NEW SCOTU VIDS - Need Help w/ Mindgames

[SCOTU]

I've got some tech. skill (as much as i'll need for any mindgame), but lack in the mindgames area
Comments appreciated

Tournament final match
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3838345332704811634&hl=en

This guy (bigy / alcoady) can clearly out think me and punish the crap out of me. Just need help mixing things up.

===New Vids===

some new vids from a "smashfest" on 5/27/07:

All Matches (list should be complete by 5/29/07)

Highlights:
scotu (fox) vs Randizzle (marth)
scotu (fox) vs randizzle (marth)
scotu (fox) vs randizzle (sheik)

scotu (fox) vs anther (pikachu)
scotu (fox) vs anther (falco)

 

[SilentFox12345]

Learn to sweetspot REALLY well. Grab a LOT more. You don't always have to be offensive, just stay put and freak your opponent out, fire a few lasers here and there. Don't spot dodge or air dodge as much, I had that same problem. Overall I think you have a good enough technical Fox to be able to try many approaches.

 

[Deleted member]

tooo predictable. learn to lay back alot

also, some of us marths have the ability to figure foxes out quickly.common

 

[Col Bol]

I only watched the first match...very impressive Fox. Looked overall pretty decent. It's okay to dash attack here and there, but you also need to follow it up with a different move (I saw a perfectly good opportunity for an up-air after one of your dash attacks, but you just dash-attacked again). Up-tilt after n-air is very, very useful for comboing the **** out of them. I'm not the best at giving advice, so I'm just gonna stop talking. Good job! >_>

 

[Grand Mango]

My advice is to slow down your fingers, not literally though, keep playing as fast as you do. Speed can make an opponent freeze because they can't process all that information, but slow down your fingers and think before you take a course of action. If you have friendlies with anyone, you should definitely start looking at will work and what doesn't.

The simplest example can be say they miss a tech and you are standing right next to them, they have four options of getting up, one with an attack, two with a roll left/right, and another one with just getting right up. The best way to "counter" all of this is to dash dance and wait for them to take action, if they miss getting up with an attack, you can dash in for the grab, likewise for rolling left or right (depending on where you stand, they almost have a 75% chance of getting grabbed again) or just getting up.

Another example is say you throw in a simple jab or multiple jabs and you know they will either try to just shield, spot dodge, or roll left or right. If they roll behind you, you can fsmash them, or if they spot dodge you can try to sneak a quick attack in because there is some lag time that you need to recover yourself.

These are just things that you should look for, there's tons of other things that you should try to look at while playing friendlies and apply them to tournaments, most of us are still in this stage of getting better.

After finishing the videos, I'm going to add in that he's putting you into situations to his advantage, notice those situations he puts you in and try to fool him into thinking that he is putting you into a situation where he thinks he's at an advantage but he isn't since you know that he's putting you into that situation and figure out a way to counter it.

Yes what I just said is hard to understand but I think it makes sense and try to absorb what it means.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

You put yourself in a lot of bad situations. IMO, you shouldn't have won that match, but Marth wasn't good enough at punishing you. Keep your distance, slow down. Strike when they will not expect it.

 

[xelad1]

I only watched the first match so I'll give commentary on what I saw. You have a very predictable pattern you don't "dance" enough (so to speak) for a fox player. Pretty much everything was offensive you spent a lot of time running and doing a shffled nair or going for a grab etc, without trying to find an opening for it... you kind of just rush into things head first and get f smashed for it or something.

You need to work on your grabgame/dash dance game more. Dash dancing well is essential to a good fox's game as are his grabs. Dash dancing will help you alot with mind games and fakeouts, he won't know what to predict. One time you'll dash dance and jump in for an attack, next time you'll dash dance and retreat, it will become harder for him to predict what you are doing. Watch some videos of good pro fox's, captain falcons, and marths just to get an idea of how effectively they use dash dancing to set up for grabs and the like.

Also I saw this silly combo you kept trying to pull off a lot of the time the marth would land on the platform above you you would jump and try to dair him... when hes up there your best option would probably be uair or bair... work on getting the marth off the stage, and keeping him off. All in all your tech skill is good, you just need to work on manuevering more, fox has a LOT of mobility, especially on platformed stages so use that to your advantage... and i reiterate watching how pros move around the stage, how to dash dance for fakeouts can really help you get a clear picture of mindgames... also the pros know how to do what gets them to win, you rarely see them go for fancy combos if they are going to screw it up.

Edit: I watched the other matches with falco.... its obvious to me you are just too predictable, maybe from practicing tech skill against pcs too much or something? Because to be quite frank you should have destroyed his falco it was pretty awful or at least the way he used falco..., I rarely saw any use of lasers or shine combos from him which could have messed you up way more....

 

[SCOTU]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll need to work on being less predictable and utilizing mobility to cause openings. And yeah, i do need to realize the bad situations he's putting me in...

 

[Randizzle]

scotu, you've changed quite a bit since that tourney. i think your more recent matches might give you better feedback.

