Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[RileyXY1]

IIRC, the reason given for why "Everyone is Here!" was such a problem was due to the sheer number of characters being a huge drain on dev time.

50 I think is like, the bear minimum, but I don't think we'll be approaching 70 like we did last time.

Yeah. It's why the number of unique newcomers and new stages were severely cut down compared to prior games.

 

[Gengar84]

IIRC, the reason given for why "Everyone is Here!" was such a problem was due to the sheer number of characters being a huge drain on dev time.

50 I think is like, the bear minimum, but I don't think we'll be approaching 70 like we did last time.

If it’s true that the game has been in development since early 2022 and we’re not getting Smash until holiday of 2025 at the absolute earliest, I think that’s plenty of time for a large roster. If we don’t get Smash until holiday of 2026, I don’t see any reason at all why we couldn’t match Ultimate’s base roster size. That would be a longer development time than any previous Smash game, including Ultimate itself if I’m correct.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

The one thing that should be added is more alternative costumes because it’s common for the newer characters to have them but not as much for the older characters.

An example is giving Toon Link his Spirit Tracks design as an alt. Same with his Outset Island design.

 

[Gengar84]

The one thing that should be added is more alternative costumes because it’s common for the newer characters to have them but not as much for the older characters.

An example is giving Toon Link his Spirit Tracks design as an alt. Same with his Outset Island design.

Yeah, I’d love that. What I think would be really cool is if every character had at least one model swap outfit you unlock by completing their classic mode. Other characters can have more than one if there’s enough material to work with.

 

[RileyXY1]

If it’s true that the game has been in development since early 2022 and we’re not getting Smash until holiday of 2025 at the absolute earliest, I think that’s plenty of time for a large roster. If we don’t get Smash until holiday of 2026, I don’t see any reason at all why we couldn’t match Ultimate’s base roster size. That would be a longer development time than any previous Smash game, including Ultimate itself if I’m correct.

Although due to pre-release cycles I can't see a 2025 release for Smash 6 unless they are doing Everyone is Here again, as there wouldn't be enough time to do a Brawl and Smash 4-styled prerelease period.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

And I'm not sure if that many assets from her are reusable from Palutena's guidance. Voice clips by and large get reused but voice clips are one thing, they'd still need to spend time and resources into tranferring and updating a character, and Palutena is a non-clone so she has no ease of development on top of the aforementioned issues.

Plus, stuff like Palutena's Guidance probably isn't done or decided on until every character in the base roster is already selected and (mostly) finished.

 

[Gengar84]

Although due to pre-release cycles I can't see a 2025 release for Smash 6 unless they are doing Everyone is Here again, as there wouldn't be enough time to do a Brawl and Smash 4-styled prerelease period.

All the more reason to expect a larger roster if we’re not getting Smash until late next year. I think Sakurai realizes how big of an appeal the large roster is. It’s not purely the size of the roster that matters alone, but a larger roster means more variety and a higher chance that everyone will find at least a few characters to be excited about. A smaller roster doesn’t only mean more cuts, but it also severely limits what kind of newcomers we might get. I think most secondary third party characters like Zero, Shadow, or Chun-Li are basically off the table at that point.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

All the more reason to expect a larger roster if we’re not getting Smash until late next year. I think Sakurai realizes how big of an appeal the large roster is. It’s not purely the size of the roster that matters alone, but a larger roster means more variety and a higher chance that everyone will find at least a few characters to be excited about. A smaller roster doesn’t only mean more cuts, but it also severely limits what kind of newcomers we might get. I think most secondary third party characters like Zero, Shadow, or Chun-Li are basically off the table at that point.

Actually, I think the 1st parties suffer more than 3rd parties. If the 3rd party character stays, another from that series is fair game, whereas if a 1st party from a series with a small amount of characters gets any cuts at all, they pretty much can't get any newcomers since their bases are no longer covered, and adding another character from a smaller series that already has one is more difficult to justify.

 

[Gengar84]

Actually, I think the 1st parties suffer more than 3rd parties. If the 3rd party character stays, another from that series is fair game, whereas if a 1st party from a series with a small amount of characters gets any cuts at all, they pretty much can't get any newcomers since their bases are no longer covered, and adding another character from a smaller series that already has one is more difficult to justify.

That’s certainly possible but I think you have to keep in mind that Smash is still primarily a Nintendo crossover with guest fighters. I’m not sure if they’d cut mostly first party characters but leave the third party ones. Part of the reason why EiH was so difficult was the licensing involved. Plus, I think they’d still want the roster to favor first party over third party. A larger roster gives us plenty of room for both.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If Sakurai continues to work on Smash there's a good chance Joker and Terry come back, since those were his specific picks.

I hope they adjust the Mementos stage to include the extra party members added in sequel stories

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That’s certainly possible but I think you have to keep in mind that Smash is still primarily a Nintendo crossover with guest fighters. I’m not sure if they’d cut mostly first party characters but leave the third party ones. Part of the reason why EiH was so difficult was the licensing involved. Plus, I think they’d still want the roster to favor first party over third party. A larger roster gives us plenty of room for both.

