Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

it's sheer cold not aurora beam. maybe it was in an older gen

anyway I'd find it disappointing if the first pokemon fighter in smash to use an ice attack wasn't an ice type pokemon. ice types are a gold mine of great fighters

"an older gen"

Suicune always had Aurora Beam in its level up learnset from its introduction all the way up to and including Gen VII. It only left when learnsets as a whole were shaken up from Sword and Shield onward, due to tons of moves getting cut. Despite none of the three moves being cut, all three of the Legendary Beasts lost their level 29 moves (Aurora Beam for Suicune, Spark for Raikou, and Stomp for Entei). Aurora Beam was, and honestly still is, HEAVILY associated with Suicune.

And on that last point, we don't have a single Ghost type Pokémon despite two different Pokémon having Ghost moves on the roster. It's not a big deal.

 

[Garteam]

DDR was awesome I wonder if anyone still plays it ..


Actually

Garteam during your arcade trip did you see any ddr

I did! I played one of the new(ish) DDR machines at a Taito Centre in Denden Town, Osaka. I didn't see much DDR beyond that, but I think a lot of that is symptomatic of Japan's population density. DDR was the physically largest machine I saw during my time abroad. Space is at a premium for many arcades, so I imagine its often a choice of whether to include one DDR or, say, another couple of ONGEKI Bright cabinets.

Rhythm games seem to be the most popular attraction at modern Japanese arcades, not counting the sea of claw machines. I saw a lot of couples taking turns on them together. I saw Taiko no Tatsujin and ONGEKI Bright the most often and both are a lot of fun, but there are just so many that I don't really know how to describe the landscape of Japanese arcade rhythm games beyond that.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Smash 6 roster speculation

No brand-new third party companies or series so I would put them

What on earth happened to the Pokemon roster?

 

[fogbadge]

"an older gen"

Suicune always had Aurora Beam in its level up learnset from its introduction all the way up to and including Gen VII. It only left when learnsets as a whole were shaken up from Sword and Shield onward, due to tons of moves getting cut. Despite none of the three moves being cut, all three of the Legendary Beasts lost their level 29 moves (Aurora Beam for Suicune, Spark for Raikou, and Stomp for Entei). Aurora Beam was, and honestly still is, HEAVILY associated with Suicune.

And on that last point, we don't have a single Ghost type Pokémon despite two different Pokémon having Ghost moves on the roster. It's not a big deal.

well it should be. ice types are the best

 

[Garteam]

I did! I played one of the new(ish) DDR machines at a Taito Centre in Denden Town, Osaka. I didn't see much DDR beyond that, but I think a lot of that is symptomatic of Japan's population density. DDR was the physically largest machine I saw during my time abroad. Space is at a premium for many arcades, so I imagine its often a choice of whether to include one DDR or, say, another couple of ONGEKI Bright cabinets.

Rhythm games seem to be the most popular attraction at modern Japanese arcades, not counting the sea of claw machines. I saw a lot of couples taking turns on them together. I saw Taiko no Tatsujin and ONGEKI Bright the most often and both are a lot of fun, but there are just so many that I don't really know how to describe the landscape of Japanese arcade rhythm games beyond that.

Also, this machine had Party Rock Anthem on it. That's largely irrelevant to anything related to Smash, but I still figured it was worth mentioning given Party Rock Anthem's status as the greatest song made by man, woman, or child.

 

[Louie G.]

Smash 6 roster speculation

I feel like this is just obligatory from me at this point but I can guarantee you that we are not losing Isabelle.

It always confuses me a bit when a roster clearly wants to acknowledge recent successes and bright futures - Alear, Ring Fit, Sylux and Emio - but then will actively take away from the series that saw the greatest growth and the most massive successes out of all of them.

You’re going to look at the state of Nintendo right now and say Animal Crossing and Splatoon are good with one character? They are literally two of Nintendo’s current tentpoles, placed on equal footing with Zelda. The least you can do is keep Nintendo’s most beloved mascot of the 21st century (Isabelle, it’s Isabelle). If you want to keep it contemporary, these two series are at the very front of the conversation.

…welcome to the boards though, sorry to come off strong.

 

[Opossum]

At this point the question should never be whether Villager or Isabelle is getting cut. It should be asking who the third Animal Crossing character will be.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Numbers-wise Animal Crossing definitely “deserves” a new character but moveset-wise I’m really soured on the idea after how Isabelle was implemented. Octoling might very well be an Echo or semiclone but after them you get a lot of potential for fresh ideas like Off the Hook or Cap’n Cuttlefish, But after Isabelle I don’t see how Tom Nook would necessarily have to be anything other than another spin-off take on Villager’s set, regardless of the numbers, slots, squares and iconicicity.