 

[Driz]

from watching that video I noticed you were somewhat predictable with your returns, work on mixing it up aiming for the top platform or trying to sweetspot the edge instead of phantasm to a low platform where Math can still hit you. Also work on your edge game once your on the edge and just stopping the marth from coming back too easily. I don't main fox anymore so sorry if I can't give anygood suggestions for edgegaurding a marth but grabbing the ledge with a quick bair when hes close enough might work just be careful ofa quick up+b.

 

[Tundravalco]

im at about the same place you are so everyone keep contributing ^^ i need some help too.

 

[RedYoshi92]

Great Fox scotu.work on sweet spotting edge more and mixing up your recovery pattern.But I'm pretty sure you've gotten better since

 

[takieddine]

Its rediculous how much that falco is like the one I play here. So i can feel your pain .

First off, learn to powershield consistently, you'll find this helpful when you mix powershielding into an offensive tactic.

secondly, learn to dashdance and predict to which way the falco will roll/tech so you'd grab. Dont hesitate to chaingrab. Most importantly you'd have to wait for
those side steps (ground dodge) since I saw the falco abusing them.

Some of the combo potential that fox has you werent using, like the thunder's combo, and chaingrabbing etc.

Remember to always keep your offense game up, if you play defensive against a falco, you'll get beat up.

Also edgeguarding , off the stage.

 

[SCOTU]

Thanks everyone, i hope to get some newer vids up soon, and yeah, i definately wasn't abusing comboing that match. But thank you all for the help

 

[NES n00b]

Well, even though I am not that great I will do my best.

1. Everytime the match started you started with a grap to upthrow to upsmash/upair. Mix up what you are going to do in the beginning no matter how good that those beginning upair/upsmashes are. That leads me to my second point.

2. You almost always did an shffled nair to shine as an approach (and almost always with a wavedash backwards). Even though that is a great approach, try using full hoped nair fastfalled, dairs at different heights, and falling upairs). The approaches I gave are not the best approaches, but they add to the mix up to keep the opponent guessing. You also tended to grab Marth too little and Falco too much. You did better at the end of the Marth match to grab him more but work on that. With Falco, grabs are good, but you definitely need to mix up the approach as you always ran foward to grab.

3. Try different moving techniques besides one wavedash back. Use dashdancing, pulsewalking, and foxtrotting and always make sure that your opponent does not know what you are going to do out of those tricks. Also do them at different lengths, too (nothing too long though or you will get punished, just do from 1-3 or something like that). Heck maybe throw in a waveland or two. You can also do empty short hops to make opponents think you are attacking and then punish them for their lag. Make sure to also do just plain old jumping at him at different heights to keep guessing.

4. You do not always have to approach him. Dash dance camping and laser spam camping are good alternatives. Waveland and move across the platforms sometimes (platform camp), but don not stay up there too long or you WILL be punished bad. Make sure to switch styles every so often to confuse him. More sheild grabs (for Marth at least). I saw you try a sheild grab in the middle of the game for a long time but that was an exception (and got predictable :/)

5. Where are the jabs? I did not see many (if any) jabs. Jabs are your friend because the can be used to keep the opponent in his sheild or to keep the opponent away from you after a whiffed attack (Azen's falco does this all the time). Jabs also lead to grabs (which then go to upair) and upsmashes. I do not think I saw thunder combos anywhere neither.

6. I would suggest using more edgehopped bairs to edgeguard. Why did you not shine spike Falco while he was doing the firebird? Anyways, start shinespiking when he starts firebird. In addition, if he is using illusion, I would suggest doing a downsmash if you think he did not perfectly sweetspot the the ledge (even his head is a little bit above, he will get hit).

7. Miscellaneous: You're techchasing is good, but I would suggest working on it a little. I like doing upsmash to techchase sometimes so maybe you can do some of that. Also, spacing with bairs is good along with hitting people behind you while they are chasing you.

I hope my advice helped because I took alot of timing writing it and watching that video. I had to watch some parts multiple times. I also gave tips on other stuff besides mindgames.

If you think I am wrong in anyway, I maybe because I am not that great anyways. Please give feedback on my tips as I plan to help more people. Just something short no detailed stuff like I gave lol.

 

[Shai Hulud]

You play a lot like I do. Very technical and overly aggressive. It seemed to me that in the Marth matchup you were paying attention to what Fox was doing instead of what Marth was doing, whereas the Marth was paying more attention to you. You can APPEAR aggressive without actually being aggressive, by doing a lot of dash-dance camping and generally faking out the Marth. Then once you see an opening attack with full force. This is what I've been working on with my Fox, anyway--alternating between defensive/offensive without ever looking defensive. Keeps your opponent guessing that way.

 

[SCOTU]

NES n00b: thanks a lot, that was some of the most informative fully detailed personalized suggestions i have ever received. I really appreciate your time commitment, and will keep your suggestions in mind while playing tomorrow at a smashfest. Hopefully, i'll get some vids from there, and post them up too, so you can see how i've been playing more recently. Sorry i'm not to thorough in my response, it's kinda late and just got back from seeing pirates of the Caribbean.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I'll try to make this short and sweet:

1.Take advantage of the fact that Fox can Manuever around the stage like water.Use your surroundings to the fullest advantage possible.

