Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[osby]

The one positive thing I can say about Camilla is that she was voiced by Lulu’s voice actress in Fates. Lulu’s one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters so it was cool to hear her again in something. Too bad Fire Emblem Warriors made almost every character’s voice worse for the ones with new actors.

I honestly like Camilla a lot. The game doesn't delve into some of her more interesting traits nearly enough but it's nice how she grew up among this super messed up court drama so she's so protective of her siblings.

Also, big woman who goes crazy murder mode on the battlefield with her huge axe is fun.

 

[fogbadge]

The one positive thing I can say about Camilla is that she was voiced by Lulu’s voice actress in Fates. Lulu’s one of my favorite Final Fantasy characters so it was cool to hear her again in something. Too bad Fire Emblem Warriors made almost every character’s voice worse for the ones with new actors.

really

 

[Louie G.]

Why is Corrin seen as expendable?

It's by proxy. Everyone in the game is "fun to play" and has their fans. Most characters bring something fresh to the table - Corrin is an exercise in how any character can still be interesting, even if their addition is controversial. I do like their moveset.

But compared to everyone else from Fire Emblem, they fall a little short. They aren't as important as Marth. They aren't as popular as Ike. They aren't as fresh as Byleth, and Fates' success was dethroned handily by Three Houses. And it's clear Smash holds Awakening in high regard - all three of its protagonists are playable. Robin will likely stick around, and he's probably the most archetypically diverse member of the gang as a mage w resource management.

Maybe they survive over Roy? But it's not the most productive comparison - Roy obviously requires less work, being more derivative of Marth. And he's arguably more popular within Smash, so even in this instance that legacy and ease of development may trump Corrin's general indifference. I think both of these guys are in trouble though - one of the reasons cutting Corrin seems like such a no brainer is that Fire Emblem WILL, undoubtedly, lose at least one non-echo character. For the same reasons as Pokemon, and maybe Mario. Naturally the series with the most characters start getting pruned before those with only one or two.

 

[Gengar84]

really

Really

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[Ivander]

I do think that people underestimate just how negative Byleth's initial reception was.

Yeah, it was immature and Byleth's addition has aged like fine wine. But that backlash was massive. Sakurai anticipated some backlash and the backlash happened in a way that Nintendo does pay attention to. YouTube likes and Twitter.

I think they may learn the wrong lesson and that Byleth was the problem and not the large amount of FE characters. I don't think he's as likely as people think.

Let's be honest. Some of that reception was definitely because Capcom had the bright idea to advertise the Switch versions of Devil May Cry and hint at DMC stuff the day before Byleth happened.

• Camilla: "Lets take Tharja and make her a dominatrix. That'll be popular! What? The avatar's her sibling? Eh, it's probably fine."

You say this like this type of thing doesn't happen to every Yandere-like/Obssessed character. Even Tharja has some of that dominatrix issue to her with how controlling she tries to be sometimes. Heck, some of Tharja's supports imply she outright manipulates a couple of the cast to do some tasks for her. So no, it's not "Let's take Tharja and make her more dominant.", it's more "Let's take Tharja and make them a sibling figure."

Oh yeah her. I was sitting there thinking "There's gotta be another one. who was that?" lol

Now that I've remembered her, I think I know why I forgot her: IIRC her entire personality was wanting to get stronger to defend Hoshido.

Actually she was originally training to get Corrin back after they got kidnapped by Nohr. It only changed slightly once Corrin came back to Hoshido.

And yeah, gameplay-wise, Fates was good. Story-wise, that's going down a rabbit hole nobody wants to go through. And quite honestly, Corrin wasn't the main issue in Fates. If anything, the siblings portrayal was the main issue and they had it far worse, especially the brothers, who are practically forced to go out of character for the sake of conflict and plot. There's a reason you have the brothers pretty much separated into "Support version" and "Story version".

 

[fogbadge]

Really

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well I’m never gonna look at lulu the same way

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

well sure he seems like the only one with any brains when you’re that early and you’ve only met the kids and the dumb best friend

I guess I was further in than I thought. I've also watched them meet pretty princess lady and her entourage.

Actually she was originally training to get Corrin back after they got kidnapped by Nohr. It only changed slightly once Corrin came back to Hoshido.

That makes sense. It also adds a bit of depth to her that unfortunately didn't quite translate to the spin-off.

 

[Arcanir]

Corrins' biggest problem is that they're in a franchise with a lot of characters, which historically are the ones that get the most cuts (look at Pokemon or Mario), and don't have the best case over their counterparts to get higher priority.

-Marth is the mascot, he isn't going anywhere.
-Ike is the most popular lord period, to the point that if you combined his split votes in CYL1 he was the most popular character period at the time over Lyn.
-Robin hails from a milestone of a game that saved the franchise.
-Byleth hails from its most successful and most popular entry.

