New PK Fire technique?

[Earthbound360]

Im not sure how to do it, but it just happens sometimes. I think some of you may have seen it before.

Now, before I say it, please, do NOT flame me if this is old.

Shorthopped horizintal PK Fire (SHHPKF): Basically, you short hop and time a PK fire use so that it comes out near the point when you land. If done right, Ness will lad and shoot it HORIZONTALLY at the same time. Im not sure about the timing or if the ground or hop momentum has anything to do with this. Ive done it about 5 times. But if we DO master this somehow, it'll give Lucas' PK fire a run for its money.

Some things I HAVE noticed.

It is possible with a momentumless short hop.
It is possible to do on any flat surface.
It SEEMS easier to do with momentum.
It SEEMS easier to do when you approach a ledge (as if the teeter animation is causing it, but I dunno cuz Ive done it on the center of FD once.)

If this is new, I'll try to get a vid of it. I need some input first. I dun wanna make a vid of something old.

EDIT: Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBA6pm65dmI

 

[Aevin]

So, it's like you start in mid-air, but land before the firing animation finishes so it goes horizontal?

 

[thesage]

maybe this is what's supposed to happen in melee when half the lag of pk fire is cancelled when u land it on certain frames?

Or it's probably just that the game reads as Ness being on the ground so it shoots out the pk fire horizontally.

 

[N.OW]

Yeah i have done this technique a few times. You have to try and do pkfire at the last possible moment before landing, but still soon enough to where it comes out. I was trying to find a way to do it consistently, but i couldn't get it down. You have to time the pk fire perfectly, and there may be other factors too.

 

[DiasFlac]

gave it a try and I think I done it right. You still get the landing lag after its done tho. (is that supposed to happen?)

 

[Forsworn]

I was able to do it 3 or 4 times consistently at one point when I tested it. It worked even a couple of steps before the ledge, too.

- Stand at or near the ledge (not sure if I did some jumping forward/backward to land at/near the ledge)
- Short-hop straight up, until you reach the peak of the jump
- As you're coming down, start the PK Fire after the first quarter of the fall is over

Edit: I wasn't able to do it on the non-ledge flat surface parts of Final Destination and Smashville, it only worked on or a couple of steps from the ledge.

 

[Tyr_03]

I don't know if this has anything to do with this but if you run toward a ledge of a stage or platform and use PK Fire just as you're about to leave the edge Ness yells PK Fire but doesn't do the move. Kind of entertaining.

 

[PK Starstorm]

Can someone do a video. plz. I'd like to see what your talking about.

 

[Earthbound360]

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBA6pm65dmI
Update in first post

 

[Conda]

Why doesn't this work on flat ground?

 

[Earthbound360]

I think it does, its just harder. I coulda sworn I did it on Sandbag in practice mode right in the middle of the field.

Im gonna dig deeper into this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[psyNess]

It looks to me that the pk fire goes diagonal first *then* goes horizontal which may explain it harder doing on flat surface. The ground could easily be eating the pk fire as it turns horizontal leaving you a smaller window (or no window?) to do it.

Anyway, as far as I can tell, trying to pause-rewind on youtube the pk fire is at the same height as ness' platform if not lower while it moves towards wolf.

yes? no? Its been a long day I might just have tired eyes.

 

[Kirby Gotenks absorbed]

What's so great about this?

 

[3GOD]

It looks to me that the pk fire goes diagonal first *then* goes horizontal which may explain it harder doing on flat surface. The ground could easily be eating the pk fire as it turns horizontal leaving you a smaller window (or no window?) to do it.

Anyway, as far as I can tell, trying to pause-rewind on youtube the pk fire is at the same height as ness' platform if not lower while it moves towards wolf.

yes? no? Its been a long day I might just have tired eyes.

I think you are correct. In all my attempts, I've only been able to do this at an edge or VERY near an edge, and the PK Fire appears to be level with or lower than the surface on which Ness was standing.

If this is the case, then the ground would, as you've suggested, "eat" the PK Fire when attempting it on a level surface. I am going to test this out on a sloped surface and see if it makes any difference.

If it turns out to be impossible on a flat surface, I don't expect this to be a very useful technique, but it's an interesting find nonetheless.

EDIT: I believe it is IMPOSSIBLE on a flat surface. Look at this video and compare the height difference between the SH Horizontal PK Fire and the normal grounded PK Fire.

Note that I used "B-Sticking" in this video to maintain my position (I didn't slide to the right or anything when doing PK Fire). I think the SH Horizontal PK Fire is TOO close to the ground to work on flat surfaces. This can be done only near edges or on slopes apparently.

 

[Eff_Soul]

What's so great about this?

