New Technique: Brawl Pivots

[Dakpo]

Hey guys, I've been working on a new technique for a few months and I think I finally have enough information to give a small presentation. This tech actually can make some huge gameplan and style differences including Pivot Down tilts, Infinite Dash Dance length, and new combo strings! Let me know if you have any questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdtWrLSRV7I

 

[ECHOnce]

That just looks downright bizarre, but it's definitely bigger than some little physics/mechanic oddity, like the multitude of PM-specific "tech" that have been cropping up recently. Looking forward to this growing into a staple movement option, even if its use is niche.

 

[Keman]

Being able to approach with crouch for a down tilt to fair with Mario does sound like a nice thought. If only the control scheme / buttons used didn't seem so tricky. I know someone that sets L or R to attack for Dacus use, I guess this will play right into their control scheme.

 

[Manaconda]

I'm at work and could only see the first minute or so of the video without audio, but I swear I do these by accident sometimes when I try to dash dance.

Cool find.

 

[Dakpo]

I'm at work and could only see the first minute or so of the video without audio, but I swear I do these by accident sometimes when I try to dash dance.

Cool find.

You should definitely watch the later portions of the video, the first minute is just a teaser

 

[Phubs]

If you combine this with ledge running its possible to pivot jump off a ledge like a standing RAR

 

[un.dead]

Kinda lame that everyone's gonna start using it imo.

Also @ the butthurt jackss below:
I haven't been on in awhile so I'm not about to make a new post for this. But wavedashing is a bad comparison. A better example would be like say footstools, or m2k's spacie 0-d- something that was unique to only a few people, and now is nothing special.

 

[Kurri ★]

And just like the other ones, it turns mainstream and is not cool anymore. Rip in pasta

What does that mean?

 

[Manaconda]

What does that mean?

Tech is only cool when it's hipster tech.

"I was wavedashing before it was cool, but now the mainstream media ruined it for me. Back to rolling!"

 

[Stryker]

Got any advice for the C-stick input?
Seems like if I use the diagonal notches, I get the smash, or a skid turnaround, and it seems like I need to input just slightly above a diagonal notch in order to get that, which is buttz
Sick find though, if I can find a way to get consistency out of this, I'll use it even if I have to claw

 

[Dakpo]

Got any advice for the C-stick input?
Seems like if I use the diagonal notches, I get the smash, or a skid turnaround, and it seems like I need to input just slightly above a diagonal notch in order to get that, which is buttz
Sick find though, if I can find a way to get consistency out of this, I'll use it even if I have to claw

I claw it, if that makes you feel better

 

[TreK]

Is there a reason to use this over regular empty pivots ?

 

[Nausicaa]

Is there a reason to use this over regular empty pivots ?

That's what I was looking for, and I thiiiiink I get it, but this video was really confusing with the explanation at first.

Here's the part that's worth paying attention to regarding Melee-Pivots vs this.

PM Pivots are tougher to input quickly the Melee-way because they're sensitive in a different way. Pivot T-Tilts take a moment of delay before being initiated for instance, but they're much easier. I can Pivot the Melee pivots in Melee just fine (crouch and all tilts/jab/etc included), but PM everything is slower. There's a bigger lineancy range to get them, but that sacrifices the responsiveness that came with being precise.

AKA, they're difficult to do if you want to be on the fastest frame, but much easier to do if you do them on the slower frames.

1) Melee-style Pivots in PM are tedious to do quickly but WAY easier than everyone seems to imply.
(like seriously they're REALLY easy)

2) This looks like it allows for the fastest-frame Melee-style Pivots basically every time, and just as easy.
(simply conditional with the C-Stick thing)

So I want it for the speed since that's very observably happening in the vid.

@ Dakpo
Is it...
-Hold C-Stick DOWN
-Dash-Dance
-Press DOWN on control stick
-Then U-Tilt
To get the G&W U-Tilt in the vid?
Did I get this part right about inputs? That's what seemed really quickly said in the vid and confusing at that.
I could try, but I have 2 wounded fingers and can't play until they're healed. lol

 

[DrinkingFood]

That's what I was looking for, and I thiiiiink I get it, but this video was really confusing with the explanation at first.

Here's the part that's worth paying attention to regarding Melee-Pivots vs this.

PM Pivots are tougher to input quickly the Melee-way because they're sensitive in a different way. Pivot T-Tilts take a moment of delay before being initiated for instance, but they're much easier. I can Pivot the Melee pivots in Melee just fine (crouch and all tilts/jab/etc included), but PM everything is slower. There's a bigger lineancy range to get them, but that sacrifices the responsiveness that came with being precise.