Yeah, but you're talking about newcomers from the 3rd party series that are highly likely to stick around. If you were thinking a character from Bayonetta or Persona or something, then yeah, that's probably not happening. Though that does come with the "if" of them not sticking around. I really don't know what's happening with the 3rd parties aside from being fairly confident in Sonic, Pac-Man, Mega Man, and Street Fighter sticking around.

In the case of Mega Man, I could see the blue bomber getting replaced by X or Zero. Final Fantasy could also get characters not from VII instead of Cloud since it's got a rotating cast.

 

[Gengar84]

If Sakurai continues to work on Smash there's a good chance Joker and Terry come back, since those were his specific picks.

I hope they adjust the Mementos stage to include the extra party members added in sequel stories

That would be cool. I’m actually not familiar with the bottom character. Is he from the handheld Q game? I know that game had a similar Chibi art style.

Yeah, but you're talking about newcomers from the 3rd party series that are highly likely to stick around. If you were thinking a character from Bayonetta or Persona or something, then yeah, that's probably not happening. Though that does come with the "if" of them not sticking around. I really don't know what's happening with the 3rd parties aside from being fairly confident in Sonic, Pac-Man, Mega Man, and Street Fighter sticking around.

In the case of Mega Man, I could see the blue bomber getting replaced by X or Zero. Final Fantasy could also get characters not from VII instead of Cloud since it's got a rotating cast.

I’d love Zero or X and actually prefer them to classic Mega Man but I’m not sure if that’s something Smash would do. Smash tends to favor the original game, though there are some exceptions like Cloud and Joker. I feel like Finsl Fantasy VII is too beloved to swap Cloud out for someone like Terra or Clive, especially since the FFVII remakes are still ongoing. I don’t really have any idea what’s going to happen either, I’m just going with what my gut is telling me.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

That would be cool. I’m actually not familiar with the bottom character. Is he from the handheld Q game? I know that game had a similar Chibi art style.

He's Toshiro from the tactics game.

He's a young politician who got mixed up in phantom thief shenanigans.

 

[Louie G.]

Palutena doesn't quite strike hard in these categories (even among the most requested ones - as from my understanding it's most that she was very expected rather than very requested).

Your opinion on Palutena is fine, I’ve got my disagreements but I mostly want to focus on this bit. Because it’s an easy assumption to make, but it’s not true.

As someone who was very active here and in the community during Smash 4 speculation, Palutena really was that popular. At the same time, she was highly expected. These things didn’t really contradict one another, a similar phenomenon happened with Little Mac. Our preferences just overlapped nicely with Smash’s own here.

Palutena was one of four newcomers whose popularity towered over the others, earning the “Elite Four” label. She shared this space with Little Mac, Ridley and King K. Rool… pretty heavy hitters. Although Palutena is technically an old character, she notably feels like the one here that isn’t legacy-influenced. Instead her standout appearance in Uprising a few years prior won her a flurry of new fans, and it’s not hard to understand why. Honestly kind of impressive to achieve this - nowadays we have a pretty solid wedge stuck between those who are more relevant and expected, and those massively popular fan picks thriving off nostalgia and legacy. Palutena managed to bridge that gap.

Here’s an old graphic I have on hand from the old Rate Their Chances thread, informed by each character’s “Want” score. It’s not “Elite Four” but its close - Mega Man was promptly retired from the crew after E3 and Mewtwo was deemed the Elite Four’s “Champion”.

Assuming this is an ordered list, Palutena was actually outperforming Little Mac and Ridley at the time. Probably not in sheer popularity but I suppose in “agreeability”. Nearly everyone liked her.

Is she as popular right this very moment as she was in 2013? Probably not, but once upon a time she was on top of the food chain. I don’t think all those people who wanted her in the game stopped loving her, anyway. I definitely haven’t, and I feel like among those who Smash introduced to her for the first time she’s grown into quite the prestigious and fun character in her own right. Not quite saying she’s a surefire lock to return but she is a genuinely popular character.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Maybe it's just because I completely missed the boat on Uprising (heard lefties would struggle without a peripheral and just tuned out the game as a result) but it still surprises me how well-regarded palutena was in the pre-4 days.

Maybe it's also because I genuinely hate fighting her as my main (Terry). Lady has every base covered if you're playing her well, it's Sol guilty gear levels of miserable to figure out the gameplan I swear

 

[smashkirby]

If we can move away from cuts/Ult. DX for the idk-how-many-eth time, let's talk characters that have been gone for a while. Not "retro" characters specifically, but any smaller/one-off character/franchise that's been gone for 10+ years.

What are some characters who you'd like to make a comeback with a redesign like Pit did in Brawl? How would you go about redesigning them?

I think this'll differ pretty wildly from person to person, so I think it'd make for a fun topic.

For me, I'd like to see characters like Muddy Mole and the Prince of Sable, but I'd actually keep their looks as faithful as possible.

