Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[dream1ng]

I get why we've ended up with the Zelda selection we have. They're not going to give much priority to characters who have singular prominent appearances like Skull Kid or Midna or the champions. Tingle is his own can of worms, but he doesn't show up anymore anyway. And Impa... well her feasibility in the main games isn't very consistent, nor has her popularity been much until relatively recently. Plus she is still like a tier below Link, Zelda and Ganondorf.

And frankly, none of the characters are demanded enough to be included on those grounds.

It's explainable. It's just unfortunate. If they ought to start getting more lenient with any series (well, after Mario), it should be Zelda. Supporting characters like those mentioned above tend to be "bigger" than a lot of the more recurring characters from smaller series simply because they were prominent in a single main Zelda game, and have retained a fanbase since. That shouldn't count for nothing.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

The best Zelda pick is clearly Linebeck. That man is a treasure.

Sadly he was marooned on the DS and is a pile of bones by now.

 

[Ivander]

Zelda is one of those franchises where it's really not clear on what the criteria for newcomers is. Like they certainly had some idea on why Ridley and King K. Rool were wanted, due to their recognition as the re-curring villain to two of their popular characters. But it's unclear on what exactly prevents Zelda from getting more than just Link, Zelda and Ganondorf aside from, "they are the tri-defacto characters and pretty much all what you need to represent Zelda".

Like I don't think they are denying the popularity of the one-off characters. Heck, just about all of them are playable in Hyrule Warriors. Although unsurprisingly, it's a Zelda crossover and so it's easy to get the popular characters. Whereas with Smash, they are competing with other franchises, especially with 3rd Parties thrown into the mix.
So without any clear indicator on how they choose characters and only relying on explanations on why other characters were picked, the only real and vague answer is that Sakurai either didn't find them interesting enough or simply didn't want them over some other picks. So it's honestly hard to tell what Zelda's future in Smash will be moving forward.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Is it weird that seeing Ryuichi & Ryuji as spirits is what inspired me to want Billy and Jimmy in Smash?

 

[osby]

When you think about it, the concept of Toon Link as a character it's just so weird. I mean, it's literally just Link in a different art style. Imagine if in Brawl Link cartoon was the actual basic Link and Twilight princess Link was the unlockable secret character under the name "Realist Link". Or imagine if we had other characters with different art style like "Anime Fox".

Fox constantly reincarnating as different people in order to justify different design decisions is not a long-standing staple of his series.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is it weird that seeing Ryuichi & Ryuji as spirits is what inspired me to want Billy and Jimmy in Smash?

It's a roundabout method, but I'll allow it.

 

[Yamat08]

Fox constantly reincarnating as different people in order to justify different design decisions is not a long-standing staple of his series.

But aren't there some cases where the same Link has two different artstyles? I guess Link's Awakening on the Switch could be discounted, since that is a remake (though I think it does feature the same Link as the Oracles games otherwise). And Adventure of Link differing from Legend of Zelda (1) is more of a case of one game having adult Link while the other has Young Link. Though Ganon/Ganondorf I know is supposed to be the same character in every game.

 

[Idon]

But aren't there some cases where the same Link has two different artstyles? I guess Link's Awakening on the Switch could be discounted, since that is a remake (though I think it does feature the same Link as the Oracles games otherwise). And Adventure of Link differing from Legend of Zelda (1) is more of a case of one game having adult Link while the other has Young Link. Though Ganon/Ganondorf I know is supposed to be the same character in every game.

Yes, here's Link in OoT

Spoiler

And here's that same Link in TP

Spoiler

Quite the artstyle shift.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think this is one way to look at one-off characters:

Ultimately, every (unique) Smash fighter cost of ton of money and resources to make. This is probably why Sakurai is hesistant on adding more obscure picks, with the only real exceptions being again, his wacky "surprise fighters" every game like Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. or Piranha Plant.

So let's say that you're given a choice to represent Breath of the Wild: you can either just rework Link's moveset and design to reflect it, or you can create an entirely new character for it, someone like Urbosa or one of the other champions. Out of these two options, it goes without saying that it's a lot more expensive and resource intensive to create a completely new character, than it is to simply just update a veteran. So thus, they just went with Option A to represent BOTW, and relegate those resources for other new characters. Same thing with Midna in Brawl, it was easier to just take the returning pre-existing Zelda characters (Link, Zelda, Ganondorf...and Sheik) and update them to reflect Twilight Princess, as opposed to making an entirely new character from the ground up and potentially take away resources from other potential characters.