 

[Gengar84]

Not familiar with many of the 3rd party picks, but I like what you did with Zelda, Donkey Kong and even Pokémon even if I'm not quite sure who the newcomers are. Bold decisions. I like that! Same with Fire Emblem, even if I think you could fit Chrom back in, making him a Echo to Lucina this time (this is how I'd handle Fire Emblem at least). Lyn as newcomer is also cool. With Metroid, bold to cut ZSS even if I'd keep her, E.M.M.I. could work well, prefer Raven Beak but a solid choice overall. Also Ouroborous as newcomer for Xenoblade is genius. Good job on that one.

Thanks, I’m glad you like a lot of the choices. I’ll break down the list of newcomers in the order that they’re listed in case others might not be familiar with them.

Spoiler

Waluigi (Super Mario Bros.)
Waluigi has been in a ton of spinoff Mario games already and is one of the most requested characters out of anyone. Toad and Geno would have also made sense but I feel Waluigi is probably the most likely here.

Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country)
In my opinion, Dixie is one of the next biggest first party characters not yet in Smash. I think she’s got a ton of potential for various unique movesets but my personal favorite is using the Animal Buddies for specials.

Impa (The Legend of Zelda)
Impa is one of the longest recurring characters in the Zelda franchise and has had many cool iterations over the years. My favorite is her appearance in the first Hyrule Warriors game which has two unique movesets.

Rauru (The Legend of Zelda)
Rauru is on the other end of the spectrum and represents the newest game in the series. He’s got a really unique design and is the perfect character to bring in a lot of mechanics from TotK without the need to overhaul Link.

Hisuian Zoroark/Zoroark (Pokemon)
I think Hisuian Zoroark is a great way to represent multiple generations all with a single slot. It’s up there with my favorite Pokemon designs of all time. It had its own mini series and the original Zoroark even had its own movie. I think the base Zoroark could work well as an alt here.

Miraidon (Pokemon)
One of the cover legends from the newest game. Miraidon sets itself apart from the other Pokemon on the roster as well as most characters in general with its focus on futuristic technology like its ability to levitate and dash across the ground like a motorcycle.

Lyn (Fire Emblem)
Lyn is a great option for another female fighter. She’s got a really unique katana based fighting style compared to the rest of the Fire Emblem cast. She’s also a long time fan favorite which would ease the series fatigue in Smash of just getting the newest lord all the time and nothing else.

E.M.M.I. (Metroid)
This one is a bit of an out there pick like Piranha Plant just to keep things interesting. Both Raven Beak and Sylux are worthy options as well but I like the thought of leaving the door open for more mooks. E.M.M.I. also had more promotional presence than Raven Beak which helps. Plus, it’s just really cool to run up walls and ceilings which would be really unique as a Smash fighter.

Noah/Mio Ouroboros (Xenoblade)
I wanted to try to shake things up a bit with the Xenoblade pick. We just had a duo transformation with Pyra/Mythra so doing that again here would be more of the same. Noah alone isn’t terribly interesting mechanically compared to other options. I like that the fusion form allows for both characters to be represented in a unique way. Plus it just looks really cool.

Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
Astral Chain was an awesome game with really fun combat. Howard would give us a fun variant of a puppet fighter with their Legion. There are a ton of potential ways they could make a cool moveset out of the idea. My personal choice would have been the antagonist Jenna Anderson but she wouldn’t make a ton of sense as the sole AC rep.

Knuckles (Sonic the Hedgehog)
There are a ton of viable Sonic newcomers to choose from here. Tails, Shadow, and Eggman could have all easily worked as well. My favorite Sonic character has always been Knuckles and he has a lot going for him as well. He has an Assist Trophy already in Smash, had a popular movie appearance and even his own spinoff series based on the movies.

Zero (Mega Man)
Zero is another fan favorite character with history in Smash itself. I’ve always been a big fan of the character myself and his action platformer moveset is such a natural fit for Smash. He’d be a cool way to introduce more content from X and other offshoot series into Smash.

Bill Rizer/Lance Bean (Contra)
Contra was a huge hit during the NES and SNES eras and still gets new games today. Bill’s Arnold Schwarzenegger inspired action star vibe is pretty unique to Smash. He’d be a really cool ranged fighter with a ton of options for unique guns to fill out a moveset.

Fulgore (Killer Instinct)
Killer Instinct was essentially the original Nintendo fighter before Smash. At the time, Nintendo owned nearly half the stock in RARE and their biggest games were exclusive to Nintendo consoles and arcades. The series had a very successful comeback in 2013 with a popular newer entry and there is fan demand for a sequel to this day.

Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads)
The Battletoads haven’t quite had the same level of success as some other series so far but it was pretty iconic back in the day in its own right. Beyond my own personal bias, I think their movesets in the games are a perfect fit for Smash. Their exaggerated animations and transforming limbs would be a ton of fun to see here.

Illidan (WarCraft)
WarCraft is one of the most iconic gaming franchises in history. From the popular RTS games to the cultural phenomenon World of WarCraft, the franchise has left a huge impact on gaming. It also had a Hollywood movie and great digital card game. There are a lot of great options for characters here but Illidan is my personal favorite. He’s got such a cool and unique design and has a bigger emphasis on mobility than other characters which fits Smash well.

Alphen and Shionne (Tales)
I decided to go with the most recent entry here over the more classic Symphonia game for a few reasons. The first is my own personal bias in that I love Shionne as a character and don’t care much for Lloyd. I also saw that my roster was leaning more heavily toward older games so I thought it would be fun to see some newer characters. This is a transform duo that plays off each other’s styles. Alphen is a heavy hitting close range fighter that damages himself to strengthen is attacks while Shionne is a ranged fighter that focuses on healing.

Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Crono is the much more obvious choice here but I prefer Magus for a few reasons. First is personal bias in that Magus is one of my favorite characters in gaming and I’ve never been big on silent protagonists. Second is Magus has a completely new weapon type in a scythe rather than another sword wielder. Magus also had at least been planned to be a major part of every entry in the series before he was dropped from Chrono Cross due to time constraints. Crono only had a major role in the first game and a cameo appearance in Cross. Whether Crono or Magus, I feel like the Chrono series is a popular enough game where a character could be justified for Smash.

Jinx (League of Legends)
Another character from a more modern series with huge mainstream appeal. The games have proven themselves to be long lasting and iconic and the Netflix series, Arcane is a huge hit with a second season coming later this year. I went with Jinx due to both her popularity in the main series and costarring role in Arcane. Like WarCraft, there are a ton of great options they could go with for a League rep instead.

Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)
This one’s pretty controversial due to the graphic violence in the main series and lack of presence in Japan because of it. Still, the series is very iconic worldwide and is the next best selling fighting franchise not already in Smash. The series has shown that it’s fully capable of toning down the violence when needed like the original movie, cartoon series, and guest appearances in other games like Injustice. I went with Sub-Zero here out of preference and lack of Ice element fighters. Scorpion could also easily work here as a semiclone if they based the movesets off the classic entries.

Ryu Hyabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Another very popular NES era character with a very successful more modern revival (though that’s getting old itself these days). Hyabusa is a really cool option for a traditional ninja fighter and has a lot of moveset potential from what I’ve seen.

Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors)
The Warriors games are pretty big and have had several crossovers with Nintendo and other series in Smash already. Dynasty Warriors was the original franchise and Lu Bu is among the most iconic characters in the series complete with his own theme song. The series has great music and Lu Bu would be a really unique and powerful fighter in Smash. Along with Magus, they’d be the only dedicated pole-arm users in Smash.

it's sheer cold not aurora beam. maybe it was in an older gen

anyway I'd find it disappointing if the first pokemon fighter in smash to use an ice attack wasn't an ice type pokemon. ice types are a gold mine of great fighters

Suicune learned Aurora Beam by level up from generations 2-7. It’s also learned Blizzard, Mist, and Ice Fang by level up. I do agree that we could use an Ice type Pokémon in general but I feel like Ice type attacks are very fitting for Suicune as well. It seems to have a stronger connection with Ice types than most other Pokémon that aren’t actually part Ice.

 

[Opossum]

Numbers-wise Animal Crossing definitely “deserves” a new character but moveset-wise I’m really soured on the idea after how Isabelle was implemented. Octoling might very well be an Echo or semiclone but after them you get a lot of potential for fresh ideas like Off the Hook or Cap’n Cuttlefish, But after Isabelle I don’t see how Tom Nook would necessarily have to be anything other than another spin-off take on Villager’s set, regardless of the numbers, slots, squares and iconicicity.

I mean sure he's the most likely option, but Nook also isn't the be all end all of potential Animal Crossing additions. I definitely think he'd be unique if he got in, but if you wanted a more obviously unique inclusion, K. K. Slider is absolutely a valid option.

 

[fogbadge]

Numbers-wise Animal Crossing definitely “deserves” a new character but moveset-wise I’m really soured on the idea after how Isabelle was implemented. Octoling might very well be an Echo or semiclone but after them you get a lot of potential for fresh ideas like Off the Hook or Cap’n Cuttlefish, But after Isabelle I don’t see how Tom Nook would necessarily have to be anything other than another spin-off take on Villager’s set, regardless of the numbers, slots, squares and iconicicity.

what’s wrong with swinging bags of money around?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

what’s wrong with swinging bags of money around?