Insane Mindgames.
Imagine this.

Your enemy is of the stage(lets make him wolf)You start to pk Thunder to gimp him and he activates his reflector which he reflects PKT elsewhere.Your still in lag and he's approaching the ledge quickly.You start the shorthop and he probably most likely goes under(over depending on the circumstance.)the stage in order to scar it.Now you do the SHHPF and he goes right into it(well maybe)this is most likely instant ko because wolf would either A)Fall to his doom since he is a heavyweight and he most likely will have 50 plus damage or B) Get out of it and you could set up for a spike because his recovery is somewhat predictable.Either way,if you play smart,you have the upper hand.

oK That was probaly a gay situation but you can see where its going.

I m about to test one of my thereoys out in a sec.This can give us a good upperhand in the mindgames department

 

[Earthbound360]

Sad, sad news guys.

Turns out Psyness is right. Coincidentally, he posted this right after I delved deeper into this. Here's the science behind it.

Ness uses PKF in the air and hits the floor redirecting it. When shot, it will go perfectly straight, but at a VERY low level. This level actually goes into the ground as previously stated. The reason it CAN work on the center of the field is that the fire will travel a VERy small distance before being "eaten" by the floor. Done near an edge, it can go this distance to get out of the ground and complete the distance. This is why it works a feww steps from the ledge. This distance is enough to get it out. But on normal ground, it DOES go at a stright line, but only a short distance, not enough to reach any reasonably distant foe.


No Lucas esque PKFing.

 

[Tyr_03]

Could this be more useful on platforms? It seems like it might go low enough to hit most of the taller characters on Battlefield and such. Just a thought. I haven't been able to do it myself.

 

[Tyr_03]

I messed around with this some and it's possible to do on stages with a slant in them like Lylat Cruise and Yoshi's Island. Seems pretty nice as a retreating move. It also works on platforms against tall characters like Ganondorf.

 

[psyNess]

Not That Sad

Putting into perspective, we got:

2 slopey - abuseable; 'counter pick stage choice'?

lylat cruise, corneria

vs

15 platformy/slopey - fairly useable

delfino plaza, yoshi's island, rumble falls, castle seige, onett,
halberd, new pork city, picto chat, summit, distant planet,
green hill zone, 75m, hyrule, yoshi's island(melee), rainbow ride

vs

12 flat-like stages - seemingly useless place to use

spear pillar, lugis mansion, final destianation, port town aero dive, frigate orpheon,
norfair, shadow moses island, warioware, skyworld, smashville,
bridge of eldin, battlefield

vs

5 argueable - questionable

brinstar(?), pokemon stadium(?), mario circuit(?), mushroom kingdom(?), mario bros(?)

So really, we got atleast 50% of the stages to use this, its not too sad?

==================================

And to Kirby, Gotenks absorbed:
This way you can dump the start up lag when your moving +
It allows you to pkfire *on landing* instead of after landing +
You aren't going to shoot the ground any more if you decide to PK fire going down from the air because we all know that has point blank range.

It's nothing broken but useful none the less because it gives option to a very 'clunky' move.

 

[Earthbound360]

But short hopping this move doesnt add so much range to it and the vertical altitude that it loses isnt a bit difference from just dashing into a regular grounded PK Fire. THe speed doesnt seem to change much either.

But what I AM theorizing is its ability to go THROUGH slanted floors if they are thin enough. Think about it, SHHPKF can go through the floor a bit before being eathen right?? What if the floor was slanted AND thin? It may cover enough distance to go through it like a wall to the other side! I'll try this on Picatochat soon. When the stage is drawn with a bunch of slanted lines, there is a floor slanted at a high angle that is fairly thin.

I just wanna see this for the heck of it since PKF going through some flat and slanted floors really wont help mch.

 

[Earthbound360]

Bump
Sorry for the double post, but I think I found a possible use.

On stages like Corneria and Yoshi's island, SHHPKF can be used similarly to Lucas since the grooved floor will allow the fire to shoot out completely.

 

[thesage]

the grooved floor also makes it impossible to use in certain directions. This also happens in the new yoshi stage (good cp against Lucas as well).

 

[Kirio]

Good find, even if less useful than originally thought. If this works consistently on edges and platform edges, it will be a great thing to learn.

 

[cHooKay]

Did this like twice on accident. Arrgh, its pretty hard to do, but I must master this. This really adds much for Ness, if I can master this, I'll be able to pull off some insane mindgames and own a better ability to create more combo opportunities.

 

[Earthbound360]

^^^
dont spend too much time on it though. Its really only useful on Corneria, Pirate ship, or Yoshi's island.

The SHHPKF goes too low to travel horizontally on FD.