Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

While it would lessen the holy s*** factor of them being in Smash I can't lie Master Chief, (and a whole bunch of third party characters now that I'm thinking about it) popping as DLC in a Mario Kart title would be pretty fun. Him in a Warthog racer would be less work to implement than him as a fighter in SSB, and with the insane numbers Mario Kart does, the DLC would do easy money for both Microsoft and Nintendo.

that reminder that there's still no new console Mario Kart or no major crossover titles upcoming

It's sad how a card game with next to no attention is somehow filling my crossover fever in my wait for another major crossover title. Like it's a card game and yet I'm watching Arthur go on an adventure though the RE8 Village, Leon S. Kennedy teaming up with Regina and roundhouse kicking dinosaurs with Ark ****ing Thompson from Resident Evil Survivor hunting down Daniel from Resident Evil Resistance, and now Cammy teaming up with Radd Spencer and her Cannon Spike teammates Shiba, Simone and Golden Mecha Arthur to fight against an onslaught of robots conjured by Sigma and 8 Mavericks leading the invasion.

Curious what game franchise do you think it should get a stage before a playable character?
We had wrecking crew, balloon fight, animal crossing, pilot wings stage before getting a playable character from their series

While I don't think a stage from a game or franchise should come first over a character, I'm okay with a franchise or game getting a stage if they are unable to get a character for reasons, like Advance Wars, Boxboy, Rhythm Heaven, etc.

 

[SPEN18]

Curious what game franchise do you think it should get a stage before a playable character?

Well, if I think a character should be playable, then I think I'd like them to be playable as soon as possible and not be treated with "baby steps" by intentionally delaying playability in favor of putting in a stage first.
But if they can't make it as playable in a particular installment for whatever reason, then the stage makes for nice auxiliary/consolatory content.
There are also several series where I'm not really invested in getting them playable at any point, but I think a stage would be satisfactory representation for them.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Curious what game franchise do you think it should get a stage before a playable character?

Gamindustri from Hyperdimension Neptunia as a traveling stage where the main platform has characters from the franchise cheering up.
Or the Peach Beach from the Senran Kagura series.
If what you want is less "horny", Tetris is the right answer.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And good thing Nintendo nor Microsoft doesn't work by "random user bias".

Halo's chances only went up for any kind of cameo appearance in Smash for a long time now. Sakurai is the only real detriment to begin with, other than licensing costs. But that's because nothing made any real difference. They got a Nintendo appearance at the end of the day, and now it's got an appearance enough to make it very easy to re-license again. There's quite literally no good tangible reason given for Microsoft or Nintendo outright say no.

Now, seeing as how Microsoft isn't willing to give BK exclusive content to Nintendo either, this does show they have limits. This does matter, and may also hurt Halo having a chance. That said, if Halo gets in Mario Kart(which let's be real, is pretty easy to see, same with it being in Smash, since Nintendo was willing to license it for a game on their system), then it does prove a lot about how licensing is extremely important. But at the end of the day, licensing costs take the most precedence. Again, if Microsoft didn't want Halo to appear on a Nintendo system, they would've denied the Minecraft bit. It's still a huge deal their flagship franchise made any kind of Nintendo appearance, and proves they are extremely open to that franchise. They aren't open perhaps to a straight-out game port, but crossover cameos were blatantly put on the table no matter how you slice it. Trying to overly think about the reasonings why doesn't... necessarily prove a thing. On the other hand, entirely ignoring context is a bad thing too.

