Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

I wonder in From Software is against their games crossing over with other games. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think a single one of their games have had any sort of crossover with any other game.

I kinda doubt it, I think it probably just has to do more with Dark Souls not being a series too obviously equipped for crossover material. It has a lot of iconic characters and iconography, but it's not really a "mascot" oriented series I suppose. There's also the factor of being a FromSoftware title rather than an in-house Bandai Namco one, so any number of Namco crossover material may favor the more direct stuff... even then, we haven't had a dedicated Namco crossover in some time and Dark Souls is a relatively newer series, so it's not as if we can look toward Namco x Capcom or Project X Zone for reference.

Personally I think hesitation about this kind of thing gets waived pretty quickly if Sakurai approaches them about it and pitches a good enough concept. I don't want to be too confident in saying so, but the man has made collaborative miracles happen and most companies and series directors would likely see it as an honor to be asked about such a thing. At the very least I can't imagine they'd say no to spirits, mii costumes, or even an AT or boss.

I imagine Dynasty/Samurai Warriors has to be somewhere up there as well.

Absolutely one of note, especially with how much crossover clout it already has amongst Nintendo series (which is pretty rare, honestly). It's a notable omission at a glance, but the historical context, its ties to real eras of Japanese history probably complicate things in a unique way. I wonder, if characters are an issue, if there's any other productive way it could be represented? Are there original characters who would do an efficient job carrying the series?

It could definitely sustain music, at the very least. Man, Koei Tecmo is overqualified for something by now aren't they?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

If we are talking about notable Japanese video game series not in Smash Yakuza or Like a Dragon continues to get more and more popular, I would say Kiryu is a serious contender if it wasn’t for the fact that his creator is very against him hitting women.

You could go for a different character from the series, but that would be like if the Metal Gear character wasn’t Snake, or the Kingdom Hearts character wasn’t Sora, it just wouldn’t feel right.

Actually, I don't see a problem with say, Majima over Kiryu and have been seeing him as the more likely option on the notion Sakurai might want to preserve the "doesn't fight women" aspect of Kiryu regardless of Nagoshi's leaving.

IIRC, Majima is actually the more popular of the two and is far from a minor character, so it's not like asking for someone random.

I think Majima gets horribly overlooked because of everyone's tunnel vision for Kiryu.
Just like when people got blindsided by Kazuya in part of the Heihachi tunnel vision (which I am guilty of myself).

 

[CannonStreak]

If we are talking about notable Japanese video game series not in Smash Yakuza or Like a Dragon continues to get more and more popular, I would say Kiryu is a serious contender if it wasn’t for the fact that his creator is very against him hitting women.

You could go for a different character from the series, but that would be like if the Metal Gear character wasn’t Snake, or the Kingdom Hearts character wasn’t Sora, it just wouldn’t feel right.

Yeah, but isn’t Kiryu’s creator not with Sega (or whatever company) anymore?

 

[Schnee117]

The biggest Japanese franchise not in Smash is Fate. That **** eclipses even Sonic.

If we are talking about notable Japanese video game series not in Smash Yakuza or Like a Dragon continues to get more and more popular, I would say Kiryu is a serious contender if it wasn’t for the fact that his creator is very against him hitting women.

You could go for a different character from the series, but that would be like if the Metal Gear character wasn’t Snake, or the Kingdom Hearts character wasn’t Sora, it just wouldn’t feel right.

They've already had to compromise on the "doesn't hit women" aspect to get Kiryu in PXZ2 and there's an argument to be made about cartoon violence too. Ichiban makes just as much sense as Kiryu with how he's the new protagonist anyway if they really don't want to compromise again and there's better crossover potential just for having him be alongside the DQ Heroes.

 

[Louie G.]

I'd say Resident Evil is the largest Japanese series currently not in Smash.

This is objectively the most accurate answer, although yeah the initial proposition was just series that have absolutely nothing. To extend it to a more physical presence though, the lack of anything substantial from Resident Evil is kind of glaring when recognizing how much content Capcom has been able to sustain without any presence from its most successful IP. Obviously Mega Man and Ryu have a bit more mascot appeal, but it's hard to argue that RE or MH shouldn't come next.

