Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If we do get a Smash veteran popularity poll, who do you all think is going to be:

• The least popular character out of all 89 playable characters?
• The most popular character?
• The biggest underperformer(s)?
• The unexpected or slept on overperformer(s)?

• Piranha Plant or Dr. Mario
• Fox, Falcon, or Kirby
• Depends on what you mean:
  • Should be high, but aren't? Simon, Lucario, Mega Man, Bowser Jr., Sonic, and maybe even Steve and Jiggs.
  • Generally low performance? Dr. Mario, Toon Link, Wii Fit Trainer, Min Min, Corrin, and Byleth
• Young Link, Pichu, and Incin seem right here.

That makes me think though... Perkilator It would probably be a good idea to include "Who's your favorite/least favorite character?" as questions since it would help gauge popularity divorced from the desire to just bring everyone back. How you do that is up to you though. You could allow for a top/bottom 5 for more coverage or have a follow up "Why?" question for both or do both if you felt like it.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah TTYD was basically almost perfection and they decided to take a dump on the franchise after super paper Mario.

My biggest problem with TTYD is that your party members basically become obsolete once they hit their growth cap. For example, Goombella is my favorite character but I maxed her out kind of early on. It just felt pointless to continue using her after that point since she couldn’t improve. The other (which is shared by other JRPGs) is that you’re forced to use Mario. It’s not so bad in other games since you have more active party members, but only having two is kind of limiting when Mario has to be one of them.

I still really enjoyed playing and watching my brother but those are a few issues I had that kept the game from a perfect score in my view. Those are just subjective complaints though it it could easily be perfect for those that don’t mind those limitations. The story and characters were definitely great.

 

[Perkilator]

That makes me think though... Perkilator It would probably be a good idea to include "Who's your favorite/least favorite character?" as questions since it would help gauge popularity divorced from the desire to just bring everyone back. How you do that is up to you though. You could allow for a top/bottom 5 for more coverage or have a follow up "Why?" question for both or do both if you felt like it.

I decided to make the question of each section “Vote for your five favorite characters in this section” in my draft. Does that work?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I decided to make the question of each section “Vote for your five favorite characters in this section” in my draft. Does that work?

Ah, I was picturing a "Given a list of all of the characters, which would you like to see back?". This method definitely wouldn't have the issue I describe.

Dunno what the sections are, but that sounds like the most reasonable way of doing it.

 

[Perkilator]

Ah, I was picturing a "Given a list of all of the characters, which would you like to see back?". This method definitely wouldn't have the issue I describe.

Dunno what the sections are, but that sounds like the most reasonable way of doing it.

I typically went game by game so I could gauge the top 10 most popular characters from each game. Once all is said and done, I plan to take the top 10 of each game and sort them into a top 50 by the overall amount of votes.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I typically went game by game so I could gauge the top 10 most popular characters from each game. Once all is said and done, I plan to take the top 10 of each game and sort them into a top 50 by the overall amount of votes.

Dunno how significant this would be, but I do worry that sorting the different categories together might inflate certain characters within that overall context. For example, Kirby might appear more popular overall than he might actually be because while he might not be the most popular smash character, he's the most popular Smash 64 character or something along those lines. Might be best to have a top 5 overall category at the end or something.

Or maybe that's not how that works. I'm not sure.

 

[SharkLord]

The Smash Bros community after Sakurai programs DEI chins on all female characters:

View attachment 394695

They're not ready for the day Sakurai adds the Steel Uragaan and its iconic chin to the roster

The Monster Hunter community isn't ready either, but for different reasons

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The more I think about it, the more I’m confident K. Rool will be absent (at least from the base game) next time around.

(late, but) I don't see why this would be the case considering K. Rool's ballot results supposedly came as a complete surprise to Nintendo and directly contributed to him showing up in Ultimate.

Not to mention the Schaffrillas poll stacks him up against EVERY Mario character when the only Mario game he's ever really been in is Mario Super Sluggers on the Wii which didn't even release in Europe and came out in 2008, and aside from Ultimate he's basically been missing ever since. Nearly every other Mario character in the poll appears very regularly or has appeared recently, and frankly to a lot of people (myself included even though I love K. Rool) he may not even register as a character that would be included in a Mario character list.

 

[Louie G.]

If we do get a Smash veteran popularity poll, who do you all think is going to be:

• The least popular character out of all 89 playable characters?
• The most popular character?
• The biggest underperformer(s)?
• The unexpected or slept on overperformer(s)?

Least Popular - Olimar, Duck Hunt, someone like that. Not because they’re inherently unpopular characters but because their more specialized or unwieldy playstyle makes them a rare “favorite”. Characters like Young Link are at least commonly played.

