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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

mynameisBlade

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Yes he did, actually. When explaining why Kazuya was picked in his showcase.

And stop moving the goalposts. The argument was that being in another platform fighter means they won't be in Smash and we have evidence to the contrary.
Doesn't matter if it's "AAA" or whatever (which....PSABR? AAA title? Sony certainly didn't treat it as such, lol)
I firmly believe we will never see any character from PSABR in Smash. Does that clarify it? You won't convince me. Sony not treating it as such doesn't change the potential it had. Don't get me wrong. I hate that game as it could've been much much better, but saying it didn't have AAA potential is silly.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I firmly believe we will never see any character from PSABR in Smash. Does that clarify it? You won't convince me. Sony not treating it as such doesn't change the potential it had.
Just because Sakurai is an alleged liar doesn't mean he wasn't telling the truth when talking about why Kazuya got in.
 

Gengar84

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I firmly believe we will never see any character from PSABR in Smash. Does that clarify it? You won't convince me. Sony not treating it as such doesn't change the potential it had. Don't get me wrong. I hate that game as it could've been much much better, but saying it didn't have AAA potential is silly.
I’m not sure that game was really big enough to influence Sakurai’s decision whether to add a character to Smash or not. That said, I don’t know if any of the characters in that game would have been particularly likely for Smash anyways given Sony’s stance on collaborating with other consoles.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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I firmly believe we will never see any character from PSABR in Smash. Does that clarify it? You won't convince me. Sony not treating it as such doesn't change the potential it had. Don't get me wrong. I hate that game as it could've been much much better, but saying it didn't have AAA potential is silly.
Not a hard bar to claim when most of them won't be in Smash anyway for reasons other than "they showed up in another platform fighter".
 

mynameisBlade

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Not a great attitude to have in speculation.
Not the worst either. I've had that belief SINCE PSABR released and nothing has proven me wrong thus far. As I stated originally, it is my personal theory and I stand by it. Even seeing Master Chief get into Fortnite automatically told me that Smash wasn't happening. Low and behold that gut feeling was correct.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Not the worst either. I've had that belief SINCE PSABR released and nothing has proven me wrong thus far. As I stated originally, it is my personal theory and I stand by it.
Helps that most are owned by Playstation and we're basically agreeing Playstation's not gonna play ball due to being Playstation.
 

Laniv

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The third official tier list just dropped:
There was a problem fetching the tweet
Assuming this is the Lumirank tier list, here's a Link:

:ultyounglink:

And here's the link to the tier list:



S Tier:

‍S+: Steve, Sonic, Snake

‍S: Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Pyra & Mythra, Kazuya

‍S-: Diddy Kong, Min Min, Fox, Peach/Daisy, Joker, Yoshi, Pikachu


A Tier:

‍A+: Roy, Olimar, Cloud, Luigi, Bayonetta, Samus/Dark Samus, Palutena, Mario

‍A: Corrin, Wario, Sora, Falco, Wolf, Hero

‍A-: Ryu, Shulk, Mii Brawler, Terry, Zero Suit Samus, Greninja, Pac-Man, Pokemon Trainer, Toon Link, Lucina


B Tier:

B+: Young Link, Pit/Dark Pit, Captain Falcon, Ken, Rosalina & Luma

‍B-: Ness, Sheik, Meta Knight, Mega Man, Inkling, Sephiroth, Byleth, Ice Climbers, Pichu, Donkey Kong


C Tier:

‍C+: Lucario, Banjo & Kazooie, Wii Fit Trainer, Chrom, Lucas, Mii Gunner, Incineroar

‍C-: Link, Ridley, Bowser, Duck Hunt, Kirby, Isabelle, Robin, Bowser Jr., Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, Marth


D Tier:

D: Mii Swordfighter, Zelda, Ike, Piranha Plant, Villager, King Dedede, King K. Rool, Simon/Richter, Dr. Mario


E Tier:

‍E: Little Mac, Ganondorf

The top three being all third-party characters whose names start with S is really funny to me
 

Guynamednelson

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Not the worst either. I've had that belief SINCE PSABR released and nothing has proven me wrong thus far. As I stated originally, it is my personal theory and I stand by it.
Sakurai literally said picking Kazuya has EVERYTHING to do with Kaz's Devil Gene powers and nothing to do with a ten-year-old game that was never all that popular. Just because you don't like that statement doesn't mean it isn't true.
 

