Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My problem with Meowscarada (aside from not really liking her design) is that I don't see the vision with its flower gimmick. Like, it's supposed to be able to deceive opponents with it, but I just don't see how they could do that since its range seems to be pretty limited, and also, it's a very conspicuous floating flower.

I suppose Sakurai could ignore it like he did Incineroar's crotch flamethrower, but that leaves me with not a whole lot to go on. I suppose that's me being uncreative since I'm sure the stage magician angle could do a lot, but I just can't picture it.

 

[Opossum]

While I have my doubts on Waluigi in spite him being my most wanted overall, the dumb Wah/11 memes made by three idiots isn't going to mean anything.

If it were a matter of what a fanbase did when they didn't get their character, we wouldn't have gotten since his fanbase doesn't exactly have clean hands on the matter....

....and even when they did get their character there was some depravity involved. Typically towards Ashley and her fanbase.

Shout out to the Rayman thread on this very site having multiple people hurl death threats toward Artsy Omni over the Rayman hoax.

Two idiots on twitter genuinely mean nothing, especially since the posts were in English, no less.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My problem with Meowscarada is people are usually speculating them for the wrong reasons.

I actually think they have a really solid chance of being chosen if we get a Gen 9 Pokemon, but not because they're grass or even because they're popular... it's because just like Greninja and Incineroar before it, Meowscarada has a distinct archetype to build off for a fun moveset. A "magician" with flashy spectacle and disorienting illusionary moves could be a lot of fun and I would see that inspiring something in Sakurai even amongst the competition.

I feel like if more people argued for it on that front, there would be less debate to be had. But the damage is already done on the obligatory grass type speculation where I think many people just don't want to resign to that again. Maybe they'll stumble into being right this time though.

Reminds me of how literally no one talked about Inteleon despite being basically James Bond.

Would it have been possible that the spy angle would've won Sakurai over the other starters?

 

[Louie G.]

Reminds me of how literally no one talked about Inteleon despite being basically James Bond.

Would it have been possible that the spy angle would've won Sakurai over the other starters?

True, Sakurai could revisit some of those old Melee concepts that definitely existed

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

You're gonna get Hisuian Decidueye since there's no wrestler for him to, well, wrestle against and you're going to love it!

Funny you mention that. Since there is an off-chance Sakurai might have seen the Hisuian variant and wants to revisit tthe concept he didn't choose last time since the opportunity is there.

But it would be in addition to the Gen 9 Pokémon rather than in place of.

 

[Idon]

My problem with Meowscarada (aside from not really liking her design) is that I don't see the vision with its flower gimmick. Like, it's supposed to be able to deceive opponents with it, but I just don't see how they could do that since its range seems to be pretty limited, and also, it's a very conspicuous floating flower.

I suppose Sakurai could ignore it like he did Incineroar's crotch flamethrower, but that leaves me with not a whole lot to go on. I suppose that's me being uncreative since I'm sure the stage magician angle could do a lot, but I just can't picture it.

I mean obviously the flower just isn't out all the time.
It'll just be pulled out of nowhere like every other exploding thing in the game.

It uses thin piano wire to manipulate the flower, thus the evolution from yo-yo so I imagine a large amount of moveset will draw from that, sorta like a more in-depth version of Joker's upB mechanics.

 

[RileyXY1]

So actually, with all this talk I figured I would break down how this character balance has panned out over the last 15+ years. How much emphasis is put on the previous generation, and so forth. Will only be accounting for first party characters, and excluding echo fighters.

Brawl's proposal was drafted in 2005. Most additions were relevant through the Gamecube / GBA era or introduced during it, and the characters were chosen at a transitional period between generations. Lucario is the sole DS character. Note that Wario is able to play both sides here, I put him in the former since he's clearly not "new" but he does serve to represent a notable new IP from the previous GBA era.

- Recurring characters from currently active IP
- New characters / concepts from previous / current era
- Legacy

Smash 4's proposal was 2012. Lot of the same stuff going on here, and 2012 was comfortably the cutoff point between the Wii and the Wii U. Brawl's roster did not touch the Wii at all, so Smash 4 picked up the slack. The dawn of the 3DS is represented fruitfully here too. DS is done a bit dirty, it feels.

