Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Adding to this, if every Fire Emblem Fighter was just a class with a different character for each alt, that does seem like it has the potential for sensory overload in a game that's pushing a ridiculously large roster as is

do you know what sensory overload is? cause i really dont see how a roster size would trigger it

 

[Jotari]

This is actually a good point. Ganon and Ganondorf are far from being present in every game..... hell, he's barely even existent in the portable titles. But I guess a lot of people are still sore over the fact that he pretty much usurps Zant's position as the main villain in Twilight Princess, which gives the false impression that he's egregiously over-used. In reality, despite the Triforce being such a major symbol of the entire series, with Ganon's association to the Triforce of Power making him all the more crucial as the main overarching villain (so like the Bowser to Link's Mario), he surprisingly hasn't appeared near as much as he could have (perhaps partially because the Triforce itself is not such a heavily relied-upon plot element for every game).

Well he was used a lot up until Twilight Princess (which wasn't the first time he came around and stole the plot from another villain). The only games not featuring him (that being Ganon and Ganondorf as one character) in some capacity before Twilight Princess were Majora's Mask, original Four Swords* and The Minish Cap. Though he was only in the game over screen in (the international release of) Zelda II and only his boss battle and not his character were used in Link's Awakening. I guess Link's Awakening started the trend of not using him or the Triforce even though they fell back on him for part of a the final boss battle. The Oracle games are almost the outlier for being handhled games with him in it. We never did get an official sprite of human based Ganondorf (at least until Hyrule Warriors gave 8-bit sprites to everyone), which I find a little bit dissapointing. Would have been great to see him in The Minish Cap aesthetic.

*(which the community considers a standalone game, but really it was just an expansion of A Link to the Past)

 

[ForsakenM]

So Nintendo's official Game Boy Advance emulator for the Nintendo Switch just leaked. Now it's just a matter of waiting for NSO to add GBA. pic.twitter.com/mEJcKrRtzL

— MaxiBash (Bluesky: maxibash.bsky.social) (@trashbandatcoot) April 18, 2022

Place your bets: Standard or Expansion Pass?

(Also, at least we'd finally get Golden Sun on Switch...)

I think it's going to be OG GB and GBC for Standard, GBA for Expansion. This makes the most sense on how to sell the Expansion without completely alienating everyone with extensive greed. It also matches the current business model, which is having what most would consider the 'very old stuff' on Standard and the more recent stuff that hooks a ton of people on the Expansion.

The old GB games and GBC where they feel so much more limited in what they can do and offer but will still please 'older folks' who can appreciate them are given to all to play...however...

You want Fusion? You want Gen 3? You want Golden Sun? You want Superstar Saga? Warioware? Minish Cap? Fire Emblem? Gunstar Heroes? A chance at FF Tactics?

Fork it over.

However, by giving you Gen 1 and Gen 2, Wario Land, Harvest Moon, OG Link's Awakening, Pokemon Pinball and TCG, Shantae, Kirby Tilt N Tumble, Ages/Seasons, DRAGON WARRIOR MONSTERS and other Dragon Warrior titles, Bionic Commando...Nintendo gives you the impression that you are being given more for what you are already paying for anyway, so paying more for 'what you really want' isn't that bad. And honestly, if they do take that route, there is some honest truth in what I just said. I'm being sassy about the manipulative marketing, but dumping a bunch of GB and GBC games and letting people play them in addition to the big NES/SNES library already available and still keeping it $20 a year would be a really good deal.

 

[Jotari]

I think it's going to be OG GB and GBC for Standard, GBA for Expansion. This makes the most sense on how to sell the Expansion without completely alienating everyone with extensive greed. It also matches the current business model, which is having what most would consider the 'very old stuff' on Standard and the more recent stuff that hooks a ton of people on the Expansion.

The old GB games and GBC where they feel so much more limited in what they can do and offer but will still please 'older folks' who can appreciate them are given to all to play...however...

You want Fusion? You want Gen 3? You want Golden Sun? You want Superstar Saga? Warioware? Minish Cap? Fire Emblem? Gunstar Heroes? A chance at FF Tactics?

Fork it over.

However, by giving you Gen 1 and Gen 2, Wario Land, Harvest Moon, OG Link's Awakening, Pokemon Pinball and TCG, Shantae, Kirby Tilt N Tumble, Ages/Seasons, DRAGON WARRIOR MONSTERS and other Dragon Warrior titles, Bionic Commando...Nintendo gives you the impression that you are being given more for what you are already paying for anyway, so paying more for 'what you really want' isn't that bad. And honestly, if they do take that route, there is some honest truth in what I just said. I'm being sassy about the manipulative marketing, but dumping a bunch of GB and GBC games and letting people play them in addition to the big NES/SNES library already available and still keeping it $20 a year would be a really good deal.

Gameboy Advance game I'd most like to play is Astro Boy Omega Factor, but I don't reckon they'll be releasing that one any time soon.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm VERY curious to see of old Pokemon games are actually going to be on Nintendo Online.

You would maybe have a point before melee/brawl, but given how these characters already have recognizable builds and fighting styles, is there really a point in changing it for the sake of an unnamed fighting slot like "lord"? At this point they're all very different from each other.

Oh, obviously they aren't going to change it NOW. I'm just saying I wish it was what they'd done to begin with.

Like, back in Melee, we had one FE character that had 2 Marth alts, and 2 Roy alts. And then in Brawl, it became 2 Marths, 1 Roy, 1 Ike. And then in 4, it became 2 Marths, 2 Roys, 1 Ike, 2 Chrom and 1 Lucina. And then in Ultimate, we got 2 Marths, 1 Roy, 1 Ike, 1 Chrom, 1 Lucina, 2 Byleths.

 

[Perkilator]

So Nintendo's official Game Boy Advance emulator for the Nintendo Switch just leaked. Now it's just a matter of waiting for NSO to add GBA. pic.twitter.com/mEJcKrRtzL

— MaxiBash (Bluesky: maxibash.bsky.social) (@trashbandatcoot) April 18, 2022

Place your bets: Standard or Expansion Pass?

(Also, at least we'd finally get Golden Sun on Switch...)

Apparently the original version of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories was leaked for this as well. If true, then it’s sad that this is a better KH Switch Port than what SE did provide us.

 

[Gengar84]

This is actually a good point. Ganon and Ganondorf are far from being present in every game..... hell, he's barely even existent in the portable titles. But I guess a lot of people are still sore over the fact that he pretty much usurps Zant's position as the main villain in Twilight Princess, which gives the false impression that he's egregiously over-used. In reality, despite the Triforce being such a major symbol of the entire series, with Ganon's association to the Triforce of Power making him all the more crucial as the main overarching villain (so like the Bowser to Link's Mario), he surprisingly hasn't appeared near as much as he could have (perhaps partially because the Triforce itself is not such a heavily relied-upon plot element for every game).

Also, as I'm sure I've pointed out before, Ganon's human avatar of Ganondorf was VERY new at the time of his inclusion in Melee. Though, given the fact that he was featured in the Space World demo, it does seem as though there were always more plans for him down the line (which seems like quite the contrast from Shiek, who lives on to this day solely because of her presence in Smash).


So you're calling for Classic Link to exist as a 4th Link in Smash?

But I'm with Gengar84 on just making more costumes for such characters.