I can't find the statistics I used to have on hand for this, but I believe the biggest lapses among successful Japanese series on the roster, approximated by number of units sold, were something like...

Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Puyo Puyo, Power Pros, Shin Megami Tensei and Dark Souls.

Actually, I don't see a problem with say, Majima over Kiryu and have been seeing him as the more likely option on the notion Sakurai might want to preserve the "doesn't fight women" aspect of Kiryu regardless of Nagoshi's leaving.

I'm not the most well equipped to talk Yakuza, but I'd actually be super down for this. I'd be down for Kiryu too, but Majima is a lot of fun and he's still quite iconic of the series. Feels maybe a bit un-Smashlike not to opt for a firmly established protagonist like Kiryu, but under limited circumstances it's not unprecedented for them to make do. They did have Slime as a backup for Hero, at least. Part of me questions the seriousness or validity of the hitting women thing, but if we did have to play by those rules then that's fine.

Gotta say though, Ichiban is also insanely charming. I couldn't be too upset if they decided to go with him instead. Any of these three would be great... even if I'm kinda sorta hoping they go for another Sega series first. Sonic / Arle / Kiryu is a Sega character lineup from heaven, though.

 

[Stratos]

Some people believe that some Japanese video game characters can't come to the Super Smash Bros. series if they haven't had their games released outside of Japan, in other words in the Super Smash Bros. series in Japan they exist as playable characters, but if it's the same version outside of Japan not exist as playable characters because their video games were only released in Japan and nowhere else. Fortunately this is not the case and the proof is when Marth and Roy were introduced as newcomers to Super Smash Bros. Melee even though the Fire Emblem series was only released in Japan at the time. There are also those who believe that because some non-Japanese video games were not released in Japan they would never come to the Super Smash Bros. series, but even then it has been established that any video game character whether Japanese or not can come to the Super Smash Bros. series and proof is that some non-Japanese characters (like Rayman for example) even came as trophies in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U, but also proof is that Banjo and Kazooie from the series of the same name and Steve from the Minecraft series came as newcomers to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

 

[fogbadge]

Some people believe that some Japanese video game characters can't come to the Super Smash Bros. series if they haven't had their games released outside of Japan, in other words in the Super Smash Bros. series in Japan they exist as playable characters, but if it's the same version outside of Japan not exist as playable characters because their video games were only released in Japan and nowhere else. Fortunately this is not the case and the proof is when Marth and Roy were introduced as newcomers to Super Smash Bros Melee even though the Fire Emblem series was only released in Japan at the time. There are also those who believe that because some non-Japanese video games were not released in Japan they would never come to the Super Smash Bros series, but even then it has been established that any video game character whether Japanese or not can come to the Super Smash Bros series and proof is that some non-Japanese characters (like Rayman for example) even came as trophies in Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U, but also proof is that Banjo and Kazooie from the series of the same name and Steve from the Minecraft series came as newcomers to Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

yeah but everyone also thinks sakurai plays favourites when it comes to FE

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Do you think Smash will lean more towards western 3rd party characters in the future? The only 2 we have gotten are Steve who is from the most popular western game in Japan and Banjo & Kazooie who are basically honorary Nintendo characters with moderate popularity in Japan (not to mention his placement in the ballot).

Most western games have very little popularity in Japan, and I feel that’s a major reason we don’t have many of them. Aside from Crash Bandicoot and Undertale I can’t think of other western games with eligible characters that Japan really cares about.

 

[Ivander]

I mean, I can certainly count more than 10 notable JP franchises without a playable character in Smash Bros.

1. Resident Evil
2. Monster Hunter
3. Devil May Cry
4. Digimon
5. Tales of series
6. Dark Souls
7. Yakuza/Like a Dragon
8. Phantasy Star
9. Puyo Puyo
10. Silent Hill
11. Warriors series(Dynasty, Samurai, Hyrule, etc)
12. Fate series
13. Granblue Fantasy

 

[Golden Icarus]

Sometimes I feel like characters that are considered "obscure" may be better-received in Smash than characters from popular games.