Gengar84

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Speaking of other platform fighters, does anyone think there’s any chance of seeing any original characters from the genre appear as guests in Smash? Like, could we see a character from Rivals of Aether or Brawlhala? That would be pretty interesting.

So now we're using Fortnite as evidence?

I guess we gotta cut some characters like Ryu.
I think you misunderstood what they were saying. I think they were using Fortnite as something that makes Sony characters more feasible for Smash, not the other way around. It’s also my excuse to tie Jinx to Nintendo since that’s her only appearance on the console to my knowledge. It just shows that they’re open to collaboration.
 
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KingofPhantoms

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Not the worst either. I've had that belief SINCE PSABR released and nothing has proven me wrong thus far. As I stated originally, it is my personal theory and I stand by it. Even seeing Master Chief get into Fortnite automatically told me that Smash wasn't happening. Low and behold that gut feeling was correct.
I...fail to see how Chief getting into Fortnite correlates to whether or not any character would get into Smash, let alone Master Chief specifically.

What's your reasoning for this?
 

Guynamednelson

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I...fail to see how Chief getting into Fortnite correlates to whether or not any character would get into Smash, let alone Master Chief specifically
By that logic, is Street Fighter going to be repped by Ken without Ryu in Smash 6?
 

Ivander

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I firmly believe we will never see any character from PSABR in Smash. Does that clarify it? You won't convince me.
I don't mean to make it look like dogpiling, but this character from PSAS was outright acknowledged by Sakurai to be notably requested.

And Capcom is a very open participant in regards to Smash Bros.

And no, you can't use the argument that DmC Dante is a different character from DMC series Dante when DmC Dante is an Alternate costume for DMC series Dante in Marvel Infinite.
 

Wario Bros.

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Speaking of other platform fighters, does anyone think there’s any chance of seeing any original characters from the genre appear as guests in Smash? Like, could we see a character from Rivals of Aether or Brawlhala? That would be pretty interesting.
Brawlout has a rage meter that can either break combos (think of Killer Instinct's combo breaker) and a rage mode which increases power for a short time. One of the characters also has chargeable air moves

Wouldn't mind seeing those in Smash
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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I think you misunderstood what they were saying. I think they were using Fortnite as something that makes Sony characters more feasible for Smash, not the other way around. It’s also my excuse to tie Jinx to Nintendo since that’s her only appearance on the console to my knowledge. It just shows that they’re open to collaboration.
No, you clearly misunderstood.

He said and I quote: "Even seeing Master Chief get into Fortnite automatically told me that Smash wasn't happening. Low and behold that gut feeling was correct."

This isn't a matter of feasibility, this is a matter of "X character is in X game so they won't be in Smash".
 

BrawlX10

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I'm a little late on the SONY rep subject, but I think it'd be pretty cool to see these two in Smash.

Do you guys think a Sony rep is possible? My most wanted is Ratchet & Clank, but i don't even know if he's actually possible since he's technically owned by a competitor....but we have Microsoft in Smash....but also Microsoft is more lenient and well Banjo and Steve apareared in Nintendo platforms, so idk what to believe lmao.
 
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Gengar84

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No, you clearly misunderstood.

He said and I quote: "Even seeing Master Chief get into Fortnite automatically told me that Smash wasn't happening. Low and behold that gut feeling was correct."

This isn't a matter of feasibility, this is a matter of "X character is in X game so they won't be in Smash".
I was referring to Wario Bros.’ post about not ruling out Sony for Smash thanks to Fortnite and LEGO Horizons. I must have missed the post you were referring to. My apologies.
 

ninjahmos

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What the **** even is this debate? Just because a third-party character has been in a platform fighter before Smash doesn't mean they can't be in Smash.

