Newbie 13: Organization XIII Mafia ~Town Wins!~

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I'm heading to bed. I'll answer questions tomorrow. Looking at this objectively I can understand why I am the main FoS for today. If I die, at least get reads for tomorrow. If I'm lynched before I log in, my primary foses are: Sangfroid & Seikend for scum team.

 

[Gova]

1.) Acrostic (1) Gova
2.) SangfroidWarrior (1) Werekill
4.) Seikend ()
6.) Red Ryu ()
7.) Werekill ()
8.) Zen ()
9.) th3kuzinator ()
Not voting - Acrostic, SW, Seikend, Red Ryu, Zen, Kuz

With 7 playing, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is August 3rd at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I won't bother trying to defend BPC's actions at all, I don't think he ever crumbed cop. I did scumb my result when I admitted trust to Kuzi and Werekill. Kuz was gut, Werekill was me getting the previous cop result.

Just because werekill claimed VT doesn't make him clear in my eyes, and neither does RR's town read of him. A read is different from the person actually saying "I investigated WK and got a town read"



I'm not exactly sure which posts it was but there have been a few of them as of late. It's like, you read through something, post your initial thoughts and then actually think about the meaning behind things. I'll have to go look for them again (I wish I had bookmarked them) but it might be a bit.



It wasn't really getting close to deadline. Two days. Really? And, after like 2 prods I'd expect a replacement, and you expect one immediately. Again, I think that part is just differences in our plays, which makes me not like it. My top scum picks for today, if you are asking for them, (and this is in order of greatest to smallest) is Seikend, Werekill, and you. Besides, it's the throwing around of your vote that gets on my nerves. If you're so paranoid that you have to vote for somebody to make sure you get a true response then you are a fool, my friend. Scum will lie no matter what. You pressuring them like that is just going to make them lie even better. A townie would have no incentive to lie and would, therefore, post the entire truth without you even forcing a push. Switching votes around makes you seem wishy-washy and scummy. If you really think somebody is scum, vote them, and don't change that vote onto somebody you want to pressure. Use FoS or HoS, or just trust that they are going to respond to you if you aren't really suspicious of them but want a response.

Even if this was corrected later, I dislike this post.

Ah I didn't know that.

I'm calling BS on either Acro or RR. At this point, I'm leaning Acro.

Wanna know why?

I'm Number VII Saix, The Luna Diviner, Town Deputy.

Ok makes sense, one of Sang or Acro is scum.

At this point I'm actually more inclined to fos Red Ryu off of tells alone. But going by claim order, then Red Ryu had to just have pulled off the ballsiest gambit and gotten away with it.

I pulled a gambit? No my put myself first because BPC's play looked bad and I recognized I needed to go first.

I have the ability to manipulate time. This ties into me gambling with the life of others.

Say what? Can you elaborate on what you mean by this in terms of your role?

I am not lying. I logged back in to report my role and then call it a night. I'm freaking out a bit that either you or Red Ryu is lying about their claim. Do either of you retract?

I am a cop. I do not deny this.

BPC investigating Werekill seems really genuine to me.

And I really don't think J would screw around with the roles and put a doc/deputy.

The bolded is what I think as well.

Actually you know what, screw you guys. I'm going to re-read both BPC|Red Ryu and SangfroidWarrior. Even though I'm inclined to say that Sangfroid is scum over Ryu. She could still be town as I think we both have similar convictions that Ryu is town atm.

Unvote: SangfroidWarrior

I hate this a lot, this doesn't look like frustrated town. States distrust of me, but then agree with convictions that I am town.

What?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Acrostic is my first pick reading this over, Sang is iffy with me but Acrostic looks fake with stances that aren't taken as pointed out above.

Vote: Acrostic

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Alright, what part of my post do you not like? Becuase there's a lot there.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@RR: Who out of Seikend, Zen, or Me is the Roleblocker?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Okay, I'm putting this out there now as my speculation:

If RR turns up to be scum, I would look at Werekill being as RR gave him a clear. If Acro turns up as scum, I would look at Seikend just because the two of them don't really seem to interact all that much, and because seikend is odd to me in general.

@Acro. Why, out of everybody else, did you decide to protect me? It couldn't have been because of the "crumbs" that I dropped because I said that stuff at the start of D2. Why would you protect me? If I were the Doc, I would have protected somebody that is stronger in the game as town and would help town better.

 

[Xivii]

Acro you should be using this time to convince us you're not scum and convince us of who is.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I know Zen. Thank you for telling me what I should and should not be doing.

 

[Xivii]

No problem man.