A lot of users do this, really. I'd also prefer if they just trimmed it down to whatever point was necessary, but given that you have to click to expand the longer ones, they don't bloat up the length of pages in this thread, so I find them largely inoffensive.


As much as I love the Koopalings, I can accept them just being a set of alts. I wouldn't expect Smash to do like Mario Kart and make every single one of those seven characters be their own unique character (even if all of them were just Echo Fighters who were set apart from Jr. even less than Daisy was from Peach).


Uh....... auto-correct?


Adding to this, if every Fire Emblem Fighter was just a class with a different character for each alt, that does seem like it has the potential for sensory overload in a game that's pushing a ridiculously large roster as is (one that still manages to have a grip on casual audiences, no less). I mean, I could imagine people not knowing what they're up against because one specific alt of a class happens to be played so little (and even if you could recognize them as a Fire Emblem character, it wouldn't help that there're 30-40 other such characters due to the classes being repped by numerous alts). At least with Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings, their basic gameplay could be immediately recognizeable due to the fact that they all share the Clown Car. In contrast, you're probably not gonna be able to tell that, say, Marth and Alm are meant to play similarly from a glance (more so since Smash already has about 20 other swordies).

Lol yeah, I have no idea why my phone auto corrects words that badly. Pikmin is nothing like Kimmel. I’ve noticed that the auto correct has gotten much worse lately for some reason.

 

[Geno Boost]

I wanted to try a move set concept for Iron Checkpoint Crate which probably wont happen in official Smash game but I thought it would be fun to explore how this thing would fight and surprisingly there is enough stuff to make a whole move set especially if we use references from CTR and he is even a mini boss in Crash On the Run lets see how it can be a fun character to add after Crash Bandicoot due to having simple animations also many people loved the inclusion of him in CTR.
Alright lets start:

Intro: Falling down from sky like in Crash on The Run mini boss.

Taunt 1: Iron Checkpoint Crate will open and Uka Uka will come out and laugh.

Taunt 2: Iron Checkpoint Crate will be fully opened.

Taunt 3: Iron Chekpoint Crate will drift with his car.

Victory and Lose:

Victory 2: Iron Checkpoint Crate will drive his car from far away and drift close to the screen.

Getting Hit:

Down:

Side Smash: Uka Uka will hit side way.
Down Smash: Uka Uka will spin around you and hit down both sides.

Up Smash: Iron Checkpoint Crate will open and launch TNT or Nitro upward and it will explode.
There is 75% chance it will be TNT and the count on the TNT will be on 1.

There is 25% chance it will be Nitro and it will deal more damage than TNT.

Neutral Special: Spawns Power Shield which will make can take on a single damage around you before it goes off and you can also throw it and its a projectile and if someone was holding shield while you throw the Power Shield it will break his shield.

Side Special: it spawns a car and it works Like Bowser Jr. side special

Up Special: Spawns Arrow Crate to jump from it works similar to Sonic up special but the Arrow Crate can stay in the air and it can be damaged.

Down Special: Obtain Beaker item which can be thrown and it deals damage while having poison effect keep in mind you can damage yourself if you hit yourself with it.
There is 75% chance it will be the regular Beaker.

There is 25% chance it will be the stronger version of the Beaker which can also reduce speed if someone got hit with it.

Neutral Air: Uka Uka will spin around you.

Side Air: Iron Checkpoint Crate will open and Launch Missile on the front side its a projectile.

Back Air: Iron Checkpoint Crate will open and Bowling Bomb will launched backward and it can also roll on the platform its a projectile.

Up Air: Iron Checkpoint Crate will open and release flame upward.

Down Air: It will throw a Crate downward its a projectile.

Jab Attack: Uka Uka will hit 2 times.
Side Tilt: Uka Uka will hit side way.
Up Tilt: Iron Check Point Crate will open up and Uka Uka will come out and hit upward.
Down Tilt: Iron Checkpint Crate will roll side way 360 degree quickly its a multi hit attack.

Dash Attack: It will spawn the Boost platform that will launch and slide you up 45 degree quickly.

Grab: Uka Uka will Grab.
Grab Attack: Iron Checkpoint Crate will hit.
Side Throw: Uka Uka will hit side way.
Back Throw: ka Uka will put someone inside Iron Checkpoint Crate then launch someone backward.
Up Throw: Uka Uka will put someone inside Iron Checkpoint Crate then launch someone upward.
Down Throw: Iron Checkpoint Crate stomp on someone and it can bury someone.

Get Up Attack: Uka Uka will come out of Iron Checkpoint Crate and spin around you and hit down both sides.

Ledge Attack: Get up and release flame side way.

Final Smash: Warp Orb will be launched side way and it works similar to Mewtwo Smash Ultimate final smash but with electricity effect.

So what do you think? I am pretty sure this move set can get updated due to Activision using him more as an actual a character in the newer Crash Bandicoot games and probably more to come in the future for Iron Checkpoint Crate.

 

[UberPyro64]

Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is releasing on July 29th! It's been pulled foward from its original September release date.

 

[Perkilator]

WAKE UP HONEY NEW XC3 TRAILER

Edit: 'd

 

[Geno Boost]

Xenoblade Chronicles 3 featuring Joker from Persona 5

 

[Gengar84]

Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is releasing on July 29th! It's been pulled foward from its original September release date.

That’s crazy. I can’t think of any other examples where a game’s release date was actually pulled forward like that, let alone by over a month. I’m sure there must be some examples but this seems really unusual to me. I love Xenoblade so I’ll take it.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is releasing on July 29th! It's been pulled foward from its original September release date.

You can also reclass party members and everything this time. I think whichever of Noah or Mio gets in will have the other as an echo after seeing this. My gut says that this reclass would be the gimmick for the two and they would be stance based characters.

 

[fogbadge]

ah even more character duos who cant be in smash thanks to 8 player

anyway i am looking forward to this and im sure ill probably end up supporting someone from it for smash

 

[Quillion]

Also, as I'm sure I've pointed out before, Ganon's human avatar of Ganondorf was VERY new at the time of his inclusion in Melee. Though, given the fact that he was featured in the Space World demo, it does seem as though there were always more plans for him down the line (which seems like quite the contrast from Shiek, who lives on to this day solely because of her presence in Smash).

Whatever the case, the plans for Ganon down the line didn't exactly line up with what Sakurai assumed would be his standard ability set circa Melee. He punched (the ground) and threw a magic blast, and considering 64/Melee moveset design standards refused to give heavy-archetypes (conventional) projectiles, extrapolating punching the ground into punching and kicking all the time and excluding his magic blast was actually not too far-fetched.

It was when they took the OoT Ganon fight (and/or the SpaceWorld demo) and started to make Ganon consistently use a sword to some extent in the 3D games that things got weird. Again, the same happened to Zelda where she got her Light Arrow as her Final Smash, but as the Zelda series developed a pattern of making Light Arrows her preferred weapon, Ultimate removed that part of her moveset entirely.

Again, Ganondorf and Zelda are very special cases among the Smash roster where their canon abilities have not naturally built upon what they were upon their Smash debut.

So you're calling for Classic Link to exist as a 4th Link in Smash?

Yes. Yes I am.

Heck, I would say "Classic" Link, OoT Link, and TP Link could be alts for one another on how similar they are. That can't really be said for BotW Link.