Being Microsoft's flagship franchise, however, is really not hard to see that Microsoft wanted too much money for it to appear in any Nintendo game. Allowing it isn't an issue since they know it'll advertise their games massively. Also, keep in mind that Nintendo allowed Microsoft to make a Minecraft-based 3DS, so a hard Microsoft product being super advertised on Nintendo? You actually think Microsoft would be against the reverse? Based on what? I've seen gut feelings, not some kind of evidence to the contrary. That's why I don't see it as a legitimate issue, because it's proven to not be one. Minecraft also never appeared outside of the PC or Xbox till Microsoft took it over, btw. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that Nintendo's licensing of Microsoft exclusive content on Minecraft(which came after Minecraft appeared on Nintendo too) in general is way before BK ever could get in Smash, and even Steve took precedence. Meaning that previous Nintendo characters was clearly not a priority either way. They were a great secondary choice from the ballot of Microsoft-owned content. Besides that, there can be other reasons for a lack of spirits. We have had some credible rumors about Master Chief Collection coming to the Switch for a while now. It could be that fell through and Microsoft had tied said Halo Smash content to it as part of the deal. There's many reasons, but it's not "they aren't willing to work with Halo content on a Nintendo system" either way, as that's... as I noted, blatantly proven untrue.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Speaking of "stages representing games without a fighter" i really want the Idolasphere from Tokyo Mirage Sessiosn #FE.
There's no need of the cast from Sharp in the roster.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Speaking of "stages representing games without a fighter" i really want the Idolasphere from Tokyo Mirage Sessiosn #FE.
There's no need of the cast from Sharp in the roster.

Unfortunately, it seems like random stages are much rarer, with them focusing it on playable characters or their franchises more.

Do we have other TMSFE in Smash, like Spirits? Just curious.

 

[Quillion]

And good thing Nintendo nor Microsoft doesn't work by "random user bias".

Halo's chances only went up for any kind of cameo appearance in Smash for a long time now. Sakurai is the only real detriment to begin with, other than licensing costs. But that's because nothing made any real difference. They got a Nintendo appearance at the end of the day, and now it's got an appearance enough to make it very easy to re-license again. There's quite literally no good tangible reason given for Microsoft or Nintendo outright say no.

Now, seeing as how Microsoft isn't willing to give BK exclusive content to Nintendo either, this does show they have limits. This does matter, and may also hurt Halo having a chance. That said, if Halo gets in Mario Kart(which let's be real, is pretty easy to see, same with it being in Smash, since Nintendo was willing to license it for a game on their system), then it does prove a lot about how licensing is extremely important. But at the end of the day, licensing costs take the most precedence. Again, if Microsoft didn't want Halo to appear on a Nintendo system, they would've denied the Minecraft bit. It's still a huge deal their flagship franchise made any kind of Nintendo appearance, and proves they are extremely open to that franchise. They aren't open perhaps to a straight-out game port, but crossover cameos were blatantly put on the table no matter how you slice it. Trying to overly think about the reasonings why doesn't... necessarily prove a thing. On the other hand, entirely ignoring context is a bad thing too.

Being Microsoft's flagship franchise, however, is really not hard to see that Microsoft wanted too much money for it to appear in any Nintendo game. Allowing it isn't an issue since they know it'll advertise their games massively. Also, keep in mind that Nintendo allowed Microsoft to make a Minecraft-based 3DS, so a hard Microsoft product being super advertised on Nintendo? You actually think Microsoft would be against the reverse? Based on what? I've seen gut feelings, not some kind of evidence to the contrary. That's why I don't see it as a legitimate issue, because it's proven to not be one. Minecraft also never appeared outside of the PC or Xbox till Microsoft took it over, btw. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that Nintendo's licensing of Microsoft exclusive content on Minecraft(which came after Minecraft appeared on Nintendo too) in general is way before BK ever could get in Smash, and even Steve took precedence. Meaning that previous Nintendo characters was clearly not a priority either way. They were a great secondary choice from the ballot of Microsoft-owned content. Besides that, there can be other reasons for a lack of spirits. We have had some credible rumors about Master Chief Collection coming to the Switch for a while now. It could be that fell through and Microsoft had tied said Halo Smash content to it as part of the deal. There's many reasons, but it's not "they aren't willing to work with Halo content on a Nintendo system" either way, as that's... as I noted, blatantly proven untrue.

