm)*
   • Opera House
   • Coliseum
   • Smash Run
4. Misery in Hand
   • Coliseum
5. Alight (Storm)
   • Coliseum
6. Dusk Falls (Fire)
   • Castle Siege
   • Smash Run
7. Condemnation
   • Castle Siege
8. A Dark Fall (Fire)
   • Castle Siege
9. Past Below (Flow)
   • Coliseum
   • Castle Siege
10. Road Taken (Roar)
    • Coliseum
    • Castle Siege
    • Smash Run
11. End of All (Below)
    • Coliseum
    • Castle Siege

*I was thinking the remix could be in the style of PAII's remix

Battlefield/Ω Form: The Ω Form is the stage where Azura performs her song in Fates. The Battlefield Form platforms are based on the boats in the regular stage.

Alright, now I'm about to get into Ultimate-specific content

Spoiler: Palutena's Guidance (well, I say Palutena's but...)

: ~Youuu are oooceans’s grey waaaaaves…~
: Whoa…that’s some great singing! What’s your name?
: Oh, hello there. My name is Azura. I’m a songstress from far away.
: A songstress? So you defeat people by singing?
: Actually, my singing is meant for helping people, and only when needed. But I can be one with the water in many different ways, which I can then use in conjunction with my Dragon Vein.
: Whooaaa, that’s so cool!
: I’m glad you think so, but…I personally consider it a burden. One that makes me want to groan with increasing discomfort.
: Huh? Why?
: I’d rather not talk about it. All I can say is, I hope I don’t hurt you too much even in a friendly fight.

Spoiler: Classic Mode: Song of the Fight

(fights characters to vocal songs)
Round 1: (horde battle) on Battlefield Opera House (Fire Emblem Theme)
Round 2: on Kongo Falls (DK Rap)
Round 3: on (Live & Learn)
Round 4: (Color 8), (Color 6) and (free-for-all) on New Donk City Hall (Break Free (Lead the Way))
Round 5: x4 (Colors 1, 3, 5 and 7) (free-for-all) on Moray Towers (Bomb Rush Blush)
Round 6: (Color 8) on Opera House (Lost in Thoughts All Alone (JP))
Final Round: Master Hand (& Crazy Hand on 7.0 or higher) on Opera House Ω (End of All (Below))
Credits: Lost in Thoughts All Alone (JP)

Spoiler: Possible Spirit Battles against Azura

1. Moblin (Color 2 x4)
2. Marin (Color 7)
3. Krystal (Color 8)
4. Gyarados (default)
5. Meloetta (Color 3)
6. Caeda (default)
7. Minerva (Color 5)
8. Pegasus Sisters (Colors 7, 3 and 1)
9. Ninian (Color 4)
10. Ephraim (Color 5)
11. Hinoka (Color 7)
12. Sakura (Fire Emblem) (Color 7)
13. Garon (Color 8)
14. Tsubasa Oribe (Color 2)
15. Ingrid (Color 6)
16. Blue Pikmin (Color 4)
17. Cid (Color 6)
18. Aqua (Kingdom Hearts) (Color 8)
19. Barbara the Bat (Color 8)
20. Eddy (default)
21. I-Tetrimino (Color 4)

I don't think Azura would've mitigated hate by any means, since she'd still be another FE character, but I wanted to peep into what would be if Azura was fated for Smash.

With the stage you may as well have just linked to the source gaming article tbh if it was almost word for word lol.

 

[Perkilator]

With the stage you may as well have just linked to the source gaming article tbh if it was almost word for word lol.

Well, the article's pretty old and I wanted to put a more modern touch on it, hence why I posted everything separate from the article.

 

[Trevenant]

Well, the article's pretty old and I wanted to put a more modern touch on it, hence why I posted everything separate from the article.

If it was 2016 that would have been pretty close to Corrin's reveal... Wouldn't be as old as some other stuff considering vanilla Ultimate barely had any thing new from FE as a whole, let alone Fates but I can see what you mean.

