New Kirby Player Looking For Help/Info

[Zane Fleia]

Hey there. I'm Zane, don't post here often. Trying to get out of that nasty habit.
So, yeah... I'm trying to get my Kirby game up. Right now, my best is Sheik, but there's enough of us Sheik players around. I like Kirby a lot right now, and practically no one plays him. But the problem is, of course, I'm not that great with Kirby right now. I might put up a video to critique, which seems the easiest way to ask for help, but I don't have anything for that really. I may or may not later, depending on me getting something for it.
Right now, a bunch of my game revolves around Dairing. I almost spam it. It's probably a bad habit, how much I end up doing it. I know for a fact I don't Bair enough at all. I hesitate to chase someone way off the edge after knocking them off. My main kill strategy is to knock them off and low, and Dair spike/meteor them (is it a spike or a meteor?). Of course, I realize it's not the most consistant strategy, and won't work at all on a few characters. I can't get a kill off that well otherwise, except for some Uairs and smashes. I also use the Ftilt often, and it seems stable. If I am ahead a stock, or we are both on the last stock, I go for a Kirbycide. But screw it up sometimes. What's an acceptable "safe" damage percentage to try it at?
On another note, how technical is Kirby? Does he need to Wavedash often? That kinda stuff. Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[OneOutOfManyMore]

For Kirbycide, I generally dont try it unless they have at least 30% damage. Exceptions being an u-throw kirbycide and sometimes a swallowcide.

And I would try complimenting your F-tilts with D-tilts as well. Not only do you have the advantage of being extreemly low to the ground (Kirby crouch ftw), but it has at least decent spacing knockback.

 

[Buttcrust]

WDing is only mildly important. Maybe one WD backward to get out of the way of an attack is all you'll really need. But SHFFLing is a must.

Also, a swallowcide works at 0% if you can use your momentum or your ledge time to eat them and never even touch the groung and simply fall off the stage. As far as doing it while on the stage, maybe 30% but I really don't even bother with it then because if you can get them off the stage you can edge-guard them fairly ewasily in most cases.

The best way to do this is hang on the ledge. When the get close enough, hit back to fall off the ledge and then b-air them and fly back to the ledge. Repeat as needed. A d-smash/tilt can also be pretty nice to use here.

It is okay to chase someone off the stage to finish a KO but if you have to use more than 2 jumps to get there it is probably better to hang on the ledge.

A quick SHFFled f-air is a nice appraoch as well and SHFFLed and double b-airs.

 

[t!MmY]

You really should b-air more.

Safe percentages for Kirbycides is dependant on who your opponent is. Some people break out instinctively, some people practically give you all the time you need to pull off a Kirbycide. To give you something to work with, I'll just say try back-throw KOs at 50% or more, up-throws at much higher (100%), and U-throw can be done at any percent. Swallowcides aren't affected by damage, only by how fast your opponent breaks grabs.

 

[Zane Fleia]

Thanks again for the advice! I've gotta work on my SHFFL... Primarily, the L-Cancel part of it. Off to training mode, until I get bored of it again! XD
The main thing that keeps me from going pro is probably the boredom of practicing these things. >.>

 

[Sliq]

One of the best edgeguarding techniques I've found is to grab the ledge, then hit back and immediately hit a. You will drop off of the ledge and back air immediately. You can even do this and then fastfall it...just make sure you hit them. Otherwise you are now in the position to get edgeguarded. As simple as this sounds, it is extremely effective if you can get your opponent low enough that they have to come up from the bottom. It can even work against Marth if you know what you're doing.

 

[Buttcrust]

^ Fo Sho!!

 

[Zane Fleia]

Another problem that has now occured... My approach. I am having difficulty getting close to some characters without just getting batted away a lot. Such as Marth for instance. Almost every time I move in to try and get off a good hit, he just hits me away and combos me. What are some of the better ways to approach with Kirby?

 

[Dogysamich]

[sarcasm] You could approach a marth by approaching the gamecube and disconnecting his controller, then you can get in some free hits while he's busy trying to get it back in the right socket [/sarcasm]

Seriously though, I've never fought a marth with kirby, but I'll take a stab in the dark and say there's no golden move to do this with, cause marth is hard to approach regardless.

F.airs might work. B.airs might work. F.tilt might work. D.tilt might work.
I honestly wouldnt know, even if i tried this.

Marth is THE character where the really isnt a "golden approach", you either stay back and let them come to you (which generally gives up their range, as long as you're good with your D) or you have to duck and dodge under the tipper range so you can get in to get a hit.


__

Next time I go to a tournament, i think ill take a marth friendly or 2 and see if I cant get some better info about this. (although i'll be surprised if i remember kirby come tourney time :/ )

 

[Buttcrust]

Well, you have to trick him into attacking then you move, sidestep, or triangle dodge the attack. At really low percents and not on the tipper you can CC his attacks.

 

[Zane Fleia]

First question: Triangle dodge? Totally don't know what that is. XD
And secondly, this doesn't only apply to Marth, that was just an example of a character. I have some trouble just on a general approch, even of a Mario or Bowser.

 

[t!MmY]

You're having problems with approach because Kirby's approach is very limited. I say limited because of his slow speed and short reach. To make up for this, Kirby players have to learn to read their opponent and look for openings in their defense.

While this does not necessarily mean you have to play defensive, it means you have to learn to not make poor choices in how you attack. Quick movements and less-direct approaches, while remaining in an offensive posture, can force your opponent into leaving themselves vulnerable.

