Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, I just want to say one more thing about Geno...or any other character that is a candidate for Smash.

I think some detractors like to twist some things for those characters and say that each character has something different from each other in terms of how they get in. To me, that matters not, and I do not think characters like Geno and Waluigi, neither who have gotten into Smash, are that different, and are more so on the same boat. Even if they are, it seems detractors will try to exaggerate those difference to say a character like either of those two will not get in, or that their circumstances are different from other characters. In other words, to me, they try to over complicate the situations and comparisons for characters. But true or not, here is one thing to consider...

The KISS rule. It basically stands for Keep It Simple (I am not going to mention the fourth word, for it is at risk of being offensive to people), and with that, that should apply to characters, their circumstances and their chances for getting in Smash. Their differences and exaggerations should not be over-complicated for even the sake of arguing against a character. Thing is, no matter what differences characters have for each other, they all have things in common circumstance wise, nonetheless, and they are all candidates for a Smash Bros. game. I don't think any possible over-complicating things and exaggeration will change that. In the end, we are all Smash fans here, and I don't think a difference between characters like Waluigi and Geno, or even Geno and King K. Rool for that matter, should be used to put down things like they are both spin-off characters, or in the case of, say, Walugi, Geno and Rosalina, being non-lead characters. You can say that doesn't matter between any of those characters for some reason, but thing is; they still have those similarities, and nothing is going to change that as well as the fact that they are candidates for Smash. This is how the KISS rule should apply. Plus, many or none of us work for Sakurai or Nintendo, or make Super Smash Bros., so I don't think it is fair to say those things as if we know the truth about all that when in fact, we don't. There is so much what we think (or know) that can possibly be applied to how Sakurai chooses and adds characters. I mean, Sonic was added late into Brawl, and he did have detractors that say he would not get in. Things can be proven wrong, and so can detractors. Trying to over-complicate and exaggerate things to make it seem like what happened with other characters won't happen for other certain characters is just a stretch that is unnecessary, and not simple.

That is all that I have to say for the matter.

I'm gonna be real dude. I've been watching this whole thing from the sidelines.

This is starting to sound like you have a holy crusade against "detractors" or something. People arguing against a character's likelihood is not an insult to the character. Or to their fans. This isn't a philosophical debate, or a moral one. We're arguing over likelihood of a character getting into a video game. There are differences between characters and each case is unique. To blatantly and willingly ignore differences in circumstance is how we set ourselves for failure. It was the main issue in the old Smash 4 Ridley thread, or the Ultimate Geno thread. As a former member of the Ridley thread, we were perfectly willing to deny reality because we didn't like it, and that set us up to be laughing stocks. You're saying platitudes and trying not to offend anybody, but nobody here is offended by disagreements in discussion. If anything, bringing it up so much is starting to make me think if you think you're being offensive.

I don't want to turn this into a conversation.

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm gonna be real dude. I've been watching this whole thing from the sidelines.

This is starting to sound like you have a holy crusade against "detractors" or something. People arguing against a character's likelihood is not an insult to the character. Or to their fans. This isn't a philosophical debate, or a moral one. We're arguing over likelihood of a character getting into a video game. There are differences between characters and each case is unique. To blatantly and willingly ignore differences in circumstance is how we set ourselves for failure. It was the main issue in the old Smash 4 Ridley thread, or the Ultimate Geno thread. As a former member of the Ridley thread, we were perfectly willing to deny reality because we didn't like it, and that set us up to be laughing stocks. You're saying platitudes and trying not to offend anybody, but nobody here is offended by disagreements in discussion. If anything, bringing it up so much is starting to make me think if you think you're being offensive.

I don't want to turn this into a conversation.

Okay, first off, the offensive thing; that was unintentional, so was anything I may seemed to have had against detractors.

I don't hate detractors, and differences between characters can be UNIQUE, but to me, there are some things that do not seem that different, and are similarities, period, no matter how much people see the differences. Also, I did not say anything about denying reality, and if the opposite seems more true, not in the way you put it, anyway.

And while I should have made it clear at the beginning, there is just one "detractor" (Don't ask, please) that I thought was doing this.

It's not like every or many detractors are who I have an issue with.

Honestly, I can see the reality myself, unlike some other Geno fans, but whatever chances any character has, that is, at the end of the day, not what I am speaking of.

I am only speaking to try and get people to go easy on others, not in terms of not seeing the reality, but for having reasons they say for a character.

Now, I also should have made it clear at the beginning, but now you know what I mean.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I wish they would've made another Smash poll just so people could vote on characters they want to see in the next game. It would've been cool.