Most Popular - People like their goofy big guys like Dedede and King K. Rool. Kirby, Ness, Captain Falcon. All of these will be Top 10.

Underperformer - Rosalina, Diddy Kong, Lucario. Popular characters in their own series, not that popular in Smash. Will go out on a limb and say (Smash) Meta Knight is not that popular these days either? Not sure where he would pool but these feel like interesting cases of that external popularity not quite lining up.

Overperformer - Pichu, Incineroar and maybe Byleth. I also think Terry will be ranked very high among the third parties, and significantly higher than Ryu and Kazuya. I think Wolf could be an overachiever too, potentially the highest of the Star Fox crew.

 

[Perkilator]

Dunno how significant this would be, but I do worry that sorting the different categories together might inflate certain characters within that overall context. For example, Kirby might appear more popular overall than he might actually be because while he might not be the most popular smash character, he's the most popular Smash 64 character or something along those lines. Might be best to have a top 5 overall category at the end or something.

Or maybe that's not how that works. I'm not sure.

I’m mostly framing this poll in the context of every playable character in Ultimate. By “game by game”, I mean in the context of every character introduced in their respective Smash games.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

If I can add something, what about having a different number of characters for each game?
I mean, reaching the top 5 in Smash 64 with its 12 characters is easier than doing so in Ultimate with its 23.
Choosing 5 for each game would skew the results towards the Smash 64 characters no matter what.

 

[Perkilator]

If I can add something, what about having a different number of characters for each game?
I mean, reaching the top 5 in Smash 64 with its 12 characters is easier than doing so in Ultimate with its 23.
Choosing 5 for each game would skew the results towards the Smash 64 characters no matter what.

In that case, I think I’ll raise it to allow voting for ten characters per section.

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, here we go. One last iteration of the SharkLord roster. Really the only change was nixing Palutena (And by extension her Echo Fighter, Medusa) and adding Little Mac, because I realized Punch-Out was the only non-retro series that just lost it's playable representation entirely - Even Wii Fit and the Miis live on in spirit through the Ring Fit Trainee and the expanded custom character concept I had.

Also, since I couldn't figure out another Echo Fighter to cram in to round out the roster, I decided to just show the custom character on the roster. Guess I should go into that so I'm not just spamming the same image repeatedly with minor tweaks. The idea I had was that we'd expand on the Fighting Alloys from Brawl, since the represented the other Mob Smash enemies; Polygons wrapped around wireframes, representing the Polygon Fighting Team and the Wireframes from 64 and Melee, respectively. To round it out, one of the customization options would be giving them the faces of a Mii, so we pasically merge all the fighting teams into a single customizable entity.

There'd be some expanded moveset options as well; There'd be at least a good handful of normal movesets based on different fighters, like Captain Falcon or Marth, if not just having counterparts to every fighter in the roster (Though that might be a bit too complicated). Then there would be a big variety of specials you could choose from. Certain outfits or accessories could be added to unlock exclusive moves. I haven't fleshed out the concept fully, but I dunno, I like the idea of a super versatile character creator, like in Tekken 7 or Soulcalibur.

 

[Opossum]

If we do get a Smash veteran popularity poll, who do you all think is going to be:

• The least popular character out of all 89 playable characters?
• The most popular character?
• The biggest underperformer(s)?
• The unexpected or slept on overperformer(s)?

- This one is dependent on how it's gauged. If it's asked as "least favorite," then Piranha Plant, Corrin, and Young Link would probably get the most votes. If it's asking for people's favorites and seeing who gets the least amount of votes, it would probably be someone else who just falls under the radar. So probably Mii Swordfighter.

- Some combination of Kirby, King K. Rool, and Captain Falcon.

- I agree with Louie G. here. These would likely be characters who are objectively popular in their own series but don't see that popularity follow their Smash incarnations, in some cases due to their playstyle being either complicated or unfitting. Diddy Kong, Rosalina and Luma, Meta Knight, Lucario, and Isabelle.

- Ike and Palutena.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Woah now hold on here.

I had been theory crafting a veteran poll after the third party one (it's in development).

So one Perkilator how could you do this to me? You're encroaching on my territory! (You're fine, lol. Maybe we could even collab).

But on a more serious note, vets are tricky and I'd say there needs to be several questions answered for each vet.

1. How do you like the character outside of the context of Smash?
2. How do you like their moveset when playing them?
3. How do you like their moveset when playing against them?

And tons of questions like that. If you just say "who's your favorite or least favorite," you'll just get two data points that don't mean a ton.