Broadly speaking I'd say that tends to be pretty true depending on the person. A lot of it is probably the high expectations that popular characters have. For me I know that I'll be pretty accepting of any character, so if it's someone I've never thought about being playable/never even heard of in the first place, then there's always a lot of excitement. You can't really be disappointed by a moveset when you never had a vision for it anyway and the joy of learning about a character and series for the very first time through Smash is the best.

If we are talking about notable Japanese video game series not in Smash Yakuza or Like a Dragon continues to get more and more popular, I would say Kiryu is a serious contender if it wasn’t for the fact that his creator is very against him hitting women.

You could go for a different character from the series, but that would be like if the Metal Gear character wasn’t Snake, or the Kingdom Hearts character wasn’t Sora, it just wouldn’t feel right.

The hitting women statement is so funny because of how it suddenly paints Kiryu as a more morally upstanding guy than Mario, Link, Cloud, etc. Also if they did decide to someone like Ichiban instead, then that's essentially Nagoshi directly implying that Ichi lacks the same moral backbone that Kiryu has.

Overthinking Smash Bros like that is just so absurd lol

 

[Louie G.]

Do you think Smash will lean more towards western 3rd party characters in the future? The only 2 we have gotten are Steve who is from the most popular western game in Japan and Banjo & Kazooie who are basically honorary Nintendo characters with moderate popularity in Japan.

Most western games have very little popularity in Japan, and I feel that’s a major reason we don’t have many of them. Aside from Crash Bandicoot and Undertale I can’t think of other western games with eligible characters that Japan really cares about.

I've spoken my piece on Undertale plenty (I think it has a good chance), and I think the FPS genre is vast enough where a legacy character like Doomguy or Master Chief is justified even if those characters aren't the biggest in Japan directly. These would be the ones to watch out for IMO.

Characters with deep, genre defining influence like those two are decidedly less difficult sells and I have to imagine Halo still has some degree of brand recognition overseas despite it all. Contemporary games in the shooter genre like Fortnite, Apex Legends (which is really big over there, apparently) or Overwatch (gulp) have had pretty notable worldwide appeal as well. All in all FPS games are some of the most definitive of the industry at large right now so the absence of characters reflecting that, especially after the introduction of western series to the roster, is more felt now than ever.

I think we will continue to add more western characters, but probably not as many as some people are hoping for. But we only just got started during Ultimate DLC, so as long as Microsoft is back on board I'm sure there are plenty of new options available to us even just from that one partnership.

 

[ninjahmos]

Do you think Smash will lean more towards western 3rd party characters in the future? The only 2 we have gotten are Steve who is from the most popular western game in Japan and Banjo & Kazooie who are basically honorary Nintendo characters with moderate popularity in Japan (not to mention his placement in the ballot).

Most western games have very little popularity in Japan, and I feel that’s a major reason we don’t have many of them. Aside from Crash Bandicoot and Undertale I can’t think of other western games with eligible characters that Japan really cares about.

You know, this makes me wonder about the popularity of certain western franchises in Japan, like DOOM, Halo, The Elder Scrolls, etc.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I mean, I can certainly count more than 10 notable JP franchises without a playable character in Smash Bros.

1. Resident Evil
2. Monster Hunter
3. Devil May Cry
4. Digimon
5. Tales of series
6. Dark Souls
7. Yakuza/Like a Dragon
8. Phantasy Star
9. Puyo Puyo
10. Silent Hill
11. Warriors series(Dynasty, Samurai, Hyrule, etc)
12. Fate series
13. Granblue Fantasy

What about Touhou?

 

[Louie G.]

Sometimes I feel like characters that are considered "obscure" may be better-received in Smash than characters from popular games.

Yes, in some strange way. I think being able to get introduced to a character through Smash allows you to form a fresh opinion on them based on how fun they are to play, or how important Sakurai says they are. Everyone got schooled hard on Terry and he quickly became one of the more warmly received and frequently played characters on the roster when everyone learned who he was and what he meant to Smash, and many fans in other parts of the world.

It's quite a bit different with third parties, but it did remind me of how once upon a time people got to know obscure characters through Smash first and foremost and they became incredibly popular that way. I wish we had more third parties who pushed fans in this direction again, because growing up it was learning about new series that became the most rewarding aspect of Smash's roster. So yeah, these guys do have a bit more wiggle room compared to characters who fans are always beating you over the head with and everyone has already heard enough about to form a strong opinion on.

