Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

BTW, I take back what I said about SwSh debating being the worst. IIRC, Mac vs PC is probably a worse debate.

More like console debating in general...

 

[Sucumbio]

Personally I thought sword and shield are the best switch Pokémon games

How was the "acting?"

A. Tasteful
B. Obnoxious
C. Both
D. Other

 

[fogbadge]

How was the "acting?"

A. Tasteful
B. Obnoxious
C. Both
D. Other

what?

 

[SPEN18]

I think the optimal solution is to bring back Pokémon Stadium that just focuses on battles. You can still have mini games and challenge cups and that game can be where the full dex is usable where the main games focus more on story with a more limited dex. The new Stadium could have options for all past gimmicks and the ability to allow each or not. You can have a whole separate developer make these like they did for the past games and Battle Revolution so GameFreak can focus on the mainline games.

But wouldn't implementing National Dex into Stadium be just as unsustainable as implementing it within the main series? You're welcome to explain your idea further but I don't see how this fixes the core issues with the National Dex.

One of the greatest things about Pokemon is the wide variety of favorite pokemon you can see.

The Galar Dex has 400 mons in it. SwSh has plenty of variety without any DLC, previous-gen transfer, or National Dex.

One of the great things about the series is that no matter what, you can bring your old pokemon back and see them again.

In the big picture, it's a cute bonus feature and hardly a necessity. The extent that they've allowed oldgen transfers is pretty amazing actually, but I see the loss of oldgen transfer as just part of the natural process of continual sequelling. Nobody's emotional attachment to their virtual pet changes the fact that oldgen transfer was always functionally nonessential.

There really are not great arguments for Sword and Shield having the dex cut

I already said a piece about the dex cut but I'll reiterate here that the National Dex was always a nonessential bonus feature and has basically nothing to do with sound game design. National Dex and oldgen transfer are only relevant to raw roster size, which is a non-issue for modern PKMN.

The story of Sword and Shield is awful, probably the worst in the series for when they attempted to tell a story

Agreed that the story was pretty forgettable at best, though I wouldn't characterize it as "disastrous" in the sense that it doesn't interrupt the game mechanically, nor make it unsellable to kids or even your average casual adult.

Region design

I did find the wild area to get stale pretty fast, but for just playing through the game up to the champion and catching the cover legend it did the job IMO.
There are clear flaws but I don't know if I'd say it's a total cut below the rest of the series in terms of level design.

The post game of Sword and Shield is laughable as well.

It's not good, no, but I think you're overstating the value of significant postgame content to a pretty big audience that is largely just content to play through the main part of the game, beating all the gyms and becoming the champion. For more hardcore fans, though, I get the criticism.

the games look awful

Maybe I just have lower standards but I had basically no issue with how SwSh looked.

Dynamax

Yeah I thought Dynamax was awful. I'm not going to attempt to defend that mechanic.
Some of the Gigantamax designs were kinda cool but I would've rather just seen the return of Megas.

Sure, the games sold well. But lets be real for a second: any pokemon game that released on the Switch would have sold well in its position. Arceus and BDSP also had impressive sales. Being a mainline pokemon game on Nintendo's home system for the first time was always gonna sell well. Combine that with the switch success and the fact pokemon is as big as it is, its no surprise the games sold like crazy. But just because they sold well does not mean they are good

This point is also fair.

X and Y

Hm, I thought these were some of the better ones but ok.

--

Overall, I thought SwSh were, well, fine. They weren't among the best in the series IMO, and got stale faster than a typical PKMN game for me, but I don't think I'd characterize them as "rotten" or "disastrous." I also find it hard to relate to the ire and complaints against SwSh when so much of it is hyperfocused on the graphics and lack of National Dex, neither of which I have a personal problem with.

I know I've strayed pretty far off-topic, but there are interesting comparisons to be made with Smash here. I think so many complaints about cuts in Smash or about National Dex in PKMN are just driven by raw emotional attachment rather than concern for overall design, proper evaluation of legacy, resource constraints, and the like. "But they're somebody's favorite" just isn't really an argument in any remotely practical setting, nor is it a reason to miss everybody out on a potentially superior redirection of assets (not to mention that "they're somebody's favorite" also applies to potential newcomers...).

