Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Sure.

Fair enough.

Now find an example from every other fighting game series since apparently all of them do that even today. :V

 

[Momotsuki]

Fair enough.

Now find an example from every other fighting game series since apparently all of them do that even today. :V

I will concede that "every" was hyperbole, if we must play silly semantics that hard. My point is that it's not some wild unheard-of practice. Not even that it's necessary for Smash (it isn't,) mind you, just something that's on the table. Or at least was at some point, depending on the current state of Smash 6 development which we know nothing about - that it's ongoing at all is just a rumor, after all.

I also feel compelled to note that when talk of an Ultimate re-release comes up it's usually framed within the arguments about cuts and, more generally speaking, the roster. Putting aside my initial quip, The reason I would be interested in an Ultimate re-release is not related to the roster, but to everything else. Things that had to be sacrificed and skimped out on for the roster's sake during Ultimate's initial development. Modes, features, things like that. It would also be a great opportunity for engine tweaks and some more out-there balance adjustments that would be a bit too much to just drop on the existing game. Y'know, the one they abandoned and left to be terrorized by the block man.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd personally like the next game to be a non-live service new game.
But i'm fully aware a Deluxe port, Ultimate Turbo 2027 edition or a Live-Service Smash game are on the table and just as possible (and valid) than what i'd like the next Smash to be.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Fair enough.

Now find an example from every other fighting game series since apparently all of them do that even today. :V

Marvel vs Capcom has done it.

Tekken has done it.

Killer Instinct has done it.

King of Fighters has done it.

Heck, even Pokemon has done it.

It really is super common in the industry.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Also Mortal Kombat, Persona 4 Arena, even Dragon Ball Z Budokai. Happens all the time with all kinds of fighting games.

 

[RileyXY1]

And that’s why I don’t want Smash to go live service.

Not to mention the track record of recent live services.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I will concede that "every" was hyperbole, if we must play silly semantics that hard. My point is that it's not some wild unheard-of practice. Not even that it's necessary for Smash (it isn't,) mind you, just something that's on the table. Or at least was at some point, depending on the current state of Smash 6 development which we know nothing about - that it's ongoing at all is just a rumor, after all.

I also feel compelled to note that when talk of an Ultimate re-release comes up it's usually framed within the arguments about cuts and, more generally speaking, the roster. Putting aside my initial quip, The reason I would be interested in an Ultimate re-release is not related to the roster, but to everything else. Things that had to be sacrificed and skimped out on for the roster's sake during Ultimate's initial development. Modes, features, things like that. It would also be a great opportunity for engine tweaks and some more out-there balance adjustments that would be a bit too much to just drop on the existing game. Y'know, the one they abandoned and left to be terrorized by the block man.

Just to point out? Every is not semantics. It's a full claim. It's understandable you were being hyperbolic and all, but keep in mind people are going to actually respond to what you say. So if you want to prevent confusion, just say what you mean

-------------

That said, in my opinion, Smash shouldn't be treated like that because it has the philosophy of not outright changing characters in order to keep its playerbase happy. Veteran players can adjust much easier as long as the change isn't too drastic(Ganondorf is perhaps the biggest one going into Brawl, but he was still very easy to adjust to for some. Not all will be this way, but some will). Keeping their core ultimately works better in this context.

That said, it's worth noting it's not always praised either when it happens. It's a common trend, but it'll always be mixed.

 

[HyperSomari64]

King of Fighters has done it.

Tell me if there will be a bootleg version of SSBU and subtitle it Couching Trigger Hiddren Dagon Magilou Plus.
(The typos where intentional)

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Marvel vs Capcom has done it.

Tekken has done it.

Killer Instinct has done it.

King of Fighters has done it.

Heck, even Pokemon has done it.

It really is super common in the industry.

But has DreamMix TV World Fighters? I don't think so. :V

....come to think of it I don't think any platform fighter has.

EDIT: Wait no, Punch Time Explosion did.

