Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hello, I'm important now.


If we got a Zelda mook as an enemy, Right now I'm gravitating towards Redead. Imagine that iconic screech. Also a playable Zombi.... I just remembered we already have a playable Zombie, don't mind me.

When you grab him. No you don't.

Forget all these characters from older games. Tulin for the next Smash.

Best Sage and Champion with the best attacks and power and the best character development.

Also, Rito are awesome.

Ah yes, the only Sage I've met thus far...I didn't really care for him. Seen his trope far too many times for it to be compelling by itself.

He is less boring than his father though.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

For what it's worth, I've always felt like Zelda and Kirby were not selected randomly to be the two Nintendo series to receive a new boss in Ultimate.
Kirby in particular, is the only core series (with core I mean those that have been in since the first couple of games and aren't limited to just one character) that didn't receive new content, or even any "old" new content. Zelda did get more new stuff: a new stage, a couple of estensive reworks to existing characters, and of course the return of Young Link, but it's not quite like getting K. Rool or Ridley or Incineroar.
Not saying that Ganon and Marx were consolation prizes, but I don't know. To me it felt like they knew people wanted more Zelda and Kirby characters and acknowledged that via a boss. Like, I don't know, they have a similar energy to K. Rool's Mii costume back in Smash 4 imo.
(By my own definition, Starfox also didn't get anything, but being a much smaller series than Zelda and Kirby nowadays, Wolf coming back felt to me like it was enough.)
So yeah, it's a gut feeling but I'd keep an eye on those two. They're very likely to get a newcomer next game imo.


Speaking of bosses, I went back to Pyrosphere Ridley after all these years out of sheer curiosity and lmao. That really didn't work as the "correct" Ridley representation as opposed to his playable form.
He floated around slooooowly, spent half his time crashed on the ground due to how many hits he took from all the fighters and getting up slooooowly, and sometimes he hit the stage with a couple of slooooow screen-filling attacks.
When I think of Ridley boss fights, I think of frantic encounters where you're both constantly moving and he can drain your health in a couple of attacks, size aside Ultimate Ridley captures that energy so much better than Smash 4's giant Ridley pinata.
The Brawl boss fights, while still not ideal, also managed to make him feel like Ridley, the second one in particular... But man they really dropped the ball with Pyrosphere Ridley imo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The Brawl boss fights, while still not ideal, also managed to make him feel like Ridley, the second one in particular... But man they really dropped the ball with Pyrosphere Ridley imo.

Meta Ridley was tough. For a while I'd keep overextending and dying, or getting timed out for playing too carefully. Even after I got the hang of it he was always the one I was worried about losing the Boss Rush run to.

Granted, this was back when my playstyle was Wolf's Dash Attack, but still. Tabuu's the only other boss that gave me trouble, and even then he became pretty easy when I discovered spot dodging and dodge rolling.

 

[Louie G.]

The Brawl boss fights, while still not ideal, also managed to make him feel like Ridley

I can't help but feel glad in retrospect that Sakurai always considered Ridley high priority for at least some role in the game. His old opinions on his practicality as a playable character aside, it's very obvious he has some affinity for him. Probably straight up the most prominent nonplayable character in Subspace.

I have to confess, Brawl Ridley was probably my first exposure to the character and it immediately made an impression. His portrayal in both the cutscenes and boss battle exude the same kind of ruthlessness that would be poured into his playable self over a decade later. I feel like in essence Brawl was easily the best possible way they could have handled him if a playable role wasn't an option.

Pyrosphere... yeah, I haven't touched Smash 4 in a hot minute but I don't recall being that impressed by his depiction here. I do recall us saying back in the day that Pyrosphere Ridley kinda acted as if he was a playable fighter, giving a bit of an illusion of him having a moveset or something, but a lot of it feels very clumsy and drawn out rather than swift and in your face like Ridley should be. The Other M design hasn't aged the best these days either. Definitely a downgrade from his role in Brawl but there was no story mode or boss rush to speak of so... can't be helped, I suppose.

 

[Ivander]

He is less boring than his father though.