Sure, maybe in the future whatever is keeping Halo content from being in Smash will relent. Just as whatever is keeping movie/comic/TV/book-licensed characters might by a miracle.

But I'll still believe it when I see it.

And tangent:

There's many reasons, but it's not "they aren't willing to work with Halo content on a Nintendo system" either way

I'll just believe that Microsoft is willing to share Halo stuff in a Nintendo IP when I see it.

...not "Nintendo system".

 

[Ivander]

Unfortunately, it seems like random stages are much rarer, with them focusing it on playable characters or their franchises more.

Do we have other TMSFE in Smash, like Spirits? Just curious.

Only Tsubasa. Although it is acknowledged by Fire Emblem Heroes, where it has 5 characters you can get and you can choose characters from it for Choose your Legends.

Edit: If anything, the red-headed step child appears to be the first Fire Emblem Warriors, as Fire Emblem 3 Hopes got in FEH before Fire Emblem Warriors.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...not "Nintendo system".

...That's not how licensing works. I said exactly what I mean. Licensing to get on a Nintendo system is no different at the end of the day. Microsoft wasn't going to say no based upon that. They would've hard said no specifically to the Halo pack being brought to a Nintendo system if they actually had an issue with said exclusivity being gone. But they don't, which completely goes against your point. It's only exclusive as long as it has zero Nintendo appearances. The type of appearance doesn't matter in business. You're putting the wrong emphasis on how licensing legitimately works. They are one in the same. It doesn't matter what IP is used in what way, as long as Nintendo must license Microsoft first. But you also fail to blatantly realize what happened;

Nintendo licensed Microsoft to put Minecraft on their system.
Nintendo then licensed Microsoft to put Halo content on their system, via another game.

Want to know what the difference would be if it was a cameo, in say, Smash instead? ...Licensing cost at best depending the exact content. That's real business at the end of the day. No more, no less.

Only Tsubasa. Although it is acknowledged by Fire Emblem Heroes, where it has 5 characters you can get and you can choose characters from it for Choose your Legends.

Edit: If anything, the red-headed step child appears to be the first Fire Emblem Warriors, as Fire Emblem 3 Hopes got in FEH before Fire Emblem Warriors.

Ah, so we might have a good chance. Though it depends the direction of stages in general too. But it'd be neat.

 

[Quillion]

...That's not how licensing works. I said exactly what I mean. Licensing to get on a Nintendo system is no different at the end of the day. Microsoft wasn't going to say no based upon that. They would've hard said no specifically to the Halo pack being brought to a Nintendo system if they actually had an issue with said exclusivity being gone. But they don't, which completely goes against your point. It's only exclusive as long as it has zero Nintendo appearances. The type of appearance doesn't matter in business. You're putting the wrong emphasis on how licensing legitimately works. They are one in the same. It doesn't matter what IP is used in what way, as long as Nintendo must license Microsoft first. But you also fail to blatantly realize what happened;

Nintendo licensed Microsoft to put Minecraft on their system.
Nintendo then licensed Microsoft to put Halo content on their system, via another game.

Want to know what the difference would be if it was a cameo, in say, Smash instead? ...Licensing cost at best depending the exact content. That's real business at the end of the day. No more, no less.

Touché. I'd like a source on how that works though.

And we'll see if Xbox GS will play nice with minor Halo content. 'Til then I don't really give a damn.

 

[Wonder Smash]

If Contra enters smash I want a classic contra stage with helicopter or fortress or the waterfall.... I wanna play Contra now.

Yeah, I'd like a stage from the first Contra game too.

Also, now I'm trying to think up a good Up Special for the characters. That's another one I've been really stumped on.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, I'd like a stage from the first Contra game too.

Also, now I'm trying to think up a good Up Special for the characters. That's another one I've been really stumped on.

I made a whole moveset for Bill Rizer a while back. I’ll see if I can find it so I can share it here again.