 

[fogbadge]

I'd personally like the next game to be a non-live service new game.
But i'm fully aware a Deluxe port, Ultimate Turbo 2027 edition or a Live-Service Smash game are on the table and just as possible (and valid) than what i'd like the next Smash to be.

i'd quite like live service games to go away all together

 

[CannonStreak]

How does a live service game work, anyway, if I may ask?

 

[HyperSomari64]

EDIT: Wait no, Punch Time Explosion did.

I'm still sad to this day that it never got Ed, Edd 'n Eddy, Courage, Cow and Chicken, Mega XLR, Lazlo, The Time Squad, Juniper Lee, Zak Saturday, Robot Jones, Generator Rex, nor any show from the check-it era (just the training stage based on that branding)

 

[Golden Icarus]

We’ve sort of moved past it, but I wanna give a few thoughts on Sheik/Impa.

Getting Impa as a unique character on top of Sheik would be great. Having Impa as an echo/semi-clone of Sheik would be fine. And having Impa as a brand new unique newcomer, while removing Sheik would also be okay. It gives Impa her own chance to shine, while also leaving the door open for Sheik to return in the future.

The only option that I hate is removing Sheik just for Impa to jump in and steal her moveset. That is an actual **** you to Sheik and undermines both characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How does a live service game work, anyway, if I may ask?

Essentially the game is designed to give the player constant content in exchange for constant money.

You're technically getting new things, and oftentimes they're worthwhile, but if you want to get everything, you'd have to be paying money frequently.

They are designed to nickel and dime consumers and are often seen as predatory.

 

[Gorgonzales]

This is a concept for a future Smash that I really enjoy -

He's deleted a lot of his older videos, but he's been making Smash speculation content ever since 2010. I've always felt he has a good sense of what Smash is all about and what could appeal to the broader fanbase. I think this roster demonstrates how you can make something totally different from Ultimate, while still being able to work as a successor. It's probably a bit unrealistic with the quantity of newcomers and I definitely don't agree with a lot of the choices, but it's the overall direction I'd want to see for the next game and if this exact roster were to happen, then I'd be more than satisfied.

Other than the suggestion of making every Olimar alt a different captain (which I'm now pretty sure shortens my lifespan by a day every time it's brought up), I can dig this roster. I liked the quick presentation style, and I could get behind a lot of these picks like Lip, Tinkaton, Kamek, and Raven Beak.

 

[CannonStreak]

We’ve sort of moved past it, but I wanna give a few thoughts on Sheik/Impa.

Getting Impa as a unique character on top of Sheik would be great. Having Impa as an echo/semi-clone of Sheik would be fine. And having Impa as a brand new unique newcomer, while removing Sheik would also be okay. It gives Impa her own chance to shine, while also leaving the door open for Sheik to return in the future.

The only option that I hate is removing Sheik just for Impa to jump in and steal her moveset. That is an actual **** you to Sheik and undermines both characters.

If I may, now that you mention this, I wan to give my thoughts as well...

Someone said that Impa should have her own moveset, as she had original moves in games like the Hyrule Warriors games. However, Dark Samus had her own moves she could have used for her moveset, and she is an echo of Samus. So is Richter from Castlevania, and from what I heard from the Direct that introduced him, he had more original moves than Simon, but Richter is an echo of Simon, nonetheless. Maybe Ken has some original moves, too? (It has been a while since I played Street FIghter) And I am sure there are others as well.

My point is, even when a character has many original moves from different games, they can still be an echo or a clone of someone else. I do think Impa is no exception, and I do think there is a chance she could be an echo or clone of someone like Shiek more easily if Sakurai wanted to add Impa to the Smash Bros. games.

 

[fogbadge]

Essentially the game is designed to give the player constant content in exchange for constant money.

You're technically getting new things, and oftentimes they're worthwhile, but if you want to get everything, you'd have to be paying money frequently.

They are designed to nickel and dime consumers and are often seen as predatory.

it certainly is one of the more loathsome aspects of modern gaming

 

[Swamp Sensei]

it certainly is one of the more loathsome aspects of modern gaming

Like DLC, it really depends on how it's used.

I'm into some live service games that are incredibly fun and I enjoy. But not every game is monetized ethically or reasonably.

