Official Newcomer Speculation Discussion

TheCJBrine

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Like I said, Minecraft arena, just like Rathalos being in a Monster Hunter arena for his boss fight. Problem solved.
Could be in Classic mode, but each character seems to have their own run and boss;
Kirby fights Marx on his run
.

I'd rather Banjo-Kazooie fight Grunty, or if we were to get another Microsoft character, their own respective boss. DLC could be added to Adventure Mode, I guess, if they don't mind rearranging or adding to the map...
 
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TheCJBrine

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Yeah, but not every character gets a boss from their own franchise.
Are there any examples? I'm not up-to-date with this stuff tbh.

I know Ness fights Master Hand, but that's a Smash-original
.

Anyways, I know Steve isn't 100% (I even mentioned Banjo-Kazooie and Rare stuff being found which sorta raises their chances), I'm just throwing out hypothetical stuff which is all anyone does here.

It's also possible no one truly knows the DLC 100%, so we may end up getting surprises.
 
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TheCJBrine

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Roy and Wolf, just to name two right off the bat.
You can't argue that the dlc fighter would have to match a DLC boss in franchise.
Wolf fights a Smash-original boss (Galleom), with Roy fighting Master Hand like Ness does
. It may not be their own franchise, but if Banjo-Kazooie didn't fight Grunty or another B-K boss for some reason they'd probably just fight Master Hand (however I'm not ruling out the Ender Dragon or the Wither as possibilities).

However, my original point was that the Minecraft stuff could be a normal stage with a stage boss which is entirely hypothetical like everything else, I honestly don't see why we're turning this into an argument as if Steve is an improbability or something :S I even pointed out how Banjo-Kazooie's chances may have been raised.
 
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GoodGrief741

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Are there any examples? I'm not up-to-date with this stuff tbh.

I know Ness fights Master Hand, but that's a Smash-original.

Anyways, I know Steve isn't 100% (I even mentioned Banjo-Kazooie and Rare stuff being found which sorta raises their chances), I'm just throwing out hypothetical stuff which is all anyone does here.

It's also possible no one truly knows the DLC 100%, so we may end up getting surprises.
Roy and Wolf, just to name two right off the bat.
You can't argue that the dlc fighter would have to match a DLC boss in franchise.
Wolf fights a Smash-original boss (Galleom), with Roy fighting Master Hand like Ness does. It may not be their own franchise, but if Banjo-Kazooie didn't fight Grunty or another B-K boss for some reason they'd probably just fight Master Hand (however I'm not ruling out the Ender Dragon or the Wither as possibilities).

However, my original point was that the Minecraft stuff could be a normal stage with a stage boss which is entirely hypothetical like everything else, I honestly don't see why we're turning this into an argument as if Steve is an improbability or something :S I even pointed out how Banjo-Kazooie's chances may have been raised.

You guys should probably spoiler-tag the bosses in Classic. I personally don’t mind, but there’s bound to be someone who does, and the game isn’t even out yet.
 
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User was warned for this post; flaming

You guys should probably spoiler-tag the bosses in Classic. I personally don’t mind, but there’s bound to be someone who does, and the game isn’t even out yet.

You have to be ****TING ME. You're actually going to talk about these data mines? You're going to ruin someones hard work, just to see who the ****ING BOSSES ARE? This is more than just rude, this is disgraceful to Sakurai, the team and everyone involved that worked head over heals for 3 YEARS!! To give us this game, these disgusting whores that are doing this, datamining EVERY INCH OF ENJOYMENT AND SURPRISE YOU'LL HAVE WITH THE GAME, just to get their 5 ****ing minutes of fame......... That's not only messed up but disgusting, you can do what you like, I can't stop you, but if you have an inch of humility in your heart for Sakurai, Nintendo and Namco........ You'll wait the 2 ****ING weeks to play this game.
 
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The Minecraft boss thing and no data found

That could just be a patch update or involved of the fighter pass

And it was also confirmed no porky since nesses boss is master hand

But the question is, is porky a fighter pass character or is he a later on patch boss fight?