Only because Teba was definitely given the short end of the stick. The littlest amount of descendent interaction with Link out of the 4 descendants, than his son takes over for him in TotK. The only time he got more screentime and character development to be more a main character was Age of Calamity. Also helps that he was regarded as one of the best characters gameplay-wise in AoC

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Meta Ridley was tough. For a while I'd keep overextending and dying, or getting timed out for playing too carefully. Even after I got the hang of it he was always the one I was worried about losing the Boss Rush run to.

Granted, this was back when my playstyle was Wolf's Dash Attack, but still. Tabuu's the only other boss that gave me trouble, and even then he became pretty easy when I discovered spot dodging and dodge rolling.

For some reason, my nightmare boss was Duon. Never really understood how to fight it, and the dude(s?) just never died.
Meta Ridley was mid tier imo. Relatively easy to learn, but the one who could punish you the most for a single mistake aside from Tabuu, so yeah definitely a scary fight.
Regular Ridley and Galleom on the other hand were very easy. Galleom still is!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Meta Ridley was tough. For a while I'd keep overextending and dying, or getting timed out for playing too carefully. Even after I got the hang of it he was always the one I was worried about losing the Boss Rush run to.

Granted, this was back when my playstyle was Wolf's Dash Attack, but still. Tabuu's the only other boss that gave me trouble, and even then he became pretty easy when I discovered spot dodging and dodge rolling.

I always remember Porky specifically giving me hell in higher levels of the boss rush back then, I think because the higher the difficulty went, the faster things like his running attack were, plus his giant laser sphere did an absolute TON of damage. I always prayed I got him early on so I wasn't already at high percent when I tried to do the Intense Boss Rush challenge.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think if I had to rank the Boss difficulty it'd be something like this:
GGs:
Master Core
Easy:
Crazy Hand, Marx, Master Hand, Petey Piranha, Rathalos
Regular:
Dharkon, Galeem, Galleom, Ganon, Porky, Master Hand & Crazy Hand, Master Shadow, Rayquaza, Ridley, Tabuu
Causes Problems:
Dracula, Duon, Giga Bowser, Master Giant, Master Beast, Master Edges, Meta Ridley
AAAAAA:
Galeem & Dharkon
AAAAAA:
Master Fortress

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I can't help but feel glad in retrospect that Sakurai always considered Ridley high priority for at least some role in the game. His old opinions on his practicality as a playable character aside, it's very obvious he has some affinity for him. Probably straight up the most prominent nonplayable character in Subspace.

I have to confess, Brawl Ridley was probably my first exposure to the character and it immediately made an impression. His portrayal in both the cutscenes and boss battle exude the same kind of ruthlessness that would be poured into his playable self over a decade later. I feel like in essence Brawl was easily the best possible way they could have handled him if a playable role wasn't an option.

I'm sure the Brawl boss fights played a big part in generating the Ridley craze. It was not just Metroid fans, those two very memorable boss fights + knowing about his personal history with Samus had to have moved many Smash players' needles in Ridley's direction.
Like, I love Metroid and all, but there's no way he could have rivaled the popularity of K. Rool or Banjo with just Metroid fans.
And ironically it's all due to Sakurai getting his portrayal so right in Brawl. His entrance cutscene where he slams Samus against the wall as the most kickass version of his theme still to this day starts playing was an amazing first impression.

I can understand why Pyrosphere Ridley was so slow, being a stage hazard for four players more than a traditional boss meant that his attacks had to be more telegraphed, but the end result is not nearly as powerful as either playable or regular boss Ridley. We're lucky his Brawl role existed.

 

[Arcanir]

I'm sure the Brawl boss fights played a big part in generating the Ridley craze. It was not just Metroid fans, those two very memorable boss fights + knowing about his personal history with Samus had to have moved many Smash players' needles in Ridley's direction.
Like, I love Metroid and all, but there's no way he could have rivaled the popularity of K. Rool or Banjo with just Metroid fans.
And ironically it's all due to Sakurai getting his portrayal so right in Brawl. His entrance cutscene where he slams Samus against the wall as the most kickass version of his theme still to this day starts playing was an amazing first impression.