 

[HyperSomari64]

What about Touhou?

I don't know what a "Toe-Hoe" is, but i know is a doujin shoot em up.
As far as i know, the only SHMUP that is more iconic is Space Invaders.
And because Square Enix owns Taito, there is still a chance.

 

[fogbadge]

Yes, in some strange way. I think being able to get introduced to a character through Smash allows you to form a fresh opinion on them based on how fun they are to play, or how important Sakurai says they are. Everyone got schooled hard on Terry and he quickly became one of the more warmly received and frequently played characters on the roster when everyone learned who he was and what he meant to Smash, and many fans in other parts of the world.

It's quite a bit different with third parties, but it did remind me of how once upon a time people got to know obscure characters through Smash first and foremost and they became incredibly popular that way. I wish we had more third parties who pushed fans in this direction again, because growing up it was learning about new series that became the most rewarding aspect of Smash's roster. So yeah, these guys do have a bit more wiggle room compared to characters who fans are always beating you over the head with and everyone has already heard enough about to form a strong opinion on.

I wouldn’t say that holds up universally. If anything smash has the opposite effect sometimes

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I mean, I can certainly count more than 10 notable JP franchises without a playable character in Smash Bros.

1. Resident Evil
2. Monster Hunter
3. Devil May Cry
4. Digimon
5. Tales of series
6. Dark Souls
7. Yakuza/Like a Dragon
8. Phantasy Star
9. Puyo Puyo
10. Silent Hill
11. Warriors series(Dynasty, Samurai, Hyrule, etc)
12. Fate series
13. Granblue Fantasy

14. NieR
15. Ace Attorney
16. Soul Calibur
17. Ghosts n Goblins
18. Professor Layton
19. Bomberman
20. Ninja Gaiden
21. Contra
22. Dead Rising
23. Dead or Alive
24. Guilty Gear
25. Frogger

The list goes on

 

[Stratos]

This is a list of Nintendo video game characters (or at least I think of them as Nintendo) that were only released outside of Japan:

Unicycle (Uniracers)
Tin Star
John Raimi (Geist)
Queen Azarel (Warlocked)
Chief Zog (Warlocked)
Mike Jones (StarTropics series)
Mr. Stevenson (Gumshoe)

Now if there are others I don't know.

 

[Louie G.]

I wouldn’t say that holds up universally. If anything smash has the opposite effect sometimes

Yeah, it's not a foolproof truth about the series but it's something that has held true to some degree, arguably a pretty consistent degree, over the years.

Ness, Captain Falcon, Marth and Roy, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, Ike, Lucas, Little Mac, Shulk, King K. Rool, Terry Bogard...

All varying circumstances, and across many years, but they've all benefitted greatly through Smash and being introduced to new audiences and generations who may have been less familiar with them. Sure, someone like Min Min for example probably didn't reap these rewards since her playstyle is annoying to deal with and specialized in a way that is boring to many players. Which is unfortunate, but I think the results are overwhelmingly positive with a few relative duds.

 

[Golden Icarus]

You know, this makes me wonder about the popularity of certain western franchises in Japan, like DOOM, Halo, The Elder Scrolls, etc.

I know that Skyrim is one of the few Western games that really hit it big in Japan, both commercially and critically. It’s the first Western game to receive a perfect Famitsu score, followed by GTA V and Ghost of Tsushima. Among these games, Elder Scrolls definitely feels like the most realistic addition to Smash, but really struggles by not really having an obvious distinct character to add. The Dragonborn feels a bit too much like a blank slate in terms of personality, gameplay and appearance.

 

[ninjahmos]

I know that Skyrim is one of the few Western games that really hit it big in Japan, both commercially and critically. It’s the first Western game to receive a perfect Famitsu score, followed by GTA V and Ghost of Tsushima. Among these games, Elder Scrolls definitely feels like the most realistic addition to Smash, but really struggles by not really having an obvious distinct character to add. The Dragonborn feels a bit too much like a blank slate in terms of personality, gameplay and appearance.

Maybe they could use the different playable races and different sets of armor as alts.