This is pretty much why series like Fire Emblem and Pokemon can get away with getting new characters all the time. Like in FE's case, they obviously just can't update Marth to reflect/represent Three Houses because...well, Marth isn't even in that game. So of course they have to make a new character for it in the form of Byleth. As another example, they COULD put the time and money into making Raven Beak a newcomer to represent Metroid Dread the next game...or they could just take the easier route and simply update Samus' design and moveset to reflect it, and allocate that time/money into other candidates.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Zelda is one of those franchises where it's really not clear on what the criteria for newcomers is. Like they certainly had some idea on why Ridley and King K. Rool were wanted, due to their recognition as the re-curring villain to two of their popular characters. But it's unclear on what exactly prevents Zelda from getting more than just Link, Zelda and Ganondorf aside from, "they are the tri-defacto characters and pretty much all what you need to represent Zelda".

Like I don't think they are denying the popularity of the one-off characters. Heck, just about all of them are playable in Hyrule Warriors. Although unsurprisingly, it's a Zelda crossover and so it's easy to get the popular characters. Whereas with Smash, they are competing with other franchises, especially with 3rd Parties thrown into the mix.
So without any clear indicator on how they choose characters and only relying on explanations on why other characters were picked, the only real and vague answer is that Sakurai either didn't find them interesting enough or simply didn't want them over some other picks. So it's honestly hard to tell what Zelda's future in Smash will be moving forward.

I think the sheer amount of popular one-off characters and how the fanbase splits off when it comes to which one should get in is probably a reason that stopped the franchise from getting something in at least Ultimate, the game meant to please fans.

If the fanbase can't collectively settle on a character, there's no real chance of getting any of them.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think the sheer amount of popular one-off characters and how the fanbase splits off when it comes to which one should get in is probably a reason that stopped the franchise from getting something in at least Ultimate, the game meant to please fans.

If the fanbase can't collectively settle on a character, there's no real chance of getting any of them.

That's another thing, yeah. There isn't really even a clear consensus in terms of a Zelda newcomer. With K. Rool and Ridley, people weren't just pushing for "new DK rep" or "new Metroid rep", they just wanted those specific characters and felt that they were important and deserving of being in. With Zelda, people basically just want a (non-clone) Zelda newcomer for the sake of having one; from what I've seen, there seems to be a mentality of "just pick ANYONE, I don't care". It's kinda the same thing with Kirby, but at least Kirby does have a clear cut obvious favorite (Bandana Dee), even if he's not terribly exciting still.

 

[fogbadge]

in terms of getting cut i cant help but wonder who could get cut cause of licencing issues

 

[Dinoman96]

in terms of getting cut i cant help but wonder who could get cut cause of licencing issues

I feel like at this point, there isn't gonna be any company saying "No." to their characters being in Smash. The issue really will just be time and money.

 

[fogbadge]

I feel like at this point, there isn't gonna be any company saying "No." to their characters being in Smash. The issue really will just be time and money.

Not really. It was neither time nor money that made it complicated licencing the FF stuff nor was it what took Steve five years

 

[Gengar84]

I agree that the Zelda roster in Smash could use a lot of work. I have a few ideas that are probably pretty unpopular but I might as well share them.

First off, would keep Sheik because I’ve always loved the character but I do agree that she isn’t really important enough to the series to deserve a spot as a stand-alone character. What I would do is put her back as a Zelda transformation but change the transformation method to a taunt (that would have the exception of being usable online). This way, Zelda and Sheik can both keep their full movesets and wouldn’t lose anything but could still transform like they used to before the 3DS limitations. As for design, I personally prefer Zelda’s Twilight Princess design from Brawl compared to her ALttP inspired design in Ultimate but I feel like I’m in the minority in that opinion.

I personally feel like Ganondorf could use a complete overhaul. I’ve been a Ganondorf main since Melee and I do enjoy his play style but it was always derivative of other characters and never from his own appearances in Zelda. I feel like there’s a few ways we could go about this. First, we could make Ganondorf a transformation character like Zelda/Sheik where he could transform between his human form and his classic trident wielding pig form. In this scenario, I’d either base his human moves off OoT and make him a pure mage with no weapon or give him the dual swords from Wind Waker and Hyrule Warriors. The second option is to forgo the transformation mechanic and make him an amalgamation of several of his skills throughout the series. In this case, I’d give him the trident from his pig form, as well as the Fire bats and Dead Man’s Volley from OoT as well as other moves from later games.

