New Vids of My Sheik (vs Sliq and RaynEX)

[KirbyKaze]

round 1 - Pokemon Stadium
round 2 - Battlefield
round 4 - Dreamland64
round 5 - Green Greens

round 1 - Yoshi's Story
round 2 - Final Destination

Rate, review, constructive criticism always welcome.

 

[Teczer0]

Wow Kirbykaze O_O I like your sheik a lot

I only watched one of the matches so far though.

How come you began the match using full hop nairs? I prefer using something that takes less time to finish. Fox is too fast of a character to give so much time to.

Also one thing that sheiks love to do is the ledgehop fair. The first time you used it on Raynex(on PS) you got grabbed. If you do use it I think you should fastfall off the edge and do it. That way there is less time to react to whichever option you choose to take (Being grab edge again or land on stage).

If you use it to grab ledge again make sure you are spaced pretty well to do it. And try not using it thinking the spacie is gonna rush into it. It usually doesn't end well for the sheik. Everyone that has an ounce of experience vs sheiks know to watch out for ledgehop fairs.

I love your WD game its fast and lands you lotsa grabs keep that up .

IMO you seemed to be playing a little more impatiently after Raynex got that first kill on you. You kept dash attacking his shield hoping it would hit. You don't need to dash attack to take his stock just wait for your opportunity to setup for a KO.

I think you full hop a lot (for approach/retreat) >_>. SH is better for most situations. If you whiff something and you full hop it gives them a lot of time to ponder what to punish you with.

I saw you use full hop/SH needles after you hit them off the stage. I personally don't use SH/FH needles if my opponent is at mid/high percent unless I think they are going to hug the stage. They tend to fly off too far. At those percents I usually just shoot a single needle(grounded) to make it harder to sweetspot the edge with illusion. If they get hit depending on their distance from the stage I either run off f-air/b-air or throw needles or grab edge and bair.

If they can get around it (Really technical spacies) you have to predict their distance and needle them.

If they start firing ANYWHERE near the stage and you can reach them just jump off f-air. It takes the guess work out and if you SH f-aired (To reach spacies firing from above the stage) you can chase them off and f-air them one more time usually.

I guess I would use Shino stall a bit more. If you can perform it perfectly shino stall when your opponent is too close to the edge shielding. It generally forces a roll or if not they get hit by vanish and if they didn't CC it you can combo off it.

And .. uhh I dunno you're sheik is pretty good

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wow Kirbykaze O_O I like your sheik a lot

Didn't expect that reaction, but yay! ^____^

I only watched one of the matches so far though.

****. Working in chronological order you're probably watching me vs RaynEX on Pokemon where he always ***** me

Spoiler

In hindsight I should have banned it instead of FD since I was playing good on FD that day >___>

How come you began the match using full hop nairs? I prefer using something that takes less time to finish. Fox is too fast of a character to give so much time to.

I find Foxes that are technical and gay like RaynEX enjoy long walks on the beach, cosmopolitans and I saw him use his double jump (on PS match) so I reacted ASAP to try and get free damage. Fair or Uair or SH Fair --> grab would have all been better substitutes in hindsight >__>

Also, I have a fascination with Sheik's Nair. I think it's amazing and stuff. And I tend to overuse it. But I think I will cut back because it keeps getting me punished

Also one thing that sheiks love to do is the ledgehop fair. The first time you used it on Raynex(on PS) you got grabbed. If you do use it I think you should fastfall off the edge and do it. That way there is less time to react to whichever option you choose to take (Being grab edge again or land on stage).

Duly noted. I've been looking for new stuff around the ledge because my ledgegame is very weak IMHO. TYVM ^__^

If you use it to grab ledge again make sure you are spaced pretty well to do it. And try not using it thinking the spacie is gonna rush into it. It usually doesn't end well for the sheik. Everyone that has an ounce of experience vs sheiks know to watch out for ledgehop fairs.

Also noted.

I love your WD game its fast and lands you lotsa grabs keep that up .

Yay.

IMO you seemed to be playing a little more impatiently after Raynex got that first kill on you. You kept dash attacking his shield hoping it would hit. You don't need to dash attack to take his stock just wait for your opportunity to setup for a KO.

Yeah, I got nervous and then started playing worse

I need to work on that conditioning thing where you don't start choking badly after losing the first stock.

I think you full hop a lot (for approach/retreat) >_>. SH is better for most situations. If you whiff something and you full hop it gives them a lot of time to ponder what to punish you with.

Also duly noted. I think full hop stuff is really good on Battlefield and Dreamland and Yoshis tbh, because of the platforms to go to afterwards to get the Fair autocancel, etc and then give time to shield, sidestep, retreat, etc. But on Stadium, FD, and FoD (on some arrangements) I leave myself open a lot. Rewatching PS match I give him a lot of his openings willingly >___>

I saw you use full hop/SH needles after you hit them off the stage. I personally don't use SH/FH needles if my opponent is at mid/high percent, they tend to fly off too far. At those percents I usually just shoot a single needle(grounded) to make it harder to sweetspot the edge with illusion. If they get hit depending on their distance from the stage I either run off f-air/b-air or throw needles or grab edge and bair.