- Recurring characters from currently active IP
* - New characters / concepts from previous / current era
- Legacy

And then Ultimate's proposal in early 2016. The Switch was a year on the horizon and the Wii U / 3DS years were wrapping up, DLC allowed them to pick up the slack on a couple early Switch titles that missed the timeframe and one fresh in-the-moment add in Byleth like Corrin before them.

- Fan request
- New characters / concepts from previous era
- Post-release Switch era characters
- Piranha Plant

Coincidental or otherwise, every new Smash seems to be drafted at the tail end of a generation. And the character focus has consistently been at least 50% fixated on bringing in the fresh blood from that previous generation, to keep the roster fresh and up-to-date. So while a draft in 2021 is possible, it would be a notable formula break compared to somewhere around 2023 during a transitional period - more accurate to the series' usual flow, and roster emphasis. I honestly have a hard time crafting a Brawl-like roster of newcomers with the limited timeframe that 2021 gives us to explore.

This even applies to 64 and Melee as well. 64 took quite a bit of its newcomer choices from the SNES as much as it did from the N64, especially with their choices of Samus and Ness who had 0 presence whatsoever on the N64 outside of Smash. And Melee, due to being a launch title for the GameCube, was forced to look at the N64's library for newcomer choices, with the biggest influences being Star Fox 64, Super Mario 64, and especially The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Shout out to the Rayman thread on this very site having multiple people hurl death threats toward Artsy Omni over the Rayman hoax.

Two idiots on twitter genuinely mean nothing, especially since the posts were in English, no less.

Unrelated but now I'm remembering how people got blocked by Sakurai on Twitter for playing tic-tac-toe on Haru's forehead and that's hilarious.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Shout out to the Rayman thread on this very site having multiple people hurl death threats toward Artsy Omni over the Rayman hoax.

Is it bad to say that this incident (along with a few other factors) is why my eyes tend to glaze past people who still suggest Rayman

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean obviously the flower just isn't out all the time.
It'll just be pulled out of nowhere like every other exploding thing in the game.

It uses thin piano wire to manipulate the flower, thus the evolution from yo-yo so I imagine a large amount of moveset will draw from that, sorta like a more in-depth version of Joker's upB mechanics.

On the one hand, the flower is attached to Meowscarada's body, so it is always out, but on the other I suppose since the lore is that the stem has fur that makes it invisible it's not unreasonable to take creative liberties and say the flower can go invisible too...

With the mention of yo-yos and Joker's grappling hook, I'm now picturing Bridget, but a magician and I guess that's an interesting enough starting concept.

 

[Golden Icarus]

After putting it off for seven years, I finally finished BotW (and TotK, which I played first because no one tells me what to do). I have many thoughts if anyone wants to derail into Zelda talk. I’m gonna collapse it though because these are mostly random thoughts and contain spoilers. Anyway…

Spoiler

I played 50+ hours of TotK at launch, took a long break, and then finished it a year later. I remember finding Rauru genuinely compelling and I liked the Smash fandom's concept of having him utilize zonai powers for his moveset. But after beating the game and rewatching his cutscenes...I don't know. It's one of those things that I find cool and exciting conceptually, but honestly he really never shined quite as much as I hoped he would. I've seen people compare his significance to Palutena or Rosalina, which matches up pretty well, but it still feels like he's missing a certain oomph. He does have a decently important and active role, but he really didn't leave a huge impression, even though I actively wanted him to.

...Ganondorf on the other hand. Holy **** what an incredible boss fight. Like easily one of my favorite final bosses in recent memory. Maybe top 5 favorite boss fights of all time (along with Raven Beak. Nintendo's killing it with their grand finales lately!). I've reached a state of acceptance with how Ganondorf is treated in Smash and I've even grown to like the idea of adding Ganon in addition to Falcondorf in order to get the best of both worlds. But now I'm back to preferring the idea of just overhauling Ganondorf. Truly, now is the time and I'd prefer it over any other totally new Zelda character they could add.

