Newcomers shouldn't start out as Fox?

[notkain]

I've heard from several people, including Mango, that if you're a newcomer to Melee..starting out as Fox probably isn't a good idea.

As it would be hard to straight up go for tech and all of jargon that comes with playing Fox, that many newcomers would more than likely have trouble developing.

Could anyone give more detail on the matter?

Is it true? Just wondering!

 

[notkain]

Alright maybe this isn't important at all!

 

[4 Aces]

Not important. He's hard to control at first, but there's not really a reason to learn another character first, then switch over. That might even make it harder.

 

[notkain]

Not important. He's hard to control at first, but there's not really a reason to learn another character first, then switch over. That might even make it harder.

Thanks for the information

 

[Shadowinvadr]

I started out with Fox and it really payed off. After learning SHFFL and wavedash with him I could do all those techniques with every other character pretty easily.

 

[fennel69]

It's nor important if you do not get discouraged by his control style and the techskill to learn.

 

[TKD]

Mango only made that assumption because he didn´t start as Fox, but imagines it would be really tough.

I started out as Fox in like ´06 and later became the best player in my town. You´re just probably going to need a gamecube so you can practice wavedashing, waveshining, short hopping, jc grab, stuff like that (besides human practice -of all levels- of course).

Fox may even be one of the easier characters to start out with because you can put up a fight doing easy stuff like camping platforms, full hop bairs and uthrow to uair (it takes less work as him than as other characters to reach a point where you can actually do some damage).

But yeah, Fox isn´t that hard to learn compared to the rest of the cast (although really any character is tough to learn in this game). There are easier characters (like maybe Falco and Puff, who reap larger rewards for more forgiving inputs), but there are also tougher ones (like probably Marth and Sheik, who are really intuitive or often require excellent execution).

A huge advantage from starting out as Fox is that you can try out another character or play it for fun without having too much of an issue with the technical stuff. My biggest problem has always been timing the wavedash for characters with slower jumps, which isn´t that big of a deal.

Fox is a great starter all around. Good at first, good later, easy to improve (you don´t have to get too philosophical as you can simply practice your tech skill), and easy to switch from.

 

[SAUS]

Mango only made that assumption because he didn´t start as Fox, but imagines it would be really tough.

I started out as Fox in like ´06 and later became the best player in my town. You´re just probably going to need a gamecube so you can practice wavedashing, waveshining, short hopping, jc grab, stuff like that (besides human practice -of all levels- of course).

Fox may even be one of the easier characters to start out with because you can put up a fight doing easy stuff like camping platforms, full hop bairs and uthrow to uair (it takes less work as him than as other characters to reach a point where you can actually do some damage).

But yeah, Fox isn´t that hard to learn compared to the rest of the cast (although really any character is tough to learn in this game). There are easier characters (like maybe Falco and Puff, who reap larger rewards for more forgiving inputs), but there are also tougher ones (like probably Marth and Sheik, who are really intuitive or often require excellent execution).

A huge advantage from starting out as Fox is that you can try out another character or play it for fun without having too much of an issue with the technical stuff. My biggest problem has always been timing the wavedash for characters with slower jumps, which isn´t that big of a deal.

Fox is a great starter all around. Good at first, good later, easy to improve (you don´t have to get too philosophical as you can simply practice your tech skill), and easy to switch from.

I think he's probably fine to start as, you just have to not get too focused on some of the ridiculous things and just make sure you learn the right way - start with the basics and then tack on some other harder things.

As for slow jumping wave dashes, have you tried bowsers? lol
My friend invented "the ultimate bowser challenge" where you play in slow-mo melee and everyone plays bowser and the first person to wavedash perfectly 5 times in a row wins.

 

[Gentlefox]

I'm a newbie, but that might make my input a little /more/ valuable in this case.

Fox is the first character I'm practicing competitively, and I'm glad I picked him.

You can rely a bit more on tech skill than analyzing people, hitboxes, etc. Once you have that, the majority of what you do can come from your brain downloading videos. If I play, say, Mewtwo, I would have to innovate constantly, as there are only a few people to learn from. With fox, I don't have that problem. I have high U-air timing from Mango and M2K. Low U-air timing from Chillin. Up tilt from Mango and Chillin. The list goes on. I can find multiple skilled fox videos for /every/ possible opponent, and they are recent enough to reflect what current foxes do.