Same can be asked about the missing Subspace mode bosses (not playable)
 
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You have to be ****TING ME. You're actually going to talk about these data mines? You're going to ruin someones hard work, just to see who the ****ING BOSSES ARE? This is more than just rude, this is disgraceful to Sakurai, the team and everyone involved that worked head over heals for 3 YEARS!! To give us this game, these disgusting whores that are doing this, datamining EVERY INCH OF ENJOYMENT AND SURPRISE YOU'LL HAVE WITH THE GAME, just to get their 5 ****ing minutes of fame......... That's not only messed up but disgusting, you can do what you like, I can't stop you, but if you have an inch of humility in your heart for Sakurai, Nintendo and Namco........ You'll wait the 2 ****ING weeks to play this game.
Is this a copy pasta ?
 

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Please spoiler tag any dataming stuff(as well as Classic Bosses) and label it.

And yes, you can speak about it here too. Nothing wrong with that. But it much be spoiler-marked. I'll go back and make sure any Classic Mode/World of Light stuff is spoilered.

Besides that, don't act all mad because people are talking about it. Spoilers exist and always will. Expecting people to wait till the full game out when it's datamined and leaked is ridiculous. That doesn't mean you can go on all flames either. Act mature here.
 

GoodGrief741

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You have to be ****TING ME. You're actually going to talk about these data mines? You're going to ruin someones hard work, just to see who the ****ING BOSSES ARE? This is more than just rude, this is disgraceful to Sakurai, the team and everyone involved that worked head over heals for 3 YEARS!! To give us this game, these disgusting whores that are doing this, datamining EVERY INCH OF ENJOYMENT AND SURPRISE YOU'LL HAVE WITH THE GAME, just to get their 5 ****ing minutes of fame......... That's not only messed up but disgusting, you can do what you like, I can't stop you, but if you have an inch of humility in your heart for Sakurai, Nintendo and Namco........ You'll wait the 2 ****ING weeks to play this game.
Why are you telling me? I just told other people to use spoiler tags.
 

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Why are you telling me? I just told other people to use spoiler tags.
Who knows.

It's clear sometimes people need to rant. Doesn't make it appropriate to flame others(which is obvious when it got infracted, as one can see above), though.

I can completely understand where he's coming from. Sakurai honestly isn't a fan of things being leaked(though people way overexaggerate his reactions to it. He isn't going to go nuts. He's just disappointed, really). But it won't affect him much beyond that. It's notable that it's Nintendo that truly cares due to NDA-based issues. If something isn't released till a specific time, only some information is allowed to be out. Any leaker breaks this, of course. It's kind of a "non-written agreement" in this particular case. Reviewers get a more unique NDA. Otherwise, only people who are playing legally available copies in some way(including Demos) are allowed to spread information by design. Datamines don't count and are considered something that should not be given out.
 

Lady Haruka Ishijima

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Well, I for one do not mind spoilers here.

Sa, going to be assertive and briefly predict who I think the DLC characters might be:
  • Kamek (Mario/Yoshi series)
  • Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong series)
  • Impa (Legend of Zelda series)
  • Alm/Celica (Fire Emblem series) - Similar to :4olimar::4alph: they share the same slot but functionally identical.
  • Jeanne (Bayonetta series) - May or may not be a :ultbayonetta: echo. Since Nintendo is publishing Bayonetta 3, I say she is a good prediction.
  • Viridi (Kid Icarus- Not necessarily a :ultpalutena: clone. She would likely operate differently similar to how :ultisabelle: differentiates from :ultvillager:. Sa, I spoke a bit about her in the Smash Ultimate Speculation Discussion thread last year but afterwards learned how little relevance she had but maybe they may rekindle the Kid Icarus franchise in the near-future, who knows?

As Sakurai-san left it up to Nintendo to decide on the DLC I think it stands to reason that they will likely choose first-party characters in general (with Jeanne being a possible exception of course). Thus the reasoning behind my choices. But someone feel free to correct me on something here.