Oh, obviously they aren't going to change it NOW. I'm just saying I wish it was what they'd done to begin with.

Like, back in Melee, we had one FE character that had 2 Marth alts, and 2 Roy alts. And then in Brawl, it became 2 Marths, 1 Roy, 1 Ike. And then in 4, it became 2 Marths, 2 Roys, 1 Ike, 2 Chrom and 1 Lucina. And then in Ultimate, we got 2 Marths, 1 Roy, 1 Ike, 1 Chrom, 1 Lucina, 2 Byleths.

Considering how little I like the three Star Fox characters having variants of the same specialset, that would just make the Fire Emblem section of the roster even blander. The Marth+derivatives, Ike, and Robin are fine. I just want them to stop leaning on Avatars.

 

[Jotari]

Whatever the case, the plans for Ganon down the line didn't exactly line up with what Sakurai assumed would be his standard ability set circa Melee. He punched (the ground) and threw a magic blast, and considering 64/Melee moveset design standards refused to give heavy-archetypes (conventional) projectiles, extrapolating punching the ground into punching and kicking all the time and excluding his magic blast was actually not too far-fetched.

Indeed. Had they changed the south effect on dark dive to match that of his flying in Ocarina of Time, and managed to rig up Mewtwo's Shadow Ball to his model, then no one would have complained about his Melee implementation at all. He would have had everything he was shown to do at the time.

Again, Ganondorf and Zelda are very special cases among the Smash roster where their canon abilities have not naturally built upon what they were upon their Smash debut.

I can think of one similar case, that being the Star Fox characters. Though, it's not quite "the canon abilities didn't match up with what was expected", since what was expected was more vehicle flying around, but after Smash 64 the Star Fox crew did have a few games where they moved around outside of their vehicles and used an assortment of weaponry, yet even Wolf, who got in after that era, didn't really take anything from the 3D shooter aspect, and there's no clamouring to give Fox Krystal's staff (probably because anyone who does want to see such moves would rather them on Krystal). Though even the first Smash Bros. completely ignored the multiplayer mode of Lylat Wars where Fox could wander around outside his vehicles using a bazooka. Still, food for thought. The Star Fox characters actually have a surprising amount of stuff they could pull from now that they couldn't when created that is just being ignored.

 

[Gengar84]

Does the Blade Ouroboros mechanic from the new Xenoblade 3 trailer remind anyone else of Tales of Zesteria’s fusion forms? The idea was really cool but I didn’t care for how it was executed in that game. These forms look cooler than the fusions in Zesteria and the fact that you could never control the Blades in Xenoblade 2 but n the first place makes me feel like it will be a lot better in this game. Zesteria had a lot of other problems beyond just its poorly executed fusion mechanic that made it the weakest entry in the series in my opinion. I loved Zaveid, Edna, and Rose as characters though.

ah even more character duos who cant be in smash thanks to 8 player

anyway i am looking forward to this and im sure ill probably end up supporting someone from it for smash

By the time the next Smash comes out, technology may have advanced enough where duo characters like Rex and Pyra or characters who summon units like Akira Howard are no longer an issue. We likely won’t see another game until the Switch’s successor so we’ll have to wait and see how much more powerful it is compared to the Switch. I certainly don’t think characters like these are out of the question just because they were difficult to implement on current hardware.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I think Noah and Mio might work as a duo fighter. I have a great concept. They're a mix of Ice Climbers and Zelda/Sheik. Each have their own moves including specials, same stats, and you can swap one to other to control while the other is a CPU. If one of them is KOed, they have to fight on their own and not like the ice climbers where the leader dies, they lose a stock. They have 2 different final smashes. If alone, its Chain Attack with other party members. If together, they fuse into their Ouroboros form to attack.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Considering how little I like the three Star Fox characters having variants of the same specialset, that would just make the Fire Emblem section of the roster even blander.

Except there wouldn't BE a FE section. There'd be 1 character slot.

 

[fogbadge]

By the time the next Smash comes out, technology may have advanced enough where duo characters like Rex and Pyra or characters who summon units like Akira Howard are no longer an issue. We likely won’t see another game until the Switch’s successor so we’ll have to wait and see how much more powerful it is compared to the Switch. I certainly don’t think characters like these are out of the question just because they were difficult to implement on current hardware.

i know but im an inherent pessimist

 

[ahemtoday]

The Perefect Smash
Edit: Damn i made a writing mistake!

I... find myself unsure whether I should reply in that thread or this one. I suppose this one is where the conversation started, so here it is.

• Step 0: Reuse all the stuff from Ultimate. Okay. That's practical. I very much agree with the philosophy of "get cool things done by cheating like a bandit". ("Cheating" probably isn't the right word, but whatever.)
• Step 1: Smash Platforming, a new mode with single-player stages for each fighter built using the ingame stage builder that then have enemies and bosses put in them. Okay. Again, a practical way to execute this much content.
• Step 2: Even Specialer Smash where you can control bosses, assist trophies, and enemies (oh, and also set modifiers independently). Hm... I get where you're going with this one, and I do think it would be quite a fun mode to mess around with. However, enemies and bosses would have to be built around it, and that's a lot of work for a mode I fear will go the way of Stage Morph - unutilized by the majority of players. Though playing as bosses is a bit more of a draw, I admit. But ATs being playable in this mode also doesn't really alleviate that they'd still be "in jail": exclusive to this mode, unplayable in competitive and (more importantly) online. I mean, assuming it follows in the footsteps of the current Special Smash.
• Step 3: Customization. ...Yeah, you lost me. The thing about custom moves in Smash 4 for me is that when they were cool and unique new moves instead of slight tweaks... I actually liked them way, way less. It took me 'til Ultimate to actually play as Palutena without feeling like I was missing out on something, even with customs off. If that type of character design became widespread to the degree of this idea, I have to assume it would ruin the game for me. Turns out, I am thoroughly disinterested in deciding my character's loadout in a fighting game.

 

[Quillion]

I can think of one similar case, that being the Star Fox characters. Though, it's not quite "the canon abilities didn't match up with what was expected", since what was expected was more vehicle flying around, but after Smash 64 the Star Fox crew did have a few games where they moved around outside of their vehicles and used an assortment of weaponry, yet even Wolf, who got in after that era, didn't really take anything from the 3D shooter aspect, and there's no clamouring to give Fox Krystal's staff (probably because anyone who does want to see such moves would rather them on Krystal). Though even the first Smash Bros. completely ignored the multiplayer mode of Lylat Wars where Fox could wander around outside his vehicles using a bazooka. Still, food for thought. The Star Fox characters actually have a surprising amount of stuff they could pull from now that they couldn't when created that is just being ignored.

I'd say that stems from Nintendo's lack of attention towards the non-EAD made Star Fox games. You can say it's a lack of respect towards anything not having to do with the Andross war, but it's quite notable that Star Fox has been tossed around different studios since 64, meaning there can never be anything resembling a coherent vision.

Except there wouldn't BE a FE section. There'd be 1 character slot.

Would you want Pythra/Rex to be a Shulk alt too?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The moving up of Xenoblade 3 has me curious if various titles are being shuffled around to adjust for BOTW2's delay. It could be that another game that was internally scheduled for late in the year will be revealed to be coming out in the fall and so forth.