Nothing wrong with it, but Isabelle has had plenty of potential of her own and she still got the short end of the stick. Tom has the potential for a set with a lot of Bells and whistles but Isabelle showed they don’t necessarily go that route for Animal Crossing characters. Most Animal Crossing characters are deserving and are pretty iconic faces all things considered, but I just can‘t bring myself to be actively rooting for the camping equivalent of Wolf in the Star Fox trio.

 

[fogbadge]

Nothing wrong with it, but Isabelle has had plenty of potential of her own and she still got the short end of the stick. Tom has the potential for a set with a lot of Bells and whistles but Isabelle showed they don’t necessarily go that route for Animal Crossing characters. Most Animal Crossing characters are deserving and are pretty iconic faces all things considered, but I just can‘t bring myself to be actively rooting for the camping equivalent of Wolf in the Star Fox trio.

ah I see it’s you don’t think the smash team would do it

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Numbers-wise Animal Crossing definitely “deserves” a new character but moveset-wise I’m really soured on the idea after how Isabelle was implemented. Octoling might very well be an Echo or semiclone but after them you get a lot of potential for fresh ideas like Off the Hook or Cap’n Cuttlefish, But after Isabelle I don’t see how Tom Nook would necessarily have to be anything other than another spin-off take on Villager’s set, regardless of the numbers, slots, squares and iconicicity.

Personally I'd love more Isabelle style semi clones. Isabelle has enough changes that she turns a character I can't stand playing (Villager) into a character I genuinely love to play.

 

[Gengar84]

I think both are staying but I’d actually keep Isabelle over Villager if I could only keep one. I like that Isabelle is her own established character that most people seem to generally like over yet another silent avatar character. Plus, I’ve never really been a big fan of what the human characters look like in the Animal Crossing games but that’s just personal bias.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Personally I'd love more Isabelle style semi clones. Isabelle has enough changes that she turns a character I can't stand playing (Villager) into a character I genuinely love to play.

Agreed, I think there’s great potential in picks like Skyward Sword Impa or Octoling or Alph even if they stick to the template of their inspiration, but, y’know, Villager already has its semi-clone on the roster. This is all personal apprehension and taste though and definitely not a reason to count out Animal Crossing in the prediction side of speculation.

ah I see it’s you don’t think the smash team would do it

yeah

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, if I was basing my roster purely off of what I think is deserving rather than leaning more towards my own personal interest, I’d definitely add another Animal Crossing and Splatoon character. I’ve just never been personally invested in Animal Crossing, Splatoon, or Pikmin which is why I didn’t add any characters on my own list. Realistically, I think it’s extremely likely we’ll at least get another Splatoon character in the next game. I did try to keep my picks to characters I could at least make a decent argument for their inclusion so it’s not pure bias on my end.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like I’ve posted the same spiel about Tom Nook about a dozen times so at this point it’s on y’all whether you want to listen or not lol. I don’t mean to sound brash but at a certain point I feel like people just don’t want to hear it. He can be plenty unique even off the bare minimum foundation of “he has a tanooki tail”. I don’t see him being as carefree and activity based as Villager or Isabelle either, and there are dozens of unused props from the series. Theming around bells, Nookling assists, Mario 3 references…

I understand not loving the way Isabelle was implemented - I have my reservations about it too. Personally I’d rather she didn’t have the slingshot, because it homogenizes her a bit too much with Villager’s playstyle, but it’s such a dominant part of her neutral that I struggle to find a solution without unrealistically overhauling the character. Either way this is unlikely to make her a low priority.

I’ll just say that everything I’ve heard about Tom Nook was said about Isabelle before she was playable too. You could of course say, well Louie, she was a semiclone! But actually, people were saying she was totally going to be an echo fighter (I wasn’t). The community has a history of underestimating these characters. I’m fairly confident it’s going to happen again.

 

[Sucumbio]

Rhythm games seem to be the most popular attraction at modern Japanese arcades, not counting the sea of claw machines. I saw a lot of couples taking turns on them together. I saw Taiko no Tatsujin and ONGEKI Bright the most often and both are a lot of fun, but there are just so many that I don't really know how to describe the landscape of Japanese arcade rhythm games beyond that.

