New Ideas

[Gleam]

I'm about to present not a new idea of some crazy a** flying warlock sh*t wiz double dair technique. Instead I want to present two new actually ideas involving the physical limitations and what not of Ganondorf.

#1) Stop Running.

I've come to the thought that perhaps its better to walk, then to run for a few reasons.

*Less chance of tripping while walking. Now tripping has nit affected me much but I've known many times where someone will run, trip...F-smash. The less there is the better and unless you're playing Brawl+ there will be tripping.

* More Options. When running you can't do any Smashes except U-smash. By just walking you've got your complete arsenal with you.

* No worry of the sprint lag. Not sure what to call it but unless your doing an iDA, there's a short part at the very beginning where you start running where you can't do anything, shield, nothing.

I find that it could be pretty easy for someone to hit Ganondorf in the spare moment of lag. Which also bring me the point that...perhaps you should try to attack people right when they begin that dash attack. Just saying.

* Ganon is slow and I can promise especially against those with long reach, you aren't going to be doing some random run at the opponent and then fake them out by running back. This isn't sonic or anything.

Why run? once you get to an opponent you're pretty much there until the opopnent leaves. Why risk the all this possible lag. The few times I think the run should be used is when your getting ready to do an iDA. (Event hen you don't have to really *run* with iDA) I'm not saying to put running completely out, I'm just saying perhaps its time to tone it down a bit.
---

#2 Hitting Opponents in the air

*This also came to me as a thought that perhaps an opponent is most succeptible to attack (espeically large/laggy move characters) when they're in the air about to land on the ground. I'm bringing up the suggestion that perhaps we should start trying to attack people there, you know when they're comming down on the ground trying to land.

If we can hit them right before they hit the ground they've little to do.

I think its just a point where we should try to hit an opponent when they're least prepared for it.

Alright now work on this, its been a while since I contributed in some way.

 

[:034:]

I honestly don't know know what to say. Next you're going to tell me to predict somebody's approach and punish it! That's crazy, man!!




ps: old

 

[Gleam]

I'm just saying that running is starting to become obsolete and that those who use Ganon need to stop running. Or at least use it wisely.

I'll get to predicting approaches later...>_>

 

[@HomE]

I know what your saying Gleam, gives me something to think about.

Very simple advice ill keep in mind, definatly the hitting people right as they land part. I tend to get anxious and try keep hitting them in the air, when im sure a well timed U-smash would probly be a better(and less punishable option).

 

[Teronist09]

I used to try walking instead of running, but it made matches longer and more boring. Honestly I'd rather lose than have that happen. :/

The second thing, though... Isn't that just common sense? The only time I could see not trying to hit them in the air is someone who can stop you from doing so all the time.

 

[Gleam]

I'm not sure if I'm getting the main point of the hitting in the air.

I'm talking of attack them when they're basically still in the air, but about to touch the ground. Which would then cause their own aerials for a counter-attack to be less affective.

Due to landing lag and, well if you can attack them exactly before they touch the ground with a laggy aerial they won't even do an attack.

I find that one is very vulnerable to attack in that kind of position.

EDIT: In Retrospect Ganon mains kind of know that people above Ganon are in danger of the King's uairs and what not. What I believe most fail to grasp is the position of said people in the air and will randomly attack with Uair and what not.

 

[PK-ow!]

Running really should be treated with more nuance. It's done too unthinkingly by too many people. And I really see it come down to impatience - especially for Falcon players.

There's basically two things to keep in mind:


A) If you're in no hurry to get where you're going, don't run!

and

B) If your positional advantage is the same no matter where you are between 'here' and 'there', you aren't in a hurry.


Walking can do all sorts of things. But putting mechanical benefits aside, the real issue is about when you feel like you need to get to where you're going quickly. How do you know you should be running? This is a nontrivial question; I know for a fact what the next step is for my Zelda is knowing when to run... and where.

Spoiler

I thought I could play more passively, but no - Zelda's weakness which you have to proactively fight against is her run speed.

It can be kept in mind that using the walk and the run can manipulate your opponent's mind. I realized recently that there is a *lot* you can do when your opponent is waiting on the respawn to "fill your opponent's head with ideas." Use oddly timed double jumps. Throw uncommon moves around to disrupt your opponent's sense of your timing (note, this means *don't* show off a Warlock Punch reminding him how long it takes; rather, use your IASA attacks but don't IASA them).

In short, do ugly things. This may be tough. But think about it - have you ever felt the desire to 'flex out' some attacks after a K.O.? Like flip uair around or thunderstomp? What I'm willing to bet now is the opponent wants the same thing. For whatever reason, battle builds up that tension in the both of you, and he is expecting you to do that sort of thing. But control yourself, and use attacks that look ugly. Jab at nothing (Ganon only). Ftilt, with an inconsistent amount of walking inbetween - and no pattern if it can be angled! Just the straight one. "Crouch taunt," but slower, and erratically.

To tie this back to this discussion - It's scarcely causal, but if you can make your opponent slip for one moment on how fast either one really is. . . walk around. And then run. But don't dash dance.
Unless you're Koskinator, and can do it perfectly. Because it's facking hilarious.


I'm looking forward to putting these into use this weekend, when there's a tournament right outta my backyard (for once).

 

[Z1GMA]

* No worry of the sprint lag. Not sure what to call it but unless your doing an iDA, there's a short part at the very beginning where you start running where you can't do anything, shield, nothing.