Corrin struggles to compare, Fates is successful, but of the modern trio of Awakening, Fates, and TH there's no denying that Awakening and TH left a more positive mark in terms of their success and reception. FCorrin is popular (MCorrin isn't for a lord, but for... questionable reasons), but going by CYL results she loses out to most Smash reps (only FRobin and MByleth haven't won a CYL ahead of her). Even Roy, who is brought up as a counterpoint for their case, is still more popular as he was second on the first CYL while FCorrin didn't win until its seventh run.

Corrin does get a lot of bile for their reveal and it does color how people look at them in terms of Smash, but it also is true that looking at their franchise as a whole they have a weaker hand to work with then the others. Of the six non-Echoes, at least four stand out in stronger regards when compared to them due to their history, success, and/popularity within the franchise, and the last one can have a case made over them as well. If they were in a franchise with less characters they could have a better chance to stay, but if cuts do happen and they have to trim down Corrin is a potential mark due to having a weaker case over the others.

 

[Ivander]

That makes sense. It also adds a bit of depth to her that unfortunately didn't quite translate to the spin-off.

That's kinda the issue with the spin-offs. To some degree, some of the details and characteristics from their main games never appear in the spin-offs. Like Fire Emblem Heroes never once brings up Camilla's background regarding her mother, her treatment as a child and whatnot in any of her variations.

 

[Louie G.]

Let's be honest. Some of that reception was definitely because Capcom had the bright idea to advertise the Switch versions of Devil May Cry and hint at DMC stuff the day before Byleth happened.

The mass delusion that they were hinting at Dante was ridiculous, but I can't imagine Byleth would have went over that much better if they hadn't. The malign toward Fire Emblem characters started with Corrin and people had already been fearmongering Byleth before they were properly revealed. Everyone had their guard down from the previous four third party characters, and most people did not believe they would end the pass on a Nintendo character. It was a mix of that pre-existing stigma and the growing neglect of first parties amongst a pass built on exciting crossovers.

The Dante thing certainly didn't help, but if it wasn't Dante it would have been somebody else. Byleth was the easiest scapegoat in the world.

Well, aside from Corrin.

 

[Gengar84]

well I’m never gonna look at lulu the same way

I’m sorry, I just ruined both Lulu and Dunban for you in the span of a couple of weeks. Just because I don’t care for Camilla, that doesn’t affect my opinion on Lulu. They’re two completely different characters and I think it’s reasonable that I’m not going to like every character a particular actor or actress plays.

To be fair to Camilla, I’ve only beaten Hoshido’s path. I watched ShadyPenguinn play a good amount of Nohr but he never finished it. Maybe I’d like her more if I saw more of that character depth. From what I’ve seen, she’s kind of one-note. I did also play Fire Emblem Warriors but I don’t think that game handled character portrayals very well in general.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My favorite thing about Corrin is that Corrin is a Kiren. The character named Kiran is not.

 

[Noipoi]

There’s 27 Fire Emblem characters and if there are cuts next time at least one of them has to go. Not counting Echoes, Corrin’s at the bottom of the totem pole. So if anyone’s out it’s probably them.

Simple as.

 

[osby]

This thread predicting that Corrin is the likeliest Fire Emblem cut?

 

[Opossum]

This thread predicting that Corrin is the likeliest Fire Emblem cut?

View attachment 389302

I mean...literally who else would be? Nobody could reasonably sit here and argue that it'd be Ike or Marth.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This thread predicting that Corrin is the likeliest Fire Emblem cut?

It was more like:
"Hey why does everyone think Corrin's getting cut? They've got stuff going for them that you're just ignoring."
"Yeah but it doesn't really compare to what everyone else has going for them."

 

[osby]

I mean...literally who else would be? Nobody could reasonably sit here and argue that it'd be Ike or Marth.

I'm not saying they are wrong.

But people have been repeating the exact same thing for the past eight years with a brief pause for Ultimate's release and I think I got it by now. It's like saying you think Mario is likely for the next game at this point. There are like 80 characters in this game, we can talk about other things.

 

[cashregister9]

This thread predicting that Corrin is the likeliest Fire Emblem cut?

View attachment 389302

Next thing you are going to tell me is that this thread thinks Incineroar and Pichu are gonna be cut too?

 

[Ivander]

This thread predicting that Corrin is the likeliest Fire Emblem cut?

View attachment 389302

I've said it before. Some people have gotten so invested into Corrin getting cut that if they do not get cut, those people will have a destructive fit over them not getting cut. Some people need to chill. Although I know they won't if somehow, Fire Emblem gets no cuts and a new character.