I can understand why Pyrosphere Ridley was so slow, being a stage hazard for four players more than a traditional boss meant that his attacks had to be more telegraphed, but the end result is not nearly as powerful as either playable or regular boss Ridley. We're lucky his Brawl role existed.

Ridley's fanbase was already very big before Brawl's release.

Chronobound could probably explain it better if he was still here, but he already started to get support back with the Melee intro as it got people curious about the character. After that point Metroid had its resurgence with Fusion and Prime and he became a more recurring and important character, the manga came out which gave him more character, and with Brawl's announcement he became a frontrunner not only for Metroid, but as a whole as he was one of the big wants from the era as many thought he'd be a great addition for the series.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I think if I had to rank the Boss difficulty it'd be something like this:
GGs:
Master Core
Easy:
Crazy Hand, Marx, Master Hand, Petey Piranha, Rathalos
Regular:
Dharkon, Galeem, Galleom, Ganon, Porky, Master Hand & Crazy Hand, Master Shadow, Rayquaza, Ridley, Tabuu
Causes Problems:
Dracula, Duon, Giga Bowser, Master Giant, Master Beast, Master Edges, Meta Ridley
AAAAAA:
Galeem & Dharkon
AAAAAA:
Master Fortress

It's hard to remember the Brawl and Smash 4 ones well at this point, but I'll try.

Never managed to beat it:
Master Fortress
Galeem & Dharkon (no spirits)

Very hard:
Master Hand & Crazy Hand
Master Giant/Beast/Swords
Galeem
Dharkon

Probably not that hard but they always give me trouble:
Dracula
Duon

Very punishing but relatively easy patterns:
Tabuu
Meta Ridley

Could go either way:
Rayquaza
Rathalos
Porky

I'm confident I can win:
Ganon
Giga Bowser
Galleom

Easy:
Marx
Ridley
Master Hand
Crazy Hand

Lmao:
Petey

GO AWAY:
Yellow Devil

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do you guys think we'll see a true boss version of Metal Face or Yellow Devil?

The Yellow Devil is the weirder one of the two to add, but in Mega Man 2: The Power Fighters, they had a pretty well fleshed out boss version of him that could work quite well here, and incorporating some of the mechanics from MK II and MK III could make things interesting as well.

 

[Perkilator]

Do you guys think we'll see a true boss version of Metal Face or Yellow Devil?

The Yellow Devil is the weirder one of the two to add, but in Mega Man 2: The Power Fighters, they had a pretty well fleshed out boss version of him that could work quite well here, and incorporating some of the mechanics from MK II and MK III could make things interesting as well.

Man, I wish they did this in Ultimate, alongside a proper “boss” version of the Dark Emperor from Find Mii.

 

[Zerp]

The hardest boss in Brawl? Oh that's easy, it's the Ice Climbers. None of the other boss fights can kill every character off one neutral interaction except Tabuu, and at least Tabuu's method is extremely telegraphed. Meanwhile these guys are about as predictable as a player and just get it off any grab. And to make matters worse, they have this unique ability among bosses. For some horrifying reason mankind cannot comprehend, they can randomly spawn in multiplayer brackets, it's truly terrifying stuff.





...huh? What do you mean they're not actually a boss fight?

Speaking of bosses, I went back to Pyrosphere Ridley after all these years out of sheer curiosity and lmao. That really didn't work as the "correct" Ridley representation as opposed to his playable form.
He floated around slooooowly, spent half his time crashed on the ground due to how many hits he took from all the fighters and getting up slooooowly, and sometimes he hit the stage with a couple of slooooow screen-filling attacks.
When I think of Ridley boss fights, I think of frantic encounters where you're both constantly moving and he can drain your health in a couple of attacks, size aside Ultimate Ridley captures that energy so much better than Smash 4's giant Ridley pinata.
The Brawl boss fights, while still not ideal, also managed to make him feel like Ridley, the second one in particular... But man they really dropped the ball with Pyrosphere Ridley imo.