Spoiler

Request replacement please~

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Okay, I'm putting this out there now as my speculation: If RR turns up to be scum, I would look at Werekill being as RR gave him a clear.

If RR is scum, then Werekill wouldn't be the partner. The cohesion between the two is horrible and Werekill doubts RR's innocent on him repeatedly. Psychologically speaking, mafia want to appear as town as possible and persuade town to make them believe that they are town. When they are going in for a direct|indirect counterclaim against someone else, the target they choose is usually a townie that can be used as a point of persuasion. Pointing out their own partner is innocent doesn't earn them immediate favortism.

If RR were scum I believe that he would have tried to fake an innocent on Kooz or Zen as they are more influential and it could affect the accuracy of their reads in today's lynch. Werekill doesn't sit that well with town in general, therefore he would be an unfavorable fake pick. More likely than not BPC investigated someone who town found to be questionable and even though he did finish off with saying that Werekill was somewhat town, the Panta flip could have made him have second thoughts.

If Acro turns up as scum, I would look at Seikend just because the two of them don't really seem to interact all that much, and because seikend is odd to me in general.

I believe that Seikend is scum as well. The fact that you connection it to an interaction between me and Seikend makes me believe that when I flip town, the fos will consequently be watered down: the two of them don't interact that much, Acrostic is town, I suppose that the connection was dubious. Fundamentally Seikend was scummy because he didn't take genuine stock in his foses and he didn't seem sincere in pursuing Werekill.

@Acro. Why, out of everybody else, did you decide to protect me? It couldn't have been because of the "crumbs" that I dropped because I said that stuff at the start of D2. Why would you protect me? If I were the Doc, I would have protected somebody that is stronger in the game as town and would help town better.

It wasn't because of the crumbs. My town reads were you and Werekill. I protected you over Werekill because I doubt scum would have targeted Werekill based on him being heavily fossed D1. My assumption is that they would have saved him for tomorrow and hope that town would lynch him. Then there was also the possibility that he was scum, but I didn't see it. I really couldn't link a partner to him based on the events of D1. On the other hand, I could see more reasons for you being killed as many thought you were town. In this game scum would be interested in targeting someone who is collectively|popularly seen as town because they wouldn't be able to place a mislynch on them. So again, I thought about what scum would want to do and decided between who I thought was town, who I wanted to save.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Finished my re-read. Finally gosh that took so long for no reason.

I've come to the concrete conclusion that either RR or Acrostic is lying. I looked and re-looked at Sang's post and there is no doubt in my mind that she's telling the truth. None.

If she's scum then there is nothing else to say than I was completely outplayed. In terms of Acrostic or RR first, I'm leaning Acrostic. Still gonna re-read some important interactions though.

 

[th3kuzinator]

No problem man.

Spoiler

LO L

He got you there.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Alright, seikend, to begin with, is scummy. I'm just talking about him being your scummate if you turn up to be mafia. If you don't, I'm still not taking my suspicion off of him. I was just saying that, if RR turned up mafia, it would look suspicious, but, looking back, I agree it wouldn't automatically incriminate Werekill.

Next, what you say holds true for the first part of the day. Near the end of D1, though, there were some major doubts to me being town; Werekill, also, started seeming more town to people. Using your logic, wouldn't the mafia have wanted to keep me around, being as there could be a possibility that I would make a major goof and have all the attention on me instead of them? And wouldn't they want to get rid of werekill being as werekill was so becoming so powerful and more towny-like that there was really no chance they would let a strong player get even stronger?

@Seikend. Would you mind getting your but back in this game and giving us some thoughts on the current situation? Deadline is tomorrow, if I recall correctly.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Sang: Your jumping to conclusions very quickly, that is what was off putting from that and your recent post. It looks like your trying to discredit anyone who claimed a believable role. Your not even placing anything that makes you believe either role at all.

@It's between you and Zen, and based on some recent posts I think it might be you. You were fishing to see if others would lynch me even with my claim.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I won't bother trying to defend BPC's actions at all, I don't think he ever crumbed cop. I did scumb my result when I admitted trust to Kuzi and Werekill. Kuz was gut, Werekill was me getting the previous cop result.

Out of curiosity, why would you crumb when we are already planning on mass claiming and why would you put your gut over your result. One would believe that a more accurate crumb would be the cop result first and then your gut as the cop result is mod-confirmed information. Kooz pointed this out in BPC's statement that his report was Werekill and his gut was me...

Even if this was corrected later, I dislike this post.

Alright, what part of my post do you not like? Becuase there's a lot there.

Ok makes sense, one of Sang or Acro is scum.

This should have been implicit. Why did you state it?