 

[CannonStreak]

Sooooooo...

If third party ITEMS were in the next Smash Bros., what items from which third party series do you want to see?

 

[SPEN18]

Late

But for more shameless plugging:

Golden Sun and Advance Wars could also bring great stages.

Everybody knows Venus Lighthouse is tailor-made for Smash.

As for Advance Wars, the stage would probably feature all the various combat units as hazards and/or platforms. It could even be a moving/transform stage that switches between land, air, and sea.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I wish they would've made another Smash poll just so people could vote on characters they want to see in the next game. It would've been cool.

Agreed. I want the newcomers for Smash 6 to be using more up-to-date info than just, whoever is left from the last poll.

With so many of the last polls toppers making it into Ultimate, it would be nice of all those people could vote again.

 

[CannonStreak]

Agreed. I want the newcomers for Smash 6 to be using more up-to-date info than just, whoever is left from the last poll.

With so many of the last polls toppers making it into Ultimate, it would be nice of all those people could vote again.

I don't know who is against the idea of another poll, but I agree there should have been another poll, myself.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I wouldn't mind another poll if the Smash fanbase wasn't the way it is.

We're just too immature to make the months of the poll fun. The results are sure to be awesome, but I'm just not ready for another explosion of fanbase activity.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I wish they would've made another Smash poll just so people could vote on characters they want to see in the next game. It would've been cool.

I remember when the Ballot was first announced, and it BLEW MY MIND that a big company like Nintendo would be willing to actually DO something like that (I think I was in middle or high school when that was going on). I didn't even care that the winner was somebody I'd never heard of at the time, the idea that they were actually willing to listen to fan suggestions (even the absurd ones) was wild to me.

 

[Arcanir]

I wouldn't mind another poll if the Smash fanbase wasn't the way it is.

We're just too immature to make the months of the poll fun. The results are sure to be awesome, but I'm just not ready for another explosion of fanbase activity.

Sadly, I agree.

The last poll was great for the data and the characters it got us, especially speaking as a Ridley and K. Rool fan. However, the voting period and the lead-up to Bayonetta's release a mess. It turned from what was supposed to be a bunch of fun campaigns for the characters people wanted to a bunch of nasty infighting that only got worse overtime, and didn't help that some of the rumors that popped up fueled the fire even more. I'd love to see what characters would show up as popular, but I'm not sure I'd like to see the fandom tear itself apart yet another time.

 

[dream1ng]

Well, I just want to say one more thing about Geno...or any other character that is a candidate for Smash.

I think some detractors like to twist some things for those characters and say that each character has something different from each other in terms of how they get in. To me, that matters not, and I do not think characters like Geno and Waluigi, neither who have gotten into Smash, are that different, and are more so on the same boat. Even if they are, it seems detractors will try to exaggerate those difference to say a character like either of those two will not get in, or that their circumstances are different from other characters. In other words, to me, they try to over complicate the situations and comparisons for characters. But true or not, here is one thing to consider...

The KISS rule. It basically stands for Keep It Simple (I am not going to mention the fourth word, for it is at risk of being offensive to people), and with that, that should apply to characters, their circumstances and their chances for getting in Smash. Their differences and exaggerations should not be over-complicated for even the sake of arguing against a character. Thing is, no matter what differences characters have for each other, they all have things in common circumstance wise, nonetheless, and they are all candidates for a Smash Bros. game. I don't think any possible over-complicating things and exaggeration will change that. In the end, we are all Smash fans here, and I don't think a difference between characters like Waluigi and Geno, or even Geno and King K. Rool for that matter, should be used to put down things like they are both spin-off characters, or in the case of, say, Walugi, Geno and Rosalina, being non-lead characters. You can say that doesn't matter between any of those characters for some reason, but thing is; they still have those similarities, and nothing is going to change that as well as the fact that they are candidates for Smash. This is how the KISS rule should apply. Plus, many or none of us work for Sakurai or Nintendo, or make Super Smash Bros., so I don't think it is fair to say those things as if we know the truth about all that when in fact, we don't. There is so much what we think (or know) that can possibly be applied to how Sakurai chooses and adds characters. I mean, Sonic was added late into Brawl, and he did have detractors that say he would not get in. Things can be proven wrong, and so can detractors. Trying to over-complicate and exaggerate things to make it seem like what happened with other characters won't happen for other certain characters is just a stretch that is unnecessary, and not simple.

That is all that I have to say for the matter.