I used to do a grounded single needle and then do stuff but RaynEX never misses his sweetspot when he goes for it

I coudl probably try to trick him by turning around with needle and then canceling the charge asap and then doing something to cover the ledge (sh fair?) but I don't think there would be enough time to edgehog If Vanish can hit below the ledge I'd try that too but there's so much that needs to be tested.

My gimping game is rather limited so I will try those.

If they can get around it (Really technical spacies) you have to predict their distance and needle them.

NVM what I said then.

If they start firing ANYWHERE near the stage and you can reach them just jump off f-air. It takes the guess work out and if you SH f-aired (To reach spacies firing from above the stage) you can chase them off and f-air them one more time usually.

This is why I like Tec0 advice. It's practical.

I guess I would use Shino stall a bit more. If you can perform it perfectly shino stall when your opponent is too close to the edge shielding. It generally forces a roll or if not they get hit by vanish and if they didn't CC it you can combo off it.

Argh I hate shino stalling except to regain invincibility for a ledgedash

But RaynEX picked me to Corneria and Green Greens so I suppose this is acceptable.

And .. uhh I dunno you're sheik is pretty good

Awwww ^____^ [/warm fuzzy]

 

[Teczer0]

I personally don't shino stall too much either anymore. Its gay and it can get you gayed lol.

But I love doing it to people who think I'm going to ledgehop fair. Cuz people who don't usually play me whiff a grab and get vanished .

Right now I need to work on my sheik cuz mine is a little slow and I have trouble doing very easy things thanks to brawl.

I'll try to get vids of me out and have you look at my sheik too

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yes! I want to see recent stuff of your Sheik :D

Then I can further rip styles and stuff from people and try to gay RaynEX harder.

 

[soap]

first against sliq i wouldve just went back to story, or maybe battlefield, u have much less mobility without platforms, jiggs isnt really effected, and it makes it easier for her to edgeguard.

u got gayed the first game cuz u tried to grab, i dont go for grabs so much against jiggs unless they are free, but there is a trick to safeguard yourself against crouch rest. just dont do running jc grabs and u can space the standing grab so that u are far enough away that she cant reach u with rest in time and will have to nair. its situational but something to mess around with, ex. u can walk in grab, or run in wavedash straight down (dash cancels dont eliminate momentum) grab, and mix this up with downtilts spaced really really well.

the rest of the time im not in her face im either shooting needles off plats or spacing bairs on her approach. work on spacing needles better off platforms and shooting more of them i.e u dont always have to follow up the needle with a run off fair, instead run off fastfall dj back and shoot another one and jus wait for a clear opening, or shoot a needle run off waveland back and chill for a second. jiggs has no answer to needles and bairs.

for your edgegame, shinostall more against aggressive edgeguarders like jiggs, she is lookin for low percent cheap kos, this will give u space. last time i played sliq i killed him through the roof with an upb stall, and he ran into it alot.
another ledge "trick" i use is the games ledge jump and hold back, they try to back air u, miss, and u double jump back at em with fair.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You could switch to dash grabs instead of JC grabs, as I think they'll hit a crouching Jigglypuff...

 

[KirbyKaze]

wow, soap, that is a lot of stuff on jigglypuff LOL

i'm definitely going to make note of that ledge stuff, momentum stuff, and needle/platform stuff ^____^

tyvm

 

[Teczer0]

During the crew battle at pound I asked PC for advice vs jiggs and this is pretty much what he told me.

Camp b-airs
Don't grab

.....

lol

Oh and my little trick vs Jigglypuff is to use Upsmash OOS LOL it works and I still get amazed that it does ROFL.

When you see jigglypuff use a move like n-air/f-air on your shield and tries to land behind you so they can't get grabbed Upsmash OOS it does suprisingly well. You can use it if they land slightly ahead of you too I believe its a bit bigger than the grab hitbox.

 

[RaynEX]

David you're getting so much advice. T_T

Complete Video Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5554138#post5554138

 

[soap]

During the crew battle at pound I asked PC for advice vs jiggs and this is pretty much what he told me.

Camp b-airs
Don't grab

.....

lol

Oh and my little trick vs Jigglypuff is to use Upsmash OOS LOL it works and I still get amazed that it does ROFL.

When you see jigglypuff use a move like n-air/f-air on your shield and tries to land behind you so they can't get grabbed Upsmash OOS it does suprisingly well. You can use it if they land slightly ahead of you too I believe its a bit bigger than the grab hitbox.

lol, Pc's advice pretty much sums it up

and i forgot about the usmash oos i use that too, its real good cuz it even hits her crouching. ive ran up to jigglypuffs and just upsmashed them cuz i knew they would be trying to crouch, dont use at low percents, they can CC into rest

and the dash grab thing works with marth, not sheik

 

[RaynEX]

So Sheik shouldn't even bother grabbing? Does this mean you have to depend on hitting random single moves that aren't in a combo?