Claw machines eh? I'm horrible at those but my wife won a Pikachu out the UFO machine at Walmart years ago lol

 

[Perkilator]

Really, I think the Smash community in general has a problem with either underestimating or overestimating certain characters’ chances with no in between.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Yeah, if I was basing my roster purely off of what I think is deserving rather than leaning more towards my own personal interest, I’d definitely add another Animal Crossing and Splatoon character. I’ve just never been personally invested in Animal Crossing, Splatoon, or Pikmin which is why I didn’t add any characters on my own list. Realistically, I think it’s extremely likely we’ll at least get another Splatoon character in the next game. I did try to keep my picks to characters I could at least make a decent argument for their inclusion so it’s not pure bias on my end.

Pikmin should gain three newcomers in Alph (as Olimar (semi)clone), Titan Dweevil (& Louie) and Oatchi (& whatever the Pikmin 4 Captain’s name is)

I feel like I’ve posted the same spiel about Tom Nook about a dozen times so at this point it’s on y’all whether you want to listen or not lol. He can be plenty unique even off the bare minimum foundation of “he has a tanooki tail”. I don’t see him being as carefree and activity based as Villager or Isabelle either, and there are dozens of unused props from the series.

I understand not loving the way Isabelle was implemented - I have my reservations about it too. Personally I’d rather she didn’t have the slingshot, because it homogenizes her a bit too much with Villager’s playstyle, but it’s such a dominant part of her neutral that I struggle to find a solution without unrealistically overhauling the character. Either way this is unlikely to make her a low priority.

I’ll just say that everything I’ve heard about Tom Nook was said about Isabelle before she was playable too. You could of course say, well Louie, she was a semiclone! But actually, people were saying she was totally going to be an echo fighter (I wasn’t). The community has a history of underestimating these characters. I’m fairly confident it’s going to happen again.

Eh, I’ve never doubted he can be unique. In fact, before Isabelle was added I was excited for her because I knew she could be unique too with Public Works traps and the like and the Dr. Sims (or whatever his name is) spawning of buildings, but what we got just soured me. To take the idiom of another public servant, I’d love to be hopeful about what can be, but I’m not unburdened by what has been. Nothing about it is about underestimating the character or ignoring about what you have said about him in the past.

 

[Gengar84]

Do you guys think Aloy actually has a realistic chance for Smash now that Switch is getting Lego Horizon? I thought the first Horizon game was a lot of fun with a really unique theme and setting. Aloy has a lot of fun options for a potential moveset and I think a Horizon stage would be awesome. She’d give us another iconic female fighter and would be a cool choice for the first Sony rep in Smash. I’m still not really expecting anything but at least it’s not totally out of the question now.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Smash 6 roster speculation

Welcome to the forums!

No brand-new third party companies or series so I would put them

With how big of a deal Mario Kart’s become thanks to 8 Deluxe, do you think it’ll get more significant content in the next Smash?

I just want the Rainbow Road stage back!

At the very least, they should brougth back 3DS Rainbow Road.

Now that that course is in MK8, they can remake the Stage too.

well it should be. ice types are the best

While Garchomp is my #1 pick for a Dragon-type. I'd also be willing to accept Baxcalibur.

Bonus points for getting a Godzilla-like character into Smash without having to go 4P.

 

[Louie G.]

Eh, I’ve never doubted he can be unique. In fact, before Isabelle was added I was excited for her because I knew she could be unique too with Public Works traps and the like and the Dr. Sims (or whatever his name is) spawning of buildings, but what we got just soured me. To take the idiom of another public servant, I’d love to be hopeful about what can be, but I’m not unburdened by what has been. Nothing about it is about underestimating the character or ignoring about what you have said about him in the past.

Fair enough. I have similar reservations about Octoling, personally. You could obviously do a ton of cool weapons from the later games, but lately I’m even just skewing conservative and believing they could just be a costume option for four of the Inkling colors. So I understand being shaky on it, especially since we already have that past precedent.

That said, I simply think Tom Nook is one of the most important Nintendo characters left and offers enough unique potential to inspire something more fresh. Worst case scenario, he would be Villager’s Wolf… which isn’t a bad thing to be, either. But I just can’t think of all that many things Villager does that the stuffier Tom Nook would look natural doing, compared to the way the innocent and chipper Isabelle does.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Bonus points for getting a Godzilla-like character into Smash without having to go 4P.

Smash!Bowser: "Am I a joke to you?"
And that's how i bring back the bad/weird characterization talk.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Fair enough. I have similar reservations about Octoling, personally. You could obviously do a ton of cool weapons from the later games, but lately I’m even just skewing conservative and believing they could just be a costume option for four of the Inkling colors. So I understand being shaky on it, especially since we already have that past precedent.

That said, I simply think Tom Nook is one of the most important Nintendo characters left and offers enough unique potential to inspire something more fresh. Worst case scenario, he would be Villager’s Wolf… which isn’t a bad thing to be, either. But I just can’t think of all that many things Villager does that the stuffier Tom Nook would look natural doing them, compared to the way the innocent and chipper Isabelle does.