Just so you know, this "people overcomplicate things" post massively contradicts the earlier one where you wrote a whole ass Mario RPG history lesson like there's some sort of spot designated on that basis.

If you're going to argue for a character, you can't just make any argument that supports them, even if it contradicts your earlier ones. It craters the perception of objectivity, and ruins credibility. Not the least of which is because arguing that detractors get things wrong and then detracting from things yourself makes an argument while simultaneously discrediting itself. A detractor is anyone who just vocally opposes a viewpoint. We've all done that.

Of course anyone who says the differences between Geno and Waluigi don't matter isn't going to have much credibility. That's terminally Smash bubble. It's readily transparent that you'll embrace any argument that helps Geno, even if it contradicts another argument you just made.

Here is the extent of Geno's case: "He's got a ton of fan demand, he's no longer dead, and at one point Sakurai expressed interest in adding him". That's it, that's the whole argument. You don't need to be on about SMRPG's history and talking nonsense about differences not mattering.

I know these posts make me seem like I'm coming down on Geno's chances, but it's not that. It's that this rhetoric is really, really flawed.

And finally, if I'm the sole detractor to whom you refer (which would be my guess were it not for the fact that you were already going on about Geno detractors (plural) from the beginning of our first conversation), I haven't provoked any of these last few posts of yours; I've already expressed that I don't wish to debate when the stance so consistently resets. And also, I guess, contradicts itself.

Like, we made headway on how you can't cherrypick qualities to compare like saying "well Rosalina is also a non-lead", you have to look at the character cumulatively. But if that point hasn't stuck yet, I guess it's fundamentally just not something that will be grasped, and there's no point to doing this on loop.

So, if it's me, you can stop with the spontaneous Geno posts.

 

[Wonder Smash]

My main concern (or maybe even fear) with a poll is realizing that not a lot of people voted for my MWs.

I'm mainly thinking about that SourceGaming poll from a little while back where many characters I expecting to see (such as Hayabusa, Bill and Lance, Kunio and Riki) weren't anywhere on that list. Kind of shocking. Like, do they even know about those games? Have any of them ever played them? Are they even aware of how significant they are?

I don't know how but before any kind of official poll comes up, I kind of want to spread awareness to both my MW series and maybe others that are overlooked but has a lot of potential to be in Smash (like Nihon Falcom games).

 

[CannonStreak]

I am pretty much done with what I have been making in terms of posts, but honestly, it was not just about Geno. As unnecessary as it may have been, I was just trying to stick up for others who may want to express their love for and reasoning behind a character in the future. I only found dream1ng 's reasoning against, you know, if was truthful to any degree (which I am sure it was), exaggerated. Though I was not trying to bait anyone. I only wanted to see what others thought of, in regards to what I said. I did say it was one person who got me into talking about this, but it was not for just him to respond to. I hope you all weren't offended by my posts. I just had some things to say. Still, (not limited to Geno, again), I don't think it is fair to make such extreme comparisons between characters as to why they don't matter...

But enough of my rambling, folks.

Sooooooo...

If third party ITEMS were in the next Smash Bros., what items from which third party series do you want to see?

EDIT: Just so you all know, if you do not like what I say, fine, but I do hope it is realized that it is not necessary to reply to everything I say. We can agree to disagree.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah, not particularly interested in seeing another ballot right now. Part of it is that doing it on the heels of Ult's DLC cycle would probably skew the results away from being as useful as they could be when it comes to base roster construction. Maybe I'll feel different about it as the situation regarding the next Smash evolves.
Also, when it comes to my personal picks, the ones who I feel would actually tangibly benefit from a ballot are also ones where I think Nintendo is already aware of the demand. I mean, maybe there's some off chance that one of my picks in the upper-mid tier of popularity could surprise them with a strong showing, but that seems unlikely.

 

[dream1ng]

I wish they would've made another Smash poll just so people could vote on characters they want to see in the next game. It would've been cool.

Not during Ultimate, the current roles would've affected the results too much.

Now maybe. In theory the best time is just before development starts, so it's least affected by the previous deconfirmations but before they actually start choosing the roster.

But that also requires transparency that they're going to make another Smash, and while it's obvious there will be more Smash, that's not Nintendo's style. I mean, to truly be transparent, they should also say if there are going to be cuts, because otherwise no one is going to vote for vets, but those results could be useful in deciding who to prioritize in bringing back.

I wouldn't mind another poll if the Smash fanbase wasn't the way it is.

We're just too immature to make the months of the poll fun. The results are sure to be awesome, but I'm just not ready for another explosion of fanbase activity.