 

[Perkilator]

My problem is that many of the new stages were pretty boring layout wise. I miss the fun platform layouts from older games like Temple, Fourside, Saffron City, Hyrule Castle, and others. A lot of newer stages felt too much like Battlefield variants, which is especially pointless given the Battlefield and Omega forms of each.

Probably to make them less complicated in terms of design, but I can at least appreciate them being different from each other in some way.

 

[Gengar84]

But wouldn't implementing National Dex into Stadium be just as unsustainable as implementing it within the main series? You're welcome to explain your idea further but I don't see how this fixes the core issues with the National Dex.



The Galar Dex has 400 mons in it. SwSh has plenty of variety without any DLC, previous-gen transfer, or National Dex.



In the big picture, it's a cute bonus feature and hardly a necessity. The extent that they've allowed oldgen transfers is pretty amazing actually, but I see the loss of oldgen transfer as just part of the natural process of continual sequelling. Nobody's emotional attachment to their virtual pet changes the fact that oldgen transfer was always functionally nonessential.



I already said a piece about the dex cut but I'll reiterate here that the National Dex was always a nonessential bonus feature and has basically nothing to do with sound game design. National Dex along with oldgen transfer are only relevant to raw roster size, which is a non-issue for modern PKMN.



Agreed that the story was pretty forgettable at best, though I wouldn't characterize it as "disastrous" in the sense that it doesn't interrupt the game mechanically, nor make it unsellable to kids or even your average casual adult.



I did find the wild area to get stale pretty fast, but for just playing through the game up to the champion and catching the cover legend it did the job IMO.
There are clear flaws but I don't know if I'd say it's a total cut below the rest of the series in terms of level design.



It's not good, no, but I think you're overstating the value of significant postgame content to a pretty big audience that is largely just content to play through the main part of the game, beating all the gyms and becoming the champion. For more hardcore fans, though, I get the criticism.



Maybe I just have lower standards but I had basically no issue with how SwSh looked.



Yeah I thought Dynamax was awful. I'm not going to attempt to defend that mechanic.
Some of the Gigantamax designs were kinda cool but I would've rather just seen the return of Megas.



This point is also fair.



Hm, I thought these were some of the better ones but ok.

--

Overall, I thought SwSh were, well, fine. They weren't among the best in the series IMO, and got stale faster than a typical PKMN game for me, but I don't think I'd characterize them as "rotten" or "disastrous." I also find it hard to relate to the ire and complaints against SwSh when so much of it is hyperfocused on the graphics and lack of National Dex, neither of which I had a personal problem with.

I know I've strayed pretty far off-topic, but there are interesting comparisons to be made with Smash here. I think so many complaints about cuts in Smash or about National Dex in PKMN are just driven by raw emotional attachment rather than concern for overall design, proper evaluation of legacy, resource constraints, and the like. "But they're somebody's favorite" just isn't really an argument in any remotely practical setting, nor is it a reason to miss everybody out on a potentially superior redirection of assets (not to mention that "they're somebody's favorite" also applies to potential newcomers...).

My logic is that we wouldn’t have one developer that needs to come up with a story, environment to explore, tons of new Pokémon, new gimmicks and ideas, while also needing to bring back every old Pokémon. If we let the mainline games focus primarily on new Pokémon with a rotating cast of old favorites, we can have a separate developer focus strictly on online battling. This other developer wouldn’t have all the other responsibilities that come with making a brand new region so they would have more time to focus on just the battling. Stadium could also just keep building onto itself as new Pokémon are released so there would be no need to keep remaking every Pokémon. So basically, Stadium would be a very long lived game spanning multiple generations that just gets updated with each new generation.

 

[Quillion]

More like console debating in general...

I guess you can say corporate sheep vs pretentious hipsters is THE worst debate, but that's so general and scattered among so many different topics you also can't.