Snake and Simon were in DreamMix TV World Fighters, and they got into Smash. So just because Ratchet & Clank (and other SONY reps) were in PSASBR doesn't mean they can't be in Smash.

Anyway, we all know that they probably won't be in Smash, since I don't see SONY playing ball.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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This isn't a matter of feasibility, this is a matter of "X character is in X game so they won't be in Smash".
We started the day with a Sony gatekeeper and now we're continuing it with more gatekeeping.

We truly move forwards here :4pacman:
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Anyway, we all know that they probably won't be in Smash, since I don't see SONY playing ball.
I think it's a mix of both Nintendo and Sony, with more on Nintendo's side.

I remember someone at Sony expressing approval at the idea of Kratos in Smash, for example.
 

Gengar84

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I think a Sony rep is possible but probably not particularly likely thanks to Sony’s stance. Although it seems like they might be opening up a little so I wouldn’t completely rule it out. I’m not sure if there’s any character that has a realistic chance I’d be super hyped to see though. The closest is probably Aloy since I did actually enjoy her game (haven’t played the sequel yet).
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Anyway, we all know that they probably won't be in Smash, since I don't see SONY playing ball.
We've never had an explicit statement of it but I don't think it's a coincidence that Nintendo completely abandoned EVO the second it became Sony-owned.
 

BrawlX10

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What the **** even is this debate? Just because a third-party character has been in a platform fighter before Smash doesn't mean they can't be in Smash.

Snake and Simon were in DreamMix TV World Fighters, and they got into Smash. So just because Ratchet & Clank (and other SONY reps) were in PSASBR doesn't mean they can't be in Smash.

Anyway, we all know that they probably won't be in Smash, since I don't see SONY playing ball.
Back in the day (2010-2012) some people actually throgh guest apareances in other fightin games, not just platform fighters decomfrimed characters in Smash.
Some stubborn dude told me in like 2013 that Pac-Man was not going to be in Smash 4 because he was in Street Fighter x Tekken lol.
 
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Wario Bros.

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Didnt Sony want that woman from robot dinosaur game in smash?
Either way Parappa/Lammy or Ape Escape would be my only choices for a Sony Rep.
Herman Hulst of Guerrilla said, “That’d be nice. If you speak to Nintendo and they want to invite us let me know.”
 

Ivander

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We've never had an explicit statement of it but I don't think it's a coincidence that Nintendo completely abandoned EVO the second it became Sony-owned.
Wasn't it after the incident at EVO that also involved a bunch of Smash Bros players? Like that incident was ultimately the reason why EVO lost so much support and money and it was enough for Sony to buy them, but I could've swore that one particular EVO was also the last time Nintendo had Smash Bros appear there even before Sony bought EVO.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Back in the day (2010-2012) some people actually throgh guest apareances in other fightin games, not just platform fighters decomfrimed characters in Smash.
Some stubborn dude told me in like 2013 that Pac-Man was not going to be in Smash 4 because he was in Street Fighter x Tekken lol.
We really haven't changed much then, have we? 😔
 

Gengar84

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Didnt Sony want that woman from robot dinosaur game in smash?
Either way Parappa/Lammy or Ape Escape would be my only choices for a Sony Rep.
I’m pretty sure you’re referring to Aloy from Horizon. If so, that’s the first I’ve heard of it.

What’s weird is that I’ve owned every PlayStation from PS1-PS4 as well as PSP but none of their first party games ever really resonated with me the way Nintendo’s have. I’d say the closest for me is the Dark Cloud and Rogue Galaxy games but they were made by Level 5 and just owned by Sony.
 

Idon

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We've never had an explicit statement of it but I don't think it's a coincidence that Nintendo completely abandoned EVO the second it became Sony-owned.
Wouldn't it be the other way around then with Nintendo not wanting to play ball?