I agree with parts of this, but to be fair, this will also come with concrete indication another Smash is coming, and knowing that it will result in multiple characters, and seeing how many fan favorites the previous ballot actually gave us, and not concentrating everyone's hopes onto a single presentation.

And I think all of those things will help it be not quite as contentious as some may fear.

My main concern (or maybe even fear) with a poll is realizing that not a lot of people voted for my MWs.

I'm mainly thinking about that SourceGaming poll from a little while back where many characters I expecting to see (such as Hayabusa, Bill and Lance, Kunio and Riki) weren't anywhere on that list. Kind of shocking. Like, do they even know about those games? Have any of them ever played them? Are they even aware of how significant they are?

I don't know how but before any kind of official poll comes up, I kind of want to spread awareness to both my MW series and maybe others that are overlooked but has a lot of potential to be in Smash (like Nihon Falcom games).

I don't know what would've lead you to believe anyone of those other than Ryu Hayabusa would have particularly sizeable support, they're not often discussed and scarce on previous polls.

I'm guessing that yeah, people know about Contra. But it's been sort of a c-tier series ever since gaming went 3D and its leads may not compel people as much as... frankly, less generic characters do.

Kunio and Riki... that's not a particularly well-known series outside Japan. Like it's not obscure obscure, but... Kunio definitely doesn't have the name recognition of typical popular picks. A lot of people aren't even going to know that's the River City series, and many who do know that series know the recent ones where Kunio/Riki aren't the leads.

Let's be real, if you go play River City Ransom it's not automatically gonna make you want Kunio above the characters you wanted before.

Sadly, I agree.

The last poll was great for the data and the characters it got us, especially speaking as a Ridley and K. Rool fan. However, the voting period and the lead-up to Bayonetta's release a mess. It turned from what was supposed to be a bunch of fun campaigns for the characters people wanted to a bunch of nasty infighting that only got worse overtime, and didn't help that some of the rumors that popped up fueled the fire even more. I'd love to see what characters would show up as popular, but I'm not sure I'd like to see the fandom tear itself apart yet another time.

I know this is the perception of the ballot, but this was really only right at the end.

For most of the ballot, people didn't know how many characters it would result in, nor whether it would focus on first or third parties, and in that nebulousness came hope, and from that hope came decreased hostility. Like when they announce a second pass, and not enough is known to be mad yet.

It's just that those ill-defined terms would later backfire in that it was only one character, a divisive one, and not one that seemed like the plausible winner, which came in tandem with the end of DLC and a promotional FE character. Plus some people had their hopes out of whack thinking Cloud would have to be topped, with those faulty expectations that DLC/rosters have to end on a high, which exacerbated the whiplash.

But beforehand, when we were getting Cloud and Ryu and they were dropping popular vets and the promise of the ballot giving us at least one but maybe multiple fan favorites... people were psyched. Though the excitement became a pressure cooker, Cloud helped douse it further in gasoline, and that last presentation not going how people wanted meant it erupted pretty violently.

But you can go back and see people going into other support threads wishing each other luck. People had no idea it we were gonna get Bayo and Corrin, they thought we were in store for one/a couple of K. Rool or Banjo or Isaac or Snake or Inkling or Shovel Knight or Rayman or something.

Yeah, not particularly interested in seeing another ballot right now. Part of it is that doing it on the heels of Ult's DLC cycle would probably skew the results away from being as useful as they could be when it comes to base roster construction. Maybe I'll feel different about it as the situation regarding the next Smash evolves.
Also, when it comes to my personal picks, the ones who I feel would actually tangibly benefit from a ballot are also ones where I think Nintendo is already aware of the demand. I mean, maybe there's some off chance that one of my picks in the upper-mid tier of popularity could surprise them with a strong showing, but that seems unlikely.

Fwiw, though the sample size is pretty small, the latest sourcegaming poll does already show recovery for (some) previously deconfirmed characters. Plus, given that it would obviously not be for Ultimate, current roles would be less inhibitory than they were for the ballot and its misdirect of being 4-related.

Late

But for more shameless plugging:

Golden Sun and Advance Wars could also bring great stages.

Everybody knows Venus Lighthouse is tailor-made for Smash.

As for Advance Wars, the stage would probably feature all the various combat units as hazards and/or platforms. It could even be a moving/transform stage that switches between land, air, and sea.

 

[osby]

I'm not really interested in a new ballot simply because of how the last one dominated the speculation for years and basically divided every possible candidate into "characters that scored high on the ballot (without any concrete proof)" and "bad additions".