The main thing I remember about Pyrosphere Ridley is that he inexplicably has a stock icon. You'll barely ever see it, but it does exist on the results screen. No, really, look:

Aaaaannnd of course it's modeled after the wrong Ridley lol. I mean, it's blatantly Brawl Ridley. I swear everything about Smash 4 Ridley is kinda weird, even the smallest details feel off.

 

[Ivander]

If I had to choose two of the stage bosses to become actual bosses, I would've chosen Metal Face and Dark Emperor.

Though I kinda wish FE's Black Knight was worked on a bit more so he could be both a Boss and an Assist Trophy much like Rathalos.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At least with the Brawl Ridley icon is... it's just faster to reuse the asset. Plus, we did have confirmation that they reused tons of the old Brawl data into 4's creation anyway.

It was silly to not make a new one, but it was also time-saving. That, and since there's only one Ridley NPC in all of 4, it didn't matter what the stock icon was. It's not like there was another boss fight or something. And yes, I'm aware of the lore in Metroid as well.

It's a weird one, but I did like the concept behind him. It made it all the sweeter when he became playable in Ultimate. It felt like a constant bit of upgrading all the way to Ultimate. He has a tiny cameo in Smash 64, and a much bigger cameo in Melee, and then becomes two separated boss in Brawl, with a Stage Hazard in 4(that acts very similar to a playable character) all the way to becoming playable in Ultimate. I do agree he's not as awesome in 4 as he is in Brawl, though. I do admit I like the more silly nature of him being more of a Hazard than just a regular Boss, on the other hand. It breathed some new life into him~

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Man, I wish they did this in Ultimate, alongside a proper “boss” version of the Dark Emperor from Find Mii.

I imagine they didn't do Metal Face in this game in part because they chose Galleom as the SSB callback boss, and the two kinda overlap in terms of appeal (I.E. giant feral robots).

On the subject of Xenoblade Chronicles bosses, I think Mobius D could make quite an impression as a boss in Super Smash Bros. So would Z but...not for the right reasons. Easily my least favorite boss in the entire series.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

At least with the Brawl Ridley icon is... it's just faster to reuse the asset. Plus, we did have confirmation that they reused tons of the old Brawl data into 4's creation anyway.

It was silly to not make a new one, but it was also time-saving. That, and since there's only one Ridley NPC in all of 4, it didn't matter what the stock icon was. It's not like there was another boss fight or something. And yes, I'm aware of the lore in Metroid as well.

I remember back in the day there was big speculation on the stock icon being a different Ridley. Obviously a lot of people understood it was reusing assets, but I remember a few people were adamant that it could open the door for a DLC Ridley, sorta combining it with Other M Ridley like "Ah, so DLC Ridley will be Brawl's or a different one so it makes sense when they fight the Ridley on Pyrosphere" or something like that lol

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I remember back in the day there was big speculation on the stock icon being a different Ridley. Obviously a lot of people understood it was reusing assets, but I remember a few people were adamant that it could open the door for a DLC Ridley, sorta combining it with Other M Ridley like "Ah, so DLC Ridley will be Brawl's or a different one so it makes sense when they fight the Ridley on Pyrosphere" or something like that lol

Well, at the very least it would've been easily possible to have regular Ridley as playable anyway(not that he'd be easy to create, just that it's not hard to really justify why it'd work despite having a Boss-like version of him also there). They'd have to make a new icon for the Other M Ridley due to them having massive design differences and so it won't be confusing on the results screen, but that's kind of it.

But yeah, that was always a silly reason. Mostly cause the worst it was is that Ridley had... a silly icon instead. It also does help that we have different versions of Link in the same way more than one Ridley actually exists, so I get why people thought it was possible. Likewise, I would've loved to see Pyrosphere return just to have Ridley VS the other one for fun. That also said, at worst Pyrosphere wouldn't have a Boss when Ridley was playable(at least in 4. Ultimate might not care about that design choice), but it's not like they'd throw in another Boss into the stage either. They're completely different designs. And more importantly, it's much harder to replace Ridley compared to how Toon Link was replaced in Spirit Tracks. Entirely different kind of gimmicks, etc.