Edit: Found it. The moveset is in the spoiler tag but I explained my idea before it.

Contra has always had a special place in my childhood. It was the only game I've ever played with my mother. We were able to beat it using the Konami code. It must have left an impression on her as well since she still remembers the code even though that was over 30 years ago.

Lance would almost definitely be an alternate outfit for Bill. The two play exactly the same in Contra so he makes perfect sense for outfits 5-8.

As far as a moveset, I've always struggled to come up with something that felt authentic, yet still fit Smash well. My original idea was to have several attacks utilize different guns, like his forward smash was the Crush gun and the up smash was the Spread gun. Recently, my brother came up with an idea that I love a lot that would be perfect. If you've ever played Contra, you know the capsules that fly across the screen that contain different power ups. His idea is that these could fly across the stage similar to Smash balls whenever someone is playing as Bill. Only Bill could interact with these and if he shoots them down, it would drop a powerup that would change his gun. Like Mega Man, his jab and forward tilt would be his gun, although Bill would also use his gun for up and down tilts and would be able to shoot in 8 directions while moving around. The powerups he collects would change his tilts and jab to the new gun until Bill loses a stock or collects a different power up. In order to ensure that he isn't overly reliant on these powerups to be a good character, his default gun would still be very useful and the powerups would just allow him to be useful in other ways. With that out of the way, let me try my hand at a complete moveset.

Spoiler

Gimmick - Weapon switching system, listed above. These are the different guns he can utilize based on Contra III:

Machine Gun - Bill's default gun. This has great speed and range but causes no knockback. This is very similar to Fox's laser
Crush Gun - A powerful missile launcher with a shorter range and large end lag. Similar to Samus' smash forward special
Homing Gun - Weaker homing missiles that shoot a bit faster similar to Samus' weak forward special
Spread Gun - A gun similar to a shotgun that shoots in a wide range of five bullets per shot but can't travel as far horizontally
Laser Gun - A very powerful short range gun that shoots a laser beam
Fire Gun - A flamethrower that acts in much the same way as Bowser's fire breath. Very powerful gradual damage but poor range.

Weak Attacks

Neutral A - Similar to Mega Man's blaster, Bill shoots straight forward with whatever gun he has equipped

Forward Tilt - Again, like Mega Man's blaster, Bill shoots straight forward while walking forward

Up Tilt - Bill shoots his gun directly upwards. Bill can also shoot diagonally in a 45 degree angle by tilting the stick diagonally and can move while doing so.

Down Tilt - Bill lies down on the ground and shoots straight forward. He also has a diagonal tilt that he can use while moving

Running attack - Bill performs a shoulder tackle similar to Samus

Smash Attacks

Forward Smash - Bill slashes twice with his combat knife

Up Smash - Bill attacks with the end of his gun similar to Samus' counterattack in Samus Returns

Down Smash - Bill thrusts his combat knife downward

Special Attacks

Neutral Special - Bill throws a grenade. This is pretty similar to Snake's move (not sure how to differentiate it).

Up Special - Bill performs a spin jump and shoots his gun in all directions in a spiral. This is an attack from Contra III.

Forward Special - Bill rides his motorcycle similar to Wario. Unlike Wario, he can shoot his gun while riding it.

Down Special - Bill surrounds himself in a force field and reflects all projectiles similar to Fox's reflector.

Aerial Attacks

Like his ground tilts, Bill uses his equipped gun to shoot in up to 8 directions

Final Smash - Helio Bomb - This is a powerful, screen clearing bomb from Contra III. This is essentially a larger and more powerful Starfox Bomb.

 

[Quillion]

Gengar84 :

I think I'd take the Inkling "different moves have different weapons" setup for a Contra protag over that item gimmick.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think remember that idea before but yeah, the whole capsules flying across the screen during the match seems kind of too gimmicky. Maybe even distracting.

