Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’m not sure how to tie that into Smash so I’ll ask a question about my most wanted female character, Jinx. Riot and Fortiche are famous for their music videos and getting established artists like Imagine Dragons and Linkin Park to write songs specifically for their shows or cinematic game trailers. I imagine the licensing for those would be pretty hard even if they were made specifically for their game and show. I wonder how Smash would handle the music assuming Jinx made it in.

Stuff for the shows and game trailers probably won't be used anyway, instead sticking to what's in the games themselves. For League of Legends I'd expect to see character themes from it and as well as a couple of tracks each from some of the Riot Forge games, and not songs like Still Here, Bite Marks, or anything KDA related.

 

[Gengar84]

Stuff for the shows and game trailers probably won't be used anyway, instead sticking to what's in the games themselves. For League of Legends I'd expect to see character themes from it and as well as a couple of tracks each from some of the Riot Forge games, and not songs like Still Here, Bite Marks, or anything KDA related.

I think you’re probably right. While those songs would be awesome, it’s probably too much work for Nintendo to work out the licensing and likely too expensive as well. I’ve got a little bit of hope we could get a few more thanks to Sephiroth coming with Advent Children music so maybe we could do the same with Arcane. I feel like they’d at least try to get “Get Jinxed” if nothing else. If not, songs are the easiest thing to mod into Smash anyways so I can probably get all those songs eventually through modding.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I think veterans shouldn't get an entire moveset rehaul unless it's really, really justified, personally. I think changing a few moves for some veterans is enough, like it's always been done.

I think I want them to take it a step further so we don't end up with Mario still having Cape and Fludd for primary specials or Ganon being Falcondorf. While there are probably only around 10 or so characters who I hope are relatively different between games, I think Ultimate dropped the ball on updating some of the cast, although the needle shifting with new releases hasn't helped it either.

 

[Megadoomer]

Smash Bros needs a Tony Hawk rep, tbh.

I cracked up laughing when this guy made an appearance:

 

[HyperSomari64]

Smash Bros needs a Tony Hawk rep, tbh.

kinda wish Spider-Man was DLC in 1+2.

 

[Louie G.]

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

The plainest way I can answer this is there's a reason that Fox and Marth have been iterated on multiple times over.

IMO other characters in the conversation are Captain Falcon, Peach, Wolf and Incineroar to be honest. Maybe K. Rool as well because even though he's not the most 'balanced' character, I think his moveset is exactly what it should be and more. One of the most transformative portrayals in Smash and still feels like himself. We can give or take Toad on Peach but I wouldn't really change anything else about her.

What the success of characters like Fox / Marth / Falcon tells me is I'd honestly love to see another character built from scratch. Incineroar is probably the closest to this ground-up archetypical design that we've seen in a while and it's part of why I really like him.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Oh I see. I would have assumed it was the other way around since Eddie is a more normal sounding name for a person while Zato-1 would have made sense for a shadow creature. I know nothing about his lore, I just enjoyed playing him.

Two other fighting game characters I think look awesome but no nothing about are Hakumen and Sunsano-o from Blazblue. I’m guessing Blazblue in general has very little chance and if it ever got a character, it would be Ragna.

If we got a Blazblue character I personally would like Nu-13.

The project m ex remix mod convinced me she would be pretty sick in smash.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: Character Design Thoughts

Best Designs

Works Well
/
Solid Foundation, but Needs Tweaks

Has Conceptual Problems

The bottom tier here doesn't need to be thrown in the dumpster, but they do need a change in direction for their movesets to work properly.

 

[Arcanir]

Metroid

• Cataris (Metroid Dread)

Spoiler: Reasoning

Dread getting a stage is obvious, right? I’m not going to lie, Cataris isn’t an overly inspired choice. I went with it because of Smash’s tendency to go with locations early in the game, especially with the “main” stage of a series, and Cataris has more interesting aesthetics than Artaria. I very much considered Raven Beak's arena, for whatever it's worth For a gimmick, it would no doubt have the Metroid classic of rising and falling lava. Additionally, I think adding EMMI in a similar fashion to the Ultimatr e Chimera is an easy way to make the stagef42h m9ore unique (assuming we’re not getting EMMI as an AT)

I have to disagree. Cataris' lava aesthetic would have it overlap with most of Metroid's current stages, and the gimmick of the level is basically asking for them to do Planet Zebes 0.75 over something more interesting. Artaria would immediately stand out by comparison by virtue of it's more unique and alien background along with allowing them to draw from the initial and most notable encounter with the EMMI.

 

[Laniv]

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

In terms of what simply works, it's the spacies , Marth , and Captain Falcon . It just works (tm)

In terms of what is a good representation of the character, it's King K. Rool because they just hit every move on the mark

 

[WeirdChillFever]

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

Wanna mention here, which I think knocked it out of the park in terms of creating a boss set

 

[Wonder Smash]

Pfft you don't know what you're talking about. Kazuya is all about having a very serious response to extremely offbeat wacky ****

Umm..."Kazuya"?

 

[Louie G.]

Best Designs

I can appreciate Roy being here but I gotta disagree on Lucina. Roy had a lot of work done to create a more deliberate rushdown swordsman, but Lucina just cuts out Marth's intricate spacing gimmick with no major adjustments elsewhere. I don't think she needs to be changed all that much, but Marth's moveset was designed with the tipper in mind so there are elements here that are just not as deliberately thought out.

Wanna mention here, which I think knocked it out of the park in terms of creating a boss set

Agree with this, honestly I believe both him and K. Rool showcase this excellently and they've raised the bar on how to design villains in Smash. Although the unnecessary one-winged comeback mechanic clutters him a little bit. That's an issue I have with most of the DLC designs on a more fundamental level, but otherwise I do love Sephiroth's kit and think it comes together extremely well. Sometimes less is more though.