 

[osby]

Next thing you are going to tell me is that this thread thinks Incineroar and Pichu are gonna be cut too?

Anti Elite Four of Smashboards.

 

[fogbadge]

I guess I was further in than I thought. I've also watched them meet pretty princess lady and her entourage.


That makes sense. It also adds a bit of depth to her that unfortunately didn't quite translate to the spin-off.

I assume you mean the first princess you meet

I’m sorry, I just ruined both Lulu and Dunban for you in the span of a couple of weeks. Just because I don’t care for Camilla, that doesn’t affect my opinion on Lulu. They’re two completely different characters and I think it’s reasonable that I’m not going to like every character a particular actor or actress plays.

To be fair to Camilla, I’ve only beaten Hoshido’s path. I watched ShadyPenguinn play a good amount of Nohr but he never finished it. Maybe I’d like her more if I saw more of that character depth. From what I’ve seen, she’s kind of one-note. I did also play Fire Emblem Warriors but I don’t think that game handled character portrayals very well in general.

I wouldn’t worry about it, I’ll forget soon. I’d already forgotten about dunban

 

[HyperSomari64]

I said this before on The Social Thread, but i want to recall it. (even if this may count as Spam)

Remember Nintendo's Annual Reports?
Well, they have invested the following companies:
1. Bandai Namco
2. Konami
3. Square Enix
4. Koei Tecmo
5. Kadokawa (They own Dwango, which itself has FromSoftware, Spike Chunsoft and the guys behind RPG Maker)

This means the next things:

• Konami and Square possibly won't be cut, despite weird people trying to fearmonger.
• Namco would still co-develop the next SSB game.
• Tecmo getting major representation (Ryu Hayabusa, Warriors rep.)
• While FromSoft and Spike Chunsoft have some chances, i'm scared of an ugly future where the new Smash Bros. has Gamera and some anime dudes from the light novel line, Dengeki Bunko.

Yeah, this may sound stupid, but these are the things i wanted to say.

 

[Laniv]

Me, who would probably end up replacing Corrin with Tiki if I had the chance, despite the fact that this would result in technically four Awakening characters:

 

[Hadokeyblade]

From my time playing Fire Emblem Warriors, these are my impressions of the characters:

• Corrin: Hates violence and is humorously polite even while fighting.
• Xander: Soft spoken and polite, but will do anything to protect his friends/kingdom.
• Leo: A dork who tries to act all serious and mostly succeeds.
• Eliese: Her entire character is being a small child.
• Camilla: "Lets take Tharja and make her a dominatrix. That'll be popular! What? The avatar's her sibling? Eh, it's probably fine."
• Ryoma: Boring.
• Takumi: Angstey teen.
• What's her face: The "shy to the point of having 0 self confidence" trope.

Overall, they are extremely tropey, and very few of them appeal to me, likely due to the tropes usually being there to be funny, and it's just not funny to me.

The funny part is i remember them being better written in warriors than they are in their own game.

BTW when it comes to fire emblem it seems the disliked games are the ones that got the worst Localization!
Like Fates and Engage got some really terrible ones!

Granted TOTK also has a bad english localization but its still not hated!
It would be cool to see a Literal English option for the next game were all names get changed back to their Original Japanese ones!
I mean i think having King Koopa and others as options while keeping the text understandable would be cool!

For once you post something that makes sense to me lmao.

I agree.

 

[Louie G.]

Remember Nintendo's Annual Reports?
Well, they have invested the following companies:
1. Bandai Namco
2. Konami
3. Square Enix
4. Koei Tecmo
5. Kadokawa (They own Dwango, which itself has FromSoftware, Spike Chunsoft and the guys behind RPG Maker)

This actually is pretty interesting info. Even if it simply validates some things we already know - like how Koei Tecmo is the most glaring third party absence from the roster - it's neat to have some insight on which companies Nintendo is especially (and literally) invested in. Apparently Nintendo is Koei Tecmo's largest investor at 8.2%. The Dwango related stuff is probably the most eyecatching information here.

It does further emphasize why I have little worry about Konami returning next game. Snake and Simon both got to join without a DLC upsell later, and the Castlevania content handed out was especially generous. If they're still deemed an important partner for the company I see no reason why at least one of their characters won't come back from the beginning. Square Enix is more complicated but I'm sure we'll get somebody back.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Anti Elite Four of Smashboards.

I'm sure at least one of these is going to stick around.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm sure at least one of these is going to stick around.

I sincerely hope you’re right, I’ve said it a million times but I want nothing more than for Incineroar to become a Smash mainstay. If I could lock in all of Ultimate’s unique base game newcomers for next game I’d do it in a heartbeat.