Without any official results given by Nintendo (which they shouldn't, because it'd be an even bigger disaster), a new ballot would simply make big fan polls and therefore perceived popularity the centerpiece of speculation, and I think it's one of the biggest factors that makes Smash speculation a chore than something fun: there's no way to talk about options that already aren't in everyone's wishlists which makes things stale and eventually hostile when people want to ensure that their faves stay on top of polls.

That's not to say there weren't good sides of Smash ballot but the meltdown following every single "unpopular" fighter reveal (which, again, mostly fueled by inconclusive evidence) and the tribal fan support surrounding it soured my opinion on it, among other things.

 

[RodNutTakin]

What I think would make a second ballot more worth it is if the number of "votes" isn't the only deciding factor for a character. Not that it'd be less important, but not the end all be all either.
I recall that the previous ballot had a section where you could list your reasoning for the vote, and I feel like that is something a second ballot should put some weight onto as well, because it could help people with lesser-known or unorthodox picks give a strong case for their choice for any reason, such as if their pick is associated with a long legacy or could be interesting to see adapted as a fighter--generally, character choices and arguments that would make someone go "now that I think about it, they'd work well in Smash."
It'd also be a good divider from who is genuinely passionate about their choice and who's just bandwagoning, but that's a different set of train tracks all together.

 

[osby]

What I think would make a second ballot more worth it is if the number of "votes" isn't the only deciding factor for a character. Not that it'd be less important, but not the end all be all either.
I recall that the previous ballot had a section where you could list your reasoning for the vote, and I feel like that is something a second ballot should put some weight onto as well, because it could help people with lesser-known or unorthodox picks give a strong case for their choice for any reason, such as if their pick is associated with a long legacy or could be interesting to see adapted as a fighter--generally, character choices and arguments that would make someone go "now that I think about it, they'd work well in Smash."
It'd also be a good divider from who is genuinely passionate about their choice and who's just bandwagoning, but that's a different set of train tracks all together.

To be fair, developers are able to consider other factors on their own and those almost certainly played a role in a good amount of picks we got since. I bring this up because depending on how many people include such explanations, it may not be logically feasible to read and take into account all of them. Like, if people are encouraged to include write-ups to their votes, it may favor more hardcore fans - which is the opposite of what you want from a popularity poll.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The ballot period between April to October 2015 was the most fun part of Smash speculation. A second ballot would certainly be a good idea.

On a slightly different topic, for some characters, like Walugi and Geno, strong results on a new ballot would be the key to making the jump to playable.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I recall that the previous ballot had a section where you could list your reasoning for the vote, and I feel like that is something a second ballot should put some weight onto as well, because it could help people with lesser-known or unorthodox picks give a strong case for their choice for any reason, such as if their pick is associated with a long legacy or could be interesting to see adapted as a fighter--generally, character choices and arguments that would make someone go "now that I think about it, they'd work well in Smash."

I'd be way more annoyed than vindicated if they once again ask us why a character should be a fighter for a second ballot. The way they presented the Smash 4 ballot in both Bayonetta and Sora's reveals gives an underlying indication that they didn't even look at that section, and just tallied the best results. There's no faith in asking twice if there's not enough evidence that they considered reasoning with the fans' input in the first place.

 

[fogbadge]

I'd be way more annoyed than vindicated if they once again ask us why a character should be a fighter for a second ballot. The way they presented the Smash 4 ballot in both Bayonetta and Sora's reveals gives an underlying indication that they didn't even look at that section, and just tallied the best results. There's no faith in asking twice if there's not enough evidence that they considered reasoning with the fans' input in the first place.

why would they consider the fan’s reasoning? The idea was you voted for your most wanted and whoever had the most votes and was feasible got in

granted that raises the question “why ask for it” but nothing game developers do makes sense

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

why would they consider the fan’s reasoning? The idea was you voted for your most wanted and whoever had the most votes and was feasible got in

And that's kind of what proves my point; why offer a section asking for a reason behind a character being a fighter if all you do is tally in the end? Because that's basically what Smash 4's Bayonetta trailer implicated, despite those two factors contradicting each other. A new ballot needs to avoid repeating those event collisions.

 

[Opossum]

As unnecessary as it may have been, I was just trying to stick up for others who may want to express their love for and reasoning behind a character in the future.

This part here is where the massive disconnect seems to be.