 

[Gengar84]

Do you think Smash will lean more towards western 3rd party characters in the future? The only 2 we have gotten are Steve who is from the most popular western game in Japan and Banjo & Kazooie who are basically honorary Nintendo characters with moderate popularity in Japan.

Most western games have very little popularity in Japan, and I feel that’s a major reason we don’t have many of them. Aside from Crash Bandicoot and Undertale I can’t think of other western games with eligible characters that Japan really cares about.

I hope so. I actually prefer Japanese games overall but there are a ton of Western characters that would make for awesome Smash fighters. Many of the Japanese developed characters I really wanted are either already in Smash or have very little chance to make it. There’s still plenty from each region I’d love to see and it makes sense for Smash to focus primarily on Japan but I’d love to see them expand a bit more.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Actually, I don't see a problem with say, Majima over Kiryu and have been seeing him as the more likely option on the notion Sakurai might want to preserve the "doesn't fight women" aspect of Kiryu regardless of Nagoshi's leaving.

IIRC, Majima is actually the more popular of the two and is far from a minor character, so it's not like asking for someone random.

I think Majima gets horribly overlooked because of everyone's tunnel vision for Kiryu.
Just like when people got blindsided by Kazuya in part of the Heihachi tunnel vision (which I am guilty of myself).

I do love Majima, and I would actually prefer him in Tekken over Kiryu, but for Smash it’s Kiryu or bust for me.

 

[Ivander]

What about Touhou?

I don't know anything about Touhou when it comes to sales or whatnot. I mainly did the JP-made franchises that had reached around 20 million sales or more and, for the ones I knew of, grossed over 500 million revenue(Phantasy Star Online 2, Fate and Granblue). The only one I wasn't 100% certain on was Silent Hill, as I thought it was close to the former last time I checked, but I could be wrong. There is Konami's Pachislot stuff that includes Silent Hill pachislots as well, but I can't find anything on those.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I don't know anything about Touhou when it comes to sales or whatnot. I mainly did the JP-made franchises that had reached around 20 million sales or more and, for the ones I knew of, grossed over 500 million revenue(Phantasy Star Online 2, Fate and Granblue). The only one I wasn't 100% certain on was Silent Hill, as I thought it was close to the former last time I checked, but I could be wrong. There is Konami's Pachislot stuff that includes Silent Hill pachislots as well, but I can't find anything on those.

Sales wise, it probably isn't that huge.

But it has a cultural impact.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The Dragonborn feels a bit too much like a blank slate in terms of personality, gameplay and appearance.

Do you feel the same about Monster Hunter and Chosen Undead? I do wonder if that plays a part in them not being prioritized.

I know what you said was more or less the reason the Monster Hunter team shut down the idea of the Hunter being playable in MVC3. I don’t know if they changed their mind when MVCI was being developed of if the MVCI devs added the Hunter without consulting with the MH team. I remember hearing the latter was the case, but I don’t know of any proof of that.

 

[Arcanir]

Because TPC said so.

No but seriously, Smash's Pokemon reps are very, very focused on what's being marketed at the time, and the marketing for Gen 8 and 9 show that they want to be a lot more blatant about pushing the starter that gets the deliberately broken moves/abilities than 7 was. Meanwhile, with Kanto they can't be hyperfocused on that because...neither Venusaur, Charizard, nor Blastoise are meant to be intentionally OP. Mega/Gigantamax Charizard, maybe, but its base form not so much.

This ignores a few things on the competitive side though:

1. Kanto not having an overtly OP starter doesn't really change the fact that Charizard has been the marketing darling for years.
2. That that there are other Generations with similarly not as overtly OP starters like Gen 4 or 5 (at least pre-HA release) so Gen 1 is not alone there.
3. That Rillaboom has been a powerhouse in both VGC and OU two gens running and that Skeledirge has been keeping relative pace in Smogon tiers with Meowscarada (who despite getting Protean, also deals with its nerf) while Quaquaval has been pretty good overall itself.
4. Being bad in competitive didn't stop Inteleon from being a favorite in Japan, especially in comparison to the stronger Rillaboom.