Sayonara :kirby:
 

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I posted this in the roster thread, but I've got a prediction for the DLC characters. I doubt it will be accurate (my track record for predicting Smash Bros. is TERRIBLE), and I'm working under the assumption that Spirits don't confirm that characters won't be DLC (otherwise, basically every single Nintendo character would be ineligible, unless you start digging into fifth-string supporting characters).

Seeing as some of my reasoning is based on the leaked content, I'm going to put my list in a spoiler tag, with another spoiler tag for one bit of information that may or may not be true.

-Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X) - there's a surprising lack of Xenoblade Chronicles content in Smash Ultimate, particularly Xenoblade Chronicles X. Given how quickly the series has expanded since Smash 4, you'd think that they would have gotten a new character, and since the XC2 cast isn't an option, Elma seems like the best choice from X.

-Bandanna Waddle Dee (Kirby) - the character seems popular, especially in Japan, and as of now, Kirby and Zelda seem like the most overdue for a new character. With most of Zelda's main competitors being relegated to assist trophy status, I feel like we're going to get a Kirby character as DLC. Between his player 4 status, popularity, and consistent appearances, I'd say it's time for some DeeLC.

-Geno (Super Mario RPG) - much like all of the other third party Mii costumes, his costume's been removed. Sakurai's gone on record saying that he's wanted this character in Smash since Brawl, and Square-Enix seems like the type of company to say that a fan-favourite character should be saved for DLC so they can get the most money off of it.

-Heihachi (Tekken) - his Mii costume has also been removed. On its own, that wouldn't mean much (it's not like Gilgamesh from Tower of Druaga or Knuckles are going to make it in), but unlike Akira from Virtua Fighter, Heihachi's nowhere to be seen in the game, and with Namco-Bandai working on the game, you'd think that they'd get a second character. The untimely passing of Unsho Ishizuka has me doubting this, but maybe they could use voice clips from Tekken 7, assuming that it isn't seen as disrespectful. (by my understanding, Sonic's voice lines in Smash 4 are reused clips from recent Sonic games)

-Banjo-Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie) - normally, I'd figure that they'd be a pipe dream, and realistically stand no chance whatsoever. However, if the datamining that showed
references to Blast Corps. and Jet Force Gemini
in the game's code is legitimate, then that seems to greatly increase their chances. Why would they reference
two obscure Rare games that are definitely owned by Microsoft in the game's code?
If it's fake, I figure we'd get another third party character, likely from a company that doesn't already have someone in Smash - maybe Rayman, or Travis Touchdown. I'd love to see Doomguy, but that seems rather unlikely
 

TheCJBrine

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uuuum

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1543265314976.webm

thoughts?
its someone playing as master hand on super smash brothers ultimate
I read that it's in World of Light.

edit: however, a 4chan post said you unlock Master Hand on the CSS by collecting every Spirit, and later the OP (supposedly, they're anonymous) said he's only in Stamina mode and he also has his own mode (which, based on what was said, sounds like Multi-Man Smash except you're Master Hand). This is probably false, though.
 
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Midoriki

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Oh gosh if that's an actual game mode or level that would be so fun!

The HUD matches the official Mob Smash images, but the stage and characters don't. Most likely the level is either some harder variant of Mob Smash or from Adventure mode. The characters have a light and dark motif going on so that would match with Adventure mode's themes.

As for the giant Elephant Hand in the room, swapping character IDs to play as Master Hand is such an easy hack that you can do it in vanilla Melee using human inputs. That part could just be a mod, especially since anyone playing a pirated copy probably knows at least a little about how Switch game files work.