 

[Stratos]

I wonder if they will put in future generations Kantonians forms in Pokémon that appeared after the 1st generation or Johtonians forms etc.

 

[Sucumbio]

what?

In the game. If you had take a poll on the matter.

 

[fogbadge]

In the game. If you had take a poll on the matter.

youve lost me, what acting?

 

[92MilesPrower]

All I can say about Sword and Shield is that I actually enjoyed SWSH, unlike Sun and Moon, which I never even beat. I only got up to the Battle Royale area, and I just couldn't take it any longer. I felt like I was getting 10 minutes of cutscenes for every 2 minutes of regular gameplay, both Hau and the Rotom Dex were insanely annoying in their own ways, and the story was clearly all about Lillie and Nebby, I was just dragged along whether I liked it or not. Team Skull was great, however. On the other hand, despite the obvious issues with the story, the Charizard shilling, Team Yell being really dumb in execution, no national dex and so on, I found it to be more bearable. The Wild Area and Dynamax Raids were fun, Bede being a Blue-esque jerk rather than overly edgy like Gladion was a plus, unlike Hau, Hop actually had character development, and the story actually focused on the player, not an NPC and their obviously uber-important Pokémon you followed/followed you literally everywhere. Although I doubt it, I hope SV won't have as many cutscenes as the previous 2 generations, but if it does, it better have a good story like generation 5 for it to be worth sitting through them.

 

[Sucumbio]

youve lost me, what acting?

As opposed to say....

(I fill in the va in my head when there's just text like in fe too)

 

[Dukefire]

As opposed to say....

(I fill in the va in my head when there's just text like in fe too)

Now, I want to play DQ VIII and VII on the 3DS.

 

[fogbadge]

As opposed to say....

(I fill in the va in my head when there's just text like in fe too)

well let me put it this way, i enjoyed Sw&Sh despite its flaws but DQ8 put me off the franchise entirely

 

[Sucumbio]

well let me put it this way, i enjoyed Sw&Sh despite its flaws but DQ8 put me off the franchise entirely

I thought so. I read an earlier post of yours but had trouble understanding it lol but this is clear so ty. May I ask what it was that put you off? It happens to be my favorite dq (the PS2 game specifically) and in my personal top 10 of always ever re-playable favorites.

 

[fogbadge]

I thought so. I read an earlier post of yours but had trouble understanding it lol but this is clear so ty. May I ask what it was that put you off? It happens to be my favorite dq (the PS2 game specifically) and in my personal top 10 of always ever re-playable favorites.

I just found it boring, it wasn’t bad or unplayable but i just got fed up with it. I played a fair bit through up to the bit where you finally fight the clown but that was when I decided not to bother anymore

 

[Gengar84]

Alright, I made another favorites by type image. I'm not 100% sure on a few of these but this is how I'm feeling at the moment. The one thing I think I'd change is Hisuian Zoroark instead of Zangoose but that's not an option for the image so I'll stick with Zangoose.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Personally I thought sword and shield are the best switch Pokémon games

I like some of the new things Arceus is doing, but not others.

The Galar Dex has 400 mons in it. SwSh has plenty of variety without any DLC, previous-gen transfer, or National Dex.

Yeah, but it was missing, like, 2/3rds of my mains.

My logic is that we wouldn’t have one developer that needs to come up with a story, environment to explore, tons of new Pokémon, new gimmicks and ideas, while also needing to bring back every old Pokémon. If we let the mainline games focus primarily on new Pokémon with a rotating cast of old favorites, we can have a separate developer focus strictly on online battling. This other developer wouldn’t have all the other responsibilities that come with making a brand new region so they would have more time to focus on just the battling. Stadium could also just keep building onto itself as new Pokémon are released so there would be no need to keep remaking every Pokémon. So basically, Stadium would be a very long lived game spanning multiple generations that just gets updated with each new generation.

To that end, they could just add Stadium functionality to Pokemon Home.

Now, I want to play DQ VIII and VII on the 3DS.

Honestly, you can skip 7...