 

[Lenidem]

Curious what game franchise do you think it should get a stage before a playable character?
We had wrecking crew, balloon fight, animal crossing, pilot wings stage before getting a playable character from their series

Definitely Tetris. And I think Tetris should not have any playable character.

 

[Gengar84]

I think remember that idea before yeah, the whole capsules flying across the screen during the match seems kind of too gimmicky. Maybe even distracting.

That’s a fair argument and I can totally understand that. It is pretty gimmicky but I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing. Personally, I don’t think idea is really doing anything too different than what Smash has already done in other ways. I suppose that depends on whether you’re used to playing with items on or not. Smash already has item capsules that fly across the screen. The Smash Ball does as well in a much more random pattern than the Contra capsule would. Still, I can see where someone might have an issue if they are completely opposed to items since this idea definitely borrows from what Smash is doing with items.

A simpler solution if you still want to keep the weapon change gimmick without the capsules is to use a shield special or taunt to cycle between all of his weapons. That would make Bill significantly stronger since he could choose his weapon at will rather than relying on getting a random gun from a capsule. Even if you kept the capsule idea, I kind of like the alternate switching mechanic to switch between two guns like he does in Contra III.

It all depends whether you’d rather go got simplicity or you want to make Bill feel as close to playing him in Contra as possible. I believe that if you want to make Bill as feel faithful to how he plays in Contra, he should have a weapon change system in some way, whether that’s the gimmicky capsule idea or a simpler method. Different guns for different attacks isn’t really how Contra plays and would probably limit the fun you could have with his specials.

 

[Perkilator]

Apparently Master Chief was the hotness where this guy lives:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Lionfranky]

Sure, maybe in the future whatever is keeping Halo content from being in Smash will relent. Just as whatever is keeping movie/comic/TV/book-licensed characters might by a miracle.

But I'll still believe it when I see it.

https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/1394618302475931649

https://www.ign.com/articles/phil-spencer-would-love-to-see-call-of-duty-on-switch

Keep in mind that there are more than these news to show that MS is very willing to lend support for Smash. Smash also works as advertisement. MS is interested in expanding to Japanese market, and Smash can work to accomplish that.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it’s pretty cool that two of Microsoft’s biggest characters would each make for an awesome reveal trailer battling against Samus. The first being Master Chief and another being Sarah Kerrigan from StarCraft. Both Metroid and StarCraft seemingly took a lot of inspiration from Alien and both characters have a lot of similarities that would make them an awesome matchup.

 

[Mamboo07]

Tetris should not have any playable character.

I want to be a funny block and throw hands with opponents.

 

[Aligo]

Like Steve is already in the game, what are you talking about?

 

[Sucumbio]

I think I'd main Tetris Block actually.

Edit

In other news... I loved this game back in the day I think I'll get it. Just imagine an Oregon Trail level lol!

 

[Mamboo07]

I think I'd main Tetris Block actually.

Same

 

[DarthEnderX]

that reminder that there's still no new console Mario Kart or no major crossover titles upcoming

I don't need new Mario Kart. I'm getting more MK8, and that's all I need.

And good thing Nintendo nor Microsoft doesn't work by "random user bias".

You say that, but most of Ultimate's newcomers came straight from the Ballot.

 

[silenthunder]

Curious what game franchise do you think it should get a stage before a playable character?
We had wrecking crew, balloon fight, animal crossing, pilot wings stage before getting a playable character from their series

I think a Harvest Moon stage could be cool

 

[ceterisparibus]

Halo being playable in smash just opens up the crossover possibilities to a new degree.

Want to wage console wars over xbox/sega/nintendo? Simple, just pitch MC against sonic and mario!
Super soldier vs super soldier? Throw cloud against spartan 117!
Comparing flavors of shooters? Ink and metroid your way against master chef...
Or for some bat**** insanity just place sora and master chief together for some inexplicable "how is this possible" scenarios. It writes itself to an extent few other characters can do.