By equating supporters with a group who needs someone to stick up for them, you are, by extension, equating detractors with persecutors. You're attributing a degree of morality to it that shouldn't be present. Detracting isn't something that should have a personal impact on others. We're talking about a character in a game made for children, and the odds of said character appearing, as well as the circumstances that could prevent it. Literally none of that should ever be taken personally. Whether you intended it or not isn't really important here; the word choice implies a ton.

Supporting a character isn't morally right.
Detracting from a character isn't morally wrong.

Support and detraction are almost always morally neutral, barring cases where those opinions are formed from ideas that aren't morally neutral.

 

[CannonStreak]

This part here is where the massive disconnect seems to be.

By equating supporters with a group who needs someone to stick up for them, you are, by extension, equating detractors with persecutors. You're attributing a degree of morality to it that shouldn't be present. Detracting isn't something that should have a personal impact on others. We're talking about a character in a game made for children, and the odds of said character appearing, as well as the circumstances that could prevent it. Literally none of that should ever be taken personally. Whether you intended it or not isn't really important here; the word choice implies a ton.

Supporting a character isn't morally right.
Detracting from a character isn't morally wrong.

Support and detraction are almost always morally neutral, barring cases where those opinions are formed from ideas that aren't morally neutral.

Well, equating detractors with persecutors was unintentional on my end. Also, I never said they were wrong on, well, anything, especiall, but not limited to, logic wise. If I were really picking on detractors, I would say they were wrong, and were really bad. While I should have made it more clear, I know they are neither.

 

[fogbadge]

And that's kind of what proves my point; why offer a section asking for a reason behind a character being a fighter if all you do is tally in the end? Because that's basically what Smash 4's Bayonetta trailer implicated, despite those two factors contradicting each other. A new ballot needs to avoid repeating those event collisions.

well it’s a good point. and I do find myself asking what was the point? but I also wonder if it would have really affected things?

 

[Opossum]

well it’s a good point. and I do find myself asking what was the point? but I also wonder if it would have really affected things?

Honestly I think it was mostly used as a way to discourage spam. If someone was using auto fill programs to spam a ton of votes from different IP addresses and the "why" sections were all very similar, they could more easily throw away spam votes.

 

[fogbadge]

Honestly I think it was mostly used as a way to discourage spam. If someone was using auto fill programs to spam a ton of votes from different IP addresses and the "why" sections were all very similar, they could more easily throw away spam votes.

i think you must be right

 

[Stratos]

All video game characters are uncountable so I don't think they will be able to look at all the characters we will vote for, I don't know about you but I leave the selection of new characters up to Nintendo themselves.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Without any official results given by Nintendo (which they shouldn't, because it'd be an even bigger disaster), a new ballot would simply make big fan polls and therefore perceived popularity the centerpiece of speculation, and I think it's one of the biggest factors that makes Smash speculation a chore than something fun

Lol, you think just cause there's no new ballot that there won't be new fan polls?

there's no way to talk about options that already aren't in everyone's wishlists which makes things stale and eventually hostile when people want to ensure that their faves stay on top of polls.

I musta missed the SmashBoards forum rule that says you can't only talk about top polled characters.

What I think would make a second ballot more worth it is if the number of "votes" isn't the only deciding factor for a character. Not that it'd be less important, but not the end all be all either.

It's almost certainly not. Which is the reason why Nintendo never posted the results. So people can't complain officially when Nintendo decides to skip over someone to add someone else for other reasons.

granted that raises the question “why ask for it” but nothing game developers do makes sense

why offer a section asking for a reason behind a character being a fighter if all you do is tally in the end?

Asking for reasoning was probably a way to sift through and discard bots.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I don't know what would've lead you to believe anyone of those other than Ryu Hayabusa would have particularly sizeable support, they're not often discussed and scarce on previous polls.

I'm guessing that yeah, people know about Contra. But it's been sort of a c-tier series ever since gaming went 3D and its leads may not compel people as much as... frankly, less generic characters do.

With many fans' love for classic NES era characters and after Konami's two other big series being represented, I don't see why support for Contra (another major Konami series from that same era) wouldn't be next. It's not an unknown in gaming and in fact, it's influence in still noticeable to this day (such as in games like Cuphead).

Kunio and Riki... that's not a particularly well-known series outside Japan. Like it's not obscure obscure, but... Kunio definitely doesn't have the name recognition of typical popular picks. A lot of people aren't even going to know that's the River City series, and many who do know that series know the recent ones where Kunio/Riki aren't the leads.

But see, that goes right back to what I said about many fans' love for classic NES era characters and by now, more people would not only know about River City Ransom but the other games in the Kunio-kun series. Also, because of the recent games, the series recognition outside of Japan has grown over the years.

