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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

DarthEnderX

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True or False.

We need more characters like Sheik. A fan favorite that while a one shot, is beloved by their fanbase and is a key part of a monumental game.
Probably false? I mean, we wouldn't even HAVE Sheik if she didn't start out as Zelda's transformation. This character basically only exists because of 3DS hardware limitations.

Certainly not the kind of character I would normally request. I prefer iconic characters from franchises not in Smash yet(Hayabusa, Dante, etc.) Or very well-established characters from franchises that already are in Smash(Alucard, Zero, etc.)
 
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Gengar84

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Probably false? I mean, we wouldn't even HAVE Sheik if she didn't start out as Zelda's transformation. This character basically only exists because of 3DS hardware limitations.

Certainly not the kind of character I would normally request. I prefer iconic characters from franchises not in Smash yet(Hayabusa, Dante, etc.) Or very well-established characters from franchises that already are in Smash(Alucard, Zero, etc.)
I think if the character made a big impact and has a lot of fans that would love to see them in Smash, that should be the only thing that matters. Being in multiple games shouldn’t be a requirement in my opinion. Sure, it helps but plenty of characters can leave a strong impression with just one game. For example, I feel like Skull Kid and Midna would probably make for more exciting Smash characters than a recurring character like Beetle. Their fanbases have kept them both relevant over the years despite each only appearing once in the main series. Their appearance in Hyrule Warriors is a testament to that. Even Impa (who is my most wanted as her HW version) is most commonly requested as a Shiek echo or replacement. The limitation that a character has to be recurring to even be put up for consideration never really made sense to me.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Although the difference between the project plans and the actual release might be longer than last time. The project plan might have been decided last year, and if Gen 10 is 2026 that would mean that the game is three years out from its actual release at the time the project plan was decided. In the case of Smash 4 the project plan was decided in 2012, immediately after development on Kid Icarus: Uprising wrapped up which is only one year out from XY's release, and Ultimate's project plan was decided in 2016, which was the exact same year Sun and Moon came out. And Gen 10 could potentially be delayed to even further out in case of unforeseen incidents that could happen during production. It might be safer at this point to push the Gen 10 rep to DLC.
Interesting. If that's true, then the characters aren't picked as far in advance as we kind of assumed, with Greninja being the most extreme example, coming out a year after the finalized project plan. That's why he was just concept art at the time. This would mean that Gen 10 probably isn't eligible, though stranger things have happened. There could be an important design that they finalize next year or something.

Even so, I would bet that a Gen 9 or prior Pokémon would be selected for base, with perhaps a Gen 10 DLC character on top of that should it be significant enough.

Is Gunflame a projectile? I seem to remember it's just a mid-range attack that doesn't really go far. More like Terry's aerial Power Wave, I think, and that isn't really a projectile
Potemkin can flick it, so as far as I know that means it is mechanically a projectile. It is a mid range projectile in this game, but I'm sure those pop up from time to time in fighting games.

It's certainly no Hadouken, but Sol really isn't a Ryu clone anyway.
 

Slime Scholar

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Shiek feels like one of those fighters that nobody would be asking for if she wasn’t already grandfathered into the series. And she’s minor enough that if I had to cut a single wholly unique Zelda fighter (and I certainly don’t want that), it would pretty much have to be her.

But broadly I also agree with the sentiment that Smash is more interesting for having a mix of iconic, recurring stars and popular one-off characters. If every pick were super obvious that would be boring. As long as they’re not total flavor-of-the-month I’d be happy to see more one-offs.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Sheik wasn't a bad choice. At that given time. But I just generally feel Melee having 5 Zelda characters and 4 newcomers all added at once withheld a lot of potential other newcomers for Zelda. Ultimate having 6 with the return of Young Link is a good number, but it's quantity over quality I feel. How do we justify 3 Links, 2 Zeldas and 3 cloney characters ?

The fact a Toon Zelda and even a Toon Sheik where seriously requested for Brawl makes matters even worse. Imagine we ended up with that? And they'd be forced back into the roster in Ultimate? Alongside Young Link ? Disastrous.

Zelda is the biggest franchise that needs it's roster reset and done right. I feel this is far more necessary than even Fire Emblem and Pokémon.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Gray Fox is the only one I can think of atm but there are others I'm sure but it's definitely a rare category.
Yeah The Legend of Zelda and Kirby are really the only ones that have these (and even then I'm ignoring Kirby Star Allies). Fire Emblem used to but now brings its characters back for DLC or anniversary games. Xenoblade Chronicles loves to bring back its protagonists. Persona rotates its casts, but Persona 4 and 5 had a bunch of spin-offs so they aren't quite one-offs so much as they're generational.
Who is your favorite koopaling? Mine is :ultroy2:
:ultlarry:
 
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SPEN18

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I don't have a problem with one-off types whose merit is predicated primarily on a single yet highly influential appearance. There are several I'd love to see who fit that category to varying degrees. Obviously more appearances is a point in favor of those who have them, but this hardly disqualifies anyone with only one.