 

[Wonder Smash]

The hardest boss in Brawl was Cartman...I mean, Porky. lol

But really, Tabuu was the hardest. Overall, all the boss fights were fun, though.

 

[NintenRob]

You guys want Hard? The Wol bosses without Spirits are had. The hardest of the lot I think has to be Dracula followed by Ganon. I put Dracula first because he's the only one I haven't actually beaten yet (well, I guess there's also Dhakon, but I haven't reached him because I can't beat Dracula)

Ganon was the other big roadblock for me. The tiny hotbox on both of them makes fighting them extremely difficult.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

You guys want Hard? The Wol bosses without Spirits are had. The hardest of the lot I think has to be Dracula followed by Ganon. I put Dracula first because he's the only one I haven't actually beaten yet (well, I guess there's also Dhakon, but I haven't reached him because I can't beat Dracula)

Ganon was the other big roadblock for me. The tiny hotbox on both of them makes fighting them extremely difficult.

Pauline ptsd

 

[Wonder Smash]

Pauline ptsd

You're talking about the Pauline spirit battle?

Those Legend spirit battles might as well be boss battles themselves.

You guys want Hard? The Wol bosses without Spirits are had. The hardest of the lot I think has to be Dracula followed by Ganon. I put Dracula first because he's the only one I haven't actually beaten yet (well, I guess there's also Dhakon, but I haven't reached him because I can't beat Dracula)

Ganon was the other big roadblock for me. The tiny hotbox on both of them makes fighting them extremely difficult.

I wouldn't even attempt to do those matches without spirits.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

You guys want Hard? The Wol bosses without Spirits are had. The hardest of the lot I think has to be Dracula followed by Ganon. I put Dracula first because he's the only one I haven't actually beaten yet (well, I guess there's also Dhakon, but I haven't reached him because I can't beat Dracula)

Ganon was the other big roadblock for me. The tiny hotbox on both of them makes fighting them extremely difficult.

Try Fox. In the first phase his aerials hit like a truck and it's easy to evade most attacks, and in the second phase you can often hide in a corner and spam his laser.
You can reflect most of Dracula's projectiles (though not all), even the black/red balls and those do a ton of damage. The white homing lasers that Monster Dracula shoots interact weirdly with the reflector though. Sometimes they get reflected and sometimes they just hit you... Haven't quote figured that one out.
But yeah I did it with Fox. Also tried Ness and Lucas but they need to get too close and Dracula's attacks barely recharge your health if you PSI Magnet them. Went very close with Captain Falcon and Ridley but no cigar. Finally tried with Fox and he kinda cheeses him.
Only missing the final battle now, haven't started it yet because I feel like that's just not going to be doable spiritless. The boss rush at the end and the double fight are just too much I think.

Ridley's fanbase was already very big before Brawl's release.

Chronobound could probably explain it better if he was still here, but he already started to get support back with the Melee intro as it got people curious about the character. After that point Metroid had its resurgence with Fusion and Prime and he became a more recurring and important character, the manga came out which gave him more character, and with Brawl's announcement he became a frontrunner not only for Metroid, but as a whole as he was one of the big wants from the era as many thought he'd be a great addition for the series.

Of course, and I was an early adopter myself. Been wanting him, and Dark Samus for that matter, since the Prime games where they had the coolest boss fights ever, but I feel like Brawl really pushed his general support to the next level. Like, at one point he was THE fan request.
Again, not to turn this into a race, but Metroid was never as mainstream as the Rare hits in the '90s, even during the Prime era. Ridley having a very notable role in Brawl that showcased him as effectively as a Metroid game would gave him a huge boost in the broader Nintendo fandom imo... Not that I'm complaining!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think the only boss I ever fought Spiritless was Giga Bowser and I used K. Rool's counter for it since it actually hit Giga Bowser with knockback, which surprised me.

I have beaten every single Spirit battle in the game Spiritless though! Had a few on my "I never wanna do this again" list when it was finally done lol

Here's the picture I uploaded to Twitter with my final point total after finishing the final bonus set we got earlier this year

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I think the only boss I ever fought Spiritless was Giga Bowser and I used K. Rool's counter for it since it actually hit Giga Bowser with knockback, which surprised me.