I'm not going to pretend there aren't favorites in marketing, but using competitive for this point is questionable since most of their peers didn't get screwed out of the deal. Rillaboom may've not gotten a Protean clone like Cinderace, but Grassy Surge is far from a bad ability and Grassy Glide is a solid move in its kit. Similarly, Skeledirge's Torch Song and Unaware gives it a strong presence and Quaquaval's Moxie and Aqua Step is a great combo. Inteleon is the only one that's bad, but that's only one out of the four that got a bad hand.

Regardless, we still have to consider that Sakurai has shown he's allowed to pick from the set of Pokemon. Gen 7 came down to a choice between Decidueye and Incineroar, and it's implied there were other options than Greninja for Gen 6. We don't know how much flexibility TCPi gives him, but it's not like Incineroar or Greninja were forced on him. He liked what they provided and that's what he chose, the options are not as locked in as you imply. For all we know, we could get a case like Chrom and Robin where the more promoted option was skipped for another due to them providing more to work with from his perspective.

 

[Guynamednelson]

For all we know, we could get a case like Chrom and Robin where the more promoted option was skipped for another due to them providing more to work with from his perspective.

The difference there is that the FE fans who specifically wanted to play as Chrom really, really wanted to actually play as Chrom. With Pokemon, people didn't ask questions, just consumed Whatever New Starter's The Most Human, and then got excited for the next WNSTMH. Or if they did ask questions, most of them asked the wrong ones.

Furthermore, Cinderace and Meowscarada being intentionally OP in competitive is just one sign that TPC is pushing them as the Pokemon you MUST like. On the anime, Goh's Scorbunny quickly evolved, and Liko's Sprigatito is already planned to not stay as one.

 

[Arcanir]

I don’t know if they changed their mind when MVCI was being developed of if the MVCI devs added the Hunter without consulting with the MH team. I remember hearing the latter was the case, but I don’t know of any proof of that.

There isn't any proof, it was just a false rumor pushed around by fans. It also makes no sense as it's one of their most popular franchises and one of its directors is the son of the company owner, so there's very little reason to believe it when the easier solution is just that they worked out something that the team would (perhaps begrudgingly) allow.

The difference there is that the FE fans who specifically wanted to play as Chrom really, really wanted to actually play as Chrom. With Pokemon, people didn't ask questions, just consumed Whatever New Starter's The Most Human, and then got excited for the next WNSTMH. Or if they did ask questions, most of them asked the wrong ones.

Furthermore, Cinderace and Meowscarada being intentionally OP in competitive is just one sign that TPC is pushing them as the Pokemon you MUST like. On the anime, Goh's Scorbunny quickly evolved, and Liko's Sprigatito is already planned to not stay as one.

Except many fans do like and play as Greninja and Incineroar, so I'm not sure what your point is there.

Also, I highly doubt they looked as Grassy Surge, Torch Song, and Aqua Step and didn't think they wouldn't help make the respective Pokemon good. And Goh's Sobble also quickly evolved and we don't know what the plan is for the Gen 9 Starters so it's presumptuous to assume nothing happens there.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Except many fans do like and play as Greninja and Incineroar, so I'm not sure what your point is there.

People who wanted to play as Chrom didn't give up. People who wanted to play as Decidueye/Mimikyu/Lycanroc did.

 

[Wonder Smash]

What if they added The Outfoxies to Smash? I know it'd be highly unlikely since it was only released in Japan, but it'd still be pretty cool.

In fact, it was basically the FIRST EVER platform-fighter before Super Smash Bros., AND it was made by Namco.

Yeah, as fitting they are, being obscure and by Namco (meaning they have some big competition), I wouldn't bet on them getting in.

But, if we're talking about the type of games that Smash is before it even existed, we can also look at the River City series, which was also the first to feature a 4-player fighting game (Nekketsu Fighting Legend in 1992) and 4-player party fighting (Downtown Nekketsu March Super Awesome Field Day in 1990).

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

6 years. It's been at least 6 years of this bull****.

 

[Guynamednelson]

6 years. It's been at least 6 years of this bull****.

Just be glad it's only me left who's aware of what Gen 7 Pokemon are actually marketed.

Hence why TPC still liking to market Eevee is literally the only way we'll get another Pokemon that's not WNSTMH.

 

[Louie G.]