Still really funny how all the new DLC in smash 4 got stages and everything and then you just have Corrin. Of course it's not that surprising considering he was lower on the food chain, being a first party plug and all, but it's hilarious how suitable it is solely for how many people don't like Corrin lol

 

[osby]

I want Corrin to teach me the secrets of living rent-free.

 

[Guynamednelson]

After thinking about it, I think it's the context of why bandwagons are formed that makes them now seem like a bad thing.

During the ballot era, bandwagons were formed to help characters earn fan demand, which was then translated to more ballot votes, which hopefully then got translated into a playable character. During Ultimate's DLC, bandwagons were formed under the assumption that a character was iconic enough and/or had a recent enough release to not need it, which didn't help us actually guess the DLC as we did get iconic characters, just not the ones that were being bandwagoned the most.

 

[Trevenant]

I want Corrin to teach me the secrets of living rent-free.

Crappy rent free crud aside, Corrin really doesn't live rent free to me at least lol. Just a silly little observation of the stigma surrounding him, which is what caused him to apparently live "rent free" to some

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, I’m not really that annoyed with Fire Emblem in Smash. Ike’s reveal in Brawl actually got me to try out the series. Now I love the Fire Emblem series and it’s cool to see it represented in Smash.

My only real disappointment is that Smash tends to pass over a ton of FE characters I love for the lord of each game. I personally don’t really care much about avatar characters and they’re usually my least favorite in each game. Even so, I can still enjoy them for their movesets and other content they bring. Even though I don’t care about Corrin as a character, they are still fun to play and have a really unique moveset.

 

[Aligo]

Yeah, I’m not really that annoyed with Fire Emblem in Smash. I love the Fire Emblem series and it’s cool to see it represented. My only real disappointment is that Smash tends to pass over a ton of FE characters I love for the lord of each game. I personally don’t really care much about avatar characters and they’re usually my least favorite in each game. Even so, I can still enjoy them for their movesets and other content they bring. Even though I don’t care about Corrin as a character, they are still fun to play and have a really unique moveset.

Yeah, especially when the lord's actively drag down the game they are in, like corn and bleth. Where is my bottom tier armour knight Nintendo!

 

[Gengar84]

To be clear, I rarely ever actually dislike an avatar character, it’s just hard for me to care about them personally. I feel like they have the opposite intended effect and I find it hard to relate to them. Part of why I love JRPGs is for the character interaction and development. I feel you kind of lose that with silent protagonists.

 

[Aligo]

To be clear, I rarely ever actually dislike an avatar character, it’s just hard for me to care about them personally. I feel like they have the opposite intended effect and I find it hard to relate to them. Part of why I love JRPGs is for the character interaction and development. I feel you kind of lose that with silent protagonists.

I agree with that, it is much nicer to experience the journey and interactions of character rather than an avatar, and it is always interesting to have your views challenged.

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like Robin did the avatar character right in Awakening. She still felt like a real character with her own personality. She even managed to become one of my favorite characters in that game. Even though I enjoyed Robin in Awakening, I wasn’t particularly hyped for them last game as they highlighted my other issue with avatars in Smash. I never played as the default Robin in Fire Emblem and the character and had a different name. Because of that, I feel like I still didn’t make a true connection with the character despite it being done well. Robin in Smash looks and sounds nothing like my character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Robin is one of my favorite avatars period. They're also one of my favorite Fire Emblem characters. I have almost nothing but nice things to say about them. Even the Robinsexual things make sense because Robin is actively trying to get to know everyone due to personal philosophy. That philosophy is even put to the test a couple of times.

Byleth works pretty well I'd say. Yeah sure, they're a little bland, but it's actually part of their characterization and it never reaches the point where it detracts from the experience. Overall, solid use of an avatar.


Corrin is... largely okay. I think they get misblamed. Most of Fates' problems don't stem from them. It's a lot of other characters and plot points that Corrin has to deal with. Imagine a straight man often forced to try and stay civil while talking to mentally unsound individuals and being forced to do stupid things in the plot. That's Corrin in Fates. In other games like Fire Emblem Heroes and Fire Emblem Warriors, Corrin has really enjoyable writing. Fates' writing is the main problem, not Corrin as a character.