 

[Ivander]

I don't need new Mario Kart. I'm getting more MK8, and that's all I need.

More Mario Kart 8 is definitely great, although a row of new DLC characters would've been nice. Also would be nice if they weren't so stingy with adding Mario Spin-off characters that aren't Wario, Waluigi or Daisy, like WarioWare or Mario & Luigi.

 

[Mamboo07]

if they weren't so stingy with adding Mario Spin-off characters that aren't Wario, Waluigi or Daisy, like WarioWare or Mario & Luigi.

Would be nice to have characters from Wario Land/Ware, Donkey Kong Country, and Yoshi series as racers which is a shame.

 

[Gengar84]

Halo being playable in smash just opens up the crossover possibilities to a new degree.

Want to wage console wars over xbox/sega/nintendo? Simple, just pitch MC against sonic and mario!
Super soldier vs super soldier? Throw cloud against spartan 117!
Comparing flavors of shooters? Ink and metroid your way against master chef...
Or for some bat**** insanity just place sora and master chief together for some inexplicable "how is this possible" scenarios. It writes itself to an extent few other characters can do.

Yeah, Master Chief isn’t among my most wanted but I still like the idea for just the potential matchups you could have in Smash. I’ve never played a Halo game so I don’t have a strong connection to the character but I admit I’m sold just from those matchups. That’s often something I think about a lot when coming up with newcomers I’d love to see. I’m not sure how many others really think about pairings like that.

 

[fogbadge]

Want to wage console wars over xbox/sega/nintendo? Simple, just pitch MC against sonic and mario!
Super soldier vs super soldier? Throw cloud against spartan 117!
Comparing flavors of shooters? Ink and metroid

No thanks

 

[Gengar84]

I just want to see more characters that have a bit of an edge to them but are still highly stylistic. I’m not exactly sure how to classify the kind of character I’m talking about. Basically, someone like Illidan, Kerrigan, Raziel, Death (Darksiders), Fulgore, or Magus. Bonus points if that character is something a little different than a standard human. Smash doesn’t really have many characters like this.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Halo being playable in smash just opens up the crossover possibilities to a new degree.

Want to wage console wars over xbox/sega/nintendo? Simple, just pitch MC against sonic and mario!
Super soldier vs super soldier? Throw cloud against spartan 117!
Comparing flavors of shooters? Ink and metroid your way against master chef...
Or for some bat**** insanity just place sora and master chief together for some inexplicable "how is this possible" scenarios. It writes itself to an extent few other characters can do.

I feel there are other characters that fit these much better than Master Chief.

1. I prefer Mario, Sonic, and Crash.
2. I prefer Cloud vs. Doom Slayer.
3. You want to talk about shooters, there's not only Doom Slayer once again, but there's also Bill and Lance from Contra.
4. I think Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers together with any third-party character fit that scenario much better.

 

[Gengar84]

I feel there are other characters that fit these much better than Master Chief.

1. I prefer Mario, Sonic, and Crash.
2. I prefer Cloud vs. Doom Slayer.
3. You want to talk about shooters, there's not only Doom Slayer once again, but there's also Bill and Lance from Contra.
4. I think Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers together with any third-party character fit that scenario much better.

Cloud Vs Doom Slayer is an interesting pairing, not that it wouldn’t be cool. What do those two have in common that makes you want to see them square off? My first thoughts for a Doom Slayer pairing are Samus, Ridley, and Ganondorf. Then there’s the Isabelle meme.

 

[chocolatejr9]

More Mario Kart 8 is definitely great, although a row of new DLC characters would've been nice. Also would be nice if they weren't so stingy with adding Mario Spin-off characters that aren't Wario, Waluigi or Daisy, like WarioWare or Mario & Luigi.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure they now fully own the Mario & Luigi stuff due to Alpha Dream going under (apparently it was originally co-owned, but I don't have a source, so don't quote me). Guess it depends on whether or not they wanna add them...

