Newbie Mafia 7 v1.1! ovah! Mafia Wins!

[Cello_Marl]

@Vanderzant: Give us your thoughts on Ryunnosuke and his views.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Nevermind, it doesn't really matter. I'm cop. I got a guilty result on Vanderzant. With his pushing against Swiss, I'm sure Swiss is town. Isuyaru's thoughts on people's alignments align with my own, big town suggestion right there.

That leaves Vult, Ryunnosuke, and Riddle. Based on Riddle and Vanderzant's reactions to my questioning (especially in how Vanderzant reacted to questions about Riddle), I'm inclined to believe Ryuunosuke is innocent and Riddle is also scum, although I must account for the possibility that I'm wrong about Riddle and Vult may be scum. As long as we lynch Vanderzant, Riddle and Vult, I don't see how we can lose.

Oh, and before scum get it in their heads that I'm lying because I got roleblocked (which I was), Roxy screwed up (again). He gave me the result of my investigation immediately, before he got the roleblocker's target. Since it wasn't my screw-up, I have no compunction against using this information (that, and I was told I could use it).

 

[vanderzant]

@Cello: Firstly, his comments while rather vague, I'm fine with. Next:

but after reading the posts I wanted to point something out that our dearly departed Doctor said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Writer Kupo
The way I see it (or at least first saw it when Cello pointed it out and Roxy first posted in response to it), lynching him right now is semi-justification for his rule breaking.

I'll come out and just say that I've never been a fan of using Night time actions, or the remarks of dead townies as a solid case for evidence. In my first game (for example), I used a similar sort of thing to tunnel rPSI (ended up being town), with the evidence that our Night-Killed cop had openly said that he thought he was scum (and could of thought so because he investigated him!). And it backfired. Also, iirc Swiss (who was scum in that game) killed McFox because it was a good way to set up SSBF for a lynch the next day. Well either that or Town (read: me) just interpreted that SSBF was most likely to night kill McFox, as he'd been riding him all game.

Anyway, tl;dr: trying to interpret why or why not scum killed a player (was it because kupo was suspicious of vult? because he was 2nd last on the wagon?) will ultimately lead to a WIFOM situation,

i.e. Scum killed kupo because he was suspicious of vult, so vult is scum! But that's what scum would want us to think, and they are actually trying to frame vult, therefore ryu (can I call you that?) is scum!

And since town have no clue what's what, quite often scum are able to manipulate the discussion of night kills (if it happens), to use it as evidence, and make sure that innocent townies are lynched.

So when Ryu comes with this discussion of night actions, it instantly throws up alarm bells in my head. Now admittedly, it's quite possible because it's his first game that Ryu would not have a clear grasp of WIFOM (town or scum), so I'm not claiming Ryu to be scum. But it's definitely something to keep in mind.

---

So Cello, the fact that he's come in with strong conviction against Vult (based on some iffy stuff), but will settle for Riddle, is odd. Especially considering I'm looking for scum on the early wagon, yet Ryu had nothing much to say about that.

@Ryu: What do you think of Day 1?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Yeah...now I'm sure Ryu is town. Let's just win this shall we?

 

[vanderzant]

Holy Ninja's batman.

Cello is lieing. I'm town. Don't believe him.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Who ya private messagin' Vand?

 

[vanderzant]

Our game mod. Asking a few questions

 

[Cello_Marl]

'bout what?

 

[vanderzant]

Just making sure Roxy didn't make a mistake. 'cos I'm town.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Why didn't you ask publicly?

 

[vanderzant]

Because I want to confirm with Roxy that he didn't stuff up my role pm (which I'm not allowed to post in the thread obv), or that he gave you the wrong results.

But it's more likely that you're just plain lieing.

 

[Ryunnosuke]

Holy Ninja's batman.

Cello is lieing. I'm town. Don't believe him.

...lol.

What Cello just claimed pretty much explains all of his behavior for me. Good work Cello.