 

[Chuderz]

This'd be such a great rep for Final Fantasy in Smash. It's all-encompassing for a series defined by continuous complete resets and is also somehow not generic. The chocobo alts write themselves and the little ball on the Moogles head would shift colors with slight changes to the fur tone. Oh it'd be so great. I know people say Black Mage would suit this role better but I'd prefer Vivi to specifically fill that role maybe. If FF9 got a remake there'd be a legitimate possibility for Zidane and Vivi to get into the game and I'd be all for that.

 

[Boorepellent]

This'd be such a great rep for Final Fantasy in Smash. It's all-encompassing for a series defined by continuous complete resets and is also somehow not generic. The chocobo alts write themselves and the little ball on the Moogles head would shift colors with slight changes to the fur tone. Oh it'd be so great. I know people say Black Mage would suit this role better but I'd prefer Vivi to specifically fill that role maybe. If FF9 got a remake there'd be a legitimate possibility for Zidane and Vivi to get into the game and I'd be all for that.
View attachment 353741

I agree, that'd be a pretty fun addition.

One of the reasons why I prefer the idea of a DX smash version... thing.

How likely are we to get quirky 3rd party additions like a Chocobo-Moogle if they have to justify even keeping Luigi or KRool around?

Go big! Ultimate still has plenty of life in it. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Dukefire]

Here is my Pokemon list of each type. Not 100% since I constantly keep experimenting with different pokemon to suit my team's synergy

 

[JustPlainDan]

Since everyone else is talking about their favorite Pokémon, I thought I’d throw my favorites out there, though some may change down the line (which tends to happen when I replay certain games).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I dunno. I quite liked Sword and Shield.

It's not the best Pokemon game, but it does a lot right.

Then again I'm the weirdo who doesn't like the Johto games so I guess I'm a freak.

 

[ZelDan]

I see everyone sharing their favorite pokemon, so I guess I'll join in:

If there's one thing this image says about me, is that I really like steel-type pokemon

 

[Yamat08]

To that end, they could just add Stadium functionality to Pokemon Home.

This is what I was thinking. Or hell, if they don't want anything to be graphically-taxing, just give Home something like its own version of Pokemon Showdown. Though if they did this, I would prefer it if they gave Pokemon Home some offline functionality (seriously, the way they're monetizing that, especially in comparison to Bank is another thing that really irks me about modern Pokemon....... and speaking of Bank, they initially hyped that up as THE way to store and transfer Pokemon moving forward when it first released, something that should be perfectly feasible for an online-only system, so why the hell is Home even a thing in the first place?).

Really though, Pokemon should have SOME kind of centralized hub game where people are able to use their entire monster collections, rather than forcing people to pay just to have several of them rot. Even if it were some low-budget 2D RPG with a tiny environment and graphics that could make the DS games...... or even the original Game Boy games..... blush. It really shouldn't be difficult to implement this in conjunction with the mainline games that now feature 3D open worlds in exchange for smaller dexes.

 

[ZelDan]

As for SwSh, eh, they were alright. Not great, but not bad. Dexit aside, SwSh were largely just your typical Pokemon adventure, for better and worse.

Some things I do appreciate about the games though, are how they handled gyms. It was cool how they were made more sporty and turned into a spectator sport of sorts, and how the music even captured this. As a sucker for customization, I also liked the addition of trainer cards that you could personalize and change its design and the picture of yourself and whatnot. Also SwSh is probably up there in terms of music for the Pokemon franchise for me.

 

[SPEN18]

I really like steel-type pokemon

Well, it is objectively one of the best types, if not the best.

Some things I do appreciate about the games though, are how they handled gyms. It was cool how they were made more sporty and turned into a spectator sport of sorts, and how the music even captured this

It is a little thing but yeah that also was not lost on me and I liked it.

--

My logic is that we wouldn’t have one developer that needs to come up with a story, environment to explore, tons of new Pokémon, new gimmicks and ideas, while also needing to bring back every old Pokémon. If we let the mainline games focus primarily on new Pokémon with a rotating cast of old favorites, we can have a separate developer focus strictly on online battling. This other developer wouldn’t have all the other responsibilities that come with making a brand new region so they would have more time to focus on just the battling. Stadium could also just keep building onto itself as new Pokémon are released so there would be no need to keep remaking every Pokémon. So basically, Stadium would be a very long lived game spanning multiple generations that just gets updated with each new generation.