I think Octoling should be a semiclone. For all intents and purposes they are the same as Inklings in Splatoon, and I generally dislike Octoling movesets that are a transparent attempt at a DLC-ized Inkling set.

 

[Arcanir]

There's legitimately no situation I can see Isabelle getting cut. She's been one of Nintendo's most prominent faces since her introduction, to the point that she gets advertised alongside old classics like Mario, Link, and Samus, and new stars like Inklings.

Personally I'd love more Isabelle style semi clones. Isabelle has enough changes that she turns a character I can't stand playing (Villager) into a character I genuinely love to play.

This bring up a question I've been thinking about: What other potential newcomers could be added as a semi-clone? We usually kick around easy targets like Tom Nook and Octoling, perhaps unfairly, but there are other characters that could feasibly use a pre-existing character from the same franchise as a base and still feel like their own character with the changes given. It's not something we really consider or like talking about since most of the requests we give we want to be wholly unique, but Smash has historically added clone characters where possible, and the next Smash has a good chance of doing the same. It's an option to consider, especially for characters who could slip through in the initial selection (for instance, while a fan-favorite in his franchise, we probably wouldn't have gotten Wolf if he couldn't use Fox as a base).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

With how big of a deal Mario Kart’s become thanks to 8 Deluxe, do you think it’ll get more significant content in the next Smash?

I think it'll keep getting what it's been getting; Stages, Music, and Items. Unless they want to add Pink Gold Peach for whatever reason, it's doubtful that the series will ever get a newcomer. As far as that goes, it would be kind of funny if she was an echo fighter of Peach who opened item boxes instead of pulling vegetables, but I have a hard time envisioning a way that that would be interesting and wouldn't be horribly unbalanced. Perhaps she tosses them forward like Faust does so both players have a chance to grab the item?

So? His moveset would still be predominantly water attacks.

Suicune is just as much associated ice as it is with water, and I think that's due to the north wind inspiration. To answer Gengar84 's question, Suicune has a lot of unnamed Water type attacks, as well as Hydro Pump, but the rest of his special moves are Ice type: Aurora Beam, Mirror Coat, Hail, Blizzard, and Icy Wind. His big super is "True Sheer Cold", which is also Ice type, and hilariously doesn't instakill despite the name implying that it's better. lol

 

[Louie G.]

This bring up a question I've been thinking about: What other potential newcomers could be added as a semi-clone? We usually kick around easy targets like Tom Nook and Octoling, perhaps unfairly, but there are other characters that could feasibly use a pre-existing character from the same franchise as a base and still feel like their own character with the changes given.

I guess Shadow? Might depend on how Sonic content is dealt with otherwise (if we got a separate unique character) but I could see it at this point.

They could also do the Rookie from Pikmin 4, kind of making up for the shortcomings with Alph and allowing them to use Rock and now Ice Pikmin. Again, might depend on how the series is handled otherwise. I don't think there would be much need for this if they added Oatchi.

I'm not sure who else. I think a lot of the stronger choices have already been accounted for, but maybe some Falco-esque upgrades for Daisy or Dark Samus?

Personally I'd love more Isabelle style semi clones. Isabelle has enough changes that she turns a character I can't stand playing (Villager) into a character I genuinely love to play.

The Fishing Rod and the Lloid trap are such nice additions to the Villager mold. Isabelle's stronger focus on this stage control angle is why I like playing her more too, on top of just liking the character herself better. But I really think it rounds out the kit nicely.

I do like Villager's tree, but it does feel a bit more gimmicky. That, along with his Bowling Ball, does give you some dangerous ledge traps but Isabelle's Lloid feels like a stronger utility that you wanna have on stage whenever you can. And Villager's Lloid Rocket... I just don't like it very much.

 

[fogbadge]

I think it'll keep getting what it's been getting; Stages, Music, and Items. Unless they want to add Pink Gold Peach for whatever reason, it's doubtful that the series will ever get a newcomer. As far as that goes, it would be kind of funny if she was an echo fighter of Peach who opened item boxes instead of pulling vegetables, but I have a hard time envisioning a way that that would be interesting and wouldn't be horribly unbalanced. Perhaps she tosses them forward like Faust does so both players have a chance to grab the item?