I have beaten every single Spirit battle in the game Spiritless though! Had a few on my "I never wanna do this again" list when it was finally done lol

Here's the picture I uploaded to Twitter with my final point total after finishing the final bonus set we got earlier this year

I did that too! It's a crazy challenge but it's really fun, except for any fight that has strong winds. Those are atrocious.
**** the 13 Sentinels too, I really thought they would ruin my record so long after the KH spirits.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I did that too! It's a crazy challenge but it's really fun, except for any fight that has strong winds. Those are atrocious.
**** the 13 Sentinels too, I really thought they would ruin my record so long after the KH spirits.

The 13 Sentinels I had a heck of a time even figuring out how to do it, like 13 Ace level stamina opponents in less than two minutes? The only semi-consistent method I found for doing it was killing them with K. Rool propeller since it'd kill them in two or three hits every time.

The other one I remember never wanting to do again is Caeda from the Fire Emblem spirits, since it's a Legend difficulty Marth and Lucina with extreme high winds that never stop on a Battlefield form. I had to look up a strategy for that one that used Zelda and Farore's Winded everywhere until it racked up enough percent to get Final Smash, then use that off-stage so it drags both opponents off where one dies from missing recovery and the other dies because Zelda FS sent them too far offstage the other way.

I remember Baby Bowser being really rough too.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

You're talking about the Pauline spirit battle?

Those Legend spirit battles might as well be boss battles themselves.

I still get flashbacks

 

[Wonder Smash]

All this talks about spirit battles got me thinking, in my ideas for River City spirit battles, if I could I would have LOVED to give you guys a taste of my Ken spirit battle idea. All because the boss fight against him in River Girls Zero is absolutely brutal. Seriously, it's a wonder why he's not in any of the lists of the hardest SNES bosses ever. He's just that hard!

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

The 13 Sentinels I had a heck of a time even figuring out how to do it, like 13 Ace level stamina opponents in less than two minutes? The only semi-consistent method I found for doing it was killing them with K. Rool propeller since it'd kill them in two or three hits every time.

The other one I remember never wanting to do again is Caeda from the Fire Emblem spirits, since it's a Legend difficulty Marth and Lucina with extreme high winds that never stop on a Battlefield form. I had to look up a strategy for that one that used Zelda and Farore's Winded everywhere until it racked up enough percent to get Final Smash, then use that off-stage so it drags both opponents off where one dies from missing recovery and the other dies because Zelda FS sent them too far offstage the other way.

I remember Baby Bowser being really rough too.

Yep, Caeda is pure pain. Never again.
For the 13 Sentinels I've found you can win by spamming Dedede's up tilt, but I had to look that one up :/
Phantom Thieves and Hero's Comrades were also painful, but a little more "fun" than those other two? Anyways, those four and Whispy Woods complete my hall of pain's top 5, though figuring out Whispy Woods felt very satisfying!
Ah and I never beat Dr. Wily legitimately. I'd go frame by frame in the pause menu and whip out PSI Magnet every time I saw they were going to use the Mega Buster. Took me like one hour lol

I don't remember Baby Bowser very well, I think I cheesed him with Ridley like most of those fights...

 

[Arcanir]

Of course, and I was an early adopter myself. Been wanting him, and Dark Samus for that matter, since the Prime games where they had the coolest boss fights ever, but I feel like Brawl really pushed his general support to the next level. Like, at one point he was THE fan request.
Again, not to turn this into a race, but Metroid was never as mainstream as the Rare hits in the '90s, even during the Prime era. Ridley having a very notable role in Brawl that showcased him as effectively as a Metroid game would gave him a huge boost in the broader Nintendo fandom imo... Not that I'm complaining!

But that's the thing: He was already the fan request going into Brawl, at least one of them. Back then you couldn't go on any forum without fans talking about the character, whether it be GameFAQs, Smashboards, hell, even now defunct forums like IGN or other Nintendo forums. Ridley was one of the most speculated characters from pre-Brawl's era, he never relied on his appearances to be that prominent.