So hiring a separate company just to make a truckton of animated 3D models, presumably just porting over the already established battle mechanics?

The models would still probably need pretty big makeovers every so many years or else it's going to start to look outdated.

 

[fogbadge]

So masuda is leaving game freak

 

[Shroob]

If nothing else about Sword and Shield



Can we all agree that the 'plot' was terrible and Chairman Rose made for an awful villain?



Say what you will about Pokemon games and plots, but at least the evil teams had immediate goals and grasps for power one could understand(Team Flare ****ing sucks tho). Team Rocket in Gen 1 felt like a legit threat due to the fact they were everywhere, had their hands in everything, and weren't above brutality that bordered on sadism. Team Aqua and Team Magma were both Eco-terrorists who had noble goals, but were wholly misguided. Team Galatic was lead by a nihilist with an iron fist. Team Plasma was basically a cult that paraded around as a pro-Pokemon advocate group, and went full on terrorist in BW2. Team Flare were nazis.... really dumb nazis, but nazis. Team Skull were flunkies, and while not threatening, were really, really fun. Team Yell... wasn't the evil team, and were frankly a worse Team Skull. Macro Cosmos was the evil 'team', and not even, they were more like the Aether Foundation.


Chairman Rose lost his **** over something that would happen in literally a thousand years, something he nor at least 9 of his descendants would need to worry about. Everything he does in the plot in regards to his scheme is ****ing illogical, rash, and just, dare I say, ****ing stupid beyond belief.



I would understand if the issue was in like, 10 years.


But a ****ING THOUSAND? BRO, C'MON.


And then Swordbert and Shieldbert and..... god why does his hair look like a you-know-what. Who thought this was a good design?

 

[fogbadge]

If nothing else about Sword and Shield



Can we all agree that the 'plot' was terrible and Chairman Rose made for an awful villain?



Say what you will about Pokemon games and plots, but at least the evil teams had immediate goals and grasps for power one could understand(Team Flare ****ing sucks tho). Team Rocket in Gen 1 felt like a legit threat due to the fact they were everywhere, had their hands in everything, and weren't above brutality that bordered on sadism. Team Aqua and Team Magma were both Eco-terrorists who had noble goals, but were wholly misguided. Team Galatic was lead by a nihilist with an iron fist. Team Plasma was basically a cult that paraded around as a pro-Pokemon advocate group, and went full on terrorist in BW2. Team Flare were nazis.... really dumb nazis, but nazis. Team Skull were flunkies, and while not threatening, were really, really fun. Team Yell... wasn't the evil team, and were frankly a worse Team Skull. Macro Cosmos was the evil 'team', and not even, they were more like the Aether Foundation.


Chairman Rose lost his **** over something that would happen in literally a thousand years, something he nor at least 9 of his descendants would need to worry about. Everything he does in the plot in regards to his scheme is ****ing illogical, rash, and just, dare I say, ****ing stupid beyond belief.



I would understand if the issue was in like, 10 years.


But a ****ING THOUSAND? BRO, C'MON.


And then Swordbert and Shieldbert and..... god why does his hair look like a you-know-what. Who thought this was a good design?

you thought team rocket were a threat? The gangsters who were constantly beaten and humiliated by a ten year old?

they didn’t even have a consistent plot

 

[Gengar84]

Well, it is objectively one of the best types, if not the best.



It is a little thing but yeah that also was not lost on me and I liked it.

--



So hiring a separate company just to make a truckton of animated 3D models, presumably just porting over the already established battle mechanics?

The models would still probably need pretty big makeovers every so many years or else it's going to start to look outdated.

They already did that with Pokémon Stadium 1 and 2 with Hal and Battle Revolution with Genius Sonority. It’s not like this would be some radical change.