I pulled a gambit? No my put myself first because BPC's play looked bad and I recognized I needed to go first.

If you believe that BPC's play looked bad, then why didn't you address any of the points behind his play that Kooz pointed out?

Say what? Can you elaborate on what you mean by this in terms of your role?

The ability to manipulate time and me being a gambler aren't directly tied into my ability as a doctor. It looks like background flavor that was given so I knew more about my character.

I hate this a lot, this doesn't look like frustrated town. States distrust of me, but then agree with convictions that I am town.

Let me explain. If Sangfroid is town, then from her point of view she is debating between who is scum between Acrostic|Red Ryu. If I'm town, then from my point of view I'm trying to find out scum between Red Ryu|Sangfroid. If we both go off with the initial assumption that you are town, then that leaves the other person as the scum pick.

I wasn't flustered, I was surprised. I thought your claim was legitimate and I had a town read on Sangfroid. I actually didn't see myself as being convicted of anything yesterday and that's the reason why I unvoted. I was pressured to beleive that Sangfroid was my immediate counter claim by town. And I wasn't able to question you so I threw out an impulsive vote on Sangfroid assuming that the setup wouldn't put a doc|deputy team together. I believe such an assumption is speculative given my mechanics respond the previous night.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I'm not fishing for anything.

I am saying that one of Acrostic or you is scum. And yeah I might try to later lynch you despite your claim because I think Sang is townier than your slot by far.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Sang: Your jumping to conclusions very quickly, that is what was off putting from that and your recent post. It looks like your trying to discredit anyone who claimed a believable role. Your not even placing anything that makes you believe either role at all.

Technically, anything could be a believable role. I've just always been suspicious of Werekill and I admit it was something of a grudge, although not exactly because I wasn't really holding anything against him. More of a "I still can't shake the scummy-ness you had earier on in the game, even if you are acting town now" kind of feeling. I honestly skipped over the part where you first said that werekill was town because it was said nonchallantly.

But, on a side note, what do you think of Seikend? From this, I would believe you to think him completely innocent.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I was just saying that, if RR turned up mafia, it would look suspicious, but, looking back, I agree it wouldn't automatically incriminate Werekill.

Okay good.

Next, what you say holds true for the first part of the day. Near the end of D1, though, there were some major doubts to me being town; Werekill, also, started seeming more town to people. Using your logic, wouldn't the mafia have wanted to keep me around, being as there could be a possibility that I would make a major goof and have all the attention on me instead of them?

No. If I were scum I would have tried killing you N1. The fact that we still believed you even after you lied is indicative of the fact that you are a strong town read to most people.

And wouldn't they want to get rid of werekill being as werekill was so becoming so powerful and more towny-like that there was really no chance they would let a strong player get even stronger?

I believe I was the only person who really had a strong town read on Werekill. I saw her strong pushes as being pro-town in addition to her dedication on her foses. IIRC the only reason why you hopped off of Werekill is because you didn't want to force an NL. However if it wasn't an NL situation then you would have gone ahead with a Werekill lynch.

@Seikend. Would you mind getting your but back in this game and giving us some thoughts on the current situation? Deadline is tomorrow, if I recall correctly.

The fact that the slot plays the same even with respect to a replacement should be indicative that something is going on. Althought Seikend is in another mafia game with me and he hasn't posted in awhile.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Given the lack of material posted today I believe that everyone is more or less settled on today's lynch.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I believe I was the only person who really had a strong town read on Werekill. I saw her strong pushes as being pro-town in addition to her dedication on her foses. IIRC the only reason why you hopped off of Werekill is because you didn't want to force an NL. However if it wasn't an NL situation then you would have gone ahead with a Werekill lynch.

There were others that were starting to change their opinions on werekill as well, like Kuzi. He still voted for werekill, though, because it was his only viable option.

WRT Seikend, I don't think it is. I just want him back here before deadline.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Given the fact that you aren't dead yet, I wouldn't count yourself out. Seriously, fight 'til the last second if you really are town. Look at how well "giving up" (I'm not saying he did, he was just pulling the 'Woe is me' card a lot, much like he is doing in other games because we lynched him in this one) worked for Panta.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Man I want to lynch Red Ryu so bad its not even funny.

 

[th3kuzinator]

His play toDay, certainly for someone who has apparently caught up, does not scream cop at all. Like at allllllllllllllll. So reactionary uhguhguhgughughgughg

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuzi. Explain?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm not fishing for anything.

I am saying that one of Acrostic or you is scum. And yeah I might try to later lynch you despite your claim because I think Sang is townier than your slot by far.

So the mod put a Doc/Deputy together? Right.