However, I disagree with propping up Sheik as some kind of "shining example" of those sorts of cases, as it's difficult to compare her initial and continued inclusion in Smash to anyone else, due to how Sheik was hitched to Zelda and a transformation mechanic from the start. Even if more one-off types were to make their way onto the roster, Sheik's inclusion would still be better viewed as anomaly than blueprint for later additions.
 

Gengar84

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I don't have a problem with one-off types whose merit is predicated primarily on a single yet highly influential appearance. There are several I'd love to see who fit that category to varying degrees. Obviously more appearances is a point in favor of those who have them, but this hardly disqualifies anyone with only one.

However, I disagree with propping up Sheik as some kind of "shining example" of those sorts of cases, as it's difficult to compare her initial and continued inclusion in Smash to anyone else, due to how Sheik was hitched to Zelda and a transformation mechanic from the start. Even if more one-off types were to make their way onto the roster, Sheik's inclusion would still be better viewed as anomaly than blueprint for later additions.
I think Sheik is a special case where she’s retained popularity primarily because of her inclusion in Smash. I view it in the same boat as Captain Falcon. While she doesn’t really have quite the same significance as some other potential characters, a lot of people love playing her in Smash. The fact that she’s a cool ninja version of Zelda in a game with very few ninja characters helps a lot too. If Sheik was never in Smash in the first place, I agree that some other Zelda characters would likely outprioritize her. She’s always been one of my favorite Smash characters since Melee though and I’ll miss her if she’s cut.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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I feel like people overblow how much Zelda needs a new character tbh.


It feels well represented to me.
I'd say it's like if Super Mario was limited to just Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser (though I suppose for a direct comparison it'd be Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi, Peach, Ninja Peach, and Bowser, but as a clone of DK or something). All the bases are covered, but fans can't help but want more, especially after 3 games of not a whole lot else.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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I feel like people overblow how much Zelda needs a new character tbh.


It feels well represented to me.
Mario was this way in Brawl, but that sure didn't stop his franchise from getting more later. Yes, I know this has been discussed to death, but I don't get why the overinclusion of characters in one franchise isn't something to point at for discussing another franchise's lack of newcomers in recent Smash titles. There's no escaping the questionable nature of the lopsided decisions, especially after over a decade of nothing, in cases like Zelda.
 

Schnee117

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Zelda's roster has been effectively stagnant since Melee, that's over 20 years of the same playable cast with one Small Link being swapped out for another Small Link and then us having both on the same roster in Ultimate. Yeah it's covered the main bases and Zelda is rich in content elsewhere so it's incorrect to say the series is poorly represented as a whole (it's very well represented overall) but when it comes to the playable characters in specific, it's very underwhelming for Nintendo's second major franchise to have three Links, Zelda, Zelda but she's a ninja and a Ganondorf that does a poor job of representing what Ganondorf is actually like.

If the series is still unable to get a unique newcomer outside of the triforce trio in the next game despite how much the series has blown up with BotW and TotK and the constant demand for a proper newcomer there should be major questions asked because come on man, there's so much potential being sat on and wasted. Throw in Midna, throw in Skull Kid, just stop being a coward and pick a Champion to throw in because this "but who would they pick, it's unfair" thing is stupid, throw in Ghirahim.
 

Oracle Link

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I feel like people overblow how much Zelda needs a new character tbh.


It feels well represented to me.
I mean if current zelda is well represented then mario only needs:
Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser

Pokemon only needs:
Pokemon Trainer and pikachu maybe mewtwo if im charitable

Amongst charcters like: Dixie toad and others not being needed! (sorry i dont think waluigi is neededso i edited that part)

What we have for zelda is basically the bare essentials:
(Champion) Link, (Classic) Toon/Young Link, Zelda, Another Zelda form thats pretty minor, And the MAin Villain!
Two of these Characters are pretty unneccesary Young Link and Sheik, and the main villain doesnt even have his own moveset!

Again even if we have to stay at six why not atleast add a Impa Costume, Add Skull kid instead of young link and add tons of versions of link and zelda as costumes ah yeah and give ganon his own moveset than its "well Represented"!

Also because this was harsh here have a derpy Vsm:
1721070985207.png
 
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dream1ng

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I feel like people overblow how much Zelda needs a new character tbh.


It feels well represented to me.
Reposty:

Yeah the stages and everything under that are fine. But the roster of six is half filled with varying levels of clone, including three Links and a moveset originating from a totally different IP for one of gaming's biggest villains. Then there's Zelda and other Zelda, the lone one-off.