 

[Stratos]

When the Steel and Dark types appeared in 2nd generation, then I assumed that in the future the Light type would also appear, but I was wrong and instead the Fairy type appeared in 6th generation. Now I can not imagine another type.

 

[Shroob]

you thought team rocket were a threat? The gangsters who were constantly beaten and humiliated by a ten year old?

they didn’t even have a consistent plot

Narrative and gameplay difference here. Sure, it's easy to downplay any evil team because "We go in and beat them, gg ez", but looking at what Team Rocket did before Red got involved?


Owning the Celadon Game Corner, basically fueling their crime ring from gambling money, which considering the Game Corner was one of the major draws of Celadon, was an extremely profitable endeavor for them.

Occupied Saffron City and almost took over Silph, Kanto's biggest and arguably most important business due to it being the company that manufactures Pokeballs in the region.

Partook in petty things like theft, but also Pokemon smuggling, stealing, and straight up murder.

And while it's never mentioned in the in-game canon, it's possible that Mewtwo's creation was funded by them as well.




Like, by Gen 2 they were extremely pathetic sure, but in Gen 1? They basically had Kanto under their thumb, even Giovanni had reached a very high ranking position of power in Kanto by being a Gym Leader. Until Red came along, they basically had Kanto as their own. Team Rocket's biggest issue is they're Gen 1. Evil Teams have much more fleshed out and visible acts of aggression and motivations nowadays. A lot of Team Rocket's deals are either told to you, or done in passing, with only their two biggest that have a direct impact on you the player being Saffron/Silph and the whole murder deal.

 

[fogbadge]

And on the subject of favourite Pokémon by type

rock: sudowodo
water: samurott
electric: zebstrika
grass: tangrowth
poison: galar weezing
psychic: xatu
fire: typhlosion
ground: palosand
flying: let’s say tropius
bug: vikavolt
normal: aipom
ghost: chandelure
fighting: hawlucha
steel: klinklang
ice: all of them/eiscue
dragon: goodra probably
dark: alolan muk
fairy: klefki/slurpuff

Narrative and gameplay difference here. Sure, it's easy to downplay any evil team because "We go in and beat them, gg ez", but looking at what Team Rocket did before Red got involved?


Owning the Celadon Game Corner, basically fueling their crime ring from gambling money, which considering the Game Corner was one of the major draws of Celadon, was an extremely profitable endeavor for them.

Occupied Saffron City and almost took over Silph, Kanto's biggest and arguably most important business due to it being the company that manufactures Pokeballs in the region.

Partook in petty things like theft, but also Pokemon smuggling, stealing, and straight up murder.

And while it's never mentioned in the in-game canon, it's possible that Mewtwo's creation was funded by them as well.




Like, by Gen 2 they were extremely pathetic sure, but in Gen 1? They basically had Kanto under their thumb, even Giovanni had reached a very high ranking position of power in Kanto by being a Gym Leader. Until Red came along, they basically had Kanto as their own. Team Rocket's biggest issue is they're Gen 1. Evil Teams have much more fleshed out and visible acts of aggression and motivations nowadays. A lot of Team Rocket's deals are either told to you, or done in passing, with only their two biggest that have a direct impact on you the player being Saffron/Silph and the whole murder deal.

yeah they took over silph co to steal a master ball. Their evil scheme was just being evil. Everyone who came after them had far more evil plan that would have resulted in untold death and devastation which puts them far ahead of running a casino

 

[Shroob]

And on the subject of favourite Pokémon by type

rock: sudowodo
water: samurott
electric: zebstrika
grass: tangrowth
poison: galar weezing
psychic: xatu
fire: typhlosion
ground: palosand
flying: let’s say tropius
bug: vikavolt
normal: aipom
ghost: chandelure
fighting: hawlucha
steel: klinklang
ice: all of them/eiscue
dragon: goodra probably
dark: alolan muk
fairy: klefki/slurpuff



yeah they took over silph co to steal a master ball. Their evil scheme was just being evil. Everyone who came after them had far more evil plan that would have resulted in untold death and devastation which puts them far ahead of running a casino

I mean, I don't deny that.