 

[Gengar84]

Woah now hold on here.

I had been theory crafting a veteran poll after the third party one (it's in development).

So one Perkilator how could you do this to me? You're encroaching on my territory! (You're fine, lol. Maybe we could even collab).

But on a more serious note, vets are tricky and I'd say there needs to be several questions answered for each vet.

1. How do you like the character outside of the context of Smash?
2. How do you like their moveset when playing them?
3. How do you like their moveset when playing against them?

And tons of questions like that. If you just say "who's your favorite or least favorite, you'll just get two data points that don't mean a ton.

Yeah, that’s a great point. Two big examples for me are Lucario and Mega Man. I really like both characters a lot but I find them difficult to use effectively in Smash. That doesn’t mean I want them cut just because I don’t use them as much. I’d love if their playstyles were streamlined a bit so they’re easier to use. I think, if given no other context, I’d rate them both highly because I like them as characters outside of Smash.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

If we do get a Smash veteran popularity poll, who do you all think is going to be:

• The least popular character out of all 89 playable characters?
• The most popular character?
• The biggest underperformer(s)?
• The unexpected or slept on overperformer(s)?

IDK if I'd say he's the biggest underperformer, but has to be up there. For how much attention he gets in Supra Mayro, Junior anecdotally does not feel like a very popular character to play; I wouldn't be surprised if he was in the bottom 10 of usage even.

Also for most popular character, I'm guessing honestly. I remember hearing Sakurai claim he was the most used fighter online in 2019.

 

[jamesster445]

I’m thinking of doing a popularity poll for Smash veterans to gauge which characters people want back the most. How would you guys feel about this?

Redundant. If given the choice and it doesn't compromise other aspects of the game, everyone SHOULD want every character to return. If you are someone who is actively rooting to take away fighters, aka taking away other people's fun, you are a grade A asshole.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Redundant. If given the choice and it doesn't compromise other aspects of the game, everyone SHOULD want every character to return. If you are someone who is actively rooting to take away fighters, aka taking away other people's fun, you are a grade A asshole.

So....the entire fandom.

 

[fogbadge]

Woah now hold on here.

I had been theory crafting a veteran poll after the third party one (it's in development).

So one Perkilator how could you do this to me? You're encroaching on my territory! (You're fine, lol. Maybe we could even collab).

But on a more serious note, vets are tricky and I'd say there needs to be several questions answered for each vet.

1. How do you like the character outside of the context of Smash?
2. How do you like their moveset when playing them?
3. How do you like their moveset when playing against them?

And tons of questions like that. If you just say "who's your favorite or least favorite," you'll just get two data points that don't mean a ton.

those are some good questions. although you’ll probably regret asking them when you end up reading my 200 pages essay on why Link is amazing

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Redundant. If given the choice and it doesn't compromise other aspects of the game, everyone SHOULD want every character to return. If you are someone who is actively rooting to take away fighters, aka taking away other people's fun, you are a grade A asshole.

Bruh what? Who is "rooting to take away other fighters" lol

 

[Kirbeh]

Bruh what? Who is "rooting to take away other fighters" lol

That one guy with all the Rosalina amiibos

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Bruh what? Who is "rooting to take away other fighters" lol

People who hate Fire Emblem, Min Min, Dark Pit, Incineroar, etc.

 

[Idon]

Redundant. If given the choice and it doesn't compromise other aspects of the game, everyone SHOULD want every character to return. If you are someone who is actively rooting to take away fighters, aka taking away other people's fun, you are a grade A asshole.

No I disagree.

Character addition is not a simple equation where it's either a zero or a positive.
There are characters that people are allowed to dislike and to not want in another game because it can in fact, affect your one's own enjoyment. This is, after all, a fundamentally multiplayer game where you must fight against these other characters.

If you can want characters in... you are allowed to want characters out.

 

[Will]

Bruh what? Who is "rooting to take away other fighters" lol

Me.

I’m praying on all y’all’s downfall

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

People who hate Fire Emblem, Min Min, Dark Pit, Incineroar, etc.

Oh I know how the fandom is, just dunno why he brought it up cause nobody's doing that right now.

That one guy with all the Rosalina amiibos

Oh yeah.... I wonder what mariotehplumber's up to now lmao

 

[SPEN18]

those are some good questions. although you’ll probably regret asking them when you end up reading my 200 pages essay on why Link is amazing

I imagine it would just be a "rate from 1 to 10" deal or something similar.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Oh I know how the fandom is, just dunno why he brought it up cause nobody's doing that right now.