Both of their roles are possible with my own, they are not possible with each other so one or the other is scum.

 

[th3kuzinator]

By play RR is definitely the scummiest of the three like not freaking question. I'd be expecting him to be more on top of finding scum as the cop, like reading through the thread and developing many scenarios. I've seen him do it before as cop.

His play, especially with the mass claim, looks so not genuine. For one, as the cop why would he put himself first to claim. Even if he recognized his slot was scummy he should never have wanted to claim first. Ever. I also don't like BPC's supposed Werekill investigation as I think BPC would have investigated one of the ICs or his scumpicks if he was the real cop. Plus he says that killing Werekill would have cleared up a lot of things, implying that Werekill was a controversial alignment, when he himself apparently had an inno on him. Not to mention his analysis of who is scum out of you or Acrostic is pretty bad.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Given the fact that you aren't dead yet, I wouldn't count yourself out. Seriously, fight 'til the last second if you really are town. Look at how well "giving up" (I'm not saying he did, he was just pulling the 'Woe is me' card a lot, much like he is doing in other games because we lynched him in this one) worked for Panta.

I'm not giving up, however I am admitting that I didn't leave crumbs as doc. I sincerely thought that either Kooz or Zen could be mafia and would catch up on it. I didn't see a reason to crumb as I would be killed. I felt that the best thing I could do D1 after replacing for SM was to be active & contribute in order to not claim at an early point in the game. I also understood why Kooz was willing to kind of put immediate trust into Seikend|Werekill as they were already outed as being VTs and he already implied that he was a VT. From his point of view I could see that he was trying to fit his foses with the information that he was given. Zen's doubt of Kooz also makes sense as does his accusation of manipulation. If Zen is really VT then he would be like, "Yo Kooz what are you trying to do." With only 3 VT claims Zen|Kooz's POV makes perfect sense. The only other claim that is left over would be Werekill who in my mind is town so even by PoE that leaves Seikend.

 

[th3kuzinator]

So the mod put a Doc/Deputy together? Right.

Both of their roles are possible with my own, they are not possible with each other so one or the other is scum.

I don't see why that couldn't happen.

It still hypothetically should give town two clears regardless if the prs fit each other.

But continue to defend yourself through the setup, that always helps.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

if rr was scum then that means we have a deputy and a doc.

we either have a cop and a doc or a doc backup.

i trust rr on this one i think i'll be damned if im wrong on that

What happened to this?

That was a huge 180* from before.

 

[th3kuzinator]

What happened to this?

That was a huge 180* from before.

I re-read.

Sue me.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

probability of rr being scum....

hmmmmmmmmmm

zen wutchu think

Then you post this.

Why? Where did this come from?

whyzat seem genuine?

i recall that bpc going into the night phase with a read on werekill that he was "sorta townie"

why would he investigate his sorta townie read.

also i dont think j would have done it either but its in the op so we really cant discount that

This is a complete WIFOM response.

It's assuming what BPC was thinking and trying to outthink him, key thing is, no one not even myself can do that.

However like Zen said, it's pretty dang clear his read made a 180* after N1.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I re-read.

Sue me.

Your change was almost literally posts apart.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

First thing you do when you also think this is ask Zen what he thinks about it? Smells like fishing to me.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Then you post this.

Why? Where did this come from?



This is a complete WIFOM response.

It's assuming what BPC was thinking and trying to outthink him, key thing is, no one not even myself can do that.

However like Zen said, it's pretty dang clear his read made a 180* after N1.

Why are you so focused on my view of your alignment? It's pretty obvious that I'm trying to figure out who's the scum between the three of you and I'm questioning my reads to do that.

You should be focused on finding the scum out of Acro and Sang if you're town, not getting into petty arguments 24 hours before deadline.

 

[th3kuzinator]

First thing you do when you also think this is ask Zen what he thinks about it? Smells like fishing to me.

And you know what this back and forth looks like? You picking petty fights instead of looking at the larger picture.

For the 7th time I was questioning my reads and therefore asking Zen his thoughts on the chances of you being scum.

Curious as to why you're still trying to work this angle.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm already voting on the one I picked.

Now stop dodging my questions and answer them.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I did answer your questions.

And its pretty clear BPC did not make a 180 on Werekill what have you been reading?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

So the mod put a Doc/Deputy together? Right.

Both of their roles are possible with my own, they are not possible with each other so one or the other is scum.

Okay, I'm getting sick and tired of people assuming this. Each combination has the exact same possibility as all of the others. Do not hide behind that excuse.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Everyone: If Acro pops town and I die toNight I urge you to lynch RR over Sang.