They're the first evil team, They're the ones that every other team is based off of. But that doesn't downplay their threat. The issue is, They're the first. Gen 1 has poopoo storytelling, and every remake of Kanto is too afraid of going too out of their comfort zone and add to the existing story. LGPE is honestly the game that added the most to Gen 1's story, and even those additions were minor at best. I'm not counting the Sevii Islands because they don't at all change the narrative of FRLG, they're entirely bonus content that has no bearing at all on the main "Kanto" storyline told over and over again. If anything, they add more to Johto due to the Johto allusions.

Likewise, for example, Gen 3. Team Aqua and Magma are both bumbling idiots. Misguided with good intentions, but bumbling idiots that play them up as being EVIL until after they wake up the Legendary Pokemon, and then spill their stupid all over.

ORAS wasn't afraid to shake up the established Gen3 story and actually fleshed them out as characters. One note characters like Archie, Maxie, etc were give nuance and depth, something they never really had before.


That's Gen1's issue. It's soo scared of retelling its plot in a way that changes enough to have an actual, meaningful change. Almost every remake of Gen1 is just "Red and Blue, but with nicer graphics this time."


But regardless, I've rambled enough. Are Team Rocket as much of a threat as say, Team Plasma? No, but in the context of Kanto, yeah, they are one, it's just the stakes are overall lower, and the story telling for Gen 1 is stuck in the Gameboy era.

 

[Stratos]

There were evil teams in Pokémon games that were not in the core series, such as for example team Snagem and Cipher from the Pokémon Colosseum and the sequel to Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness which had to do with Shadows Pokémon.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Still on Pokémon? My god. Anyways, to hopefully steer away from Pokémon a tiny bit, who would y’all choose for every Third Party Company in Smash if they were to get another rep?

 

[fogbadge]

I mean, I don't deny that.

They're the first evil team, They're the ones that every other team is based off of. But that doesn't downplay their threat. The issue is, They're the first. Gen 1 has poopoo storytelling, and every remake of Kanto is too afraid of going too out of their comfort zone and add to the existing story. LGPE is honestly the game that added the most to Gen 1's story, and even those additions were minor at best. I'm not counting the Sevii Islands because they don't at all change the narrative of FRLG, they're entirely bonus content that has no bearing at all on the main "Kanto" storyline told over and over again. If anything, they add more to Johto due to the Johto allusions.

Likewise, for example, Gen 3. Team Aqua and Magma are both bumbling idiots. Misguided with good intentions, but bumbling idiots that play them up as being EVIL until after they wake up the Legendary Pokemon, and then spill their stupid all over.

ORAS wasn't afraid to shake up the established Gen3 story and actually fleshed them out as characters. One note characters like Archie, Maxie, etc were give nuance and depth, something they never really had before.


That's Gen1's issue. It's soo scared of retelling its plot in a way that changes enough to have an actual, meaningful change. Almost every remake of Gen1 is just "Red and Blue, but with nicer graphics this time."


But regardless, I've rambled enough. Are Team Rocket as much of a threat as say, Team Plasma? No, but in the context of Kanto, yeah, they are one, it's just the stakes are overall lower, and the story telling for Gen 1 is stuck in the Gameboy era.

perhaps not but it does make them seem relatively less evil compared to those who came after

 

[Gengar84]

Still on Pokémon? My god. Anyways, to hopefully steer away from Pokémon a tiny bit, who would y’all choose for every Third Party Company in Smash if they were to get another rep?

Square-Enix - Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Microsoft - Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads)
Sega - Knuckles (Sonic)
Capcom - Zero (Mega Man X)
Konami - Bill Rizer/Lance Bean (Contra)
Disney - Xemnas (Kingdom Hearts)
Bandai-Namco - Alphen and Shionne (Tales)

I don’t know enough about SNK to pick a most wanted. I’ll say Geese Howard for now because he’s one of the only other characters I know.

 

[fogbadge]

Well there’s our version mascots for this gen

koraidon for scarlet and miraidon for vi

- YouTube

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others are, pawmi the electric type, lechonk, the normal and smoliv a grass/normal