It also hurts that it can prey on those with certain predispositions.

 

[CannonStreak]

Essentially the game is designed to give the player constant content in exchange for constant money.

You're technically getting new things, and oftentimes they're worthwhile, but if you want to get everything, you'd have to be paying money frequently.

They are designed to nickel and dime consumers and are often seen as predatory.

Oh, I se-...OH OH! That's not right!

I asked because Sega is said to be making a new Jet Set Radio and Crazy Taxi live service games. No surprise about Sega doing this, but it still sounds scummy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh, I se-...OH OH! That's not right!

I asked because Sega is said to be making a new Jet Set Radio and Crazy Taxi live service games. No surprise about Sega doing this, but it still sounds scummy.

Can we have a source?

Because I could kind of see how Crazy Taxi could become one. I'm stumped at home JSR could become one.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Like DLC, it really depends on how it's used.

I'm into some live service games that are incredibly fun and I enjoy. But not every game is monetized ethically or reasonably.

It also hurts that it can prey on those with certain predispositions.

It helps when live services only make you pay for skins and give you everything else for free. But...I don't think Smash can go that route.

 

[CannonStreak]

Can we have a source?

Because I could kind of see how Crazy Taxi could become one. I'm stumped at home JSR could become one.

Oh, okay.

SEGA’s Super Game may include Crazy Taxi or Jet Set Radio live service games

SEGA has talked a little more about its so-called Super Game, which is set to make its debut in 2026. Many have been wondering what exactly a Super Game is, and it seems it’s a fancy word for a high…

mynintendonews.com

Sega's New Crazy Taxi Is Reportedly Live Service, Inspired By Fortnite

Sega's new Crazy Taxi is reportedly modeled after games like Fortnite, with plans for live events, collaborations and more.

www.thegamer.com

How are these?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Can we have a source?

Because I could kind of see how Crazy Taxi could become one. I'm stumped at home JSR could become one.

(Sorry, i have to say it)

Edit: I'm too late

 

[fogbadge]

Like DLC, it really depends on how it's used.

I'm into some live service games that are incredibly fun and I enjoy. But not every game is monetized ethically or reasonably.

It also hurts that it can prey on those with certain predispositions.

then you’ve been more fortunate than I. my experiences with it have turned me against it completely

 

[Pupp135]

Re: General SSB6 Roster expectations and hopes

I expect there to probably be between 55 and 65 base fighters before echoes.

I think there will be about 2 or 3 third party newcomers base game.

Fire Emblem Engage and Xenoblade 3 probably miss the boat, and newcomers for these series will hinge on timing of their releases and SSB6’s development cycles.

Re: Black Shadow and Impa

While I’m fine with the ideas of a decloned Ganondorf and Black Shadow, I don’t like how this suggestion is usually just a means to declone Ganondorf and nothing else. Personally, I’d prefer adding a second Ganondorf who plays differently from the current one if we’re trying to have both the old moveset and a revamped one.

Regarding Impa, I don’t like the idea of having her being a direct replacement to Sheik as it seems like it’s used to fulfill arbitrary agendas, and I’d prefer to have her added as something distinct from Sheik or as a Sheik echo.

 

[Momotsuki]

Just to point out? Every is not semantics. It's a full claim. It's understandable you were being hyperbolic and all, but keep in mind people are going to actually respond to what you say. So if you want to prevent confusion, just say what you mean

Reading over my words again I think I agree. I will be more mindful next time. Thank you.

 

[Ivander]

It helps when live services only make you pay for skins and give you everything else for free. But...I don't think Smash can go that route.

looks at all the costumes that the Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Street Fighter, Splatoon and Mii characters can get, as well as Samus, Shulk, Joker, Cloud, Bayonetta, Hero, Terry, Kazuya and Sora
some of the other characters not mentioned also have additional outfits from their own games, but nowhere near as many as the aforementioned

It certainly could. Unfortunately, Fighting Games and DLC Fighters are a combination not going away anytime soon. That's really the issue. It's the fact that companies who do fighting games know that most people will pay for DLC characters and Smash Bros is no exception, especially with how much both Fighters' Passes sold.