AKA, they're difficult to do if you want to be on the fastest frame, but much easier to do if you do them on the slower frames.

1) Melee-style Pivots in PM are tedious to do quickly but WAY easier than everyone seems to imply.
(like seriously they're REALLY easy)

2) This looks like it allows for the fastest-frame Melee-style Pivots basically every time, and just as easy.
(simply conditional with the C-Stick thing)

So I want it for the speed since that's very observably happening in the vid.

@ Dakpo
Is it...
-Hold C-Stick DOWN
-Dash-Dance
-Press DOWN on control stick
-Then U-Tilt
To get the G&W U-Tilt in the vid?
Did I get this part right about inputs? That's what seemed really quickly said in the vid and confusing at that.
I could try, but I have 2 wounded fingers and can't play until they're healed. lol

no
you hold A
press diagonally back during your dash
utilt manually



Also, idk why people are freaking out about this. These are normal tilt pivots, just done with the cstick. You can do the same thing with just a soft press on the control stick backwards during a dash (except for the infinite DD which does require a very awkward input using just the control stick). It wastes a button and is easier to mess up/cause other issues because you either have to a) keep your thumb on the cstick at all times to get the precise angle required every time, restricting your usage of other buttons on the right side of the controller or b) keep your thumb on the face buttons, then move quickly to the cstick and hit the correct angle, which is really slow, and the faster you try to go, the less likely you'll get the correct angle, even if practiced.

 

[Dakpo]

no
you hold A
press diagonally back during your dash
utilt manually

*Diagonally back on the C-stick during your dash

Also, idk why people are freaking out about this. These are normal tilt pivots, just done with the cstick. You can do the same thing with just a soft press on the control stick backwards during a dash (except for the infinite DD which does require a very awkward input using just the control stick).

I dont think you fully grasp what is happening, because this is definitely worth freaking out over. Do you realize that we can now do pivots with an extremely constant success rate? PIvot Down Tilts are now humanly possible.

It wastes a button and is easier to mess up/cause other issues because you either have to a) keep your thumb on the cstick at all times to get the precise angle required every time, restricting your usage of other buttons on the right side of the controller or b) keep your thumb on the face buttons, then move quickly to the cstick and hit the correct angle, which is really slow, and the faster you try to go, the less likely you'll get the correct angle, even if practiced.

Bruh.....are you really complaining about how hard it is to move your thumb to the Cstick? now im 100% sure you have no idea what this is or how to apply it. You can set up into this hand position during the lag of anything (preferably a wavedash). This is just a muscle memory thing. This is not an extremely difficult angle to hit, it just takes practice. I think there is a little confusion on how soon you usually use this tech after moving your hand into claw or holding a shoulder attack button. Once you get into position, you usually start to dash dance to catch an opponent with a pivot attack of some type.
Also, setting a shoulder button to attack is not a "waste" because we dont need both shoulder buttons. It's actually more "optimal" than the default controls....literally the opposite of wasting a button.

 

[Nausicaa]

So hold A after using an aerial for example
DD
Diagonal behind and down on C-Stick
input action

ta-dah?

I claw so this will be easy mechanically, just take a bit to get used to if I bother.

Similar to Light-Shielding with Z in Melee.
Hold A, DD, Z to PS
Get double the frames to get the PS with that than normal ways.

PIvot Down Tilts are now humanly possible.

I do them blind-folded in both Melee and PM

Pivot Crouch is a tough one. Easy in PM, Melee it's probably easier using the weird flicking technique that I've never bothered with.

I'll give this a go.

 

[Dakpo]

So hold A after using an aerial for example
DD
Diagonal behind and down on C-Stick
input action

ta-dah?

Diagonal behind and upward* on the C-stick. Then ta-dah!

I do them blind-folded in both Melee and PM

what a beast

 

[PlateProp]

You can just set L to attack and do this without having to claw.

I wish we could have tilts set to cstick already, that would make stuff like this easier

 

[Dakpo]

You can just set L to attack and do this without having to claw.

I wish we could have tilts set to cstick already, that would make stuff like this easier

I was actually going to use a clip of our set in the demonstration video

 

[PlateProp]

I was actually going to use a clip of our set in the demonstration video

One of the squirtle guys noticed you do it with gnw in that set on one of your dtilts and then wouldnt listen when I tried to tell him how to do it xD