 

[Trevenant]

I started Corrin discussion even if it was that was cos what I said was taken out of context lol. Not much, but enough for a thread that is frankly dead.. TBH site would probably be a more generalized but frankly, suitable term but eh.... Not really surprising

Just a question for everyone, who is the most forgettable smash character to you? And would you care if they were cut with that in mind? Although this is the internet and as shown before you never really know lol, but it obviously goes without saying not trying to start anything aside from civil discussion ..

Not really forgettable as in they're probably the easiest to forget and could therefore be more likely to stick in your mind cos of it but rather just characters you've forgotten existed. I completely forgot game and watch existed and, whilst I'd obviously rather he return on the basis of having all unique characters back, I can't say I'd be too indifferent to it either way other than that.

 

[KillerCage]

I started Corrin discussion even if it was that was cos what I said was taken out of context lol. Not much, but enough for a thread that is frankly dead.. TBH site would probably be a more generalized but frankly, suitable term but eh.... Not really surprising

Just a question for everyone, who is the most forgettable smash character to you? And would you care if they were cut with that in mind? Although this is the internet and as shown before you never really know lol, but it obviously goes without saying not trying to start anything aside from civil discussion ..

Not really forgettable as in they're probably the easiest to forget and could therefore be more likely to stick in your mind cos of it but rather just characters you've forgotten existed. I completely forgot game and watch existed and, whilst I'd obviously rather he return on the basis of having all unique characters back, I can't say I'd be too indifferent to it either way other than that.

I keep forgetting about Lucario both as a character and a fighter.
He just fails to stick out in large crowds.
This is most obvious in Smash Ultimate, but it's becoming true in the Pokemon franchise as well.
This is particularly weird considering he was the first Gen 4 Pokemon to star in their own movie.

 

[Gengar84]

I keep forgetting about Lucario both as a character and a fighter.
He just fails to stick out in large crowds.
This is most obvious in Smash Ultimate, but it's becoming true in the Pokemon franchise as well.
This is particularly weird considering he was the first Gen 4 Pokemon to star in their own movie.

I really like Lucario as a Pokémon but I never really clicked with its Smash moveset. As far as most forgettable characters for me goes, it’s hard to say really. I think it’s probably one of the echoes like Chrom. I tend to forget about Rosalina sometimes.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You ever had one of those days where you wonder what a certain character would be like in Smash? The news about Paper Mario on NSO got me thinking about Vivian, even though she's from TTYD...

 

[Paraster]

I started Corrin discussion even if it was that was cos what I said was taken out of context lol. Not much, but enough for a thread that is frankly dead.. TBH site would probably be a more generalized but frankly, suitable term but eh.... Not really surprising

Just a question for everyone, who is the most forgettable smash character to you? And would you care if they were cut with that in mind? Although this is the internet and as shown before you never really know lol, but it obviously goes without saying not trying to start anything aside from civil discussion ..

Not really forgettable as in they're probably the easiest to forget and could therefore be more likely to stick in your mind cos of it but rather just characters you've forgotten existed. I completely forgot game and watch existed and, whilst I'd obviously rather he return on the basis of having all unique characters back, I can't say I'd be too indifferent to it either way other than that.

Diddy and Olimar. No idea why; maybe just that I've never been into playing them?

Duck Hunt's a runner-up, even though I feel like I'd enjoy them if I played them a bit more.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I keep forgetting about Lucario both as a character and a fighter.
He just fails to stick out in large crowds.
This is most obvious in Smash Ultimate, but it's becoming true in the Pokemon franchise as well.
This is particularly weird considering he was the first Gen 4 Pokemon to star in their own movie.

Agreed. You'd think, as a big Pokemon fan and Brawl Lucario main, I wouldn't forget him all the time in Ultimate... yet I do. There's just something about him that fails to stand out.

I also tend to forget Bowser Jr/the Koopalings.

 

[Idon]

I love Lucario.
He's one of the coolest pokemon in the series.

... which is really sad how they implemented him in Smash Ultimate.
Aura is ****ing stupid mechanic.