Characters who I would change would be the Urban Champion and Barbara the Bat. For UC, I'd much prefer they make an interpretation based on his sprite rather than the key art for the game. For Barbara, I'd probably update her face/hairstyle and give more bat-like features like large ears and bat wings since she lacks them. The latter of which also serving in game play to give her multiple jumps.

I guess... Mach Rider, Excitebiker, Urban Champ, Solar Striker, and Mike Jones?

I'd like to mention that I'd like for Mach Rider's redesign in particular to be based on the design we saw them with in Melee, and the OG red-white-and-blue color scheme would be an alt. costume.

The thing with other characters I have in mind is that I think it'd be more interesting to see them in Smash in a way where it feels like they were just ripped straight out of their game, but you know... they'd be in 3D.

For example, I had a discussion with someone here (I don't remember who at the moment) about Michael Anderson from Battle Clash into Smash Bros., and I came up with the idea that his 90's future-punk could be featured in Smash Bros. wholesale as I thought 'modernizing' him would do him a disservice.

A similar thought came to my mind for folks like Naomi Moriha and Jonathan Raimi who I feel have designs that don't come off as 'dated', so they could be added to Smash as-is.

I used TierMaker again, and here’s a thing I made with it for what I’d like to see in the next game.
View attachment 398659

Ngl, I really vibe with this roster! A bit disappointed that Valkyrie, Tifa. Rex, Goroh, Urban Champ, Excitebiker, Sukapon, Prince Sable, Saki, Barbara, Dillon, and Nakoruru are ATs, but you can't win them all I guess.

What I think happens: No cuts, Noah and Mio are added as separate characters, Noah sharing a bit from Shulk and Mio being completely unique.

What I want: Pythra get replaced with Rex and Pyra like it was meant to be, Noah and Mio are in as a pair as well, and Elma is there too.

Hot take, but your "want" is legit sort of my dream Xenoblade roster here... I assume Mythra is part of that Rex/Pyra team?

OK, just out of curiosity…

How do you guys feel about scrolling stages?

No issue with them whatsoever, really. Heck, seeing how recent stage mods people have made usually result in a Battlefield/F.D. reskin has made me appreciate them even more, honestly.

I don't outright hate any stage. But I don't like very many scrolling stages. I guess my favorite would be... Orbital Gate Assault actually.

That one is so crazy, that I have to love it.

When I tell you how bummed out I was that the first Star Fox stage to finally beat out Corneria as my favorite S.F. stage got cut after one game...

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

About those people bombarding Sakurai with Smash character requests on Twitter or X…

They probably don’t realize that, assuming development for Smash 6 has begun if that is Sakurai’s project, that playable characters would be decided far in advance long ago during the beginning of planning to for the game. In fact, with that, I would say they don’t realize that “slots” are not taken up, especially since the characters are decided long before the reveal of the game, so saying that characters take up slots, especially after a game like Smash is revealed to the public, is inaccurate. Sakurai is not going to add more characters beyond what is planned at the beginning of development without good reason.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

If Sakurai continues to work on Smash there's a good chance Joker and Terry come back, since those were his specific picks.

I hope they adjust the Mementos stage to include the extra party members added in sequel stories

Speaking of Sakurai’s character pick I wonder who would be his character picks for the next smash game?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Do we know that though? Sakurai said he didn’t think they’d be able to pull off “Everyone is Here” again, not that the roster would be drastically smaller if I remember correctly. The huge variety of characters to play is a big selling point in Smash. The crossover appeal is diminished the farther we scale back the roster.

Even if Sakurai can't pull off EiH2, I'm not expecting Smash 6 to have fewer characters at launch than Ultimate did.

That'd be going backwards, and I just don't see Sakurai doing that.

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of Sakurai’s character pick I wonder who would be his character picks for the next smash game?

Yeah, that’s a good question but I feel like it’s almost impossible to predict. I can only guess based on the types of characters he’s seemed to gravitate towards before but I really have no clue.

If I’m going to throw out a wild guess, I feel like Jinx seems like the type of character Sakurai would like. She actually has a lot of the same appeal Joker did going into Ultimate. She’s a huge breakout character in pop culture who no one really expects due to weaker Nintendo ties. She’s also got a similar rebellious energy to Joker and her story is just as captivating and emotional as the Persona games. Jinx has a vibrant and colorful design that would really stand out in Smash. She’d also give us another major female character as well as a villain/antihero depending on which version they go with. Smash doesn’t have a female villain or antihero yet so she’d bring a lot of variety to the series. The question is whether Sakurai is familiar enough with her or her series since it’s a Western property.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Jinx is a weird one for me because while I'd say she definitely defines what league of legends is for most of the public consciousness... That iteration basically originated from the cartoon, and not the games. I know that version of her (along with some other characters) was backported to league (did they overwrite the original versions of those characters? I'm still fuzzy on the details) and eventually 2xko, but I still think it'd be weird if the character that'd get into smash to represent League... was the one that got in mostly on merits that were related to an animated adaption rather than the game itself.

I guess that'd be like representing cyberpunk with am edge runners character but guilty gear is literally doing that for some forsaken reason so what do I know...