New Move Sets? Itsamea Mario!

[MetaKnight'sSword]

omg... EVERYONE LOOK AT THE BOX ART THREAD

that where I am now (^^)v

 

[Homelessvagrant]

IDK what was going on before I got here but by reading the last few posts....I don't want to know.

(How do you go from Mario to a cros dressing Zelda)? 0_o

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

Dont Ask and uhe wont tell u..it probably be best if we dont kno... Oo

 

[greenblob]

I think I get the "everyone should be top tier" argument. It's not saying that tiers should exist or that Brawl's tier list should be top tier: everyone, bottom tier: no one (which doesn't make sense since by definition half the cast is sub-average). The tier list is based on levels of play, with top tier having a higher level of play than bottom tier. If everyone had high levels of play and good potential as a competitive character, the game can only be more fun.

Anyway, my thoughts on Mario's moves:
Yes, I'm saying a lot of "it should be the way it was in 64," but I think this one is particularly interesting. In Smash 64, Mario's down B could spike if the opponent is hit by the hitbox at Mario's feet. How about this time around the Mario Tornado spikes (or meteors) if the opponent his hit by Mario's feet at the end of the move? Mario can gain vertical distance if he mashes B or start to descend slightly by doing nothing, the opponent can DI up and down, and both Mario and the other character can DI left and right while this move is taking place. Think of the mindgaming that could take place. Mario tries to guess the opponent's DI and adjust himself accordingly for that spike.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Well we can't argue Mario's getting some power to him.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

He was always a good fighter, he was just never the best.

And if Sakurai really wants to make this game balanced, he should make everyone broken. Because if every character is considered God Tier... then everyone is just as good as everyone else. Also, since everyone would be good there would be no crying that something sucked (like if Sakurai makes everyone Low Tier material). That's my logic.

Oh, and @greenblob:
The tiers are set up by how a character is played in their highest level of metagame (Imagine if there was a Smash tournament with only 25 people. One was the best Doc player in the world, one was the best Mario player in the world, one was the best Luigi player in the world, {yada yada yada so-on and so-forth} and someone was the best Roy player in the world.) It goes by how useful their attacks are, how well they recover, and how well their abilities help them perform in tricky situations. It has nothing to do with "how many people play as X character in the world". I've seen more Sheik players than anyone in the world and Sheik isn't Top Tier, Fox and Falco are.

 

[greenblob]

No, what I meant was if you look at the highest known level of play for, say, Fox, and compare it to the highest known level of play for Kirby, Fox's game is much deeper and at a higher level, and this is at least a part of the deciding factor for how characters rank.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Oh, right, yea... so I basically corrected what you said with what you said.

My bad, I didn't understand.

 

[ChozoChampion]

are we going to get a thread on the music posts? i mean i thought it was the best update this week

 

[Homelessvagrant]

are we going to get a thread on the music posts? i mean i thought it was the best update this week

We did.

look though the blog posts

 

[kirbykid]

I think I get the "everyone should be top tier" argument. It's not saying that tiers should exist or that Brawl's tier list should be top tier: everyone, bottom tier: no one (which doesn't make sense since by definition half the cast is sub-average). The tier list is based on levels of play, with top tier having a higher level of play than bottom tier. If everyone had high levels of play and good potential as a competitive character, the game can only be more fun.

Anyway, my thoughts on Mario's moves:
Yes, I'm saying a lot of "it should be the way it was in 64," but I think this one is particularly interesting. In Smash 64, Mario's down B could spike if the opponent is hit by the hitbox at Mario's feet. How about this time around the Mario Tornado spikes (or meteors) if the opponent his hit by Mario's feet at the end of the move? Mario can gain vertical distance if he mashes B or start to descend slightly by doing nothing, the opponent can DI up and down, and both Mario and the other character can DI left and right while this move is taking place. Think of the mindgaming that could take place. Mario tries to guess the opponent's DI and adjust himself accordingly for that spike.

All characters should be HIGH TIER not top or broken tier. The thing about the top tier characters in Melee were, they technically have very few weaknesses. They're almost a complete army all by themselves. The high tier characters have aren't too strong, and most of their moves make sense.

You Mario idea is similar to mine when I said Mario should be able to footstool jump off of enemies heads. I like your idea too. Very interesting.

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

I say any character is good just as long as ppl kno how to use them...except pichu...he was a *****

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Actually it's not hard to find a good Pichu. If you can avoid the moves that hurt it (which really aren't that many and most of those attacks really aren't that useful anyway, for that matter) you have a fairly good character. If Sakurai wants to fix Pichu and make it right, he needs to either make it stop hurting itself or make it stronger (and of course, luigify it with either course of action that they take).

Mewtwo is the only problem on that roster. The only good Mewtwo player I've seen is Taj, and even he stops playing Mewtwo when the competition starts getting tougher. You really can't debate the tiers.

Also, Doc Mario is another problem... but that's for a completely different reason.

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

Actually it's not hard to find a good Pichu. If you can avoid the moves that hurt it (which really aren't that many and most of those attacks really aren't that useful anyway, for that matter) you have a fairly good character. If Sakurai wants to fix Pichu and make it right, he needs to either make it stop hurting itself or make it stronger (and of course, luigify it with either course of action that they take).

Mewtwo is the only problem on that roster. The only good Mewtwo player I've seen is Taj, and even he stops playing Mewtwo when the competition starts getting tougher. You really can't debate the tiers.