Here's an example to better illustrate my point:

When playing against Mario (since you mentioned him), I know that his reach isn't especially long, so when attacking, his approach will generally be a SHFFL. Let's say he moves in for a F-air. Using this foresight against him, you can - for instance - slide back out of his reach and try to catch him as he lags from his attack.

The example sounds fairly simple, and it is, but doesn't show the entire scope of the battle. You have to take into account Kirby's distance and mobility, whether or not Mario successfully L-cancelled, what Mario will be doing upon recovering from his attack, which attack or movement is best to use, etc., etc., etc.

Edit:
Triangle Dodging is a term used to describe jumping and then Air Dodging diagonally downward (usually toward your opponent). The Air Dodge is cancelled upon landing, which can give you enough time for a counter-attack.

 

[Zane Fleia]

Ah, thanks. I was just wondering if there was anything more to a just "read and respond" approach. Not that I have any problem with that, it's my favorite kind of approach. But options equals versatility, after all. Good to know what you can do. ^_^
Great, finally showed a few Smash friends that I'm picking up Kirby, and they try to talk me out of it for his "suckage". They're just scared of him (or so I rationalize)! ^_^

 

[Pink Reaper]

Hey if you cant read your opponents moves on the approach you could always try and annoy them towards you with endless taunting.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

kirby's taunt makes me attack him mindlessly so I'd agree

 

[Pariah]

Well, Kirby is good for some things. One of those is spamming.
You can poke around at anyone all day with his jab until you get them to around 90%, where I suggest uair. Dairs are somewhat okay meteors, but I'm guessing it was meant for drilling. The best idea is not to rely on an f-smash for KOs, because it's just too darn slow.
As for kirbycides, try to swallowcide facing the stage and spit them out under there. It makes it easier to recover while they curse the heavens in agony. 8D

 

[Buttcrust]

Um, no.

Kirby can not spam anything effectively, not even his b-air and especially not his jab.

And never, and I repeat for emphasis, never spit them out under the stage when you get a swallowcide oppurtunity. There is a good chance that they will still survive and you, not having all your jumps, will not. Keep them in your mouth and simply fly back up after they die from inside you.

 

[Pink Reaper]

you want a good kirby strategy, how about this, pick someone else! I love kirby, but god he's just not as good as, well, every other character in the game. You should try jiggs instead, shes what kirby would be if he was good.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

If you're going to use D-air a lot I'd suggest learning the D-air flip trick or whatever people decided to call it. There was a thread on it a while back, use the Search feature and it should pop up. It basically relates to using Kirby's D-air while moving away from the opponent to get stun but no knockback for a follow-through with a smash, tilt, jab, whatever.

B-air is probably your best non-suicide move. Use it. Don't spam it.

Learn how to use the crouch to get through some forms of spam and avoid taller characters' moves.

Kirby sucks at approaching. You're going to have to use CC, heavy evasion and a ton of thinking to get in on anyone with a disjointed hitbox, superior range or priority (so essentially the entire cast).

Learn the timing for surviving the swallowcide and drill it into your fingers.

Kirby's not very technical. He's got some awkward timings, notably the swallowcide, but he's not particularly complicated. Wavedash is okay for maneuvering and sliding away from enemies and out of range. Kirby's wavedash is tiny so learn how to do perfect wavedashes. Past that, swallowcide frames and having a perfect SHFFL, since F-air is your main approach, there's not much to Kirby. Which doesn't really work in his favour.

 

[Pariah]

I'm going to prove I can make at least a solid post by saying what everyone who plays Kirby knows and will tell me I'm stupid for saying:
Don't give the opponent a break.
Kirby is teh suxxorz at distance, and apart from the Final Cutter and the Hammer, most attacks mean for you to get close to the guy. Any swordsmen can get at you because of the sword range. Marth is probably hard for Kirby, being that the sword gets in the way of combos. And dair. Don't forget Marth's dair. So do not give another guy any breathing room, considering Kirby's position on the tier list. But skills>tiers to some point. Anyway.

Also, keep the guy grounded. Any aerials are okay, but Kirby's brilliant multi-jump fighting strategy lacks solidarity. Give them the benefit of the doubt by keeping them to all security groundwise, and then it's open season. Being that kirby's short, and can attack from different angles, just pester them until a high %. Then whatever.

 

[t!MmY]

My Kirby isn't bad at long distance. I just use Kaiouken x10, kamehamaha, and Zanzokuzen.

 

[Dogysamich]

Man, if Kirby had plasma from Kirby Super Star, and a workable Dpad, this game would be over, lol.

That power was so frickin abusable.

But yeah, life dont work like that, so DUCCCCCCCCCCCCCK, also, against "item" throwing characters (peach, link, y.link) it's helpful to be able to catch their projectiles.

I'm convinced nothing is more intimidating to a peach than a person who catches her stitchface, even if they just throw it into the ground.

 

[Zane Fleia]

I missed a TON of posts. I've gotta stop mindlessly deleting all my subscription notifications! XD
Thanks for all the help, gotta work on my SHFFL. Aside from that, I think it's going pretty well. Unless I'm fighting a human. -_-
I'll get it eventually, I guess. ^_^

 

[_clinton]

Fair works for me when I want to get close (3 kicks = gold), It is kind of like Ness' Fair (5 hits = gold)

Up smash is a good killer for some areas.