Also no giant glowing bone smh.

 

[Yamat08]

I think the only characters I would consider “bandwagon” are the ones used in fake leaks who weren’t brought up much prior to that leak. Even then, it’s fully possible many people already wanted these characters previously but felt they had little chance before the leak raised awareness of the character. I don’t really like the term “bandwagon” because it is making assumptions as to why people want a character and can be used to put down people who want them, even if unintentionally.

Just kinda thought that "bandwagon" was the right term, though I didn't particularly mean it like that. But I hope you can see what I'm getting at when I talk about the same characters being repeat ad nauseum in pretty much every single fan roster out there. And sure, maybe it's something one would expect if a character really is just that popular, though if I'm being honest, I feel like the only reason someone like Waluigi is on a lot of people's radar is simply because they think "it's his turn". They're pretty much expecting a new Mario character with every Smash installment (and granted, Mario is Nintendo's flagship franchise), and he's just the next in line. While I wouldn't doubt that Waluigi has his share of genuine fans (especially given his prominence in memes), let's be real: hypothetically, if Smash was forced to have only 5 Mario characters (and let's be generous and discount anyone from the Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario series), do you think Waluigi would come anywhere close to making it in? Is it any surprise why Waluigi isn't already in Smash now? Seems like the same thing with Crash, really. We got Mario, we got Sonic, we got Pac-Man, Crash just seems like the next major "mascot" character (didn't particularly help that a lot of early Playstation ads made him come across as their mascot, when he was really just a third party character all along).

But what do I know? Honestly, I completely wrote off Banjo&Kazooie due to the whole Rare mishap, even when it looked like Microsoft was growing friendlier with Nintendo, and I've long assumed Sora would just be one big legal nightmare (in fact, I'm still somewhat wary about Disney having their grubby hands in Smash).

Just a question for everyone, who is the most forgettable smash character to you? And would you care if they were cut with that in mind? Although this is the internet and as shown before you never really know lol, but it obviously goes without saying not trying to start anything aside from civil discussion ..

Not really forgettable as in they're probably the easiest to forget and could therefore be more likely to stick in your mind cos of it but rather just characters you've forgotten existed. I completely forgot game and watch existed and, whilst I'd obviously rather he return on the basis of having all unique characters back, I can't say I'd be too indifferent to it either way other than that.

Some months back, I actually did sit down and try to recall every character in Smash offhand. It actually helps a lot if you can separate characters by which installment they debuted and (not accounting for Echoes) which number was assigned to the last character of a particular installment (ex. Jigglypuff is #12, Mr. Game&Watch is #26, etc.). With that said, I did end up remembering all of them...... except Wii Fit Trainer. I almost forgot about Pac-Man, too (Smash4 in general is where I really started to get tripped up, though I guess it doesn't help that those two are stand-alone Fighters from their respective series.... in contrast, it's somewhat easy to keep in mind that there're 8 Fire Emblem characters).

As for whether I'd care if they got cut...... well, I'm of the camp who wishes to avoid all cuts moving forward. But as for those two in particular, regardless of a failure on my part to remember them, I can nevertheless acknowledge how important a character like Pac-Man is to gaming, and I'm sure Wii Fit represented something to the massive market of Wii casuals back in the day, so I doubt I'd be happy even if they were literally the only characters to be cut.

 

[StrangeKitten]

As for whether I'd care if they got cut...... well, I'm of the camp who wishes to avoid all cuts moving forward. But as for those two in particular, regardless of a failure on my part to remember them, I can nevertheless acknowledge how important a character like Pac-Man is to gaming, and I'm sure Wii Fit represented something to the massive market of Wii casuals back in the day, so I doubt I'd be happy even if they were literally the only characters to be cut.

The Wii Fit series is actually one of the highest-selling game series of all time if I recall correctly.

 

[Perkilator]

You ever had one of those days where you wonder what a certain character would be like in Smash? The news about Paper Mario on NSO got me thinking about Vivian, even though she's from TTYD...

Oh, believe me, I have those days all the time.