Finally, I’d cut both Toon Link and Young Link for some more varied representation. I think the Link that we keep should represent the character overall throughout the series instead of just Breath of the Wild. The main moveset change I’d make here is to give him back the hookshot. He can still keep the BotW outfit as the default but I’d love it if we got something that closely resembled his OoT design for an alternate outfit.

I think three great additions could be Impa (preferably using her OG Hyrule Warriors or Skyward Sword design), Urbosa (or Mipha) and Skull Kid. I feel like these three do a good job representing characters from throughout the series. Impa is in almost every Zelda game so she seems like the next logical choice. Urbosa is a very popular champion from the most recent game and has a really great design. Mipha is another good option and has a ton of moveset potential with her unique weapon and water based attacks. Finally, Skull Kid has been a long time popular request for Smash and has had an assist trophy as well as a Mii outfit and has a fun design as well as giving us another villain.

 

[CastletonSnob]

Which of the three Final Fantasy girls would you rather have in Smash?

Tifa
Terra
Yuna

 

[Gengar84]

Which of the three Final Fantasy girls would you rather have in Smash?

Tifa
Terra
Yuna

Yuna probably. I think Tifa is my favorite as a character but I really like a lot of Yuna’s Aeons. The idea of a character being able to summon Valefor, Ifrit, Shiva, and Bahamut in a moveset is just way too cool to pass up. Tifa, in contrast, is pretty standard and would be way less exciting to play as despite me liking her as a character more. We also have two Final Fantasy VII characters already and my next choice would be Vincent Valentine. Vincent is awesome and has a ton of moveset potential himself. I feel like he’s a very underrated option.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Which of the three Final Fantasy girls would you rather have in Smash?

Tifa
Terra
Yuna

She's not in the list, but Rinoa. Tifa's great, but we really ought to go outside of FFVII. Terra just never really grabbed me as a character, which is weird because she's similar to a lot of characters I really enjoy. Yuna's kind of meh to me combat-wise, but that's mostly because I don't really care for the summoner class and I'm not a fan of puppet characters.

 

[toonito]

Which of the three Final Fantasy girls would you rather have in Smash?

Tifa
Terra
Yuna

Tifa > Terra = Yuna

 

[CastletonSnob]

What Finial Fantasy characters would you like to see in Smash?

Doesn't have to be the three I picked.

 

[Perkilator]

What Finial Fantasy characters would you like to see in Smash?

Doesn't have to be the three I picked.

At the very least, I would’ve loved to see Spirits of characters from non-VII games in the base game, maybe even a Tifa Assist Trophy.

 

[fogbadge]

What Finial Fantasy characters would you like to see in Smash?

Doesn't have to be the three I picked.

cecil, zidane or locke

 

[Chuderz]

Under the assumption that no cuts happen then I'd like all the Links to get massive overhauls in the same vein as Ganondorf needs.

I'll start with my main Link ideas and while BOTW2 will likely make its own plethora of major additions to Link's arsenal there are still some things I don't imagine being able to work in Smash like the water-like phasing into solid objects and the rewind we saw in the trailer.

For Link I'd have a Pokemon Trainer and then some amount of work overhaul and yes he's crack nasty. I think Link should kick all kinds of ass in a game hosted by his developer.

Anyway Shield-Special switches between Glowing Master Sword+Shield, Polearm and Savage Lynell Crusher similar to Monado arts. Each has its own throws, jabs, tilts, dash attacks, Smash attacks, and aerials. I'd prefer the weapons don't break but Smash team would probably be lame about it. Sword+Shield can stay as it is. Some things could be stolen from other characters like I think Crusher's Down-Air could be taken from Byleth's Down-Air. Oh and Link's Side-Smash with the Master Sword will always do the blade beam even after he takes damage. All the dash attacks will be Link's running attacks for each weapon type in Breath of the Wild.

Specials would be changed and universal throughout each weapon set. Up-Special is obviously Revali's Gale + paraglider and similar to Snake's.

Side-Special is Urbosa's Fury and works a lot like Hero's Side-Special.

Neutral-Special is still arrows but as you charge it on the ground you can slide the control-stick to change between fire, lightning and ice arrows. The window of opportunity to do this is limited because this option only becomes available once you've sufficiently charged your shot and even then there is still a very small window of time before you'll automatically shoot. The control-stick function works exactly how Peach's Side-Smash arsenal works. Link also gets a Neutral-Air-Special like Steve in that he slows down dramatically for a moment and is allowed to aim an explosive arrow shot at about a 180-degree angle in front of himself. It's very punishable if you dodge through/around the arrow or the arrow or get outside his line of fire. You can also shield it but it does do pretty decent shield damage so be wary.