There's been no character since Brawl, and no original character since Melee. One Smash game makes up 4/6 of all Zelda additions. Two of the main three have movesets which don't even represent what they do in the games that well (though that's also a function of when they were added).

How many Zelda games have released since the last character was chosen? Even without spin-offs and remakes, it must be close to half the series... including two which constitute like... a third of the total series sales.

Meanwhile there are a wealth of popular b-tier characters ranging from the last 25 years of games, the amount of whom people would like to see it's actually inhibiting one from pulling ahead of the others.

I agree that representation doesn't just come from fighters. But the fighters are the central component of the game, and are the most cared about, most discussed, most marketed, most hype-inducing part of Smash. They're who you play as. And in that regard, I think Zelda has room for improvement.
 

superprincess

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I mean if current zelda is well represented then mario only needs:
Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser

Pokemon only needs:
Pokemon Trainer and pikachu maybe mewtwo if im charitable
This is a bad analogy. The Super Mario brand always places a focus on its cast, with a wide array of playable characters making its way into the mainline games that traditionally only featured Mario/Luigi as an option. Not to mention the spinoffs–that sometimes outsell said mainlines games–always make sure to include a variety of characters.

Pokémon's whole appeal comes from the huge number of monsters. The series slogan is literally "gotta catch 'em all". The Dexit drama alone should show how important the Pokémon themself are to the series.

Compare that to the Legend of Zelda series. The games are never really sold on characters. You have the trifecta of important characters (Link - the protagonist, Zelda - the plot device, Ganon(dorf) - the big bad) and then a bunch of one and done side characters that come and go without much fanfare. Characters are never the focus of a Zelda game, the focus is usually the vast amount of weapons that allow you to get crafty with your puzzle-solving, and the big, sprawling kingdom of Hyrule and its dungeons that you can explore.

The difference is clear. More Zelda characters would be nice, but besides the Triforce holders, nobody's really begging for a Smash inclusion. The problem with Zelda's character representation isn't the quantity, but the quality. If the Links were better representations of their respective games instead of overlapping and if Ganondorf wasn't such a blatant clone of Captain Falcon, things would feel much better.
 

KingofPhantoms

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After Mario got Rosalina and Bowser Jr., Pokemon got a variety of different Pokemon, and Fire Emblem got several vastly different characters (and while there's technically four characters who fight like Marth, all of them still have a few differing moves, statistics, and at least aren't literally just another version of Link in-universe), Zelda's playable cast is comparatively well represented, but underwhelming and missing out on tons of characters who are both fan favorites and have tons of potential as fighters.

Skull Kid, Tetra, Vaati, Midna, Ghirahim, and any of the Champions or Sages would've all made perfect sense to be added at at least some point if not still now. They're all important to the series, all have considerable fanbases, and all of them could easily make for unique characters with creative movesets and fun playstyles.

For whatever reason, none of them or any other important or fan favorite Zelda characters have ever been added to the roster. The series is long overdue for some brand new fighters who aren't just another semi-clone of Link.
 

ScrubReborn

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Don't have much else to add on the Zelda problem, but I will say if Zelda is getting a non-triforce rep, now's probably the time, the Wild Saga's impact feels pretty unaviodable at this point, so with that + the demand I think a Champion could happen. If Rosalina can get added near entirely off the back of one game, I don't think that's a valid reason to exclude non Triforce Zeldas.

...Then again the team's first choice for more Zelda newcomers in Brawl were ****in Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik (who isn't even real), so who knows. Maybe Triforce bias is Zelda's real multi-generational evil curse that Link must slay. Seriously, if you think the Triforce complaints are intense now, imagine if they actually managed to include those two.

Who is your favorite koopaling? Mine is :ultroy2:
Mah boy :ultmorton:. I probably wouldn't have touched Junior if it wasn't for him... even tho I dropped him anyways 'cause he plays like **** to me lol
 
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Diddy Kong

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I feel like people overblow how much Zelda needs a new character tbh.


It feels well represented to me.
Pokemon and Mario are well represented too, they don't need a new character either.

Guess what? They still gonna get at least one most likely.

Zelda is the biggest franchise afterwards these two, and they didn't have a newcomer since Brawl. And even that one was more of a remix from a previous character.

Even if they'd just add Impa and give both Zelda and Ganondorf new moves, that would be amazing. If they'd get rid of some characters I would even have Ganon amongst the newcomers. Impa and Ganon are two much needed additions for the Zelda franchise. Huge omnisions.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Zelda feels like a case where all their inclusions and particular designs of the characters made sense with every respective game; they just eventually amounted to a series roster that feels lacking given the sheer scope of LoZ titles across the board.