Nintendo left of their own accord while Sony requested they come back when they want to.
 

mynameisBlade

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Sakurai literally said picking Kazuya has EVERYTHING to do with Kaz's Devil Gene powers and nothing to do with a ten-year-old game that was never all that popular. Just because you don't like that statement doesn't mean it isn't true.
I can def see that. It all works out toward the theory regardless. Whether coincidence or irony, the theory is still holding strong. Maybe this next Smash will debunk my custom crafted ideals.

I...fail to see how Chief getting into Fortnite correlates to whether or not any character would get into Smash, let alone Master Chief specifically.

What's your reasoning for this?
Simple. It doesn't. It's my own personal speculation that I'll gladly let go of once it has been proven wrong.
 
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Thegameandwatch

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The third official tier list just dropped. Here’s a link.
According to the website, Simon despite being not being in E tier, was actually voted as the worst character by Japanese players. Like the case since Brawl, Pikachu was ranked lower by Japanese players but it’s the opposite in the Latin America.

The Top 3 are characters that start with the letter S and each have 5 letters in their name.

Toon Link is currently the highest ranked Link in the A- tier. Young Link is slowly declining while regular Link is an example of a potential character.

Ike is still ranked the worst Fire Emblem character and worst sword character outside of Ganondorf.

Falco is now ranked higher then Wolf.
 

BrawlX10

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Dark Cloud
Dark Cloud mentioned.
Dark Cloud is probably one of my favourite series, my profile pic is Osmond a character from Dark Cloud, actually.

As for Sony, like i said earlier i don't know what to believe with their chances lol.
But i do think it's definitely possible they could play the ball, not particularely likely, but not impossible either, i think it also depends of the characters, i think they'll be more open to play the ball with Aloy than Kratos or Ratchet and Clank, just speculating here.
Even through, i obviously prefer Ratchet, i think Aloy would still be a fine choice, she would have a interest moveset and stage potential. I also think she would still atract people who generally don't play Smash games as Horizon is a pretty popular series.
 

mynameisBlade

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I don't mean to make it look like dogpiling, but this character from PSAS was outright acknowledged by Sakurai to be notably requested.

And Capcom is a very open participant in regards to Smash Bros.

And no, you can't use the argument that DmC Dante is a different character from DMC series Dante when DmC Dante is an Alternate costume for DMC series Dante in Marvel Infinite.
That isn't the Dante we got in PSABR. OG Capcom Dante is of course still on the table.... That abomination in PSABR is not Dante.. It's like OG Freddy Krueger vs Remake Freddy. Them sharing the same name means nothing. Most people looked at that "remake Dante" and immediately threw it in the garbage mentally. I was one of those people.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I think a Sony rep is possible but probably not particularly likely thanks to Sony’s stance. Although it seems like they might be opening up a little so I wouldn’t completely rule it out. I’m not sure if there’s any character that has a realistic chance I’d be super hyped to see though. The closest is probably Aloy since I did actually enjoy her game (haven’t played the sequel yet).
Well I can't argue about Snake vs. Monkey still being exclusive to PS2 versions of MGS3 anymore, because:
The Steam page for MGS Delta outright confirms the PC version will have Snake vs. Monkey with a Pipo Monkey GIF, while
The Xbox page hints that the Xbox version will have it by saying it has the bonus mode "Snake vs. ????" (as if Sony owns the concept of monkeys in video games)
 

ninjahmos

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Well I can't argue about Snake vs. Monkey still being exclusive to PS2 versions of MGS3 anymore, because:
The Steam page for MGS Delta outright confirms the PC version will have Snake vs. Monkey with a Pipo Monkey GIF, while
The Xbox page hints that the Xbox version will have it by saying it has the bonus mode "Snake vs. ????" (as if Sony owns the concept of monkeys in video games)
Here's the Xbox trailer:

 

Swamp Sensei

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That isn't the Dante we got in PSABR. OG Capcom Dante is of course still on the table.... That abomination in PSABR is not Dante.. It's like OG Freddy Krueger vs Remake Freddy. Them sharing the same name means nothing. Most people looked at that "remake Dante" and immediately threw it in the garbage mentally. I was one of those people.
This is eerily similar to "we can still get Ridley in Smash 4, the stage hazard is technically a clone," style argument.
 
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