Vote: Vanderzant

 

[vanderzant]

Oh, and before scum get it in their heads that I'm lying because I got roleblocked (which I was), Roxy screwed up (again). He gave me the result of my investigation immediately, before he got the roleblocker's target. Since it wasn't my screw-up, I have no compunction against using this information (that, and I was told I could use it).

My Dearest Townies.

Read the above statement. I understand that it's my word against Cello's, but do you seriously believe that something as far fetched as the above could happen? Seriously, Cello is making all of this up. It's a conspiracy! He's afraid because I nailed him as scum, and he's been milking it as long as he can before someone stepped up to try and lynch him!

Anyway, assuming you all choose to lynch me, which is terrible for town (but not game over). You will obviously need to lynch Cello the next day. Then, after night kills there will be 3 players left, 2 Town 1 scum.

Cello obviously wouldn't be pulling such a stunt (fake claiming cop to get a townie lynched) if he wasn't confident that his scum buddy would prevail in a LYLO situation.

Here are some notes I made:

Spoiler

Votes/Suspicions
Cello_Marl (Vanderzant, Vult)
Swiss (Riddle)
Riddle (Swiss, Cello, Vanderzant, Isu)

Defences
-Swiss doesn't want Cello lynched toDay
-Vult doesn't think Riddle is scummy
-Isu thinks Swiss is town

Now from these, you'll clearly see two sides form, which are:

Cello/Swiss/Isu/Ryu; and
Vult/Riddle

Neither sides seem to suspect each other. Now it's INTERESTING that Cello has chosen Riddle and Vult as the next 2 lynchs after myself. Was he bussing them or are they innocent townies?

You'll also have to consider whether Cello had planned this before the day started or mid way through. Because his scum buddy was probably WELL aware that he was going to do this, so he might of bussed to make him less suspicious in LYLO.

Anyway, I've wrote all this in the event that Town wrongly chooses to lynch me instead of Cello (as well as my timezone causes me to fall asleep in about 4 hours).

So excluding the ridiculous idea that Roxy stuffed up and told Cello I was scum, Cello's is scum and you should definitely lynch him toDay (and if not tomorrow).

 

[vanderzant]

Actually, I've got a question for you Cello. Even though I know you're lying.

Why'd you pick me to investigate?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Vand is right about one thing; it must be either him or me for the lynch toDay. Therefore, my remaining energies will be devoted to discrediting him.

Cello obviously wouldn't be pulling such a stunt (fake claiming cop to get a townie lynched) if he wasn't confident that his scum buddy would prevail in a LYLO situation.

And who would that be? The only person I'd trust to go that far would be Isuyaru, and he knows he's not my partner.

Why'd you pick me to investigate?

Dissonant thought and secret agendas. Basically everything I brought up in-thread.

You'll also have to consider whether Cello had planned this before the day started or mid way through. Because his scum buddy was probably WELL aware that he was going to do this, so he might of bussed to make him less suspicious in LYLO.

This doesn't even make any sense. Let's say I'm scum. Why would I have planned to do this before Day 2 started? Why would I have hammered X-1 without a solid reason (i.e. I'm cop). Claiming cop as scum would be stupidly dangerous until the doctor flipped, and is totally nonviable if the cop exists. You're just scrambling for any reason you can to get me lynched before you.

Actually, that whole section doesn't make any sense. You arbitrarily divided the town for no purpose. What was your point? You say we should consider them, but how and why? You must have been thinking of some reason, but you offer nothing. Like I said, you're just scrambling.

 

[Swiss]

Well seeings as Cello is deffo the cop with a guilty - I see no reason not lynch Vanz.

Would this be the hammer? I'd hate to hammer accidentally again.

 

[vanderzant]

Isu why are you lurking?

Cello, you and I both know that you would of investigated Riddle if you were town. Heck you voted him in your first post.

 

[Swiss]

Cello's doing a good thing here. He can now only be town.

Think about it, he's going to get you (scum) lynched. As he's cop he'll die tonight.

If he doesn't die - he's clearly scum and as such we'll lynch him. But of course no scum would do that.

 

[Isuyaru]

ToDay is proof alone that people generally never get auto-blamed for the lynch of a Townie.