Odd comparison, but it's like the various Donkey Kong stages we've gotten in Smash. They're all fine (well maybe not 75m to many) and made sense as far as being selected, but when looking at them collectively it doesn't really feel endemic of the variety of level types the series actually has in hindsight.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I love the current cast we have. They all feel fun, and the moveset clones play quite differently enough that I don't feel like I'm using the same character at all. Or even remotely similar at that point. I do agree that regular Link feels kind of like they did a poor job in representing BOTW, though. I get that he's not going to be massively changed either way, but the minor changes worsened the character in an attempt to represent one game. A costume should've been enough. Hell, even having the Magnesis as a Throw would've been a lot better(giving him range like before). But either way, he's the only one that feels off to me(Ganondorf feels great, bar that meh Up Tilt. The rest? It feels great to pull off. Sure, the Sword feels kind of awkward to me, but it's still highly satisfying to defeat an enemy with. Power's his name, and he adheres to it well. I still wish he had a Reflector, though. It's outright missing and a tool that would help him tons while not actually changing the moveset in an alienating way).

I'd love to see Pig Ganon(specifically from ALTTP, none of that quadripedal versions. Plus, he'd be much smaller anyway, much closer to Bowser's height, as it works well as a good size in general for that kind of muscle-bound body), Impa(Oracles), and Tingle(MM). They're the last three on majorly wanted character set for the LoZ series. Not that I would've had an issue with Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik, though. Just the same moveset animations but way smaller and faster(and Toon Sheik would most likely have a far harder kill rate if she follows the same concept as a Transformation character as Sheik did) could be interesting, even moreso for Toon Zelda. No longer a slow character. Though I imagine she'd have less power in return as well. It's hard to say what they would've done with that combo. Especially since Sheik was the faster of the two Zeldas to help contrast them(whereas Young Link and Toon Link were meant to be faster to contrast regular Link's slower gameplay).
 

Noipoi

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Zelda feels like a case where all their inclusions and particular designs of the characters made sense with every respective game; they just eventually amounted to a series roster that feels lacking given the sheer scope of LoZ titles across the board.

Odd comparison, but it's like the various Donkey Kong stages we've gotten in Smash. They're all fine (well maybe not 75m to many) and made sense as far as being selected, but when looking at them collectively it doesn't really feel endemic of the variety of level types the series actually has in hindsight.
I still think we need a Bramble Scramble stage
 

KingofPhantoms

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Characters are never the focus of a Zelda game
Considering how well many characters in the Legend of Zelda series have been written ever since Majora's Mask, I strongly disagree.

the focus is usually the vast amount of weapons that allow you to get crafty with your puzzle-solving, and the big, sprawling kingdom of Hyrule and its dungeons that you can explore.

The difference is clear. More Zelda characters would be nice, but besides the Triforce holders, nobody's really begging for a Smash inclusion. The problem with Zelda's character representation isn't the quantity, but the quality. If the Links were better representations of their respective games instead of overlapping and if Ganondorf wasn't such a blatant clone of Captain Falcon, things would feel much better.
It's actually more of a matter of both issues being the case. Sure, all three Links could be distinct from one and other moveset-wise, in the same vein that Sheik's is completely different from Zelda's, and Ganondorf could be given more distinct moves like Dead Man's Volley, a levitation ability and more sword attacks.

Brawl and Ultimate slightly remedied it by giving Ganondorf more unique attacks like Flame Choke and his sword-based Smash attacks, while Smash 4 separating Zelda and Sheik allowed both to branch out and see more creative potential, but at the end of the day, the series would still be missing several iconic fan favorite characters who all have unique powers and skills of their own to add the table, and I don't think support for characters like Skull Kid or the Champions would've died down significantly if the same few characters we've had for the past several games had gotten more unique movesets earlier.
 
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dream1ng

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Compare that to the Legend of Zelda series. The games are never really sold on characters. You have the trifecta of important characters (Link - the protagonist, Zelda - the plot device, Ganon(dorf) - the big bad) and then a bunch of one and done side characters that come and go without much fanfare. Characters are never the focus of a Zelda game, the focus is usually the vast amount of weapons that allow you to get crafty with your puzzle-solving, and the big, sprawling kingdom of Hyrule and its dungeons that you can explore.
characters not being the focus, come and go without much fanfare
> Majora's Mask


> Twilight Princess


> Skyward Sword


wat

these are literally the titles of the games

and some of these characters have remained very popular fifteen, twenty, twenty-five years later

yeah gameplay wise they're not the focus (though some kinda are, like Midna)... but neither are Zelda or Ganondorf, for the most part. Narrative/presence is what makes basically everyone other than Link notable.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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I think the sheer fun and depth demonstrated by one-offs in stuff like the first Hyrule Warriors really made the lack of such in Smash feel a bit more blatant. Yes, they're two different genres, but there's such potential seen in HW with a Skull Kid to name one example that it makes the what if possibilities for SSB seem even more tantalizing.
 
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