However, my main problem isn't just the series recognition. It's that when people talk "video game history" or "iconic status", River City is kind of loaded with that. It didn't just pioneer the beat'em up genre but it also 4-player fighting games (it was the first to feature that). So if people decide a series should get in based things like that, then that's something that definitely shouldn't be overlooked since it predated what Smash started as (and still primarily is).

Let's be real, if you go play River City Ransom it's not automatically gonna make you want Kunio above the characters you wanted before.

That depends on the person and the characters they already want.

What it did do for me was make me a supporter for Kunio and Riki and made me want to experience more of their games. Soon, I learned more about the history of the series and I pretty much did put Billy and Jimmy aside for a long time as I focused on them.

 

[DarthEnderX]

My only complaint with the previous Ballot was that, them posting it before Smash 4 was completed caused a ton of people to waste their votes.

We know that the Ballot had no actual effect on Smash 4's roster, because those characters that came out after the Ballot ended were decided long before Nintendo had the results of the Ballot.

That means anyone who voted for Cloud or Bayonetta in the Ballot basically wasted their vote. Because they voted for a character that was already in.

My main concern (or maybe even fear) with a poll is realizing that not a lot of people voted for my MWs.

I'm mainly thinking about that SourceGaming poll from a little while back where many characters I expecting to see (such as Hayabusa, Bill and Lance, Kunio and Riki) weren't anywhere on that list. Kind of shocking. Like, do they even know about those games? Have any of them ever played them? Are they even aware of how significant they are?

See, now, I feel the exact opposite.

The 8-bit retro crowd is a pretty niche group to begin with, and the only way we can get something accomplished is when we focus on one character at a time.

I'm relatively confident that the Ballot is the reason we even HAVE Simon. And that's because the retro crowd were all focused on Simon. Now that we HAVE Simon, we're all focused on Hayabusa. But unless Nintendo does another Ballot, they don't KNOW we want Hayabusa. Because all they have is the last Ballot, where all our votes were spent on Simon.

Giving us another Ballot gives us another chance to apply the weight of our support to our next character. And the one after that, and the one after that, etc.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

My main concern (or maybe even fear) with a poll is realizing that not a lot of people voted for my MWs.

I'm mainly thinking about that SourceGaming poll from a little while back where many characters I expecting to see (such as Hayabusa, Bill and Lance, Kunio and Riki) weren't anywhere on that list. Kind of shocking. Like, do they even know about those games? Have any of them ever played them? Are they even aware of how significant they are?

I don't know how but before any kind of official poll comes up, I kind of want to spread awareness to both my MW series and maybe others that are overlooked but has a lot of potential to be in Smash (like Nihon Falcom games).

Yeah, that's the big risk of it. Where there's a ballot, it creates the expectation that every character afterwards is compliant with the expected/perceived results. Where anyone doesn't fall into that criteria, things go downhill fast. Of the characters you mentioned, Hayabusa is decently well known and decently prominent in the discourse, people know Contra but not the PCs and River City ransom is similar but more niche than Contra.

My only complaint with the previous Ballot was that, them posting it before Smash 4 was completed caused a ton of people to waste their votes.

We know that the Ballot had no actual effect on Smash 4's roster, because those characters that came out after the Ballot ended were decided long before Nintendo had the results of the Ballot.

That means anyone who voted for Cloud or Bayonetta in the Ballot basically wasted their vote. Because they voted for a character that was already in.

See, now, I feel the exact opposite.

The 8-bit retro crowd is a pretty niche group to begin with, and the only way we can get something accomplished is when we focus on one character at a time.

I'm relatively confident that the Ballot is the reason we even HAVE Simon. And that's because the retro crowd were all focused on Simon. Now that we HAVE Simon, we're all focused on Hayabusa. But unless Nintendo does another Ballot, they don't KNOW we want Hayabusa. Because all they have is the last Ballot, where all our votes were spent on Simon.

Giving us another Ballot gives us another chance to apply the weight of our support to our next character. And the one after that, and the one after that, etc.

I'm not so sure about that. There tends to be at least one retro character per game, this time it was Simon. I doubly doubt that it was because of a concerted effort seeing as how Sakurai also considered Alucard, which suggests to me that he was interested in Castlevania characters more broadly rather than at Simon specifically. Granted, the ballot could have helped him in that case, but there's no real way to say it was the biggest factor.