Speaking of new characters...yeah the Champions and Sages are cool, but it really is difficult to pick a stand out. I agree with the popular opinion that Urbosa is the coolest and has the best design, but is still no more important than the others and unfortunately is probably the least distinct in terms of gameplay / design. She's cool enough to be satisfying as the first new Zelda character outside of the main three, but if we're holding back Impa for being "just another sheikah," then getting a gerudo who wields a sword and shield feels just as underwhelming conceptually.

I think Mipha and Daruk are my favorite choices for potential Smash characters. Aesthetically unique, boast unique weapons and represent iconic races that aren't currently in Smash. You can also give them alts of Ruto and Darunia, representing both the BotW and OoT duologies. I like Revali as well and just broadly speaking, I do prefer the Champions over the Sages, but similar to Rauru, I honestly expected them to leave more of an impact on me than they did. Most of them just get a couple moments to shine and are largely carried by how well-designed they are.

BotW and TotK have both become my two favorite Zelda games. I wish I felt more strongly about its chances for a new Smash character, given the success of the games and the fact that the Zelda series is perfectly ripe for more Smash characters. But I get why Sakurai sticks to the triforce because even though I actively wanted to want a brand new character, I still found myself more excited about the different changes that can be made to Link, Zelda and Ganondorf.

It's difficult to consider the actual likely hood of anyone because Zelda just doesn't get newcomers, but I do feel that popularity / unique playstyle potential > relevancy / significance. If we're gonna get someone, then I think it'll take raw fan demand, or Sakurai's eye being drawn to a specific playstyle. Every character, even Rauru and even Impa, still feel leagues behind the main three in terms of significance.

 

[Louie G.]

This even applies to 64 and Melee as well. 64 took quite a bit of its newcomer choices from the SNES as much as it did from the N64, especially with their choices of Samus and Ness who had 0 presence whatsoever on the N64 outside of Smash. And Melee, due to being a launch title for the GameCube, was forced to look at the N64's library for newcomer choices, with the biggest influences being Star Fox 64, Super Mario 64, and especially The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

You're not wrong, I just excluded them because they're more foundational rosters and I felt like Brawl is the first roster we can look at decided through more conventional means. Melee still had to add obvious characters like Peach, Bowser and Zelda that I don't even think can be judged in an equivalent light.

For the sake of conversation though...

- Arcade / Famicom (Evergreen)
- Super Famicom (Previous Generation)
- Current Generation 1999

- Major character from Active IP
- New character / concept from previous / current generation 2001
- Legacy
- Sakurai liked that one song from his game

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

- Sakurai liked that one song from his game

This made me laugh so hard lmao

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Smash 4 got to see out the Wii, the remainder of the DS and the beginning of the 3DS with a roster from 2011.

Although one fact is that despite the 3DS being recent when Smash 4 was planned, there are actually more reps from the 3DS then on DS. (6 vs 1).

The only DS rep (Lucario) appeared in other stuff for promotional stuff so it’s not even fully accurate.

 

[Noipoi]

Man, now I need some cheering up lol.

YOU LOOK NICE TODAY!

YOU’RE GOOD AT THE THINGS YOU DO!!

PEOPLE SAY NICE THINGS ABOUT YOU WHEN YOU AREN’T LOOKING!!!

 

[Gengar84]

YOU LOOK NICE TODAY!

YOU’RE GOOD AT THE THINGS YOU DO!!

PEOPLE SAY NICE THINGS ABOUT YOU WHEN YOU AREN’T LOOKING!!!

Thanks man!

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

- Sakurai liked that one song from his game

This made me laugh so hard lmao

I'm just picturing Sakurai at his desk going:

While rocking back and forth.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

On the one hand, the flower is attached to Meowscarada's body, so it is always out, but on the other I suppose since the lore is that the stem has fur that makes it invisible it's not unreasonable to take creative liberties and say the flower can go invisible too...

With the mention of yo-yos and Joker's grappling hook, I'm now picturing Bridget, but a magician and I guess that's an interesting enough starting concept.

Well, the stem of the floating flower is hidden by reflective fur on the cape to give it the illusion of floating, and according to Bulbapedia, "In a battle, Meowscarada uses skillful misdirection to stealthily plant these flower bombs onto various surfaces around its unaware foes before setting them off, catching their opponents off guard" and it also mentions that Meowscarada has a proud, showy personality.