Some meta info: I've read one other game on this site where someone quickhammered a townie on Day 1. The guy who hammered was then the Day 2 lynch (I think the Day 2 lynch was also a quicklynch, but I'm not sure), and was also town.

My point here is that people can get blamed for the lynch of a townie, but it's important to look deeper than that. I'd imagine most players have at the very least been reading Cello's posts with a heightened awareness after that lynch.

Read the above statement. I understand that it's my word against Cello's, but do you seriously believe that something as far fetched as the above could happen? Seriously, Cello is making all of this up. It's a conspiracy! He's afraid because I nailed him as scum, and he's been milking it as long as he can before someone stepped up to try and lynch him!

It wouldn't be the first modding mistake this game (rather, these two games), so it isn't extremely far-fetched.

On the other hand, why would Cello post this as scum? As far as I can tell, all it does is potentially cast doubt on his claim. How does that help him get town to lynch you over him?

Regardless, I'm not a fan of lynching the claimed cop over his claimed guilty in a non-LYLO situation.

Isu why are you lurking?

Been rereading, thinking, writing things down in Notepad.


@Riddle/Vult, who should we look at toMorrow if vand flips scum?

 

[vanderzant]

On the other hand, why would Cello post this as scum?

Because he knows his quick lynch was scummy, and he doesn't want to risk that he'd get lynched toDay. So instead, he's setting up his buddy for a 2 v 1 LYLO.

Cello's doing a good thing here. He can now only be town.

Think about it, he's going to get you (scum) lynched. As he's cop he'll die tonight.

If he doesn't die - he's clearly scum and as such we'll lynch him. But of course no scum would do that.

You guys are going to fall off your chair when I flip town

 

[Isuyaru]

Because he knows his quick lynch was scummy, and he doesn't want to risk that he'd get lynched toDay. So instead, he's setting up his buddy for a 2 v 1 LYLO.

Well, this doesn't answer my question, so I'll rephrase.

This paragraph you quoted:

Oh, and before scum get it in their heads that I'm lying because I got roleblocked (which I was), Roxy screwed up (again). He gave me the result of my investigation immediately, before he got the roleblocker's target. Since it wasn't my screw-up, I have no compunction against using this information (that, and I was told I could use it).

Cello could've completely left it out, and none of us would know he was holding this informaton. Why would he go out of his way to make up this story for us? You've already tried to use it to build doubt against his claim; with that in mind, how does it help him reduce the "risk that he'd get lynched toDay"?

 

[vanderzant]

Because he's evil scum. That's why.

how does it help him reduce the "risk that he'd get lynched toDay"?

He probably realised that he literally had no reason to quick hammer X1 the way he did. So he went and made up this Cop story.

You know, at first I was thinking "wait, maybe the real cop will cc him!" but it wouldn't make sense, because Cello would of learnt that there is no cop in the game by process of elimination (i.e. him and his buddy are probably goons).

Actually that's probably a slight flaw in the set up, because if both scum know they are goons, and they get a doc flip, then they know there is no cop (and can use it to their advantage since Town will be clueless).

Bah, this will all make sense in the end, I'm sure.

 

[Purple]

Votes

Apologies for the late in-page vote count.

Cello_Marl ($$) Vult Redux, Vanderzant
Vult Redux ()
Ryunnosuke ()
Vanderzant($$) Cello_Marl, Ryunnosuke
Swiss ($) Riddle
Isuyaru ()
Riddle ($) Swiss

Not Voting: Isuyaru, ($)



It takes 4/7 to lynch.

​

 

[Riddle]

First of all Unvote, Vote: Vanderzant

If Vanderzant flips scum the main person I want to look at is Isuyaru. The way he is interacting with vanderzant seems like a mafioso knowing his partner is screwed and deciding to save himself and look good.

 

[Swiss]

Take a bow Riddle - you just made your first townie post.