 

[SPEN18]

You say that, but most of Ultimate's newcomers came straight from the Ballot.

Actually, I disagree with saying "most."

Almost certainly not from the ballot: Incineroar, Plant, Joker, Hero, Terry, Byleth, Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra, Kazuya.

Popular characters? Some, yeah, but they're not from the ballot. Some of these (mostly the 1P ones) were legit too recent to be on the ballot; most of the 3Ps here only got any notable Smash support after the ballot. Some of these would have had to have gotten some mega silent majority votes for me to really consider them "ballot characters" based on their publicity levels as potential Smash picks during the ballot era.

Were shoe-ins regardless of ballot results (at least in retrospect): Inkling, Isabelle.

That leaves: Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, Banjo, Sora, and some Echoes (but idk how to count/weight those for the purposes of this discussion).

And I actually contest Ridley being from the ballot; at the very least I think it's debatable. He was hurt quite a bit on the ballot by his boss status in 4; and he got in on the back of popularity, no doubt, but I think Sakurai/Nintendo were going more off his longstanding, pre-ballot popularity (that we know they knew of) to motivate them to make him work. I stand by saying that Ridley probably would have still got in had there been no ballot; other measures of popularity besides the ballot likely favored Ridley quite a lot.

I also contest Castlevania being a "ballot choice" but that's a can of worms that I don't feel like popping open rn.

I would legit not be surprised if the three main "winners" of the ballot were just K. Rool, Banjo, and Sora (corresponding to one slot in each set of newcomers), with everything else just being influenced by the ballot in addition to other, stronger factors getting those characters in. I don't know if that actually holds any truth but it definitely seems to line up nicely.

In any case, regardless of your agreement/disagreement with how I categorized the newcomers above, one of the main takeaways is that I think there is a lot of revisionism when it comes to the ballot, mostly in terms of people equating "hype" 3P DLC additions with them listening to the feedback from the Ballot, which is in my estimation not true or at the very least a debatable correlation.

\\

 

[Wonder Smash]

Cloud Vs Doom Slayer is an interesting pairing, not that it wouldn’t be cool. What do those two have in common that makes you want to see them square off? My first thoughts for a Doom Slayer pairing are Samus, Ridley, and Ganondorf. Then there’s the Isabelle meme.

If we're talking about the whole "super soldier" thing, Doom Slayer fits that too since the 2016 game. Though, there's me seeing Cloud and Doom Slayer as the kings of their genres (Cloud for RPG and Doom Slayer for FPS).

 

[silenthunder]

Halo being playable in smash just opens up the crossover possibilities to a new degree.

Want to wage console wars over xbox/sega/nintendo? Simple, just pitch MC against sonic and mario!
Super soldier vs super soldier? Throw cloud against spartan 117!
Comparing flavors of shooters? Ink and metroid your way against master chef...
Or for some bat**** insanity just place sora and master chief together for some inexplicable "how is this possible" scenarios. It writes itself to an extent few other characters can do.

Actually, I disagree with saying "most."

Almost certainly not from the ballot: Incineroar, Plant, Joker, Hero, Terry, Byleth, Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra, Kazuya.

Popular characters? Some, yeah, but they're not from the ballot. Some of these (mostly the 1P ones) were legit too recent to be on the ballot; most of the 3Ps here only got any notable Smash support after the ballot. Some of these would have had to have gotten some mega silent majority votes for me to really consider them "ballot characters" based on their publicity levels as potential Smash picks during the ballot era.

Were shoe-ins regardless of ballot results (at least in retrospect): Inkling, Isabelle.

That leaves: Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, Banjo, Sora, and some Echoes (but idk how to count/weight those for the purposes of this discussion).