 

[SAUS]

I'm a newbie, but that might make my input a little /more/ valuable in this case.

Fox is the first character I'm practicing competitively, and I'm glad I picked him.

You can rely a bit more on tech skill than analyzing people, hitboxes, etc. Once you have that, the majority of what you do can come from your brain downloading videos. If I play, say, Mewtwo, I would have to innovate constantly, as there are only a few people to learn from. With fox, I don't have that problem. I have high U-air timing from Mango and M2K. Low U-air timing from Chillin. Up tilt from Mango and Chillin. The list goes on. I can find multiple skilled fox videos for /every/ possible opponent, and they are recent enough to reflect what current foxes do.

That's a super rare character though. What about falcon? There are tons of videos of falcon that someone could learn from and he doesn't require nearly as much technical skill as fox does.

 

[4 Aces]

The bigger problem I find with starting out with a "low tier" character, is people generally get gated fast on what they can/can't do. And they also don't see huge power spikes as fast, because of it. Then when they try to switch, they are reluctant to, because they already spent so much time on one character and don't want to switch...scared that the training is gonna be harder/more tedious. Seems to happen to the newer players around my area.

It's not that you can't get good with low tiers; it's that people seem to get discouraged faster.

That's a super rare character though. What about falcon? There are tons of videos of falcon that someone could learn from and he doesn't require nearly as much technical skill as fox does.

That is true, but at the same time, it's harder for a person who don't quite understand it intuitively/see everything that's happening in videos.

Ex: CunningKitsune's Fox Bible is one of the most in-depth guides for Fox. We also have a crapton of starter Fox training videos, then smaller, in-depth Fox tutorials (Fox Laser Guide, Shine guide, FluxWolf's various videos, etc.). It gives them something really concrete to attach themselves to. Then looking at Falcon, there's videos out there, but it's more obscure, taken down, or simply don't exist. I remember going into the C. Falcon boards to look for a simple/complex guide on technical how-to's with Falcon/how to start playing as him a few years ago (2010). Was looking for a guide for a friend who was interested in him, but couldn't find anything.

I think it's gotten better since then, and anyone who's seriously interested in learning will find a way to do so.

 

[TKD]

Falcon is pretty darn technical too, so I wouldn't count on him being that much easier to control. He has to manage his drifting and traction quite masterfully inbetween almost anything he does. He's also not as good at chasing techs (even though landing them can reap enormous rewards), which are much more important for his success. Add to that, that his recovery is one of the worst in the game...to the point where many players think that if he gets to recover, it usually means his opponent did something wrong. That sounds like a pretty discouraging character to me (although he looks like tons of fun).

 

[SAUS]

Fair enough. I just felt mewtwo as an example wasn't the best I think that melee overall is just hard. It doesn't matter which character you play. You just have to tough it up through the learning phase.

 

[mecawe]

I started as fox, and I can tell you that once you get the short hop down, you don't have to worry about the other characters

 

[Nicco]

He's a great character to practice shffling with, but since he isn't worth much without near perfect shffling, and everyone knows how to fight fox, you'll get ***** hard in the beginning. The beginning is a long time too propably

 

[x412]

If you enjoy the "feel" of Fox now without learning the tech then work on it. Being "new" doesn't really matter since there's tons of guides out there for all viable characters. Otherwise don't bother. What I mean by this is, for example, I don't like really slow moving characters so someone like Ganondorf is terrible for me. But Fox? Yes please.

Then, if you don't mind sitting down and working on tech then also go for it. Some stuff is universal like L-Cancelling but something like Fox's short hop is one of the hardest things to master at first due to how little the timing window is. Fast inputs are required and Fox is the only one like this. This is what may scare new people away. But master him and you can do tech easily with any other character.

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

Fox doesn't always force someone to win by using fundamentals, admittedly there are times at low levels when you can simply blast someone with techskill spam and you'll win which can and will hinder you later.

I think what mango meant is that by starting with puff he had to learn how to beat players by outhinking them (because puff doesn't have the raw power) as opposed to overpowering them.

The point is to make sure you can win without techskill and then add it in as you see how to intelligently use it.