I have no doubt that Meowscarada could be a really solid choice and its magic abilities and its personality would no doubt be an enjoyable moveset. It also gets moves like Ally Switch, and a proud, showy illusionist with an emphasis on positioning for planted pollen bombs could be a stand-out concept.

My main issue with Meowscarada is one that may not even matter to the roster selection process, but I'm just kinda like "damn, two dark type cat pokemon back to back?" lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm just picturing Sakurai at his desk going:

While rocking back and forth.

"M-Mr. Sakurai sir? Can you please stop singing Fever over and over and make sure you actually made Dr. Mario slower than the regular one?"

"No."

 

[RileyXY1]

Although one fact is that despite the 3DS being recent when Smash 4 was planned, there are actually more reps from the 3DS then on DS. (6 vs 1).

The only DS rep (Lucario) appeared in other stuff for promotional stuff so it’s not even fully accurate.

Yeah. At the best point the best option for a new DS rep is Ashley, who debuted in WarioWare: Touched. The rest of the supporting cast would instead be GBA reps as that was where the original game was released.

 

[Gengar84]

Has anyone considered the possibility of getting another unevolved Pokemon as a Smash rep? Like we could potentially get Sprigatito or Floragato over Meowscarada. Floragato is actually my favorite in its line. We did get Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle, and Ivysaur so it isn’t unprecedented. You just never really hear anyone bring any up outside of Eevee.

 

[Louie G.]

Has anyone considered the possibility of getting another unevolved Pokemon as a Smash rep? Like we could potentially get Sprigatito or Floragato over Meowscarada. Floragato is actually my favorite in its line. We did get Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle, and Ivysaur so it isn’t unprecedented. You just never really hear anyone bring any up outside of Eevee.

It usually doesn't come up because the fully evolved are that much more popular, and nowadays is usually the more fully realized version of the idea. But I actually do like Floragato a lot, they feel pretty different than Meowscarada in concept so they wouldn't be such a bad choice on their own either. When we first saw them I assumed we were going for a P*ss (really, the censorship?) in Boots type thing with this evolutionary line instead of what we got in the end.

Once upon a time I wondered the practicality of picking Rowlet instead of the oft speculated Decidueye, because everyone used to talk about how popular that line was but the unevolved Pokemon was arguably the real star of the show here. But as a fighter, probably not the most compelling.

 

[Idon]

Has anyone considered the possibility of getting another unevolved Pokemon as a Smash rep? Like we could potentially get Sprigatito or Floragato over Meowscarada. Floragato is actually my favorite in its line. We did get Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle, and Ivysaur so it isn’t unprecedented. You just never really hear anyone bring any up outside of Eevee.

I think you'll only really have that possibility with Braixen whose popularity did supercede the tepid Delphox reception

Each other exception here has a pretty damn good reason that has nothing to do with the fact they're NFE:
Pikachu is self explanatory, Pichu and Jigglypuff were clones, and Squirtle/Ivy exist only to bolster Pokemon Trainer's gimmick.
Ignoring Pikachu, none would get in without their specific circumstances.

Meowscarada however is still largely popular and gets a large amount of push in every area of pokemon multimedia.

On the one hand, the flower is attached to Meowscarada's body, so it is always out, but on the other I suppose since the lore is that the stem has fur that makes it invisible it's not unreasonable to take creative liberties and say the flower can go invisible too...

With the mention of yo-yos and Joker's grappling hook, I'm now picturing Bridget, but a magician and I guess that's an interesting enough starting concept.

I mean from how the actual game and Unite shows it, it literally will just teleport where it needs to.
The fact it's just sleight of hand vs actual magic is purely for flavor reasons than any mechanical purpose.

I don't really see any of these "limitations" you're speaking of to be honest.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Has anyone considered the possibility of getting another unevolved Pokemon as a Smash rep? Like we could potentially get Sprigatito or Floragato over Meowscarada. Floragato is actually my favorite in its line. We did get Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle, and Ivysaur so it isn’t unprecedented. You just never really hear anyone bring any up outside of Eevee.