Suicune is just as much associated ice as it is with water, and I think that's due to the north wind inspiration. To answer Gengar84 's question, Suicune has a lot of unnamed Water type attacks, as well as Hydro Pump, but the rest of his special moves are Ice type: Aurora Beam, Mirror Coat, Hail, Blizzard, and Icy Wind. His big super is "True Sheer Cold", which is also Ice type, and hilariously doesn't instakill despite the name implying that it's better. lol

this is ice type erasure and I won’t stand for it

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Aside from Figure-8 Circuit, the Mario Kart stages appear to be ripped directly from their source games. The reason why it's not in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, is likely due to the fact that a high-res version of Mario Kart 7's Rainbow Road did not exist, and now that it does, I think it's highly likely to return.

Also, since Brawl had a stage loosely based on Mario Kart DS, SSB3Ds had a stage from Mario Kart 7, and SSBWiiU had a stage from Mark Kart 8, I predict that the next game will feature a new stage from Mario Kart 10. Said stage could be a new Rainbow Road, in which case Mario Kart 7's Rainbow Road won't return here, and it could also be Mario Circuit, which would give Mario Kart 8's version the boot, but I think it will be something new entirely, and both stages will return. Figure-8 Circuit could stay or leave as well, but I can't really place any bets on that.

So for full predictions, I'm locking in:

1. Rainbow Road (Mario Kart 7)
2. Mario Circuit (Mario Kart 8)
3. ??? (Mario Kart 10)

 

[Guynamednelson]

The reason why it's not in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, is likely due to the fact that a high-res version of Mario Kart 7's Rainbow Road did not exist

That reasoning would make more sense if Port Town Aero Dive didn't start as a direct GX port before needing to be remade for SSBU. Personally my theory is that Rainbow Road and SSBM's Mute City aren't in SSBU because there's already stages with the premise of touring around a Mario Kart/F-Zero track with racers as hazards.

 

[Gengar84]

There's legitimately no situation I can see Isabelle getting cut. She's been one of Nintendo's most prominent faces since her introduction, to the point that she gets advertised alongside old classics like Mario, Link, and Samus, and new stars like Inklings.



This bring up a question I've been thinking about: What other potential newcomers could be added as a semi-clone? We usually kick around easy targets like Tom Nook and Octoling, perhaps unfairly, but there are other characters that could feasibly use a pre-existing character from the same franchise as a base and still feel like their own character with the changes given. It's not something we really consider or like talking about since most of the requests we give we want to be wholly unique, but Smash has historically added clone characters where possible, and the next Smash has a good chance of doing the same. It's an option to consider, especially for characters who could slip through in the initial selection (for instance, while a fan-favorite in his franchise, we probably wouldn't have gotten Wolf if he couldn't use Fox as a base).

There’s a few characters that could make for really cool semiclones where neither character is in Smash yet too. The most obvious example is Scorpion and Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat. In the classic games, the characters shared all the basic normal attacks and only differed in their specials. A similar idea could also work for Smash. Nightmare and Seigfried from Soul Calibur could work in a similar way. Then there’s the Battletoads that could work in several ways from simple alt outfits to full on unique characters and everything in between. In the original Battletoads game as well as Battletoads & Double Dragon, the Toads all played exactly the same. In Battlemaniacs, the arcade game, and the 2020 reboot, they were completely original. I feel like you could go with either approach or a middle ground. Realistically, they’d bricks to even get one slot so I’m perfectly happy with them as alts based off the classic games and Killer Instinct 2013.

On a completely separate topic, my favorite wanted Ice type Pokemon are Sneasel, Kyurem, Glalie and Alolan Sandslash. Beyond Pokemon, other Ice element users I’d love to see in Smash include Sub-Zero, Glacius, Arthas and Bad Mr. Frosty. Ice is actually my favorite element in fiction so I’d love to see more of it in these games.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I wonder if Bandana Waddle Dee would be more semicloned from Kirby than people are talking about. While Kirby obviously doesn’t use a spear, BWD reuses a whole lot of Kirby’s other animations in Kirby games, so he could save a little bit of animation work.

I compared them in Star Allies just now and they share animations like the the standing “swinging arms back and forth” idling animation, crouch, single jump from the ground, slide kick, guard, and roll dodge animations. They probably also share taking damage animations too but I didn’t check those. I checked Forgotten Land as well and they have the same jump and dodge roll still, and the same animations for the 4 taunts you can do with the D-pad.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That reasoning would make more sense if Port Town Aero Dive didn't start as a direct GX port before needing to be remade for SSBU. Personally my theory is that Rainbow Road and SSBM's Mute City aren't in SSBU because there's already stages with the premise of touring around a Mario Kart/F-Zero track with racers as hazards.

I would also argue that time was a big factor. IIRC one of the Pic of the Days said that ripping the track from Mario Kart 7 was the only way that the stage was able to be added to SSB3Ds, and since it wasn't also put on SSBWiiU, it just wouldn't have made sense to recreate it instead of other stages since you could do more with that time.