2.Unpredictable moving patters are easy with Fox because of his blinding speed.Be fast and spontaneous,but don't lose your control.

3.On platforms you can run off with an FF'd aerial attack(Bair mostly) just incase your opponent tries to close in on you.

Everything else was preety much mentioned,so good luck.

*Throws kid into Volcanoe*

 

[NES n00b]

NES n00b: thanks a lot, that was some of the most informative fully detailed personalized suggestions i have ever received. I really appreciate your time commitment, and will keep your suggestions in mind while playing tomorrow at a smashfest. Hopefully, i'll get some vids from there, and post them up too, so you can see how i've been playing more recently. Sorry i'm not to thorough in my response, it's kinda late and just got back from seeing pirates of the Caribbean.

No, problem. Thanks for the compliments. I really did hope it helped. :D

I'll try to make this short and sweet:

1.Take advantage of the fact that Fox can Manuever around the stage like water.Use your surroundings to the fullest advantage possible.

2.Unpredictable moving patters are easy with Fox because of his blinding speed.Be fast and spontaneous,but don't lose your control.

3.On platforms you can run off with an FF'd aerial attack(Bair mostly) just incase your opponent tries to close in on you.

Everything else was preety much mentioned,so good luck.

*Throws kid into Volcanoe*

Throwing kids in a volcanoe is the way to be. *Throws kid in volcanoe*

 

[SCOTU]

great timings on suggestions guys, cause i have the first big smash event in like a month today, so i'll be sure to try this stuff out. Oh, and volcano is spelled w/ no 'e' at the end, but it sounds like a good strategy. Thanks again.

 

[NES n00b]

great timings on suggestions guys, cause i have the first big smash event in like a month today, so i'll be sure to try this stuff out. Oh, and volcano is spelled w/ no 'e' at the end, but it sounds like a good strategy. Thanks again.

I know. I seriously do not know why I put the e in volcano everytime I type. Good luck in the smash event. :D

 

[Silent Wolf]

Practice vs people. Get used to numerous situations. So you know what to do in them.
Mindgames = knowing your opponent.

 

[SCOTU]

some new vids from a "smashfest" on 5/27/07:

All Matches (list should be complete by 5/29/07)

Highlights:
scotu (fox) vs Randizzle (marth)
scotu (fox) vs randizzle (marth)
scotu (fox) vs randizzle (sheik)

scotu (fox) vs anther (pikachu)
scotu (fox) vs anther (falco)

Thanks for everyone's help & tips.

 

[Randizzle]

Your fox was playing a lot better the last few days. I just wish my marth having such a bad day when we were recording yesterday.

 

[burningherbs]

Hey Scotu, nice technique. I think you were great at punishing your opponent once you landed a hit. But it seems like you have trouble getting a hit in. It seems like you almost expect your opponent to behave in certain ways, but what you plan for them is really obvious and easy to avoid. For example, I saw you full jump, then double jump toward your opponent with your back to them to land a bair. I hope this helps.

 

[Anther]

Yeah, I have to say you def pay a lot more attention to the match a lot more than you were at times past :B.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

Good fox, i liked the use of the shine from uthrow off the edge. You coulda shined the falco from >B tons, or punished in some way. I myself am a Michigan smasher, maybe we'll play tourney style some day. =p

 

[x4FoSho4x]

slow down and think. i used to have this problem but playing with foward mad crazy got me out of it. lol.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

You know... i just noticed that you could have won the final match much earlier if you had only dthrown him when he was off the edge at BF.

 

[FastFox]

People really, really need to understand that mindgames are a personal entity. We can't help you with them. They develop with time along with yourself.

 

[NES n00b]

Wow did you improve!!! Did you eat your wheaties, read all the advice on the board, and go study with monks that are good with this game or what?!!!??

Bad jokes aside you have definitely improved. Very few things to talk about this time.

I believe drill to shine to upthrow or upsmash are more reliable than nair or fair which you tried on Marth and Sheik. Maybe you were going for something else, but these followups are very reliable and rake heavy damage.

You seemed to grab too much, now. I think it will pass with just playing more and getting to terms with your new style (Like the new style by the way).

All I can say now is that you have a very good foundation so keep testing things out to see if they work. Play more people and you will have feel of what to do and when. Glad to see the improvement. :D

 

[SCOTU]

thanks again, and @ FastFox: i know mindgames are a personal thing that need to be developed by oneself, but others can help, by pointing out habits and bad patterns that need braking.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

I like your later vids a lot better, it seemed as though you were using fox's speed to more of it's potential. We might have to do a few friendly mms if youre up for the challenge.

 

[SCOTU]

You going to Zelow's on sunday, might take you up on your offer.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

Zelow's? idk if i can make sunday, but ill be at the sf smashtacular.

 

[SCOTU]

k, i think i'm going to that, but i might go to GR instead.