Either way I don't expect Master Hand to be a widely playable character. Although if they are they're looking pretty high tier ;)
 

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uuuum

http://i.4cdn.org/v/1543265314976.webm

thoughts?
its someone playing as master hand on super smash brothers ultimate
I already heard of the World of Light bit. This could be just a part from it. Where he fights characters that is controlled by Galleem. That said, I could see him being a unique fighter for Stamina-only Mode. It's important to remember that some characters are mode exclusive in games. While it doesn't happen that often in SSB, it still happens. So it's very believable as a possibility. I'd take it with a grain of salt. Though if it's real, Sakurai will probably mention it on release day or something via the Blog. That, and he wouldn't just ignore this among his actual "reveal all playable characters". Unless he does it within the next two weeks, I'd say it's fake as is. However, him being playable in WoL is a different situation entirely and he wouldn't even be on the CSS if it's a unique event. Hell, it could be some Spirits Mode thing, which is effectively Event Mode).
 

TheCJBrine

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Well, the playable Master Hand thing is real; footage was shared on the Ultimate Discussion thread, although it was World of Light so I don't know if Master Hand is playable outside of that mode or not, and it may just be one level based on what I've read earlier.

Master Hand is tired of being a puppet/clone subject, he's gonna kick punch some evil [censored] and save his challengers >:]
 
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So I looked through the UI Smash dump, couldn't find Mike Jones.
A chance?
Nope. It wasn't released in Japan, and Sakurai doesn't like adding newcomers whose games weren't released worldwide. At least, not anymore.
 
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Well, the playable Master Hand thing is real; footage was shared on the Ultimate Discussion thread, although it was World of Light so I don't know if Master Hand is playable outside of that mode or not, and it may just be one level based on what I've read earlier.

Master Hand is tired of being a puppet/clone subject, he's gonna kick punch some evil [censored] and save his challengers >:]
well there’s a chance we will be playable in stamina mode
 
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Nope. It wasn't released in Japan, and Sakurai doesn't like adding newcomers whose games weren't released worldwide. At least, not anymore.
I think this was always the case, but he didn't know that Fire Emblem wasn't released in America when he added Marth and Roy.
EDIT: That and Startropics is an obscure title even in the countries it was released in. It's entirely possible that Mike Jones was just forgotten.
 
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GoodGrief741

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I think this was always the case, but he didn't know that Fire Emblem wasn't released in America when he added Marth and Roy.
EDIT: That and Startropics is an obscure title even in the countries it was released in. It's entirely possible that Mike Jones was just forgotten.
It got rereleased on the NES Classic in the West, though.
 

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So characters that haven't been deconfirmed via Spirits but have some representation (either through existing franchises, being Nintendo or 3rd-party companies) are whom so far?

Off the top of my head, there's Porky, Phoenix Wright, Mike Jones, and if we stretch to include IPs that once appeared on a Nintendo console, Banjo and Doomguy.
 
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Midoriki

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So characters that haven't been deconfirmed via Spirits but have some representation (either through existing franchises, being Nintendo or 3rd-party companies) are whom so far?
Sylux is another "notable" 1st party without a spirit.

Lots of 3rd parties that have done well on Nintendo systems don't have spirits. Lloyd Irving is a notable example since Nintendo got the rights to make his Mii Fighter costume in Smash 4, but either didn't keep the rights or didn't make a Spirit with them.

Chocobo, Heihachi, Gil, and Jacky also had representation in Smash 4 but didn't get Spirits, but are less tied to Nintendo consoles.
That said I strongly doubt that Spirits de-confirm fighters. We know that fighters can have Spirits, and I doubt Nintendo or Sakurai would avoid picking characters popular enough to warrant Spirits when making their DLC selections. If anything I'd say 1st party characters without Spirits are less likely to become fighters than 1st party characters with Spirits.
 

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That being said, Piranha Plant lacking a Spirit and getting the rights to Rayman and Shantae just for Spirits are not good signs.