Additionally, you're overplaying how good the boss appearances were for Ridley. A big point often brought up against the character is that he would be better as a boss, fans had to argue time and time again that he can be playable and being a boss doesn't have to be his only identity. So once Brawl did just that, twice no less, that actually hurt discussion around him as those against the idea had a Smash game they can use as evidence for him remaining a boss.

Finally, there's a bit of subjectivity at play here. You're pushing that his boss appearances were both good, but I remember at least base Ridley's Brawl appearance being more criticized. The cutscenes are good at showing his brutality, but the actual fight was considered more lacking. His tail is only used as a swipe across the field, his fireballs are completely absent, and the cruelty and brutality that was in that cutscene almost completely disappears. Hell, some went as far as to call him a Master Hand or Dyna Blade clone because of how little felt unique to him, it was not completely well received. Meta Ridley was liked, though many hated the trophy hunt you had to do for him.

In short, you're overestimating Brawl's influence here. The character already had a strong support base going in, he had a strong history in his franchise to sell him to many skeptical of him, and his Brawl boss appearances were at best a double-edged sword for getting more attention on the character.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yep, Caeda is pure pain. Never again.
For the 13 Sentinels I've found you can win by spamming Dedede's up tilt, but I had to look that one up :/
Phantom Thieves and Hero's Comrades were also painful, but a little more "fun" than those other two? Anyways, those four and Whispy Woods complete my hall of pain's top 5, though figuring out Whispy Woods felt very satisfying!
Ah and I never beat Dr. Wily legitimately. I'd go frame by frame in the pause menu and whip out PSI Magnet every time I saw they were going to use the Mega Buster. Took me like one hour lol

I don't remember Baby Bowser very well, I think I cheesed him with Ridley like most of those fights...

For Phantom Thieves, Hero's Comrades, and I think Rauru, I used Chrom for things like that and used his Up B to spike all of the characters lol

I don't actually remember what I did for Wily but I think I might have used the same strat (being Chrom cheese) since it was multiple opponents at such a high level.

I do remember some of the Legend opponents like Ho-Oh and Omega Ridley getting cheesed by Incineroar Up B? Like I'd go near ledge, wait for them to come over, get behind them, and spike them with Up B. It got to the point that I started calling Cross Chop "The Legend Killer" lmao

Suprisingly I never really had issues with Pauline since I looked up a guide that basically was like "Hey, play Min Min, get up where Donkey Kong is near the edge of the screen, wait for Peach to go over, and back throw" lol

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

For Phantom Thieves, Hero's Comrades, and I think Rauru, I used Chrom for things like that and used his Up B to spike all of the characters lol

I don't actually remember what I did for Wily but I think I might have used the same strat (being Chrom cheese) since it was multiple opponents at such a high level.

I do remember some of the Legend opponents like Ho-Oh and Omega Ridley getting cheesed by Incineroar Up B? Like I'd go near ledge, wait for them to come over, get behind them, and spike them with Up B. It got to the point that I started calling Cross Chop "The Legend Killer" lmao

Suprisingly I never really had issues with Pauline since I looked up a guide that basically was like "Hey, play Min Min, get up where Donkey Kong is near the edge of the screen, wait for Peach to go over, and back throw" lol

Omega Ridley was fun, I think it's the first Legend I did. I just floated safely around the edges of the stage with Jigglypuff while he was getting killed by stage hazards lol.
Pauline I didn't do anything, Peach just killed herself with her up B, I got really lucky there...

I never knew Incineroar could cheese strong spirits like that. That's cool.
My usual set-up was either Ridley or Chrom for cheesy kills at the edge, Min Min for walk-offs, Zelda for strong winds and Banjo & Kazooie to slay Assist Trophies with Wonderwing. But it's cool how most characters have at least that one spirit fight that's specifically geared towards their skill set, you feel super smart once you figure it out.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Omega Ridley was fun, I think it's the first Legend I did. I just floated safely around the edges of the stage with Jigglypuff while he was getting killed by stage hazards lol.
Pauline I didn't do anything, Peach just killed herself with her up B, I got really lucky there...