Also, Doc Mario is another problem... but that's for a completely different reason.

well I guess yu were right about Pichu...however Sakurai cant Take off Pichu shocking himself...and for Mewtwo he wasnt really that hard to control cept for the fact he was light and how was Dr. Mario bad event though he was a stronger form of the regular mario?? Im just asking (^^)v

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

well I guess yu were right about Pichu...however Sakurai cant Take off Pichu shocking himself...and for Mewtwo he wasnt really that hard to control cept for the fact he was light and how was Dr. Mario bad event though he was a stronger form of the regular mario?? Im just asking (^^)v

Mewtwo was bad because he's light (when he should have been heavy or at least heavy--er), big, has a lot of start-up lag to a lot of his moves, small hitboxes, very useless B moves, and very little combo-ability.

EDIT:
And Doc was bad because he was the cloniest clone this side of Clonesville.

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

Mewtwo was bad because he's light (when he should have been heavy or at least heavy--er), big, has a lot of start-up lag to a lot of his moves, small hitboxes, very useless B moves, and very little combo-ability.

EDIT:
And Doc was bad because he was the cloniest clone this side of Clonesville.

hmm ok....and Actually I would say Roys was the cloniest...I mean c'mon... an unlockable character copying of another unlockable characters moves? I mean seriously LOL

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

^^^^
That's not as bad as being the same character in a different outfit with only slightly higher strength, slightly lower speed, horribly lower recovery, and save for a few differences in only a handful of moves, the same hitboxes.

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

The only flaw I saw in Dr. Mario was that he was slower than his other counterpart

 

[Afro Boy2000]

Adding all these abilities would make Mario broken. Though some of them would make him better without breaking him. Like the ability to make him run while shooting the fireball (new alternative to short hop blaster anyone?) and having his tornado have better "sucking ability". This would improve him but fairly.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

That's the thing. I thought that making every character broken would improve the game, but if every character couldn't be stopped then it wouldn't matter. Characters in a fighting game need holes in their defenses so they aren't tanks and their offensive capabilities need to be limited before they are too great.

If we could take Top Tier and nerf it just slighty; take Middle Tier and buff them just slightly; and then take the Low and Bottom Tiers and buff them a lot better so everyone fits on High Tier, we're going to have a great game.

And for the record, it looks like Mario's Tornado sucks just fine now.



EDIT:
Oh, wait ... ...whoops!

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

And for the record, it looks like Mario's Tornado sucks just fine now.



EDIT:
Oh, wait ... ...whoops!

LOL Oh that made my day LOL

 

[superkong53]

well I guess yu were right about Pichu...however Sakurai cant Take off Pichu shocking himself...and for Mewtwo he wasnt really that hard to control cept for the fact he was light and how was Dr. Mario bad event though he was a stronger form of the regular mario?? Im just asking (^^)v

i think im a good pichu. if u count wavedashes,shffl,and shield grabs.

 

[tijmenzwaan]

Sheik + Ganondorf

im wondering if he didnt cut a lot of the high tier characters from melee. i've neither seen or heard nothing of falco marth or sheik. i believe sheik is gone unless he is his own character now.

a friend of mine send me a text from magazine or something were one of the developers accidentally said that they were almost finished with the models of both sheik and ganondorf. so they are confirmed to be in the game

the interview:

There is a new interview on the nets with Aonuma. He talks Zelda and lets slip something about Brawl. More inside.


''In a new interview, Aonuma basically slipped and confirmed the characters of Shiek and Ganondorf within the Brawl game we are all awaiting. The quote goes as such:

"Actually, my designers did work on the designs for Sheik and Link and Ganondorf. So they submitted the initial designs, and so it would fit in the Smash Bros. Brawl environment, they've had to tweak some of the designs. But Sakurai has brought those altered designs to NCL. We're working very closely with the team of Smash Bros. Brawl to make sure the characters look their best."

The majority of the article remains on the topic of Phantom Hourglass, so if you are looking for some more Phantom Hourglass interviews, here you go.

I would also like to point out that whoever decided to upgrade Joomla throughly confused me when making this post. Man, this is going to take some getting used to...

Source: The Hylia''

this was what was in his e-mail to me.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

^^^^
Well it's true, we've known about it for a while. But it doesn't confirm that Sheik or Ganondorf will be in Brawl, only that concept art was sent to Sora. It's up to Sakurai as to whether or not they ultimately make the cut. But I wouldn't worry about it, at least not for Ganondorf. He's definitely making the cut.

 

[Pyroloserkid]

I really like what your doing here Kirbykid, trying to balance out the characters. My favourite of your ideas would have to be the fireball improvements. I'm obsessed with Super Mario for the NES, and I would love if Smash Mario had those kind of fire abilities.

Do Bowser! =]

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Hey kirbykid, can you give us any insight as to who the next character to be reinvented will be?

Or at least can you tell me when you decide to get around to Ness? I'm dying to see what you have in store for the kid. He was my favorite character in SSB64, I hope they restore him to some sort of glory so I can play him seriously again.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

usually his updates deal with Dojo sites updates but sometimes not.

 

[superkong53]

new updates on SSBB website. Lyn from FE is a assist trophy. its a shame really i was hoping to play as her.

 

[Johnknight1]

Mario...I main him in SSB64. Anyways, I think he needs to be more like his SSB64 self, but with the plus sides of his Melee form.

And that is a GREAT POINT kirbykid, Sakurai should make every character like a top tier character, to dominate, and not to suck. Street Fighter 2 and 2 Turbo were done this way, and look at how popular they are. That would clearly be one of the best [if not the best] path to reaching better tier balance for the Brawl developing teams.

As for the Mario movese,t I agree. Mario tornado should pull enemies in [seeing it does already], and MArio is looking towards top tier dominance. IN fact, Link seems to be shaping up towards that way. I'm going to laugh if after main Link for OVER 4 years, and then switching to maining Fox for 7 monthsm, [at the current moment] I end up switching back to maining Link in Brawl, lol! That'd be pretty funny.