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New Tier List vs PAL Tier List
- Thread starter Tero.
- Start date
Fuzzyness
The Reality!
DK...
Luigi is definitely up there at high level, but DK :/
Luigi is definitely up there at high level, but DK :/
At least Luigi has always been debatable, but you have to draw the line somewhere. IMO having Luigi in low tier is fine.
Fuzzyness
The Reality!
yeah but its not like luigi has awful matchups >_>
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
As long as fox is above marth or sheik..... i am left with a 
Bullet Bill
Smash Master
it doesn't really matter. The tier list is just grouped to make it more manageable it's not like theres a fine line between mid and low tier
ivootjes(nr18)
Smash Lord
I've got a great idea: Skip low tier and use this time for team pools or the entire singles bracket bo5
Fuzzyness
The Reality!
low tier tourney is johns tourney, low tiers are awesome
VA
Smash Hero
Purely because there are no really talented Luigi players, he was written off years ago and no one in Europe (to my knowledge) took him far. I suppose it's always been ok so why change it now? The popular opinion has all of a sudden become different so we change our ways, but really we would have carried on exactly the same if the final tier list hadn't been posted.
Final tier list is very accurate imo, I desperately want to update PAL tiers.
Many people play a decent Luigi, but most competitive players don't want to use him in a regular tournament. The same goes for a character like DK. The US had a few instances of players using those characters doing well, but they didn't win it big (consistently). I'm guessing Link would be high tier in Japan because of Aniki. People always take potential into account when making a tier list, but results have a big influence. I don't think Luigi's placing would change if we made a new tier list, no one can back that up with European results.
VA
Smash Hero
If KA master came to Europe you'd change it lol. But yet you keep IC's really high on PAL tier despite a complete lack of placings...lol oh well.
Chu Dat has been on top for YEARS, the placings of Bum etc aren't much compared to that. It was shown to everyone that Ice Climbers have lots of potential and we definitely have more IC mains than we have Luigi mains.
VA
Smash Hero
That seems hypocritical, you tell me in the PAL tier list thread that we don't change our tier list based on American tiers, yet claim that IC's placing in our tiers is heavily influenced by theirs. And you just said potential doesn't throw weight, it's placings, you're contradicting yourself a lot here...
Looks like you're linking separate issues.
1. We don't change our tier list just because the Americans have a new one that isn't completely like ours. We change our tier list if we think we need to and if it's feasible. They play a different version of the game and have a different community.
2. Potential has weight, but so do results. We can't ignore that Chu Dat has taken top 3 at many big tournaments for several years, this shows both potential and results at a very extreme level. Ice Climbers are pretty much the same in both versions. I can give you examples of characters like Ganondorf and Mario doing well, but that doesn't lift them above their current position and isn't on the same level as the evidence for Ice Climbers. This also goes for Luigi and DK.
3. Maybe some things WOULD change if we made a tier list now, I'm not argueing that. I just don't think it's worth it at this point. If you want to start a new tier list project, you're free to do so.
4. Tier lists come down to opinion and very few people are consistent when it comes to that. There'll always be stuff you disagree with.
1. We don't change our tier list just because the Americans have a new one that isn't completely like ours. We change our tier list if we think we need to and if it's feasible. They play a different version of the game and have a different community.
2. Potential has weight, but so do results. We can't ignore that Chu Dat has taken top 3 at many big tournaments for several years, this shows both potential and results at a very extreme level. Ice Climbers are pretty much the same in both versions. I can give you examples of characters like Ganondorf and Mario doing well, but that doesn't lift them above their current position and isn't on the same level as the evidence for Ice Climbers. This also goes for Luigi and DK.
3. Maybe some things WOULD change if we made a tier list now, I'm not argueing that. I just don't think it's worth it at this point. If you want to start a new tier list project, you're free to do so.
4. Tier lists come down to opinion and very few people are consistent when it comes to that. There'll always be stuff you disagree with.
VA
Smash Hero
No I suppose your right that it isn't worth it at this point. But I like their list as a final standing, I feel as if ours is a bit outdated and when people come to look it at they'll be questioning why characters hold certain positions. KA master is a perfect example of a ChuDat situation, except he doesn't get to go to as many tournaments as Chu, so is far less represented. I've seen KA Master play in real life and it's absolutely incredible, Luigi remains the same in both versions also, his potential in my eyes in understated greatly by our tier list.
Anyway, as you say, I'm not about to start making my own tier list project as I'm not someone who is recognised by the community as having any level of knowledge in the game (although I'd consider myself not bad lol), I just was hoping we could also get together a final standing tier list for peak meta game. If it's too hard then I'll forget it.
Anyway, as you say, I'm not about to start making my own tier list project as I'm not someone who is recognised by the community as having any level of knowledge in the game (although I'd consider myself not bad lol), I just was hoping we could also get together a final standing tier list for peak meta game. If it's too hard then I'll forget it.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
haha Marcs post are so good, i wanted to answer some things, but Marcs post covered everything up.
Actually it would be a cool thing to have a new version of the pal tier list , considering the evolution of the european community (new active countys like spain, germany, ...) the evolution of the metagame and the new us tier list.
Its a very hard and time-consuming project tho and we would need somebody recognised by the community to run it.
Actually it would be a cool thing to have a new version of the pal tier list , considering the evolution of the european community (new active countys like spain, germany, ...) the evolution of the metagame and the new us tier list.
Its a very hard and time-consuming project tho and we would need somebody recognised by the community to run it.
Koop_88
Smash Journeyman
Somebody, or multiple bodies. Perhaps have some people willing to do it put their names forward and the community can decide who are most fitting.
I'm not a good smasher but I'd still like to see what changes may arise.
I'm not a good smasher but I'd still like to see what changes may arise.
VA
Smash Hero
Could you kiss butt anymore? I'm still right about our tiers needing change, luigi is a drastically under represented character in Europe. ChuDat has repped IC's so much, but I really think you are looking past how good KA master is. Have you seen his set vs hugs? It's brain meltingly good.
Fuzzyness
The Reality!
if you want a UK rep about tiers I'm pretty unbiased and I know my facts =x the doug is..long gone haha
Linkje
Smash Lord
skip low tier for crews -_- that's more fun anyway.
J03
Smash Master
im struggling to see why this thread was made.
All versions of the tier lists have been refined over several years. they ARE accurate. the problem is alot of the better players have moved on from melee so now all the back seat drivers have a shot to hold the steering wheel.
The tier list stays as it is, GERROVVA IT
EDIT: VA your blates right about luigi btw, hes mad underrated imo
All versions of the tier lists have been refined over several years. they ARE accurate. the problem is alot of the better players have moved on from melee so now all the back seat drivers have a shot to hold the steering wheel.
The tier list stays as it is, GERROVVA IT
EDIT: VA your blates right about luigi btw, hes mad underrated imo
grayfox
Smash Champion
Roy should be top tier though he has a 1 hit KO I don't know why you guys think Marth is better he can't even wall jump
Vegard
Smash Lord
milkieee
Smash Journeyman
made my day.
@topic:
I think that results / tournament-placings are based on potential.
There is a countless amount of incredibly good sheiks in europe such as over, amsah, adam, ice, luma etc etc
and guess what, sheik is 1. on euro-tiers !! xD
well this might be not the best example, but I think you guys got my point.
the potential of the different characters has evolved to the peak and tournament results just mirror that imo.
edit:
If don't want to see luigi underrated just start playing luigi at his peak level however you're going to manage that =D