As far as the various FE fighters, as someone who does enjoy playing as most of them even though I'm not much of an actual player of the series, my only real wish was that they were simply more visually distinct. That's the nice thing about the more cartoony/anthropomorphic fighters; even as similar as Fox/Falco/Wolf play, they all look easily different from each other.

 

[Quillion]

The moving up of Xenoblade 3 has me curious if various titles are being shuffled around to adjust for BOTW2's delay. It could be that another game that was internally scheduled for late in the year will be revealed to be coming out in the fall and so forth.

As far as the various FE fighters, as someone who does enjoy playing as most of them even though I'm not much of an actual player of the series, my only real wish was that they were simply more visually distinct. That's the nice thing about the more cartoony/anthropomorphic fighters; even as similar as Fox/Falco/Wolf play, they all look easily different from each other.

Even among the Marth derivatives, Roy is very distinct. I would hate for Chrom and Lucina to be visually distinct though, given that they're Marth's descendants.

 

[dream1ng]

Apparently the original version of Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories was leaked for this as well. If true, then it’s sad that this is a better KH Switch Port than what SE did provide us.

It's one of the games being tested, doesn't necessarily mean it will actually show up on the service. So far no SE games are on any of the NSO systems afaik.

 

[RodNutTakin]

I like most of the changes you made, and if you want, I can give a more thorough feedback to your selection. I don't have much to say about Octoling, Waluigi, the Pokemon, revived IP, or Howard, I agree with all of those inclusions. Also, I think Toy Link is a nice update to the secondary, smaller Links, and Diskun, as a character people go "eh" about actually fits the criteria for a Sakurai being Sakurai choice well.

Edit: I've actually come down a bit more on Diskun, thinking on it more. Even as a wtf addition, Japanese-only characters are avoided in the selection process. I think he fits in terms of being an idiosyncratically Sakurai choice, but in terms of regionalized obscurity I think he misses the boat. Also in part because the surprise characters also seem to be valued on being well-known despite unanticipated, if WFT, DHD and PP are anything to go by.

Now, Impa I don't have a problem with in theory as much as I'm concerned all her popular appearances are from spin-offs. If you're making this roster, that wouldn't be a problem. With Sakurai, that might be. I just worry the Hyrule Warriors stuff would be overlooked, as spin-off stuff usually is. And then in terms of the mainline appearances, the feasible incarnations are now fairly old. I think she should get in, I just question the actual likelihood of it happening at this junction.

With Raven Beak, I can't imagine he gets in unless he recurs. Which would be... tricky. I agree over his importance to his series, but plotline importance isn't really that much of a factor for inclusion so much as frequency of attendance. A one-off Metroid character is going to have a tough go to get in, I don't see it as overly realistic. Past that, at this point, Metroid is also not in the place where additional representation will likely be urgent.

I think the most glaringly questionable addition though is Porky. He's really not the K. Rool, because he's really not that popular. He's certainly not popular enough to be included due to popularity. A lot of his popularity this time stemmed simply from the fact people thought he still had a chance because he didn't have a true spirit of himself. If you're going to carve out spots for popular inclusions, those inclusions can't be somewhere in the twenties or thirties in terms of popularity. It just doesn't make sense, it's passing over so many more popular characters, including all six of the characters you otherwise considered, only Hector aside.

Then I think Bomberman is a good choice for a base third-party, Arle... is within the realm of possibility, and Iori... frankly I don't think he'd get priority over all the third-parties that could be added. I think you'd have to be looking at things through the lens of deliberately wanting to give SNK another slot to land on him, which isn't really how it works, but... there are less likely outcomes on the roster, so I can live with it.

For the DLC, I think most of it is good. If not a bit safe. Don't get me wrong, they're characters people would like to see, but there's almost too much "this is what the fans want" for it to be realistic. Eggman, Zero, Crono, Hayabusa and Doom Slayer are all good choices, I just don't think we'd get them all at the absence of characters people didn't really entertain as much.

I do contend Noah being DLC though. By the time of the next Smash, XC3 is not going to be an upcoming title, it's going to be, probably, several years old. Him being DLC instead of base doesn't make sense, they wouldn't withhold a first-party character like that.

I notice you've also cut Joker and replaced him with "Atlus character". I don't think it would play out like that. Maybe he'd get cut for the newest Persona character, which I still kind of doubt, but I even more doubt him getting replaced by, like, Nahobino. Or any other Atlus IP; that's a bit like cutting Kazuya for Nightmare. So I would either reinstate him, replace the "Atlus" slot with a specifically Persona one, or add him back and add a SMT slot. Even though it just makes more sense to just specify it as Nahobino, because it doesn't need to be open-ended.

And then Kris. I get why you put the character there, but... there are just a number of more well-known indies to the point I can't imagine that'd be the first they'd choose to include. Even past ones from Undertale, characters like Shovel Knight and Cuphead are just a lot more prolific. That inclusion, frankly, seems a little biased.

Overall though it's a good selection. I would be happy with that roster. I think the biggest problem is Porky, who just... just isn't going to make it. Especially as the next K. Rool. Earthbound has had its day, and there are characters far more popular than him. Frankly it's lucky to have the amount of representation it already has. And also I'd put Noah in base, because timing-wise DLC doesn't make sense.

I really like this roster, but I do have a couple of recommendations:
-Incineroar being a base game character and Greninja being a DLC character seems strange. Greninja is the most popular Pokemon period (if the 2021 poll is to be believed), while Incineroar isn't even the most popular starter in his generation. While I imagine you moved Greninja to DLC to have a Wii U/3DS newcomer as DLC, I think it would be better to keep him in the roster and move Incineroar to DLC or (if you really want to keep the "one DLC veteran per previous Smash entry" theme) add Corrin instead.
-Impa, Raven Beak, and Porky seem like odd inclusions. While Impa is an active combat character in the spin-offs, she's either an old woman with no combat abilities or a retainer we see little of in the mainline entries. While I understand wanting to cut Sheik to add a character that fills a similar role and has more appearances in the Zelda series, I think Sheik is enough of a Smash staple to justify keeping her in the game. Likewise, Raven Beak is likely just a one-off Metroid character in the vein of the hunters from Prime 3 and Hunters. Porky would be cool, but he doesn't have the fan demand to justify being another K. Rool.
-Noah and Iori should be swapped. I don't think there's any reason to keep Noah as a DLC character when Xenoblade 3 is releasing later this year and this game will presumably be releasing in the future. Likewise, Iori seems more suited to be a DLC character when you consider that 5 of the 6 fighting game characters we've gotten have been DLC (and the one that wasn't DLC didn't have any unique mechanics that Ryu didn't) and DLC fighters are usually the ones with expansive, unique mechanics.
-I think you should consider adding Bandana Waddle Dee and Crash Bandicoot as base game newcomers. I know you said you opted to avoid BWD because Sakurai hasn't really touched Kirby content he didn't have a hand in creating, I think the merits of his inclusion are just too great to ignore at this point. He's the most popular Nintendo newcomer after Waluigi, he only continues to grow in importance in the Kirby series (now being Kirby's de-facto Luigi for two games now), and Kirby seems to be having a renaissance with Forgotten World. Likewise, Crash is a solid candidate for the most popular request during Ultimate's DLC period and him being owned by Microsoft now provides a direct bridge to his inclusion while leaving room for Doom Marine as Microsoft's DLC character.
-I also think you should consider keeping Joker and Roy/Chrom. I understand Roy and Chrom are being out-prioritized by more unique Fire Emblem characters and Joker is presumably being out-prioritized by a more modern Atlus character, but these characters have made such a splash among Ultimate's player base that their absence would definitely be felt.