 

[Momotsuki]

I don't mind paid DLC when the base game justifies its own price tag; if I feel I've already gotten my money's worth then I'll gladly pay for more. The main thing is that it has to feel like extra content, and not like withheld content, if that makes sense. Live service blurs this line to an extent I find very uncomfortable.


That, and an inevitable - if perhaps distant - server shutdown won't just tank the online modes, but the entire thing, at least if I understand live-service games correctly (feel free to correct me if I do not.)

Which is, like, y'know, really bad? Having to "check in" with some server to get permission to play my seventy-dollar purchase each and every time, only to have that permission permanently revoked upon a server shutdown - even if that's not anytime soon - is frankly dystopian and I really do not like the idea of it.

 

[Speed Weed]

Can we have a source?

Because I could kind of see how Crazy Taxi could become one. I'm stumped at home JSR could become one.

Rumor mill's been that way for almost as long as these revivals have been rumoured themselves, and plenty of internal SEGA info (job listings, company reports, etc) has pointed to this being the case, with their so-called "Super Game" intitiative going hand-in-hand with the IP revivals. Reliable leakers have corroborated this as well.

And, well.....yeah I'm not a huge fan. One of the big reasons I've felt somewhat wary with the series revivals is from all the info and circumstances we've had so far, I'm getting the vibe that they're trying really hard to court the Western triple A market with these, and I worry that these revivals are going to end up feeling really corporate and with a lot of the edges and interesting influences of the original games sanded off to appeal more to modern mainstream gaming sensibilities. I'm not sure what's the audience for these revivals because it seems like they're trying to appeal to both old SEGA fans as well as the Fortnite crowd, influencers, etc, but these two audiences feel almost diametrically opposed and I feel like if you try to appeal to the latter you're almost invariably going to alienate the former - which I think is kind of a problem when the former are the people who wanted these games back to begin with. I just don't get it.

 

[Golden Icarus]

I don't mind paid DLC when the base game justifies its own price tag; if I feel I've gotten my money's worth already then I'll gladly pay for more. The main thing is that it has to feel like extra content, and not like withheld content, if that makes sense. Live service blurs this line to an extent I find very uncomfortable.


That, and an inevitable - if perhaps distant - server shutdown won't just tank the online modes, but the entire thing, at least if I understand live-service games correctly (feel free to correct me if I do not.)

Which is, like, y'know, really bad? Having to "check in" with some server to get permission to play my seventy-dollar purchase each and every time, only to have that permission permanently revoked upon a server shutdown - even if that's not anytime soon - is frankly dystopian and I really do not like the idea of it.

This describes the last two Mortal Kombat games to a T.

You literally can’t access the majority of single player features without connecting to the server, which apparently is shut down for maintenance every ****ing time I try to login.

Also the developers of MK1 directly stated that there would be 24 characters at launch, only for there to be 22 + a pre-order bonus (which is $7.99 if you didn’t pre-order). The two characters that were obviously planned for the base roster both have major roles in the story and multiple in-game fights. They just chose not to finish them and instead held them back for DLC.

I love Mortal Kombat, but I really hate Mortal Kombat.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Rumor mill's been that way for almost as long as these revivals have been rumoured themselves, and plenty of internal SEGA info (job listings, company reports, etc) has pointed to this being the case, with their so-called "Super Game" intitiative going hand-in-hand with the IP revivals. Reliable leakers have corroborated this as well.

And, well.....yeah I'm not a huge fan. One of the big reasons I've felt somewhat wary with the series revivals is from all the info and circumstances we've had so far, I'm getting the vibe that they're trying really hard to court the Western triple A market with these, and I worry that these revivals are going to end up feeling really corporate and with a lot of the edges and interesting influences of the original games sanded off to appeal more to modern mainstream gaming sensibilities. I'm not sure what's the audience for these revivals because it seems like they're trying to appeal to both old SEGA fans as well as the Fortnite crowd, influencers, etc, but these two audiences feel almost diametrically opposed and I feel like if you try to appeal to the latter you're almost invariably going to alienate the former - which I think is kind of a problem when the former are the people who wanted these games back to begin with. I just don't get it.