Because the viewpoint being brought up is that everybody should just want everybody back, making a poll pointless. Which is inherently flawed.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Oof, seems like my comment got ignored. Probably commented at a bad time. Seems like multiple more important topics are happening now.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Oof, seems like my comment got ignored. Probably commented at a bad time. Seems like multiple more important topics are happening now.

It happens here. People go a mile a minute.

 

[fogbadge]

I imagine it would just be a "rate from 1 to 10" deal or something similar.

well the answer is infinity out of 10

 

[DarthEnderX]

There are characters that people are allowed to dislike and to not want in another game because it can in fact, affect your one's own enjoyment. This is, after all, a fundamentally multiplayer game where you must fight against these other characters.

If you can want characters in... you are allowed to want characters out.

You're allowed to want characters out. Just understand that you are prioritizing your own enjoyment over that of others, in as exclusionary a manner as possible.

If the only way someone can get enjoyment is by taking away the enjoyment of others, that does make them a grade-A ***hole.

 

[SharkLord]

It happens here. People go a mile a minute.

Yeah, things can easily get lost in forums like these. Everyone responds to a post at once, and anything not related to that topic gets buried.

At least it's not Discord. Here we can at least read through all the posts at our own pace and not watch a hundred posts manifest all at once.

 

[Dukefire]

People are allowed to want characters out.

Just understand that you are prioritizing your own enjoyment over that of others, in as exclusionary a manner as possible. Your getting enjoyment by taking away other people's enjoyment. And that does make someone a grade-A ***hole.

Developers has to look at the bigger picture. Sure, removing said character is easy, but how many people would react IF that said character is gone.......

There will be times where the hardest choices require the strongest wills.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

It happens here. People go a mile a minute.

Ah I see now haha. Am new here so I have to get used to how things work around here .

 

[AinsOoalGown]

Redundant. If given the choice and it doesn't compromise other aspects of the game, everyone SHOULD want every character to return. If you are someone who is actively rooting to take away fighters, aka taking away other people's fun, you are a grade A asshole.

100%. Discourse when cuts are possible are terrible because mostly its just kids trying to overcorrect the previous roster not being their specific headcanon and wanting "revenge" on say Kazuya or Minmin "stealing" the spot that would "totally" go to their favorite otherwise, discussions during Ultimate got super healthy early on because everyone focused on who they wanted in. Also this kind of thing always ends skewed because even if its posted elsewhere, those elsewheres (subreddits specially) tend to be bubbles too where the opinion is dictated by ~20 powerusers (like those communities who hate certain entries of certain series but then you go outside and find casual communities or irl ppl who love it).

Also the very obvious issue of picking favorites, be it 1 or 5 is the overbloat of options: Lets say in a hypothetical someone really loved Warioware and thus Wario, but this same person loves Sonic, Snake, Dedede, Metaknight and Ike WAY more. Suddenly Wario gets not chosen so people will go "hurr this proves Wario is unpopular" when its obviously not the case, and that person will be happy to get Warioware stuff back, but theres dozens of other choices to pick too, so its impossible to go with all. Thus its impossible to be accurate with these.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I'd actually pay good money to never have to fight against Bayonetta, Pyra, Kazuya, Sonic etc. ever again, but on the other hand if other people like to play as them?
Why cut when you can rebalance.

And also Kazuya's bull**** is fun when it's on your side, not going to lie.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why cut when you can rebalance.

And also Kazuya's bull**** is fun when it's on your side, not going to lie.

I am once again going to state that Kazuya would be more accurate to Tekken if he didn't have half of his BS. Like giving him super armor on everything.

 

[Opossum]

Discussing cuts isn't "being an asshole" automatically. Most people are understandably expecting at least SOME cuts, and naturally people will want those cuts to be characters they don't care for rather than those that they do care about.

Talking about who you'd like to be kept in a new game that will almost certainly require cuts from Ultimate is just a natural point of discussion.

 

[Idon]

You're allowed to want characters out. Just understand that you are prioritizing your own enjoyment over that of others, in as exclusionary a manner as possible.

If the only way someone can get enjoyment is by taking away the enjoyment of others, that does make them a grade-A ***hole.

My issue with that is it goes both ways. The "screw you I got mine" mentality irregardless of any one else's opinion.

For example Abigail in SFV was the most critically panned character in SF history, just about no one liked him, no one liked fighting against him, and no one liked his playstyle. If you asked any Street Fighter player who they did not want to return, everyone would say him.

I would not consider the vast majority of people that despised him and his inclusion to be assholes, nor do I consider the rare fans of him that want him back at the chagrin of everyone else to be the "standard" that should be catered to.