After reading both of your responses, I decided to take some time off to formulate what I wanted to change with my image in response to your guys' feedback, and now I believe I have something mostly satisfactory here. I'll go over my changes under the image:

-So the first thing I decided to change was moving Noah to base game after being suggested multiple times to do so. I made this image with the assumption of a 2024-2025 release for Smash 6, but XC3 officially getting an August release date is what finally pushed me to put him in the base game section. I also cut Rock Howard as an echo (unfortunately) in favor of having Mio as Noah's echo, since I read about how both protagonists can use each others' weapons, and because of this I imagine they will both be designed as Echoes to each other, similar to Simon and Richter in Ultimate. Not much else to say here other than that I'm overriding Raven Beak with the XC3 protags for the time being, after being convinced about his difficulties as a Smash candidate.

-Also, screw it, I'm putting Bandana Dee as the other "demand fighter". This is still subject to change as I'm still not 100% confident in a fourth Kirby character though, especially since along with Waluigi, this would basically be Sakurai caving in twice over (perhaps Sylux can clutch this spot last minute if he's in Prime 4).

-I'm sticking with Diskun for now since I can't really think of any other surprise legacy choices that would fit here. Color TV-Game has the same Japan-only issue (and is an Assist Trophy), 8-Bit Mario would feel extremely redundant, anything Nintendo LABO related wouldn't feel right since LABO kind of just came and went, and Harry from Teleroboxer...was actually someone I seriously considered, but I'm not sure Nintendo would want anything Virtual Boy-related as a big "legacy" representative for them, given how five games in and counting, there's barely anything from Nintendo's VB titles in Smash.

...maybe Mach Rider?

-I swapped Iori and Zero. I was initially hesitant about Iori as DLC, but upon further research, there's actually a lot of KOF and KOF-associated content not in Ultimate at the moment, so I see no harm in having him as DLC like what you guys suggested. Moving Zero back was also easy. Even though there's no visible room for it on here, I think Capcom would want a new IP of theirs to be DLC instead of a second Mega Man character.

-Decided to move around Greninja and Incineroar, upon multiple suggestions to do so. Though on the subject of veterans, I'm standing by my decision to cut Roy (and Chrom), mainly on the grounds that the former isn't too popular in his home series, was only included in Melee to promote his then-upcoming game, and then missed both Brawl and Smash 4's base game. I can't help but feel that if Smash 6 makes cuts, then it's finally time to retire the boy. As for Chrom, maybe he could be repurposed as an Ike echo if he proved popular enough to stay, but I'm unsure since his Ultimate inclusion felt very much like an afterthought anyway.

-Dropping Noah from the DLC section allowed me to add in one last prediction I'm pretty confident in, that being a slot for a Namco DLC character. I picked Lloyd, the Chosen Undead, and Nightmare as the top three frontrunners for this slot; Lloyd because of the popularity of the Tales series along with him being a requested character since Brawl, the Chosen Undead because of the extreme popularity of Dark Souls and its associated series, and Nightmare because he's a fighting game character who's also a swordsman, perfect for Sakurai! Though for a more serious reason, Soul Calibur does have direct history with Nintendo, thanks to Link being a guest fighter in the GCN version of Soul Calibur II.

-Changed the Atlus placeholder into just a Persona placeholder upon dream1ng's suggestion. That, and the fact that if the gap between Persona 4 and 5 is any indication, we're due for Persona 6 in roughly 2-3 years from now. While Garteam does have a point about Joker making a splash on Smash's community, knowing Atlus, they probably won't care and will want to push Persona 6 as the next big thing, and I imagine that the P6 protagonist will play very similar anyway, other than having a different main Persona replacing Arsene,

-Finally, I turned Doomguy's slot into a general placeholder slot for a Microsoft character, of which I see the aforementioned Doomguy as a potential frontrunner, along with Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot when the Activision buyout is finalized for the latter.

Also, I'm still sticking with Kris for the time being, but if the next Smash comes out and Deltarune still shows no indication of being remotely done, I'll probably take him off and replace him with someone else.

Apologies for taking a while to respond to the both of you. Even though this took me a bit, don't let that deter you from giving more in-depth feedback if you want to.

 

[Gengar84]

After reading both of your responses, I decided to take some time off to formulate what I wanted to change with my image in response to your guys' feedback, and now I believe I have something mostly satisfactory here. I'll go over my changes under the image:

-So the first thing I decided to change was moving Noah to base game after being suggested multiple times to do so. I made this image with the assumption of a 2024-2025 release for Smash 6, but XC3 officially getting an August release date is what finally pushed me to put him in the base game section. I also cut Rock Howard as an echo (unfortunately) in favor of having Mio as Noah's echo, since I read about how both protagonists can use each others' weapons, and because of this I imagine they will both be designed as Echoes to each other, similar to Simon and Richter in Ultimate. Not much else to say here other than that I'm overriding Raven Beak with the XC3 protags for the time being, after being convinced about his difficulties as a Smash candidate.

-Also, screw it, I'm putting Bandana Dee as the other "demand fighter". This is still subject to change as I'm still not 100% confident in a fourth Kirby character though, especially since along with Waluigi, this would basically be Sakurai caving in twice over (perhaps Sylux can clutch this spot last minute if he's in Prime 4).

-I'm sticking with Diskun for now since I can't really think of any other surprise legacy choices that would fit here. Color TV-Game has the same Japan-only issue (and is an Assist Trophy), 8-Bit Mario would feel extremely redundant, anything Nintendo LABO related wouldn't feel right since LABO kind of just came and went, and Harry from Teleroboxer...was actually someone I seriously considered, but I'm not sure Nintendo would want anything Virtual Boy-related as a big "legacy" representative for them, given how five games in and counting, there's barely anything from Nintendo's VB titles in Smash.

...maybe Mach Rider?

-I swapped Iori and Zero. I was initially hesitant about Iori as DLC, but upon further research, there's actually a lot of KOF and KOF-associated content not in Ultimate at the moment, so I see no harm in having him as DLC like what you guys suggested. Moving Zero back was also easy. Even though there's no visible room for it on here, I think Capcom would want a new IP of theirs to be DLC instead of a second Mega Man character.

-Decided to move around Greninja and Incineroar, upon multiple suggestions to do so. Though on the subject of veterans, I'm standing by my decision to cut Roy (and Chrom), mainly on the grounds that the former isn't too popular in his home series, was only included in Melee to promote his then-upcoming game, and then missed both Brawl and Smash 4's base game. I can't help but feel that if Smash 6 makes cuts, then it's finally time to retire the boy. As for Chrom, maybe he could be repurposed as an Ike echo if he proved popular enough to stay, but I'm unsure since his Ultimate inclusion felt very much like an afterthought anyway.