I do think he has the best shot of coming back out of this batch of usual suspects, I suppose. His playstyle is fresh and unique within Smash and there are technically other areas Pokemon could be pruned down that seem at least possible - if we lost Squirtle and Ivysaur again, maybe Incineroar would feel safer. If Pokemon Trainer is kept in tact, I think he’s probably in trouble. But losing any more than three characters per series may feel like overkill unless it’s a full-on Thanos snap.

I’d personally keep him over Charizard and Lucario too, but that’s just me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So as far as what we know I think it's that:

Super Smash Bros. Brawl explicitly cut 2 characters: Young Link, who was being replaced with Toon Link, and Pichu, who might have been replaced with Plusle and Minun. After that they were planning on adding Roy, Dr. Mario, and Mewtwo, but they weren't high enough of a priority and time grew short. Strangely, Jigglypuf was going to be cut, but was added in at the last possible moment.

Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U is less documented, but we do know that the Ice Climbers would have been in if it weren't for hardware limitations, and it's implied that Pokémon Trainer, and thus, Squirtle and Ivysaur would have made the cut as well, though if/how the roster would have been restructured to accommodate them is unknown. We don't know anything about the absence of Lucas, Wolf, Roy, or Pichu, with the only reasonable guess being "priorities". The only one we do know wasn't given the green light from the get go is Snake, since Konami was never approached about it. Lucas and Roy would later be DLC.

That in mind, my guess is that generally, they want to keep as many characters as possible. Failing that, derivative characters seem to be on the chopping block first, as the non-clone cuts are Mewtwo (who they were trying to add), Squirtle, Ivysaur, and the Ice Climbers (who they couldn't add), and Snake. Even then though, Young Link and potentially Pichu are special cases, Roy and Dr. Mario made the planned roster for their would be second appearances, and Wolf and Lucas have no data.

So really, it seems like I've once again used a lot of words to say "I don't know nuthin'." Especially when there's likely going to be enough required cuts that they'd have to plan more cuts than they ever have, which is going to change their behaviour, at least a little.

 

[Noipoi]

My only hope for Incineroar is that Sakurai said he wanted to do a wrestler moveset and they clearly had a lot of fun making him, so maybe they wouldn’t want to get rid of that so fast.

I know it’s cope but it’s all I have.

 

[Will]

Here’s my hot take on “low priority”:

I love her basic attack gimmick, but good grief can we please tone down meditation if she somehow survives the transition to next Smash?

 

[Shinuto]

Here’s my hot take on “low priority”:

View attachment 389303

I love her basic attack gimmick, but good grief can we please tone down meditation if she somehow survives the transition to next Smash?

Hell no

 

[Will]

Hell no

That’s it, she’s gotta go. /s

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The funny part is i remember them being better written in warriors than they are in their own game.

That's a pretty consistent thing for the Fates cast.

Another funny one is how Camilla will generally look better in anything but her default outfit. Obviously there are exceptions (seriously, whoever drew the Hot Springs alt messed up so hard) but not enough for me to say that Fates design didn't went too hard on making her a fanservice lady.

 

[osby]

Here’s my hot take on “low priority”:

View attachment 389303

I love her basic attack gimmick, but good grief can we please tone down meditation if she somehow survives the transition to next Smash?

Sounds like someone needs to get a good stretch.

 

[Will]

Sounds like someone needs to get a good stretch.

You ain’t stretching **** you’re going to the edge of Final Destination and doing soccer ball cancels.

 

[osby]

You ain’t stretching **** you’re going to the edge of Final Destination and doing soccer ball cancels.

And what are you planning to do about that?

 

[Gengar84]

I’m hopeful that we can get both Ryu Hyabusa and Lu Bu in the next Smash. Koei and Nintendo have a really strong relationship and there are currently no Koei characters in Smash. Other companies have gotten multiple characters in one game so I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Both Hyabusa and Lu Bu have valid reasons for making it in. Ninja Gaiden was an iconic NES series with a successful X-Box reboot and Hyabusa can also count towards DoA representation. Meanwhile, Dynasty Warriors kicked off the whole Musou genre and have had countless games through multiple forms. Just going by properties already in Smash, there have been Warriors games for Zelda, Fire Emblem, Persona, and Dragon Quest.

 

[Will]

View attachment 389304

And what are you planning to do about that?

The only thing I can do.

 

[osby]

View attachment 389305

The only thing I can do.

Next Smash should make it so that Deep Breathing allows projectiles to go through reflectors.

 

[Will]

Next Smash should make it so that Deep Breathing allows projectiles to go through reflectors.

Then I pray my walking shield projectile nullification will work (it will not) (the ball will bounce and hit my head) (you are immediately using deep breathing a 2nd time after) (im cooked)