I wonder if Bandana Waddle Dee would be more semicloned from Kirby than people are talking about. While Kirby obviously doesn’t use a spear, BWD reuses a whole lot of Kirby’s other animations in Kirby games, so he could save a little bit of animation work.

I compared them in Star Allies just now and they share animations like the the standing “swinging arms back and forth” idling animation, crouch, single jump from the ground, slide kick, guard, and roll dodge animations. They probably also share taking damage animations too but I didn’t check those. I checked Forgotten Land as well and they have the same jump and dodge roll still, and the same animations for the 4 taunts you can do with the D-pad.

My thinking with that is just, flavor animations do not a semi-clone make. I'd say it's more likely for him to otherwise be wholly original. At most, he'd share a few normal moves with him like up tilt or neutral aerial or something.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I wonder if Bandana Waddle Dee would be more semicloned from Kirby than people are talking about. While Kirby obviously doesn’t use a spear, BWD reuses a whole lot of Kirby’s other animations in Kirby games, so he could save a little bit of animation work.

I compared them in Star Allies just now and they share animations like the the standing “swinging arms back and forth” idling animation, crouch, single jump from the ground, slide kick, guard, and roll dodge animations. They probably also share taking damage animations too but I didn’t check those. I checked Forgotten Land as well and they have the same jump and dodge roll still, and the same animations for the 4 taunts you can do with the D-pad.

I dunno, considering Bandana Dee has a constant weapon, I can't really see him copying too many normals from Kirby, who doesn't constantly have a weapon on him visually. And all of his specials would HAVE to be unique since Bandana Dee can't use Inhale, Hammer, Cutter, or Stone.

And hey, maybe we'll finally get a Kirby character who actually USES the slide kick as a Down Tilt! Since Kirby just has his little squat kick and all.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Pretty sure it also gets Ice moves like Ice Beam and Blizzard. Most Water types do. Suicune definitely looks like it could be an Ice type even though it’s mono Water. I could see Smash giving it some attacks of each type.

I will agree that Suicune is a great choice for Smash. It’s my favorite Pokemon of any of the legendary trios and we could use more quadrupedal characters.

I totally forgot Suicune Is actually a water type lmao. Must be because he's always used ice attacks in Smash.

 

[Perkilator]

Aside from Figure-8 Circuit, the Mario Kart stages appear to be ripped directly from their source games. The reason why it's not in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, is likely due to the fact that a high-res version of Mario Kart 7's Rainbow Road did not exist, and now that it does, I think it's highly likely to return.

Also, since Brawl had a stage loosely based on Mario Kart DS, SSB3Ds had a stage from Mario Kart 7, and SSBWiiU had a stage from Mark Kart 8, I predict that the next game will feature a new stage from Mario Kart 10. Said stage could be a new Rainbow Road, in which case Mario Kart 7's Rainbow Road won't return here, and it could also be Mario Circuit, which would give Mario Kart 8's version the boot, but I think it will be something new entirely, and both stages will return. Figure-8 Circuit could stay or leave as well, but I can't really place any bets on that.

So for full predictions, I'm locking in:

1. Rainbow Road (Mario Kart 7)
2. Mario Circuit (Mario Kart 8)
3. ??? (Mario Kart 10)

There could also be a Mario Kart stage based on a course ripped from the Booster Course Pass like Ninja Hideaway or Waluigi Pinball.

 

[Louie G.]

I wonder if Bandana Waddle Dee would be more semicloned from Kirby than people are talking about. While Kirby obviously doesn’t use a spear, BWD reuses a whole lot of Kirby’s other animations in Kirby games, so he could save a little bit of animation work.

I've thought about this. I think TheFirstPoppyBro is probably correct in their judgement, but I see this scenario being much more comparable to Jigglypuff than it would be like, a straight up "semiclone" as we typically understand it. No doubt BWD's specials would be unique, but attacks that simply involve Kirby's stubby feet - like perhaps bair, dair, a retooled d-tilt (finally) etc can easily carry over to Dee. I don't think EVERY attack would involve the spear, just for the sake of variety, so the next and only step is his feet really.

Mind you, I don't think this really qualifies him as a semiclone but I do think Kirby is a strong skeleton to build him off of. Their similarities in body type as well as his relative design / animation simplicity does make me infer that he would be a bit less of an undertaking than many other candidates. Presumably even with a fully unique moveset they might be able to spend less time on animation and vis dev.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Aside from Figure-8 Circuit, the Mario Kart stages appear to be ripped directly from their source games. The reason why it's not in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, is likely due to the fact that a high-res version of Mario Kart 7's Rainbow Road did not exist, and now that it does, I think it's highly likely to return.

Exactly.