Can Jiggs crouch under ftilt?

 

[Teczer0]

Hmm kinda in a way.

Sheik can rarely do combos on jigglypuff cuz the moves used to set up combos are usually risky. Like dash attack, f-tilt,d-tilt, etc.

B-air is very safe because even if they CC it they can only really hit us with a random aerial and as long as you L-cancel you can shield it really.

The match is so boring >_> I usually only get KOs through B-airs or F-airs

I think Jiggs can crouch under it not positive though although if they can't they can just CC fsmash us.

 

[soap]

dtilt combos decently, better than ftilt imo
uair/dair combos into a guaranteed second aerial generally, u can jab to dair, it works if they mash nair to combo break
jab to fair is clutch. dthrow does combo really good when u do get grabs.
but i get combos off random stuff, just be quick.

most of the time after a hit u dont have a guaranteed followup but by being quick u can get into a position where they have few options and u can followup, kinda like brawl comboes.

 

[KirbyKaze]

David you're getting so much advice. T_T

Complete Video Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5554138#post5554138

I do this because I hate losing. Even to better people like you. ^____^

I still don't know how to approach you on Pokemon or FD when you're dash dancing and moving really fast but I guess that's when shffling fair and NOT doing the predictable f-tilt that I always do reflexively afterward comes in.

I need more SHFFL Fair and SH in general. T_T

So against Puff basically I avoid grabbing and do Bair when she comes after me and then needles and more Bair. And U-smash out of shield and jab --> Fair out of her medium priority moves (Nair basically) for KOs at higher % or just more Bair.

Sliq told me that Drephen just WDs around while crouched against Puff and then D-tilts into an aerial a lot and just avoids Puff. Anyone vouch for this working?

 

[Teczer0]

Never tried it myself. I mean if thats what Sliq told you I guess its worth a try.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I would try it if I didn't think that Bair and needles was superior in virtually every way.

It might be a good idea on FD though. No platforms reduces my ability to needle safely from the air so yeah.

 

[ArcNatural]

I do this because I hate losing. Even to better people like you. ^____^

I still don't know how to approach you on Pokemon or FD when you're dash dancing and moving really fast but I guess that's when shffling fair and NOT doing the predictable f-tilt that I always do reflexively afterward comes in.

I need more SHFFL Fair and SH in general. T_T

So against Puff basically I avoid grabbing and do Bair when she comes after me and then needles and more Bair. And U-smash out of shield and jab --> Fair out of her medium priority moves (Nair basically) for KOs at higher % or just more Bair.

Sliq told me that Drephen just WDs around while crouched against Puff and then D-tilts into an aerial a lot and just avoids Puff. Anyone vouch for this working?

Nothing that Drephen does is really that viable for other smashers.

 

[RaynEX]

lol it does sound sort of silly.

But Soap said dtilt works pretty well so maybe it isn't so bad?

 

[ArcNatural]

lol it does sound sort of silly.

But Soap said dtilt works pretty well so maybe it isn't so bad?

Not really knocking the tactic, it probably works decently. I'm just saying if you try to copy Drephen's style your probably going to get destroyed. Drephen has one of those styles where it's only going to work for Drephen, lol.

 

[soap]

Sliq told me that Drephen just WDs around while crouched against Puff and then D-tilts into an aerial a lot and just avoids Puff. Anyone vouch for this working?

lol i told him to start dtilting against sliq, he lost the previous two sets to sliq cuz he used to just spam full hop nairs and i was like wtf are you doing, but with dtilt hes never lost to sliq again. but i dont even really use it that much he just basically spams it, thats kinda his style, find a move that works and keep doing it.

dtilt is good cuz u dont always have time to set up shop for bair. U kinda pull a jigglypuff and duck under her stuff, then catch her on the retreat with your foot.

he was losing to jiano, and i was like "spam utilt" and that solved his jiano problem. i swear to god he jus steals my strats and makes them work better than i can, maybe its just a sort of placebo effect im giving him, these strats may be terrible

 

[KirbyKaze]

smash is so complicated.

i can't figure out if i want to spam bair and needles, d-tilt, or them together in moderation.

 

[RaynEX]

While you figure that out...

make sure that when you face me you spam fsmash and down+b only. Actually doing down+b over again while not moving is pure mindgames. You'll win I promise.

 

[KirbyKaze]

if i'm falco that might actually work if we just toss in lasers and dairs LOL

 

[soap]

down b has invincibilty frames....

 

[I.B]

down b is Zelda's best move

 

[KirbyKaze]

I.B knows where it's at.