It's a weird thing too because with certain Sega series they're very arcade like and that's both why they're good (because Sega is so experienced and skilled with arcade titles) and why some of them lost prominence when much of gaming in the West shifted towards loads of content as opposed to shorter games with great replay value. Very good development and careful execution can give such games a longer life (see the excellent modes/features in Streets of Rage 4), but even that was never trying to win over the AAA gaming market and knew the specific audience it was going for. Jet Set Radio feels like something that could easily come from the arcade scene and carries that kind of energy throughout most of the playthrough. It's a hell of a hard task to graft a live service skin onto a JSR whose origins are so far removed from the very concept of a live service game.

 

[HyperSomari64]

looks at all the costumes that the Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Street Fighter, Splatoon and Mii characters can get, as well as Samus, Shulk, Joker, Cloud, Bayonetta, Hero, Terry, Kazuya and Sora
some of the other characters not mentioned also have additional outfits from their own games, but nowhere near as many as the aforementioned

Yeah, some costumes would be very awkward to play.

 

[Ivander]

I guess my biggest issue is that even if we somehow got an F2P Smash Bros with a favourable F2P system, my biggest problem with it would be how would it play on a mobile device. Like how would it work Smash Attacks or Smash-B Specials like Samus's homing missile? How many buttons would it be able to emulate? How does it feel playing on a mobile device? Maybe it's because I don't have any experience with fighting games on mobile, but at the same time, fitting all of the mechanics and controls of Smash Bros. looks like it would do quite a number on the screen.

View attachment 387729
Yeah, some costumes would be very awkward to play.

Even without her Yukata or similar outfits, she would still have plenty of costumes to draw from.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I also feel compelled to note that when talk of an Ultimate re-release comes up it's usually framed within the arguments about cuts and, more generally speaking, the roster. Putting aside my initial quip, The reason I would be interested in an Ultimate re-release is not related to the roster, but to everything else. Things that had to be sacrificed and skimped out on for the roster's sake during Ultimate's initial development. Modes, features, things like that. It would also be a great opportunity for engine tweaks and some more out-there balance adjustments that would be a bit too much to just drop on the existing game. Y'know, the one they abandoned and left to be terrorized by the block man.

you know what does this better than a rerelease, a new game.

take it from mario kart fans, you dont wanna go a decade of one game, it sucks.

 

[Ivander]

take it from mario kart fans, you dont wanna go a decade of one game, it sucks.

This fan doesn't speak for us. We basically got the equivalent of a new game with 48 new tracks, 8 additional characters, a slew of Mii Costumes and an option to take out the frickin' coins or go pure chaos. The Booster Course Pack was great fun.

I do agree a new Mario Kart is long overdue for an announcement, but I certainly had no issue with playing the same game with a ton of new stuff. It was a very fun time.

 

[Deleted member]

How do you guys feel about a Undertale rep?
Do you guys think it's likely at all? or it's very unlikely?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Now find an example from every other fighting game series since apparently all of them do that even today.

Okay.

Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection. Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion.
Virtua Fighter 5 R
Samurai Shodown V Special
Darkstalkers Vampire Savior 2 and Vampire Hunter 2.
Fatal Fury Special
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
Granblue Fantasy Versus: Rising did this 4 months ago.

So what do I win?


FFS, what major fighting game franchise hasn't done this?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Tekken.
Virtua Fighter.
SamSho.
Darkstalkers.
Fatal Fury.
Mortal Kombat.

FFS, what major fighting game franchise hasn't done this.

SoulCalibur?

 

[DarthEnderX]

SoulCalibur?

Soul Edge Ver. II.

 

[Ivander]

SoulCalibur?

Only if not including Arcade, cause I think there was a Soulcalibur 3 Arcade edition that fleshed out Hwang, Li Long and Amy to be complete characters and fixed alot of bugs. Particularly Variable-canceling which gave most of the cast a Full-health to death combo.