People who wanted to play as Chrom didn't give up. People who wanted to play as Decidueye/Mimikyu/Lycanroc did.

I wonder which Pokemon in Smash would have still be highly requested if they hadn't made it in sooner? I feel like people do want to play as those characters... I mean, I still think Mimikyu is a really cool idea at least. But with Pokemon especially it must feel like kind of a lost cause to keep whining about it, and even more than Fire Emblem these characters get muddled into a sea of like 20 other Pokemon you'd like to see playable.

If fans didn't give up on Decidueye for example, would they still be a strong candidate for a future title? TPC and Sakurai will always barter for someone brand new first, and with the exception of Pokemon Trainer legacy picks have not had very much luck. Even the return of Mewtwo, maybe the most apparent example of Pokemon demand detached from their prime, had to be delayed to DLC in Smash 4. So I have to doubt much would come from it, and can understand why people just give up immediately until remakes or recently the Legends series decide to focus on whatever generation / Pokemon again.

The most compelling question to me is whether or not we'd be hearing requests for Lucario today if he didn't make it into Brawl. For how prominent and popular they've remained over the years I can imagine it feeling like a more striking absence, but I also think a Pokemon's presence in Smash does a number on their longevity by proxy.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Digimon is also a notable Japanese series without Smash representation.

.....let me cope.

I have to wonder if it's a matter of the Pokemon Company specifically requesting not to do Digimon since its like their rival series, if Namco doesn't want to do it, or what. It's a notable series that's just weird not to have some form of representation.

 

[Guynamednelson]

But with Pokemon especially it must feel like kind of a lost cause to keep whining about it,

Well yeah, that's why I moved on to Eevee as our only hope of getting something that isn't WNSTMH.

 

[ninjahmos]

Yeah, as fitting they are, being obscure and by Namco (meaning they have some big competition), I wouldn't bet on them getting in.

But, if we're talking about the type of games that Smash is before it even existed, we can also look at the River City series, which was also the first to feature a 4-player fighting game (Nekketsu Fighting Legend in 1992) and 4-player party fighting (Downtown Nekketsu March Super Awesome Field Day in 1990).

I think another good example of a precursor to the platform-fighter genre before Smash might be SNK's Savage Reign and its sequel Kizuna Encounter, which are both weapon-based.

 

[Ivander]

Sales wise, it probably isn't that huge.

But it has a cultural impact.

Oh, I don't deny that, between the impact it had on Internet culture in the 2000s, on shoot-em-ups and being one of Toby Fox and Undertale's inspirations. It's not impossible for games that don't sell as much as the heavy hitters to have an impact on later games.

 

[Curious Villager]

I have to wonder if it's a matter of the Pokemon Company specifically requesting not to do Digimon since its like their rival series, if Namco doesn't want to do it, or what. It's a notable series that's just weird not to have some form of representation.

That would be pretty petty on the Pokemon company's part, though it could also be that the parent company may not want to call attention to it and draw any comparisons I guess, especially if said given series has that reputation already that they want to shake off.

This is just something I've heard from different people, but apparently Hino stated at some point that he wasn't too keen on seeing Yo-Kai Watch represented in Smash out of concerns that it would draw in comparisons with Pokemon again instead of letting the franchise stand on its own, something he's been trying to avoid for the franchise for the longest time.

Though granted I have yet to see the source on this statement for myself so treat that with a large grain of salt..

 

[Speed Weed]

What if they added The Outfoxies to Smash? I know it'd be highly unlikely since it was only released in Japan, but it'd still be pretty cool.

In fact, it was basically the FIRST EVER platform-fighter before Super Smash Bros., AND it was made by Namco.

Outfoxies is my favorite Namco arcade game but I'd be....a bit disappointed if it made it before any number of other retro Namco characters with much larger history and popularity. It's such a minor game in the grand scheme of things and I dislike the idea of them spending resources and development time on what I feel would at the end of the day just be there because of a piece of trivia. There's also the matter of them already being platform fighter characters making me less interested in them compared to, as mentioned, other vintage Namco folk who could be more interesting to adapt. I'd be much happier just seeing the game show up in a dedicated Namco crossover.

That said they should put Dweeb in the Namco roulette because it'd be funny