And I actually contest Ridley being from the ballot; at the very least I think it's debatable. He was hurt quite a bit on the ballot by his boss status in 4; and he got in on the back of popularity, no doubt, but I think Sakurai/Nintendo were going more off his longstanding, pre-ballot popularity (that we know they knew of) to motivate them to make him work. I stand by saying that Ridley probably would have still got in had there been no ballot; other measures of popularity besides the ballot likely favored Ridley quite a lot.

I also contest Castlevania being a "ballot choice" but that's a can of worms that I don't feel like popping open rn.

I would legit not be surprised if the three main "winners" of the ballot were just K. Rool, Banjo, and Sora (corresponding to one slot in each set of newcomers), with everything else just being influenced by the ballot in addition to other, stronger factors getting those characters in. I don't know if that actually holds any truth but it definitely seems to line up nicely.

In any case, regardless of your agreement/disagreement with how I categorized the newcomers above, one of the main takeaways is that I think there is a lot of revisionism when it comes to the ballot, mostly in terms of people equating "hype" 3P DLC additions with them listening to the feedback from the Ballot, which is in my estimation not true or at the very least a debatable correlation.

\\

A lot of japanese people picked joke picks liike duncesparce. I wouldn't be surprised if that is why they picked plant. Minecraft is popular all around the world. Terry is popular among Hispanics, Hero is popular in Japan, A lot of people wanted Rex, there are always people voting for a new pokemon

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For said list, here's my thoughts on them;

• Piranha Plant: In particular, the actual character wasn't voted for, more likely. However, tons of general mooks do get votes because people like them(also not a joke pick. Sakurai wanted something against the grain as is)
• Steve/Alex absolutely were popular characters, including the ballot. However, they're all also major gaming icons and didn't need the help. Identical to Isabelle's situation in terms of how easy they were to decide(differences only being that Isabelle isn't 3rd party, and she can use a character to base herself upon).
• Terry easily got votes(even if it's mainly from one region), but there's also the factor of ports/etc. Nintendo chose the character too, and even seeing it being someone as a big deal for Sakurai alone can be part of why.
• Sakurai also put a slot aside for the latest Pokemon Gen. He did that beforehand in Smash For. Ultimately, no, the ballot wasn't the reason. It's a slot thing, and likely to continue. The most the ballot would've done is just further validate the idea to keep throwing in Pokemon, and that's... honestly it.
• Pyra/Mythra probably were ballot-related, due to the massive amount of want for Rex, who was also intended to be part of it. It's basically like Castlevanina, whereas the franchise was popular, not simply a specific character alone.
• Hero, like Slime, was a very popular pick, to no surprise. Dragon Quest is somewhat niche, but it's sure as hell mega popular even then. Being that Nintendo chose them, it's not simply Sakurai's like for the series. With easily strong ballot votes, you also have factors like Square-Enix being quite cooperative with bringing over more games. This one probably wasn't due to the ballot, despite easy votes regardless.

Chosen from the ballot isn't the same as "ballot helped influence the choices"(both exist and obviously the former helps more than the latter), and being we got tons of other cameos etc. as is, including the massive jump in Golden Sun content, yes, the ballot has some very strong influence in making it clear that some plausible content is indeed popular. It's not like it's just about playable characters for them to look for. With hundreds of characters, some were just going to massively popular anyway.

 

[fogbadge]

When was the ballot again? Didn’t it end before the switch?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

When was the ballot again? Didn’t it end before the switch?

Yes. It ended a little bit before DLC wrapped up for Smash For. Albeit, most of the Smash For DLC characters chosen by then too(Bayonetta has been noted as a fairly weird case where we can't tell if the ballot had any effect on her being in the game. She was at least figured out as a plausible character with game data present while the ballot was just started in general, but even them seeing her votes could have been relevant. We don't know if she was actually already licensed and ready to go or if she was nothing more than proof of concept and those votes simply convinced Sega to say yes. We may never know the exact details. All we know is that she was a major voted for character, but also essentially "chosen" to some degree).