Down-Special stays the exact same as it is currently.

Link's shield becomes Daruk's Protection and it's a very special shield in that if Link perfect shields Daruk will counter-attack if an opponent is in grab range in kind of a double-sided Down-Smash kind of way except not nearly as powerful. Daruk could like port onto Link's Z-Axis position and like slam both his fists to the ground. Hitbox would be pretty big but it won't hurt that much. It'll be the weakest counter in the game.

Link also gets the foresight mechanic in the form of Flurry Rush.

Finally Link's new grab is the Sheikah Slate Stasis ability. It works like Pacman's grab and the entire cast gets gold shiny and frozen in place to save on animation costs with maybe the ethereal chains around them. Regardless of the weapon Link is using his pummel will always be throwing Deku Seeds at the grabbed opponent. The throws will incorporate the stasis-breaking effect and a pointer will showcase the direction they'll be flying off to just before the throw animation is finished for added effect. I could even see giving Link Kazuya's dynamic camera angles in 1v1 matches. Naturally these throws will be long and flashy like Kazuya's so Link will need invincibility while he's doing them just like Kazuya.

Oh and Link has a passive ability in addition to his normal standing-still shield one when he has it out. There's like a 1 in 500-1000 chance when he takes damage Mipha will show up to offer her grace which will heal him for like 3% because I just wanted to include all the champion abilities. Either that or just have it be a taunt that does nothing. Might be for the best because I forgot to mention that Link will need unique taunts for each of his weapons.

 

[MasterCheef]

I feel at this point, there isn't gonna be any company saying "No." to their characters being in Smash. The issue really will be time and money

Now my Question is if we get another big Microsoft rep ; is it more likely to be _ Master Chief _ or is it more likely to be a - CoD - rep like Soap or Captain Price ?

 

[Yamat08]

Which of the three Final Fantasy girls would you rather have in Smash?

Tifa
Terra
Yuna

What Finial Fantasy characters would you like to see in Smash?

Doesn't have to be the three I picked.

Terra to both of those, easily. I'm an SNES Final Fantasy fan, VI seems to be the most fondly remembered among them, and I did like Terra as the game's main protagonist. The fact that Sakurai mentioned her as a potential alternative for Cloud only makes me want her to eventually get in Smash all the more.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What Finial Fantasy characters would you like to see in Smash?

Doesn't have to be the three I picked.

Squall Leonhart. FFVIII is my favorite game.

Though if we suddenly had another FFVII, Aerith for sure. Sephiroth and her are my favorite VII character, after all. That, and we don't have a more traditional bo-staff user. Not saying she's the best plausible one though. Admittedly I can't think of many off the top of my head that actually debuted in video games beyond Will(kind of) from Illusion of Gaia.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

On drawing moves from non-canon or non-mainline appearances...when designing a character, I think that potential moves inspired by non-canon or non-mainline appearances should generally receive less priority compared to those drawn from mainline appearances, but could be used to help fill out a moveset if necessary. Make sure the mainline/canon incarnations of the character are represented properly and fully, but basically any appearances in video games published by Nintendo or company of origin can be at least considered for movepools.

Truer words have never been spoken, to be honest. It's very straightforward and could be idealized in SSB6 for, an unannounced character of sorts.
Ahem.

Brawl Announcer in Japan "GAME, SET".!

 

[SPEN18]

So let's say that you're given a choice to represent Breath of the Wild: you can either just rework Link's moveset and design to reflect it, or you can create an entirely new character for it, someone like Urbosa or one of the other champions. Out of these two options, it goes without saying that it's a lot more expensive and resource intensive to create a completely new character, than it is to simply just update a veteran. So thus, they just went with Option A to represent BOTW, and relegate those resources for other new characters.

With BotW being 2017, it was probably too recent to have a unique fighter in the project plan. When we talk about skipping a dedicated BotW rep we're mainly talking about DLC, I think, wherein they went for deliberately more niche first party choices than Zelda, despite the coming BotW2 making BotW characters arguably more relevant than the other older Switch titles that got reps.

Same thing with Midna in Brawl, it was easier to just take the returning pre-existing Zelda characters (Link, Zelda, Ganondorf...and Sheik) and update them to reflect Twilight Princess, as opposed to making an entirely new character from the ground up and potentially take away resources from other potential characters.

Again, the example is flawed given that they did plan for more recent Zelda characters to get into Brawl in addition to updating designs: Toon Link and probably also Toon Zelda. Clones, maybe, but still significant assets invested. Maybe being cloneable made them get priority over someone like Midna, but then again there were plenty of niche newcomers like Lucas and ROB in the game so it's still weird that a unique Zelda newcomer was not considered more seriously.