-Dropping Noah from the DLC section allowed me to add in one last prediction I'm pretty confident in, that being a slot for a Namco DLC character. I picked Lloyd, the Chosen Undead, and Nightmare as the top three frontrunners for this slot; Lloyd because of the popularity of the Tales series along with him being a requested character since Brawl, the Chosen Undead because of the extreme popularity of Dark Souls and its associated series, and Nightmare because he's a fighting game character who's also a swordsman, perfect for Sakurai! Though for a more serious reason, Soul Calibur does have direct history with Nintendo, thanks to Link being a guest fighter in the GCN version of Soul Calibur II.

-Changed the Atlus placeholder into just a Persona placeholder upon dream1ng's suggestion. That, and the fact that if the gap between Persona 4 and 5 is any indication, we're due for Persona 6 in roughly 2-3 years from now. While Garteam does have a point about Joker making a splash on Smash's community, knowing Atlus, they probably won't care and will want to push Persona 6 as the next big thing, and I imagine that the P6 protagonist will play very similar anyway, other than having a different main Persona replacing Arsene,

-Finally, I turned Doomguy's slot into a general placeholder slot for a Microsoft character, of which I see the aforementioned Doomguy as a potential frontrunner, along with Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot when the Activision buyout is finalized for the latter.

Also, I'm still sticking with Kris for the time being, but if the next Smash comes out and Deltarune still shows no indication of being remotely done, I'll probably take him off and replace him with someone else.

Apologies for taking a while to respond to the both of you. Even though this took me a bit, don't let that deter you from giving more in-depth feedback if you want to.

I like this roster a lot overall. Even though Zero is probably the only actual character in my personal top 10, I’d still be really happy overall. There are two characters I’m very unfamiliar with. The first is Arle. The only reason I know who she is at all is from other people talking about her for Smash. I never really followed puzzle games beyond Tetris so that’s probably why. The second character is Diskun. I had no clue at all who that is before your list. I’m not opposed to it because Smash is always fun for random retro characters but he would be the first character since Melee that I didn’t know previously.

 

[Sucumbio]

Diskun apparently is an ace spirit in Ultimate but I found something more cool he appears on the player shirts in the manual to Ice Hockey which is one of my favorite games lol. 3 big dudes and 1 skinny dude best team ever.

 

[dream1ng]

Even among the Marth derivatives, Roy is very distinct. I would hate for Chrom and Lucina to be visually distinct though, given that they're Marth's descendants.

Lissa, Emmeryn and Owain are Marth's descendants too and they look distinct.

After reading both of your responses, I decided to take some time off to formulate what I wanted to change with my image in response to your guys' feedback, and now I believe I have something mostly satisfactory here. I'll go over my changes under the image:

-So the first thing I decided to change was moving Noah to base game after being suggested multiple times to do so. I made this image with the assumption of a 2024-2025 release for Smash 6, but XC3 officially getting an August release date is what finally pushed me to put him in the base game section. I also cut Rock Howard as an echo (unfortunately) in favor of having Mio as Noah's echo, since I read about how both protagonists can use each others' weapons, and because of this I imagine they will both be designed as Echoes to each other, similar to Simon and Richter in Ultimate. Not much else to say here other than that I'm overriding Raven Beak with the XC3 protags for the time being, after being convinced about his difficulties as a Smash candidate.

-Also, screw it, I'm putting Bandana Dee as the other "demand fighter". This is still subject to change as I'm still not 100% confident in a fourth Kirby character though, especially since along with Waluigi, this would basically be Sakurai caving in twice over (perhaps Sylux can clutch this spot last minute if he's in Prime 4).

-I'm sticking with Diskun for now since I can't really think of any other surprise legacy choices that would fit here. Color TV-Game has the same Japan-only issue (and is an Assist Trophy), 8-Bit Mario would feel extremely redundant, anything Nintendo LABO related wouldn't feel right since LABO kind of just came and went, and Harry from Teleroboxer...was actually someone I seriously considered, but I'm not sure Nintendo would want anything Virtual Boy-related as a big "legacy" representative for them, given how five games in and counting, there's barely anything from Nintendo's VB titles in Smash.

...maybe Mach Rider?

-I swapped Iori and Zero. I was initially hesitant about Iori as DLC, but upon further research, there's actually a lot of KOF and KOF-associated content not in Ultimate at the moment, so I see no harm in having him as DLC like what you guys suggested. Moving Zero back was also easy. Even though there's no visible room for it on here, I think Capcom would want a new IP of theirs to be DLC instead of a second Mega Man character.

-Decided to move around Greninja and Incineroar, upon multiple suggestions to do so. Though on the subject of veterans, I'm standing by my decision to cut Roy (and Chrom), mainly on the grounds that the former isn't too popular in his home series, was only included in Melee to promote his then-upcoming game, and then missed both Brawl and Smash 4's base game. I can't help but feel that if Smash 6 makes cuts, then it's finally time to retire the boy. As for Chrom, maybe he could be repurposed as an Ike echo if he proved popular enough to stay, but I'm unsure since his Ultimate inclusion felt very much like an afterthought anyway.

-Dropping Noah from the DLC section allowed me to add in one last prediction I'm pretty confident in, that being a slot for a Namco DLC character. I picked Lloyd, the Chosen Undead, and Nightmare as the top three frontrunners for this slot; Lloyd because of the popularity of the Tales series along with him being a requested character since Brawl, the Chosen Undead because of the extreme popularity of Dark Souls and its associated series, and Nightmare because he's a fighting game character who's also a swordsman, perfect for Sakurai! Though for a more serious reason, Soul Calibur does have direct history with Nintendo, thanks to Link being a guest fighter in the GCN version of Soul Calibur II.

-Changed the Atlus placeholder into just a Persona placeholder upon dream1ng's suggestion. That, and the fact that if the gap between Persona 4 and 5 is any indication, we're due for Persona 6 in roughly 2-3 years from now. While Garteam does have a point about Joker making a splash on Smash's community, knowing Atlus, they probably won't care and will want to push Persona 6 as the next big thing, and I imagine that the P6 protagonist will play very similar anyway, other than having a different main Persona replacing Arsene,

-Finally, I turned Doomguy's slot into a general placeholder slot for a Microsoft character, of which I see the aforementioned Doomguy as a potential frontrunner, along with Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot when the Activision buyout is finalized for the latter.

Also, I'm still sticking with Kris for the time being, but if the next Smash comes out and Deltarune still shows no indication of being remotely done, I'll probably take him off and replace him with someone else.

Apologies for taking a while to respond to the both of you. Even though this took me a bit, don't let that deter you from giving more in-depth feedback if you want to.

I think the roster continues to improve. Or at least, become more plausible. I don't have that much more to say about it other than I get why you've chosen slots like "Namco rep" and "Microsoft rep", because there's a number of ways each could go, but that's also not really how roster decisions work. Unless you're Terry, you weren't chosen to represent your company, you were chosen because of you or your series. So I would just choose one of the three possible choices for each and remove the variability. Sure when you hedge your bets there's a better chance of getting one right, but no one gets their prediction rosters perfect anyway. I'd opt for as few placeholders as possible, and proceeding by how the roster is actually formed.

 

[Gengar84]

I made a list that’s a bit of a mix between a Smash 6 prediction list as well as some of my own favorites that I feel still have a realistic shot. There are definitely a few characters that RodNutTakin and my list share but I went in a different direction with the other half.

