new tech?

weslo

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 14, 2008
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#1
ok. so i don't think this is actually new. i think i saw something similar in a video a long time ago. but in the event it already exists. i've done a lot more exploration on it. for Luigi at least. not really sure what to call it so i just called it a non impact land.

here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t94_pKNm4k

first of all, a regular drop through a platform takes 3 frames. from here, if you drop 18-20 frames then jump, Luigi just sorta lands on the platform. there's a 3 frame window to do this. those frames, no matter which frame you jump on, you land on the ninth frame after the double jump.

you can drop through the platform at an angle. but if you choose too steep of an angle on the drop, it could result in not landing. i'd recommend keeping the joystick at an angle favoring the direction down, at least until after the jump.

note: if you drop at an angle, you have to jump on frame 19-20. 18 you won't land.

aerials appear to be the main attraction to this. the nair is pretty full-proof. all you have to do is learn the timing of the l cancel. it's pretty abrupt and hard to tell when you're actually going to be landing the move. it's pretttttty fast. at least for a Luigi aerial. the real attraction is, if you manage to hit it, you can l cancel it a frame after it connects. so they aren't very likely to finish up with their lag before you are. especially at higher damages. some damages, even with di, you have the time to combo into pretty much anything. maybe even a shoryuken? i haven't used it on someone who di's. so it's hard to know what all it would combo into. the fair, the bair, and the uair are all possible. but a bit harder. if you time it to early or space it wrong, the attack might hit the opponent to early. and **** up your landing. feel free to play around with it. there's no real frame data to give. sense it deals mainly with spacing, and the timing is different every time. the dair is in fact not a possibility. it just can't come out in the frame window you have. not even with frame perfect timing.

along with dropping through at an angle, it is very possible to pop up through on the other side, and down smash them the very frame you land. it looks slow in the video, but that was my fault. it can be done faster. but the dvd recorder i was using gave me buttloads of lag.

this really isn't the most useful tech in the world. not even close. but for luigi it really isn't a bad option in some situations. and if you connect, a nair can offer a pretty hefty reward.

note: sorry about any typographical errors... **** spelling.
 

Winston

Smash Master
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#2
Well, if you're already on the platform, wouldn't platform cancel nair be strictly better?

If it's for attacking onto the platform for below, I don't think it'd be useful because I don't know of any of the platforms on any neutral stages that are the right height for using this efficiently. If you know of some though feel free to correct me.
 

Strong Bad

行くぜ!
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#3
If you are detected as "landing" during any jump animation, you skip normal landing (between 2 and 8 frames depending on character) and go to the Wait1 action (standing animation). Try doing a shorthop with Sheik on Pokémon Stadium.
 

weslo

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#4
Well, if you're already on the platform, wouldn't platform cancel nair be strictly better?

If it's for attacking onto the platform for below, I don't think it'd be useful because I don't know of any of the platforms on any neutral stages that are the right height for using this efficiently. If you know of some though feel free to correct me.
yeah. a platform cancel nair would be endlessly better than this. at least in the majority of situations. what i had in mind was more along the lines of if you needed to dodge something you KNEW was coming. then you could just drop though to dodge, then use the nair to hit them, and get back on the platform. the problem here is it takes soooooo long to drop through the platform.

attacking someone below you would make it not even work. for the same reason it's harder to time the bair. so even if there was a stage with platforms at the right height. it would just be a double jump nair.

here's my example scenario thing. imagine fighting s scrubby marth. fsmash fsmash fsmash fsmash fsmash. you're on a platform. drop through. double jump. shoryuken. or a nair. or a downsmash. there are better things to do yeah. but it's something interesting to hit.

there's also the possibility of making someone think you're dropping to the ground. then suddenly being back on the platform.
 

BluEG

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 25, 2012
Messages
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#5
lol. this is a mind****, gonna mess around with it.

Up-throw / Utilt to a platform then hop up to join em, do this then instagrab.
 

BluEG

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#6
So...lets revisit this. Are there any other Luigi's that have explored this technique because I seriously think its quite mind boggling and useful.

What I've been doing is instead of acting out of it, just simply repeatedly do it while on a platform. Since you basically teleport to the platform, you can input another platform drop almost immediately. I observe the opponent and see how they react...usually it baits a move and you can nair/bair or even just DJ WL back on the platform. IDK, I'm just musing around and I haven't quite perfected the timing to use it regularly but its something I'm incorporating and really enjoy.
 