...but maybe the goal here is to reflect some kind of second phase to a boss battle? That's a compelling premise if it's the intent, but right now the mechanic feels kind of inconsequential and doesn't shine as much when like every other DLC character had one (exaggeration).

As far as DLC characters go, I think Pyra / Mythra are the most successful design. They're my favorite execution of a transformation / swap character thus far by just making a no-nonsense stance change fighter. Once they're balanced out a bit next game I'll probably be eager to give them their flowers.

 

[AreJay25]

Wanna mention here, which I think knocked it out of the park in terms of creating a boss set

Conceptually, yeah, I'd say his moveset works just fine.

Execution wise, though... ehhhhhhhh. How they decided to balance him leaves a lot to be desired. He ends up feeling more frustrating to play than he should at times.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I can appreciate Roy being here but I gotta disagree on Lucina. Roy had a lot of work done to create a more deliberate rushdown swordsman, but Lucina just cuts out Marth's intricate spacing gimmick with no major adjustments elsewhere. I don't think she needs to be changed all that much, but Marth's moveset was designed with the tipper in mind so there are elements here that are just not as deliberately thought out.



Agree with this, honestly I believe both him and K. Rool showcase this excellently and they've raised the bar on how to design villains in Smash. Although the unnecessary one-winged comeback mechanic clutters him a little bit. That's an issue I have with most of the DLC designs on a more fundamental level, but otherwise I do love Sephiroth's kit and think it comes together extremely well. Sometimes less is more though.

...but maybe the goal here is to reflect some kind of second phase to a boss battle? That's a compelling premise if it's the intent, but right now the mechanic feels kind of inconsequential and doesn't shine as much when like every other DLC character had one (exaggeration).

As far as DLC characters go, I think Pyra / Mythra are the most successful design. They're my favorite execution of a transformation / swap character thus far by just making a no-nonsense stance change fighter. Once they're balanced out a bit next game I'll probably be eager to give them their flowers.

Yeah, I wanted to mention Pyra and Mythra but I feel like the fact they feel good to play is more because of their overtuned buttons rather than their conceptual design.

Conceptually, yeah, I'd say his moveset works just fine.

Execution wise, though... ehhhhhhhh. How they decided to balance him leaves a lot to be desired. He ends up feeling more frustrating to play than he should at times.

Huh, I always thought he played really smoothly.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Wanna mention here, which I think knocked it out of the park in terms of creating a boss set

It'd be better if you didn't need a college degree to understand how his Wing mechanic fully works

 

[smashkirby]

I like the invitation thing, but I can KINDA get where you're coming from with this? I'm just not really sure how you'd make a commonplace thing for the toys to life concept interesting or exciting for a fighting game trailer that gets the point across immediately, like would a kid buy a new toy/figure every trailer?

It is kinda funny that what was originally just part of Villager and Isabelle's trailers was expanded to Joker, Terry, Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra, but considering its use in promotional material (like as placeholders for the Fighters Passes, being shown when they said more characters were coming), it's a pretty immediate way to get the point across at this point and I feel like it's likely to continue as a marketing/promotional tool considering Ultimate DLC expanded the invitation's role a lot lol

I think the letters are fine, personally.

While they're no replacement to the toys-to-life aspect the series started as, they are a thing that is mostly unique to Smash and prevents it from feeling like a truly soulless corporate crossover. It feels like the trailers are part of the world, part of the fighters' stories, rather than just a typical trailer.

The problem is that the letter thing gives the implication that Smash is this prestigious tournament rather than kids playing with figurines so the old soul and new soul feel contradictory to one another.

With that said, what's preventing both from coexisting? A kid could absolutely imagine their figurines going on a fighting tournament, right?

I'm not completely opposed to the invitations, really. If nothing else, I just wish Smash played up the child's existence again. Like, they obviously don't ever have to outright reveal the kid to us or anything. I mainly mean that perhaps we can see stuff like the den(??) where the child keeps the cast after they finish Classic or something.

If I remember correctly, Brawl had the cast (upon finishing Classic and All-Star) gather on the top of some tower or something, right? Smash 4 was some non-descript night area that contained the Smash Bros. symbol, and Ultimate, well... you know.

 

[AreJay25]

Huh, I always thought he played really smoothly.

It's mainly a lot of little things that add up to big issues with him.

They want him to be a glass cannon, but he's got very slow moves with thin hitboxes that he's got to be really methodical with. He has a comeback mechanic that he can barely use a lot of the time because he's so light while simultaneously being one of the tallest characters in the game. Said comeback mechanic has some really strange rules that that can screw him over depending on how far ahead or behind he is.

And then there's really weird things like Side B getting him killed sometimes because, for some reason, it's unsafe on hit.

I think he's pretty cool on paper, and he can be fun to play when things go right. But man, when things go wrong, you REALLY feel it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I can appreciate Roy being here but I gotta disagree on Lucina. Roy had a lot of work done to create a more deliberate rushdown swordsman, but Lucina just cuts out Marth's intricate spacing gimmick with no major adjustments elsewhere. I don't think she needs to be changed all that much, but Marth's moveset was designed with the tipper in mind so there are elements here that are just not as deliberately thought out.

I was thinking I'd put them both there if Lucina didn't overshadow Marth due to his overemphasis on tippers, but I think I can agree that the correctly handled tipper mechanic is what made it so good, and Lucina lacks that.

I dunno what I'd do with her going forward, but I'd like to see her branch off from being either budget Marth or straight up better Marth depending on how Marth is handled.