Base game newcomers:

1) Noah and Mio (duo)
2) Akira Howard
3) Dixie Kong with Animal Buddies
4) Zoroark/Hisuian Zoroark
5) Octoling
6) Raven Beak
7) Impa (Hyrule Warriors design)
8) Waluigi
9) Medusa
10) Isaac
11) Bandana Dee
12) Dr. Eggman
13) Zero (Mega Man X design)
14) Xehanort (Ansem/Xemnas/Xehanort transformation)

Pass 1:

1) Scorpion and Sub-Zero (echoes with different specials)
2) Alphen and Shionne (transformation)
3) The Battletoads (alts)
4) Ryu Hyabusa
5) Magus/Guile (alts)
6) Sarah Kerrigan

Pass 2:

1) Jinx
2) Fulgore
3) Lu Bu
4) Bill Rizer/Lance Bean (alts)
5) Nightmare
6) Nemesis

I’ve already gone over why I think a lot of these characters may actually have a shot but I’d be happy to discuss my choices if anyone feels like doing so.

 

[ShadicMCGS]

looks at the Nintendo side

There's a reason I don't like most Nintendo Vs. Company fan rosters. Too much does the Nintendo side have next-to-no characters that aren't already in Smash Bros. I get that Smash Bros. probably has most of their well-known characters, but Smash Bros. should never be the Be-all/End-all for Nintendo rosters.
It's very sad for when I get curious and enthusiastic for what choices people do regarding other companies like Sega, Capcom, etc, but I get nothing but dread and un-enthusiasm when it comes towards what choices people do for Nintendo. Because more than 90% of the time, all but a couple of characters are characters already in Smash Bros. It just feels very unoriginal and uninspired.

Nintendo vs. SEGA (Potential Roster)
I made a roster using ConnorRentz's Roster Builder and I tried to diversify the roster, especially the Nintendo side, but only 8 of them aren't playable in Smash, so I think I failed on that part.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Nintendo vs. SEGA (Potential Roster)
I made a roster using ConnorRentz's Roster Builder and I tried to diversify the roster, especially the Nintendo side, but only 8 of them aren't playable in Smash, so I think I failed on that part.

Eh, don't feel too bad. Making a roster that DOESN'T use so many Smash characters is easier said than done...

 

[Gengar84]

Eh, don't feel too bad. Making a roster that DOESN'T use so many Smash characters is easier said than done...

Yeah, a lot of Nintendo characters in Smash are pretty much mainstays at this point and it would feel kind of wrong to remove them. I made a Nintendo Vs. Microsoft roster myself and tried to deviate as much as I could from Smash but those differences ended up disappointing people. I think a lot of people just get used to characters the way they are and don't really want to see too many changes. There are others that find the base Smash roster too boring of a choice for a crossover game so I tried to do my best to satisfy both.

I've shared this already but I spent hours on it and I don't think anyone really noticed it last time so I might as well show it again here since we're on the subject of Nintendo Vs. company crossovers.

Here's a few notes on the Nintendo roster changes, since you can't tell based on the images alone:

• Zelda's moveset is completely changed and now summons the Champions for her specials
• Ganondorf's moveset is revamped and is an amalgamation of all of his incarnations
• Impa uses her naginata moveset from Hyrule Warriors
• Pokemon Trainer uses Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur
• Hisuian Zoroark has a normal Zoroark alt
• Diddy and Dixie can tag in and out, like a transform mechanic
• Marth has alt outfits, like Hero of Lucina, Roy, and Chrom
• The same goes for Fox for Falco, Slippy, and Peppy as well as Star Wolf (assuming the models rig properly)
• This is also true for the Battletoads in the Microsoft section for Pimple and Zitz
• Samus' moveset is now based on Metroid Dread and has quite a few changes from Ultimate
• Dark Samus has a lot of changes as well and is now more faithful to its source material
• Nia rides on Dromarch's back and the two fight together
• Officer Howard has a female alt as well as a secret end game armor for both male and female

Nintendo:

1) Mario
2) Luigi
3) Bowser
4) Peach
5) Yoshi
6) Wario
7) Link
8) Zelda (with Champions)
9) Ganondorf
10) Impa
11) Pikachu
12) Pokémon Trainer (Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur)
13) Lucario
14) Zoroark/Hisuian Zoroark
15) Donkey Kong
16) Diddy and Dixie Kong
17) King K. Rool (Captain and Baron alts)
18) Fire Emblem Lords (Marth, Roy, Lucina, Chrom)
19) The Black Knight
20) Tharja
21) Edelgarde
22) Kirby
23) King Dedede
24)Meta Knight
25) Samus
26) Ridley
27) Dark Samus
28) Shulk
29) Elma
30) Nia and Dromarch
31) Star Fox/Wolf crew (for members that work)
32) Isabelle
33) Inkling
34) Pit
35) Medusa
36) Olimar
37) Captain Falcon
38) Akira Howard
39) Ness
40) Little Mac
41) Mach Rider
42) Isaac

Microsoft:

1) Master Chief
2) The Arbiter
3) Steve
4) Marcus Fenix
5) General RAAM
6) Ori
7) Cuphead (with Mugman alt)
8) Fable Avatar
9) Crackdown Agent
10) Blinx
11) The Battletoads (alts)
12) The Dark Queen
13) Fulgore
14) Black Orchid
15) Hisako
16) Banjo
17) Gruntilda
18) Conker
19) Joanna Dark
20) Kameo
21) Crash Bandicoot
22) Coco Bandicoot
23) Dr. Neo Cortex
24) Spyro
25) The Lich King
26) Thrall Hellscream
27) Illidan Stormrage
28) Sylvanas Windrunner
29) Sarah Kerrigan
30) Jim Raynor
31) Zeratul
32) Diablo
33) Tracer
34) D.Va
35) Reinhardt
36) Doom Slayer
37) Dovakhiin
38) B.J. Blaskowicz
39) Corvo Attano
40) Vault Boy
41) Raz
42) Clippy

 

[ShadicMCGS]

Eh, don't feel too bad. Making a roster that DOESN'T use so many Smash characters is easier said than done...

I bet the only YouTuber out there (I say YouTuber bc there might be some rando that can make a good one as well) that can make a decent Nintendo vs. SEGA roster is Thorgi from Thorgi's Arcade, but even he would struggle to make a good roster. (He's the guy that made One Piece FighterZ). Also, the only way I see having a balanced Nintendo side at least is if you have like 40-50 characters and have up to half of them non-Smash fighters, but that also means the other company has to have 40-50 characters... yeah it's just all out hard.

Now SEGA vs. Capcom? That's easier, but I personally rather a Nintendo vs. SEGA, so we can have a better crossover than the Olympics (it's half-good, half-ehh, but whatevs).

 

[dream1ng]

4) Zoroark/Hisuian Zoroark
6) E.M.M.I.
9) Medusa
13) Xehanort (Ansem/Xemnas/Xehanort transformation)

3) The Battletoads
5) Magus/Guile

3) Fulgore
6) Nemesis

Good luck with these

Yeah, a lot of Nintendo characters in Smash are pretty much mainstays at this point and it would feel kind of wrong to remove them. I made a Nintendo Vs. Microsoft roster myself and tried to deviate as much as I could from Smash but those differences ended up disappointing people. I think a lot of people just get used to characters the way they are and don't really want to see too many changes. There are others that find the base Smash roster too boring of a choice for a crossover game so I tried to do my best to satisfy both.