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Verda Stelo

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Feb 2, 2014
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#7
I'm not consistent enough with the timing because I haven't really practiced it but I like nairing out of it. The drop usually gets people to drop their shield or follow you giving you all the opportunities nair usually affords you. If they hold their shield you get pretty good shield stun, possibly even frame advantage, and if they drop through the platform with an attack you might trade with it but most attacks beat nair from the top. More testing and practice is necessary!
 

BluEG

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#8
I really don't think using an aerial with this technique is what its best application is, or even a good option. Just teleporting to the platform and grabbing or smashing is awesome in of itself!
 
Joined
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#9
Like BluEG I mostly like using this to just feign dropping through the platform ie multiple times in succession. I saw Abate end a set with an upsmash he got much quicker due to the Luigi-fast-land (totally calling it that), so the tech has definitely been utilized.
 

Verda Stelo

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#10
I've experimented with it a little bit and written some notes down that I'll organize and post after CEO this weekend (BluEG are you going??)

I like to call it the platform warp. Fast land is pretty cool too.
 

Verda Stelo

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#12
CEO Prologue is this weekend, it's the last big local before the major this summer, Summerfest. I plan to attend that too. Where are you from Griff?
 

Scarlet Bean

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Sep 18, 2013
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#14
It's nice to know that Luigi players are still living
I'm not that devoted into smash anymore,considering how it's hard to enjoy when you've been playing with the same 4 people for the past 7 years
 
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Scarlet Bean

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#16
Travel and network, dude! I had been playing the same cats for a while, but I've been finding a lot of new smashers lately just by hunting for 'em.
I live in the Middle East; the closest smash scene I can get to would take me a 1 hour flight. I'm planning on attending a tourney there next month, though
 

Verda Stelo

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#18
So the timing is pretty easy to get down with just a little practice. It's really trippy to mix up your pace dropping through the platform. The platform warp is a great baiting tool when farther from your opponent and a good, slightly unsafe, mindgame up close. I think it's equally viable to use an aerial during the warp and to attack directly afterward. The application of this technology that I'm going to focus the most on is the platform warp out of shield drop; it requires a bit more precision on the drop input but can produce aMSa-like punishes on hit with the correct application.
 

Zelbertoad

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
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#19
The application of this technology that I'm going to focus the most on is the platform warp out of shield drop; it requires a bit more precision on the drop input but can produce aMSa-like punishes on hit with the correct application.
I was just practicing shield drop and Luigi fast land/platform warp. I'm not sure what to call it. The timing is hard to get down.

I agree that a good use for this is to fake a drop to the stage. Shield drop makes it more convincing.

Which stages do you guys recommend doing this on? Personally, I wouldn't want to do this on YS because the platforms are at a shorter height from the ground compared to other stages.
 

Griffard

Smash Ace
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#20
I prefer doing it from top platforms as a drop through fake out. I actually like Yoshi's Story for it more than the other 3 plat stages, since the sizes are smaller the fake out has more power in my opinion.
 

Zelbertoad

Smash Cadet
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Jun 13, 2013
Messages
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#21
About using this tech as a fake out for dropping to the stage, would this application be more useful to use offensively or defensively?

What I mean by offensively is that you are on a platform and your opponent is in the air. You then just follow up with the platform warp and an attack.

What I mean by defensively is that you are on the platform and your opponent is below you on the stage.You just trick them with platform warp and waveland to other platforms and make your way back to the neutral game.
 

schmooblidon

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Feb 18, 2014
Messages
491
#24
Hey guys, I've been messing around with the Mario bros a lot recently and this tech works for all of them. It's to do with the Environment Collision Boxes (ECB) and how they change during their double jumps. They all have a the same special property where on Frame 10 the ECB moves downward. So if you double jump through a platform and space it so on Frame 9 your ECB is above the platform then on Frame 10, the ECB moves downward and connects with the platform, you will trigger landing.

Here is Doc doing the tech (just focus on the white outline diamond):

and here is the same timing but away from the platform to emphasize the ECB movement

Doc and Mario's warp is frame perfect. Luigi has a 3 frame window, because when he drops from a platform his ECB becomes considerably smaller and thus on frame 10, the ECB moves downward more (because really it's just readjusting itself to a set size).

You can do the tech from a double jump from falling without having to drop through a platform. But you must perform an up aerial (required to shrink the ECB enough) and it's frame perfect. If you would like to try this, then on yoshis under the lower platform on the flat part of the ground, short hop and on the 40th frame airbourne double jump, then up-air on the 5th frame of double jump. The move will cancel on the second hitbox frame. There are most definitely many other more beneficial setups. Obviously pretty tas-like but it's kinda interesting.
 
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