Well if we go so far back that Gen 8 is on the table I think Sakurai would consider a member of the entire Scorbunny line and not just Cinderace, since you don't really need the final form to have the moveset people speculate it'd have.

And I mentioned Oshawott as a possibility if Legends Arceus is being considered. While only Samurott got a Hisuian form, its pre-evolutions would be presumably easier to make "dance" in Sakurai's mind.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Now I’m imagining the twist where people expect Meowscarada but we get the other bipedal stage performer cat of the Switch era, Clawroline, instead.

 

[fogbadge]

Unrelated but now I'm remembering how people got blocked by Sakurai on Twitter for playing tic-tac-toe on Haru's forehead and that's hilarious.

Whaaaaaaaaaaa..........???

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Sakurai: The Pokemon series has been taken to new heights in recent years and the Smash Bros team knew they had to include someone from those recent titles because their role one of them was so beloved which is why the next Smash Bros will include...

Spoiler

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Has anyone considered the possibility of getting another unevolved Pokemon as a Smash rep? Like we could potentially get Sprigatito or Floragato over Meowscarada. Floragato is actually my favorite in its line. We did get Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle, and Ivysaur so it isn’t unprecedented. You just never really hear anyone bring any up outside of Eevee.

That's likely because typically the evolution covers the same niche as the pre-evolution in most cases and then some.

And the early evolutions tend to not really stand out as a concept.

Like using Rowlet and Decidueye for a moment (not Dartrix because no one really cares about Dartrix).

Rowlet is popular. Like really popular. It eclipses its own evolutions by a country mile in both popularity and marketing.
However it's essentially just a small owl that can throw leaves because it's a Grass type.

Comparatively, Decidueye is a straight up archer.
It's clear which one would be more appealing as a fighter in a general sense (aside from those that like to be contrarian), especially when considering it wasn't Rowlet who was up in the running for Ultimate.

It's true that we got unevolved Pokémon before, but there's specific reasons for each of them that wouldn't really apply to many nowadays and why the ones that do get brought up are the likes of Eevee (because it's Eevee) or Meowth (because Team Rocket).

Not to say it isn't possible, just....do you honestly think Sakurai would see the Sprigatito line and opt for "green kitten" before the trickster street magician?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

OK I think I'm starting to see it. How about something like this:

• Flower Trick: Meowscarada throws a flower into the air at a set distance. Holding the button has it stuff pollen into the flower before throwing it out. This is a projectile that can be angled in any direction, but probably doesn't do any damage outright. Instead both the regular and pollen stuffed flowers will stay in place mid air. You can have two normal flowers, and one pollinated flower out at a time. While they are floating, there is no visual difference between the pollin stuffed and not stuffed flowers. While the radius is pretty huge on normal sized stages, the flowers do go away if Meowscarada moves too far away from them. Mostly this will only happen on big stages, or if Meowscarada is launched too far away from a normal stage.
• Seed Bomb: Meowscarada throws a seed in a downward arc. The trajectory can be angled up or down, with the down-most angle throwing the seed right at Meowscarada's feet. Upon contact with an opponent, the flower explodes, dealing a bit of damage, and flowering them for a second. It also exploded when hitting the ground, instead causing tall grass to appear for a few seconds, which you can use to conceal your actions.
• Grassy Glide: Meowscarada pulls itself toward it's pollen stuffed flower if it's out. If it isn't, then it acts as a normal tether recovery using similar methods. Flavor wise, Meowscarada appears to float toward the flower at a glance, but if you look closer you'll see that it yanked on the invisible stem to pull itself toward the flower.
• Floral Blast: After a pause, the pollin stuffed flower explodes, dealing massive damage to opponents within range. If the pollin stuffed flower isn't out, the explosion is centered around Meowscarada. The other two flowers simply disappear, as they were decoys.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Bit of a flavor thing for Meowscarada rather than a gameplay one, but I‘m imagining it taking out a stack of leaves (Leafage, Magical Leaf, ect) and fanning them out like they’re a stack of playing cards.

Although now I’m imaging it holding up the fan of leaves being a stance that you can cancel into a few different things (like teleporting away in a few different directions, throwing the leaves, or just claw-slashing the enemy in the face if you think the opponent is going to be too aggressive.)