I've shared this already but I spent hours on it and I don't think anyone really noticed it last time so I might as well show it again here since we're on the subject of Nintendo Vs. company crossovers.

View attachment 350777

Here's a few notes on the Nintendo roster changes, since you can't tell based on the images alone:

• Zelda's moveset is completely changed and now summons the Champions for her specials
• Ganondorf's moveset is revamped and is an amalgamation of all of his incarnations
• Impa uses her naginata moveset from Hyrule Warriors
• Pokemon Trainer uses Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur
• Hisuian Zoroark has a normal Zoroark alt
• Diddy and Dixie can tag in and out, like a transform mechanic
• Marth has alt outfits, like Hero of Lucina, Roy, and Chrom
• The same goes for Fox for Falco, Slippy, and Peppy as well as Star Wolf (assuming the models rig properly)
• This is also true for the Battletoads in the Microsoft section for Pimple and Zitz
• Samus' moveset is now based on Metroid Dread and has quite a few changes from Ultimate
• Dark Samus has a lot of changes as well and is now more faithful to its source material
• Nia rides on Dromarch's back and the two fight together
• Officer Howard has a female alt as well as a secret end game armor for both male and female

Nintendo:

1) Mario
2) Luigi
3) Bowser
4) Peach
5) Yoshi
6) Wario
7) Link
8) Zelda (with Champions)
9) Ganondorf
10) Impa
11) Pikachu
12) Pokémon Trainer (Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur)
13) Lucario
14) Zoroark/Hisuian Zoroark
15) Donkey Kong
16) Diddy and Dixie Kong
17) King K. Rool (Captain and Baron alts)
18) Fire Emblem Lords (Marth, Roy, Lucina, Chrom)
19) The Black Knight
20) Tharja
21) Edelgarde
22) Kirby
23) King Dedede
24)Meta Knight
25) Samus
26) Ridley
27) Dark Samus
28) Shulk
29) Elma
30) Nia and Dromarch
31) Star Fox/Wolf crew (for members that work)
32) Isabelle
33) Inkling
34) Pit
35) Medusa
36) Olimar
37) Captain Falcon
38) Akira Howard
39) Ness
40) Little Mac
41) Mach Rider
42) Isaac

Microsoft:

1) Master Chief
2) The Arbiter
3) Steve
4) Marcus Fenix
5) General RAAM
6) Ori
7) Cuphead (with Mugman alt)
8) Fable Avatar
9) Crackdown Agent
10) Blinx
11) The Battletoads (alts)
12) The Dark Queen
13) Fulgore
14) Black Orchid
15) Hisako
16) Banjo
17) Gruntilda
18) Conker
19) Joanna Dark
20) Kameo
21) Crash Bandicoot
22) Coco Bandicoot
23) Dr. Neo Cortex
24) Spyro
25) The Lich King
26) Thrall Hellscream
27) Illidan Stormrage
28) Sylvanas Windrunner
29) Sarah Kerrigan
30) Jim Raynor
31) Zeratul
32) Diablo
33) Tracer
34) D.Va
35) Reinhardt
36) Doom Slayer
37) Dovakhiin
38) B.J. Blaskowicz
39) Corvo Attano
40) Vault Boy
41) Raz
42) Clippy

I bet the only YouTuber out there (I say YouTuber bc there might be some rando that can make a good one as well) that can make a decent Nintendo vs. SEGA roster is Thorgi from Thorgi's Arcade, but even he would struggle to make a good roster. (He's the guy that made One Piece FighterZ). Also, the only way I see having a balanced Nintendo side at least is if you have like 40-50 characters and have up to half of them non-Smash fighters, but that also means the other company has to have 40-50 characters... yeah it's just all out hard.

Now SEGA vs. Capcom? That's easier, but I personally rather a Nintendo vs. SEGA, so we can have a better crossover than the Olympics (it's half-good, half-ehh, but whatevs).

You could also take the MvC approach and simply not aim to have every important character in the company included, opting instead for a balance of iconic and unexpected.

 

[Gengar84]

Good luck with these



You could also take the MvC approach and simply not aim to have every important character in the company included, opting instead for a balance of iconic and unexpected.

Thanks (not sure whether that was sarcasm or not). I realize that those characters aren’t the most likely to be chosen but I think all of them still have a realistic shot. The only one that’s a bit of a stretch is Magus since there’s about a 90% chance they’d go with Crono over him. Magus has a much more distinct look than Crono and would have the unique ability to represent both Trigger and Cross along with Guile. I’ll admit that one’s a bit of a pipe dream but there’s at least some logic to it.

 

[Ivander]

Now SEGA vs. Capcom? That's easier, but I personally rather a Nintendo vs. SEGA, so we can have a better crossover than the Olympics (it's half-good, half-ehh, but whatevs).

Wish it was easier, or I mean, it should be easier, considering we did get an Archie Comic Crossover of Sega & Capcom.

Skies of Arcadia, Breath of Fire, Panzer Dragoon, Okami, Viewtiful Joe... Now if only we could get an actual game.

 

[dream1ng]

Thanks (not sure whether that was sarcasm or not). I realize that those characters aren’t the most likely to be chosen but I think all of them still have a realistic shot. The only one that’s a bit of a stretch is Magus since there’s about a 90% chance they’d go with Crono over him. Magus has a much more distinct look than Crono and would have the unique ability to represent both Trigger and Cross along with Guile. I’ll admit that one’s a bit of a pipe dream but there’s at least some logic to it.

Both, I guess. They're certainly not likely, and I don't think... well... any are particularly realistic (maybe Medusa as an echo, but even then still probably not) but to each their own.

 

[PeridotGX]

Eh, don't feel too bad. Making a roster that DOESN'T use so many Smash characters is easier said than done...

Awhile back I made a reboot roster that had as close to a 50/50 ratio of veterans to newcomers as I could get. I believe it's 26 veterans to 24 newcomers, and I could not justify cutting a single one of the remaining veterans that remained.

This was made before Metroid Dread released and Xenoblade 3 was revealed, so I would probably swap out Ridley and Elma for Raven Beak and Noah respectively (and there's a perfect 50/50)

 

[osby]

-Changed the Atlus placeholder into just a Persona placeholder upon dream1ng's suggestion. That, and the fact that if the gap between Persona 4 and 5 is any indication, we're due for Persona 6 in roughly 2-3 years from now. While Garteam does have a point about Joker making a splash on Smash's community, knowing Atlus, they probably won't care and will want to push Persona 6 as the next big thing, and I imagine that the P6 protagonist will play very similar anyway, other than having a different main Persona replacing Arsene,

If ATLUS was that insistent on only promoting their newest title, P3 and P4 wouldn't still get new games and crossover appearances a decade after their releases. If Joker is well-liked by the Smash community, I don't see a reason why would they try and force Sakurai to replace him.

Second, it doesn't seem very likely that the next protagonist will play similar to Joker, seeing he's very unique compared to other main characters. No protag before had the same penchant for acrobatics, a grappling hook, or a knife. Most of them also don't dual wield.

Overall, this feels like following an assumption of interchangeable main characters angle, which is simply not true for Persona.