You also neglect to mention 4, when they didn't do such significant redesigns on the main trio and at least someone like Ghirahim could've made sense even within a more recency-oriented framework for newcomer selection.

In conclusion, I don't really think it's a matter of "just updating Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf is way less work."

This is pretty much why series like Fire Emblem and Pokemon can get away with getting new characters all the time. Like in FE's case, they obviously just can't update Marth to reflect/represent Three Houses because...well, Marth isn't even in that game. So of course they have to make a new character for it in the form of Byleth

Again, not consistent with all of Smash history. By your logic, adding Robin in 4 would've made no sense when they could've just made lazy Lucina and Chrom clones (with far less work involved than even Toon Link/Zelda) and then called it a day. I think Sakurai just valued Awakening pretty highly and wanted to represent it with a full unique. Why he wouldn't go above and beyond for landmark games like Twilight Princess or Majora's Mask is beyond me.

 

[Sucumbio]

Which of the three Final Fantasy girls would you rather have in Smash?

Tifa
Terra
Yuna

Terra...

For any character from FF, Vivi.
Any female, Lightning.

 

[CastletonSnob]

FF6 doesn't get much love, despite being considered one of the best games ever made. It's FF7 that gets most of the attention.

 

[osby]

FF6 doesn't get much love, despite being considered one of the best games ever made. It's FF7 that gets most of the attention.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that FF7 is also considered one of the best games ever made.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Terra...

For any character from FF, Vivi.
Any female, Lightning.

Ah yes, Terra from Teen Titans. (2003-2008), Kids WB on Saturday Mornings.!
... It's a pretty interesting mix.

 

[Wonder Smash]

It's a roundabout method, but I'll allow it.

It's kind of similar to many characters I want to see in Smash. Whenever a company has content in Smash, I always think about what character they own that can be in the roster. Seeing the Fatal Frame characters as trophies in Smash 4 also led to me to seriously start thinking about Hayabusa as a playable character.

Ryuichi and Ryuji, being based on Billy and Jimmy, did the same thing.

 

[ARandomFruit]

What Final Fantasy characters would you like to see in Smash?

Doesn't have to be the three I picked.

All of them.
Top 5 would probably be Kefka, Terra, Cecil, Vivi and Warrior of Light

 

[CastletonSnob]

Smash could use more female characters. What female characters would you like to see in Smash? Here are mine:

Tifa
Krystal
Lara Croft
Amy Rose
Chun-Li

 

[Ivander]

What Finial Fantasy characters would you like to see in Smash?

Doesn't have to be the three I picked.

-Bartz
-Terra
-Gilgamesh
-Black Mage or Vivi

As for female characters:
-Ashley from WarioWare
-Medusa
-Tetra
-Lyndis
-Dixie Kong
-Elma

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Smash could use more female characters. What female characters would you like to see in Smash?

Terra Branford
Lara Croft
Marina Liteyears
Chun-Li
Jill Valentine/Claire Redfield
Amaterasu
Blaze the Cat
Impa
Dixie Kong
Hat Kid

 

[ZeldaFan01]

If Blaze in Brawl makes it to SSB6, then I need Erica Schroeder as the VA.
SMITE Character(s)?, Intristeeeenggg.

AND.

I'd glady take Blaze over Shadow from SSBB instead.

 

[dream1ng]

Truer words have never been spoken, to be honest. It's very straightforward and could be idealized in SSB6 for, an unannounced character of sorts.
Ahem.
View attachment 348635View attachment 348637View attachment 348636
Brawl Announcer in Japan "GAME, SET".!

Ah yes, Terra from Teen Titans. (2003-2008), Kids WB on Saturday Mornings.!
... It's a pretty interesting mix.
View attachment 348647

If Blaze in Brawl makes it to SSB6, then I need Erica Schroeder as the VA.
SMITE Character(s)?, Intristeeeenggg.

View attachment 348661View attachment 348662
AND.
View attachment 348663
I'd glady take Blaze over Shadow from SSBB instead.

Have you fallen through a wormhole from the Brawl era?

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Have you fallen through a wormhole from the Brawl era?

...Lol!
Noo I wouldn't say I'm a traveler... But I do love the realistic artstyle! I don't know why to be honest.
Or how does the expression go?
"Blast from the past/Blast of/to the past..."
Or maybe because I hacked a lot of characters on The Homebrew Channel, lol.