 

[Riddle]

*bo ws*

 

[Cello_Marl]

...wait. I just realized something. We all got a message with a link to the board, right? Well, everyone but Vult. (I can talk about this, I just can't quote it)

Why would this be? It was even sent to Writer Kupo. The only reasonable explanation is that the mod thought the mafia NK was Vult, and sent out a message to the "remaining" players. That means Vult must be town.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Also, with that revelation, it's not necessary for me to lie anymore. I actually investigated Swiss, and for some reason, Roxy wanted me to re-submit my investigation bolded. I was in a pissy mood, so I snapped at him (for which I'm sorry, Roxy, that was mean). He DID apparently give me the un-roleblocked results, but when I noticed there were several messages, including one that mentioned a private blunder, I read that first, and subsequently asked for the roleblocked results. I deleted the original response; I don't mod-know for certain what Swiss's alignment is, but I'm absolutely sure that he's town too.

 

[Ryunnosuke]

Wait wait wait, what you just said is a little confusing. You investigated Swiss, but then investigated Vand? Or did you make up the Vand part? Break that up a bit more for us.

 

[Cello_Marl]

I investigated Swiss, and was role-blocked. I made up the whole Vanderzant thing to get reactions. Rather informative ones, I think.

 

[Ryunnosuke]

It makes no sense to put us through this charade so that you can keep all that "information" that you've collected to yourself, especially since we may lynch your *** for all the trouble. Don't you think you should at least tell us the results of your wonderful strategy?

 

[Cello_Marl]

In all cases, Vult is town, and I believe Isuyaru to be town. This was independent from my ploy, but it's important anyway.

If Vanderzant is scum, Riddle must be his scumpatriot. When he thought he was unrevealed, he opposed Swiss vehemently. I know it's not me (which can now be proven by my lynch, if necessary), and you know it's not you. so who else could it be?

If he's town, then I've screwed up. But I haven't screwed up. I'd stake my reputation on that.

 

[Ryunnosuke]

You're expecting me to believe Vult is town from information I cannot see or confirm, considering I'm a newbie. And even if you believe that Swiss is town and Riddle was scum, it seemed to me that they were OMGUS'ing each other; the votes pretty much showed that. Also, your comment about staking your reputation isn't all that if you end up being scum!

AH, MY BRAIN MEATS!

Still... I'm in favor of lynching Vand, so my vote will remain.

 

[Cello_Marl]

You're expecting me to believe Vult is town from information I cannot see or confirm

You don't have that message, but everyone other than Vult does. Swiss can confirm the recipients, as can Isuyaru. In a way, Vult can too, by virtue of confirming not getting any such message as a group send. As long as a total of three people do so (including me), you can be sure at least one of them is a townie.

Also, Swiss didn't OMGUS-vote Riddle. He voted for Riddle for supporting his bad evidence.

@All: Moar Vand lynch, pl0x.

 

[Swiss]

Good. We can now lynch Vanz, even if our cop didn't investigate him, he's still a confirmed townie.

Unvote Vote Vanz

I'm sorry Vanzy baby :D

 

[Purple]

Votes

Apologies for the late in-page vote count.

Cello_Marl ($$) Vult Redux, Vanderzant
Vult Redux ()
Ryunnosuke ()
Vanderzant($$$$) Cello_Marl, Ryunnosuke, Riddle, Swiss
Swiss ()
Isuyaru ()
Riddle ()

Not Voting: Isuyaru, ($)



It takes 4/7 to lynch.


Vanderzant, The Vanilla Townie, has been sent to the Stress Relieving Room

Night 2 Begins.
​

 

[Ryunnosuke]

Vote: Cello_Marl

 

[Ryunnosuke]

Edit by post: Sorry didn't mean to speak during Night Phase. Won't happen again.

 

[vanderzant]

My heart is broken, bah go Town!

 

[Purple]

Votes


Cello_Marl ()
Ryunnosuke ()
Swiss ()
Isuyaru ()
Riddle ()

Not Voting: Everyone ($$$$$)



It takes 3/5 to lynch.


Vult_Redux, The Vanilla Townie, has been sent to the Stress Relieving Room

Day 3 Begins.

Deadline: 7/6/2010 6:00pm EST
​