 

[Perkilator]

What Switch-era characters would you like to see in the next Smash? For me:

• Ring Fit Trainee
• Noah & Mio
• Raven Beak

 

[DynamicSmasher]

What Switch-era characters would you like to see in the next Smash? For me:

• Ring Fit Trainee
• Noah & Mio
• Raven Beak

Some of my MWs were already Switch Era, so I can think of a few.

• Meowscarada(I also like the other Gen 9 starters( I just find the magic cat to be pretty cool. The fact that it sleight-of-hands bombs onto people is a really good concept to me. Fire Croc and DDR Duck are neat too.
• Tinkaton- The Hammer gremlin needs no introduction.
• Noah & Mio, same as you
• The Knight/Hornet(I wonder if Silksong will be out before the next smash?)
• Aether/Lumine from Genshin Impact. The game's not on the Switch itself, but did originally come out in 2020, with obvious BoTW influence. I've actually been having a lot of fun with this game, though it is still early days for me.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

What Switch-era characters would you like to see in the next Smash? For me:

• Ring Fit Trainee
• Noah & Mio
• Raven Beak

• Pauline
• Demon King Ganondorf
• Officer Howard
• Noah & Mio
• Ring Fit Trainee/ Dragaux
• Bandana Dee
• A Gen IX Pokémon (probs Meowscarada)

Not all of these are strictly “switch era”, but they all got a huge relevancy boost for the switch. I think all of these as of now are at least reasonably likely. Maybe not Dragaux, but I don’t think he’s out of the question if they wanna do something weird.

 

[Wonder Smash]

See, now, I feel the exact opposite.

The 8-bit retro crowd is a pretty niche group to begin with, and the only way we can get something accomplished is when we focus on one character at a time.

I'm relatively confident that the Ballot is the reason we even HAVE Simon. And that's because the retro crowd were all focused on Simon. Now that we HAVE Simon, we're all focused on Hayabusa. But unless Nintendo does another Ballot, they don't KNOW we want Hayabusa. Because all they have is the last Ballot, where all our votes were spent on Simon.

Giving us another Ballot gives us another chance to apply the weight of our support to our next character. And the one after that, and the one after that, etc.

If that's the case, I could just hope that while the 8-bit retro crowd focuses on Hayabusa, some other crowd focuses on the other characters.

Either that, or if both Sakurai and Nintendo like the series well enough, they'll ask the companies themselves.

In the case of River City, there MIGHT not be much to worry about since they're already in Smash Ultimate as spirits, which could be a foot in the foot the door. Though Guilty Gear would be the most likely series to get a playable character since Sol Badguy is basically their unofficial mascot. But I could also picture another series being represented along with him and River City (with its much longer legacy, rising recognition outside of Japan, and historical significance) definitely has a chance. I feel base roster is more safe for Kunio and Riki.

In the case of Contra, they unfortunately might have some stiff competition with Bomberman. They'll need a special kind of push for their appearance in Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What Switch-era characters would you like to see in the next Smash?

TotK Ganondorf.

In the case of Contra, they unfortunately might have some stiff competition with Bomberman. They'll need a special kind of push for their appearance in Smash.

And they'll get it.

...for Smash 7. After Hayabusa gets added in 6.

 

[FazDude]

What Switch-era characters would you like to see in the next Smash? For me:

• Ring Fit Trainee
• Noah & Mio
• Raven Beak

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd love to see the Person Nodon (Game Builder Garage) as a fighter. That sounds like it could be pretty fun and creative. Would settle for a stage, though.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

My main concern (or maybe even fear) with a poll is realizing that not a lot of people voted for my MWs.

I'm mainly thinking about that SourceGaming poll from a little while back where many characters I expecting to see (such as Hayabusa, Bill and Lance, Kunio and Riki) weren't anywhere on that list. Kind of shocking. Like, do they even know about those games? Have any of them ever played them? Are they even aware of how significant they are?

I don't know how but before any kind of official poll comes up, I kind of want to spread awareness to both my MW series and maybe others that are overlooked but has a lot of potential to be in Smash (like Nihon Falcom games).

I mean, the stuff you want is kinda in the "Retro/niche" category, most people who know these characters wouldnt really participate in these sorts of polls or typically live in asian countries.

I can relate tbh. The that's the same problem most of Bandai Namco's IP's suffer from, probably why we only have Pacman and Tekken in playable roles in smash, since everyone worldwide knows what those are.

 

[fogbadge]

What Switch-era characters would you like to see in the next Smash?

oh i suppose, rex, noah, dachsbun, eiscue, hisu zoroark, howard from astral chain, ring fit adventurer, ninjara, a salmonid, maybe an e.m.m.i