Anyway, I have come up with four prediction lists. They're based on if spirits deconfirm and if we're allowed to have third parties or not.
  1. Spirits deconfirm, third party legal
    1. Arle Nadja/Joker (Sega rep is a near lock in these conditions, only question is who)
    2. Banjo and Kazooie/Steve
    3. Dragon Quest character (Slime/Erdrick) [Solely because insiders said so]
    4. Crash Bandicoot
    5. Lloyd Irving/Heihachi
  2. Spirits don't deconfirm, third party legal
    1. Arle/Joker/Tails
    2. Banjo and Kazooie/Steve
    3. Geno
    4. Paper Mario/Elma
    5. Lloyd Irving/Heihachi
  3. Spirits deconfirm, no third parties
    1. Gen 8 Pokémon (likely a starter)
    2. Byleth/Edelgard
    3. Porky Minch
    4. Adeleine
    5. Sylux
  4. Spirits don't deconfirm, no third parties
    1. Paper Mario
    2. Bandana Dee
    3. Elma
    4. Gen 8 Pokémon (likely a starter)
    5. Byleth/Edelgard
I don't believe in locks. However, some of these characters do approach lock level.
 
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Midoriki

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getting the rights to Rayman and Shantae just for Spirits are not good signs.
Good point! I would say Shantae's Spirit might be de-confirmation, but not Rayman's. I guess what matters to me is the question "if this character is going to be a DLC fighter, does Nintendo gain anything by not adding them as a Spirit in the base game?"

For example, Dixie Kong and Tails. It is already known that Nintendo has the rights to depict these characters in Smash Ultimate, so even if they are going to be DLC fighters, Nintendo doesn't gain anything by withholding their Spirits. There is no surprise lost by having them in the base game, so I think they are both still fairly likely to be DLC fighters.

With Shantae however, we didn't know that Nintendo had gotten the rights to use her. If she was going to be a DLC fighter, then Nintendo would have gotten to keep that surprise until her fighter announcement if they didn't add her as a Spirit. So the fact that they didn't mind blowing the surprise on a Spirit makes me think that you're right that it's not a good sign for her being a fighter.

I guess we didn't know for sure that Rayman's trophy in Smash 4 would translate into a Spirit in Ultimate. But if Rayman is going to be a DLC fighter, I don't think Nintendo would see having him as a Spirit as a missed opportunity to surprise us. So maybe Rayman still has a small chance?

An interesting followup is that Dragalia Lost not getting Zethia or "Main Character" as Spirits is quite possibly de-confirmation of them as fighters, despite how much $$$ they could have made Nintendo. No-one would have been surprised that a 1st party game got its cover art characters as Spirits, so I think they are likely in the same boat as Porky and Sylux of not being seen as popular enough to even get Spirits.
 

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The thing that makes me suspicious of Porky and Sylux's absence is that there are even more obscure characters from their series that got made into spirits. Mother has Ness's phone dad, Buzz Buzz, Masked Man, Salsa, and others, while Metroid has literally every other hunter besides Sylux. That's why the "Nintendo forgot to make Porky and Sylux spirits" argument kinda falls flat in my eyes, especially considering how much love Porky's been given in previous smash installments.
 

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Ive said this in another thread but I think the Spirits are irrelevant. What they are probably going to end up doing is that the "Fighter Spirit" for the DLC characters will be just their Smash Ultimate artwork. This bypasses the whole "You can't equip fighter spirits" when the character already has a spirit. So a character having or not having a spirit means nothing. Moreover, I'm pretty sure the DLC is being decided after the Spirits were selected so I don't see it affecting who Nintendo picks. I think we'll know more when PP comes out.

For reference, the reason I say this is Cloud's Fighter Spirit is just his Ultimate artwork
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE!

Jeanne is coming to SNK Heroines, making her eligible as a Smash character! Another whip-sword character is possible! Rejoice!
 

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The Bayonetta character? Wouldn't she be in Bayonetta 2/3? Or is there spoilers for something in Bayonetta 1? Which is available on Wii U, by the way.

Also, hey, we might one day get that Master Chief.

If it isn't the Bayonetta character, might I ask who?
 

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I didn't think she had appeared on a Nintendo system.
She was eligible just by being a Video Game Character.

That's a fan-rule due to a mistranslation. Sakurai never said a Nintendo appearance was required. He simply called it a courtesy(and realistically, it only helps their chances since getting the licensing again is a lot easier when Nintendo and the other company already worked together).

Of course, doesn't mean she was likely to begin with regardless. Likeliness and Eligibility are entirely unrelated.
 
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