I never knew Incineroar could cheese strong spirits like that. That's cool.
My usual set-up was either Ridley or Chrom for cheesy kills at the edge, Min Min for walk-offs, Zelda for strong winds and Banjo & Kazooie to slay Assist Trophies with Wonderwing. But it's cool how most characters have at least that one spirit fight that's specifically geared towards their skill set, you feel super smart once you figure it out.

I think for Omega Ridley specifically it was really funny because I hit him off the top platform with one Cross Chop since I'm pretty sure that fight is on Norfair, and since the Ridley was metal and everything, he bounced off of the rising lava like four times while falling through it and died shortly after lol

I think for strong winds I usually used Donkey Kong Up B since the grounded one can push through wind, though I remember fighting Kapp'n by using Charizard Flare Blitz lol

 

[fogbadge]

Only because Teba was definitely given the short end of the stick. The littlest amount of descendent interaction with Link out of the 4 descendants, than his son takes over for him in TotK. The only time he got more screentime and character development to be more a main character was Age of Calamity. Also helps that he was regarded as one of the best characters gameplay-wise in AoC

calling the 4 of them descendants always seemed odd to me. after all only two of them are descendants and even then only one is confirmed to be within botw

 

[Perkilator]

I imagine they didn't do Metal Face in this game in part because they chose Galleom as the SSB callback boss, and the two kinda overlap in terms of appeal (I.E. giant feral robots).

Galleom and Metal Face have completely different attacks and fighting styles in their home games, so I don’t think they’d overlap that much.

 

[Oracle Link]

as we're on zelda i'd like to remind everyone about linkle

NO!
Just NO!
Lana or Cia are already be bad enough but linkle? The genderbent Link and Tingle hybrid!
NOOOOO!
We already have two slots for Link himself at minimum! Unless you are suggesting we cut Toon Link for her? Not a great plan!
I think Hyrule Warriors representation is best as just moveset inspiration!
There are so many charcters/ Designs from normal zelda that i dont think we should use the game were every girl character gets a More Skin Showing redesign?

Im fine with AOC Impa as shes atleast a version of a canon Impa! But Linkle? Nah i don't think we have to dig that low!

BTW i thought about something Characters like marx or Linkle have the issue while some won't them others (justifiably) have issues with their Inclusion so focusing on Characters that make everyone happy is ideal!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

We already have two slots for Link himself at minimum! Unless you are suggesting we cut Toon Link for her? Not a great plan!

This is Young Link erasure

Also, at this point, Zelda gets so little character-wise that I'd be fine with anything at this point.

 

[Oracle Link]

This is Young Link erasure

True Young link is cool too!
Toon link is just sadly the better choice!
And believe me if i was biased i would make LAR Link the small smash link!
But toon link is in like 10 games!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Linkle isn't genderbent Link. That was the intention at one point, but she's a completely different person who thinks she's Link. Part of her character development is learning she's not the chosen one, but still a really neat person.

She's just one of the many characters who didn't debut in the normal Zelda games(same with many of Tingle's various characters in his game, or some of the CD-i Zelda characters). So she simply isn't part of the normal canon, that's all.

IMO, Young Link and Toon Link are both amazing characters. They bring different things to the table. One simply isn't "more important". They both have different merits. Ultimately, there's no way to tell which one would take priority. This is the first time they were in a game together. It could also be the last. That said, they're both pretty easy to return, and due to tons of Virtual Console-type rereleases, both will always have something relevant. Though the Toon games aren't nearly as active as the regular topdown games lately(there's more of the latter via the rereleases). That also said, we haven't had a topdown Zelda game in a while now(with the closest one being Link's Awakening(Switch), which isn't either design, but akin to kind of combining them both in a different type of cartoony style). So not even relevancy is a good deciding factor either. Popularity is hard to say too. Regular Link will always be there(usually updated to one of the latest games, depending if they can work it in. TOTK is the next plausible update, but then again, something else could be out before then. But until anything is announced, there's really no other option for us to speculate, you know? XD).