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's almost as if that game was trying to be something completely different, like a game specifically aimed to please at the fans using the results of a ballot and bringing back everyone rather than being your typical Smash game.

Pfft! Pleasing the fans? Hopefully they don't try THAT again with the next game. Amirite?!

 

[Ivander]

Reminds me of how literally no one talked about Inteleon despite being basically James Bond.

Would it have been possible that the spy angle would've won Sakurai over the other starters?

Maybe, although we do have Snake and Snake's moveset is something I can imagine a spy character using. Decent focus of ranged mindgames, the remote mines, the chokehold, etc.

But it's not like Sakurai wouldn't have found a way to make either Cinderace or Rillaboom fun if he wanted one of them in. And both have a good amount of material to make them unique.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Reminds me of how literally no one talked about Inteleon despite being basically James Bond.

That's because its design is super lanky and awkward and just generally has low appeal. Galar has a pretty weak starter trio overall with most people finding Rillaboom to be meh at best, so it's not surprising that people latched onto Cinderace the most.

I was going to say it was the weakest starter trio since Johto, and may be the weakest, but that's not really true since Grininja is the only positively viewed Galar starter and Chesnaut and Dhelphox are pretty well disliked overall.

 

[fogbadge]

Reminds me of how literally no one talked about Inteleon despite being basically James Bond.

Would it have been possible that the spy angle would've won Sakurai over the other starters?

well that’s not quite true. I remember a few people were trying to make him an echo of greninja

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Yeah. At the best point the best option for a new DS rep is Ashley, who debuted in WarioWare: Touched. The rest of the supporting cast would instead be GBA reps as that was where the original game was released.

Even other options such as Ace Attorney had its first 3 games on GBA in Japan.

I think the reason for 1st party specifically is because pre-existing franchises such as Mario didn’t really introduce new characters as much compared to the later 3DS. Pokemon being one of the exceptions. Newly introduced series such as Nintendogs and Brain Age became assist trophies instead.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Even other options such as Ace Attorney had its first 3 games on GBA in Japan.

I think the reason for 1st party specifically is because pre-existing franchises such as Mario didn’t really introduce new characters as much compared to the later 3DS. Pokemon being one of the exceptions. Newly introduced series such as Nintendogs and Brain Age became assist trophies instead.

Yeah, if you want a DS character, your options are like Ashley, Chorus Kids (because they're from the Rhythm Heaven game on the DS), a nintendog, Dr. Kawashima, Dr. Lobe from Big Brain Academy, Fossil Fighters, I think people have like rarely brought up Style Savvy before and I think that started on DS...

It's a pretty limited list in terms of possible candidates for something like Smash Bros., and aside from Ashley, most of them have huge hurdles to climb, like Rhythm Heaven and Fossil Fighters not having a game in a decade, Brain Age's rough position due to current US law, the moral and ethical dilemma of beating up a photorealistic dog, etc.

 

[Idon]

well that’s not quite true. I remember a few people were trying to make him an echo of greninja

Okay but echo forcers are insane and generally we ought not to acknowledge their wild notions.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Okay but echo forcers are insane and generally we ought not to acknowledge their wild notions.

Any Pokémon can be an Echo of another don't you know?

Delphox can be an Echo of Meowscarada and Zeraora can be an Echo of Lucario. :V
And let's not forget the Gardevoir/Gothitelle "leak".

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gonna be honest. If we were to have a big reveal of the Switch 2 on Thursday, I think we would have heard news by now.

 

[The Prankster 16]

True, Sakurai could revisit some of those old Melee concepts that definitely existed

Even though it'd never happen, I'd want to see a lot of the scrapped characters from across the franchise come back at some point. Like for an example, the Brawl mod PMEX Remix has Toon Zelda (who was scrapped from Brawl) as a substitute for Ultimate Zelda since they changed up how regular Brawl Zelda plays in that mod. I want to see how the Chorus Kids or Plusle and Minun would fight, what was Bowser supposed to play like back when he was considered for Smash 64, and I want to know what the heck Toon Sheik was.