I believe you can follow up with [iDA, DashDance, roll, jump, Fsmash, Usmash, and side+B] right after your Dash animation begings.
... Maybe I'm just not getting what you meant ;\

One very good thing about Ganon's walk is that it's without doubt, and by far, the most intimidating walk animation in the entire game! ¤_¤

Hitting them in the air/landing lag
I like AC Uair followed by Dtilt/jab/grab, here.
If they try to attack with an aerial, Uair beats pretty much anything.
If your Uair scares them into airdodging, emidietly Dtilt/jab/grab as they land. (Even Dsmash)

((( Don't care too much about the timing of the Uair! Rather, think about when you'll land after it, so that you'll be ready to punish their landing lag IF they airdodged. )))

 

[Gleam]

I believe you can follow up with [iDA, DashDance, roll, jump, Fsmash, Usmash, and side+B] right after your Dash animation begings.
... Maybe I'm just not getting what you meant ;\

One very good thing about Ganon's walk is that it's without doubt, and by far, the most intimidating walk animation in the entire game! ¤_¤

Hitting them in the air/landing lag
I like AC Uair followed by Dtilt/jab/grab, here.
If they try to attack with an aerial, Uair beats pretty much anything.
If your Uair scares them into airdodging, emidietly Dtilt/jab/grab as they land. (Even Dsmash)

((( Don't care too much about the timing of the Uair! Rather, think about when you'll land after it, so that you'll be ready to punish their landing lag IF they airdodged. )))

Unless I'm missing something You can't Fsmash or roll at the very beginning of the dash. Neither can you shield or dodge. The shielding option is one of the main reasons why I put it up. I've learned that playing as Ganon I need to constantly be ready to shield/powershield whenver possible, and the times when that's not possible don't bode well for me. With walking I can do all the things you listed above while still adding the protection if possible of the shield. Of course with dash-dancing you need to kind of use the run.

 

[PK-ow!]

Unless I'm missing something You can't Fsmash or roll at the very beginning of the dash. Neither can you shield or dodge. The shielding option is one of the main reasons why I put it up. I've learned that playing as Ganon I need to constantly be ready to shield/powershield whenver possible, and the times when that's not possible don't bode well for me. With walking I can do all the things you listed above while still adding the protection if possible of the shield. Of course with dash-dancing you need to kind of use the run.

There is a way *to* dodge though, that involves dashing first.

You dash, then hit shield. It's really fast, so you barely go anywhere, but the game is processing a dash before you do a roll. You roll in the direction you're going.

Fsmash is... sort of the same thing, but not really, because in this case it's just inputs; the game lets you input the smash before the A, but if you start running, I don't think you can smash, and if you can, the leeway is like two frames into the dash max.

You'd have to C-stick it, for sure.

 

[Gleam]

The first you mentined is exactly what I'm talking about. You Can Dash then immediately hit shield but there's those few frames during the very beginning of the sprint where you can't shield.

The second part unless your speaking of Stuttered F-Smashes and stuff, I've yet to incorporate an Fsmash mid run. Maybe I'm overlooking something or my game is wack.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

i use dash attacks alot, in fact it almost always hits. also about that uair then grab thing, i often use dthrow uair and a regrab. this way its much more likely to hit the opponent with something and against mk dthrow uair almost always hits because of mk's position

 

[ShinGaruda]

Ganondorf is scarier when he walks. That's all that truly matters.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

I think I prefer FJ NAir'ing or SH'ing w/ FAir autocancel to remove the landing lag when I have to move quick.

 

[GanonkingAbyss]

actually ive tried to walk slowly like that, its fun lol

 

[:034:]

I think I prefer FJ NAir'ing or SH'ing w/ FAir autocancel to remove the landing lag when I have to move quick.

?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[PK-ow!]

I think I prefer FJ NAir'ing or SH'ing w/ FAir autocancel to remove the landing lag when I have to move quick.

What'chu talkin' bout, Willis?

Quit playin', Fair has no autocancel. You can bet any of us tested that **** for months after release...


Off-topic: Guys, I just wanted to let you know I properly main Ganondorf now. Ness and I are. . . separated. :O There's a whole -thing- and, I won't be using him outside doubles anymore.

EDIT: I see the character icon as a way of giving people an impression when they see my name. I can't imagine too many other characters going there... the Ganon head doesn't look right at that size, and if I'd put Samus or GaW there I'd feel like I'd done wrong by their character board.
That last point is a double standard, maybe. But we'll see.

tl; dr The Ganon chara icon is pugly. >_>

 

[:034:]

Off-topic: Guys, I just wanted to let you know I properly main Ganondorf now. Ness and I are. . . separated. :O There's a whole -thing- and, I won't be using him outside doubles anymore.

Change your little chara icon then

 

[Shadow Nataku]

What'chu talkin' bout, Willis?

Quit playin', Fair has no autocancel. You can bet any of us tested that **** for months after release...

Its not really an autocancel more buffering but know how when you Full Jump theres always a lag when you land with Ganondorf that keeps you on the spot? If you FAir just before hitting the floor it skips the landing animation altogether and you can immediately move again. if you do it right the FAir doesn't come out but cancels anyway buffering your landing.

Pretty old stuff I picked up from one of the older threads here, but it goes nice with those big full jumps.

 

[:034:]

Ohh. I actually researched that myself, it's in my old testing thread. But, why would you do that if you want to move fast? You could just.... jump.

Did we test to see if the fair cancel affects the RCO lag? I think we did, but I forgot. :/

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Ohh. I actually researched that myself, it's in my old testing thread. But, why would you do that if you want to move fast? You could just.... jump.

Did we test to see if the fair cancel affects the RCO lag? I think we did, but I forgot. :/

I do it because it seems easier to buffer into moves or a shield without effecting my spacing (Ganon isn't the most reactive out of a dash) than using a dash buffer cancel when doing short hops and with full jumps it cuts out the landing lag you get from doing an NAir or UAir without double jumping first.

Also no it doesn't effect RCO lag I tried it out and you can't even buffer moves during RCO its ********.

 

[Twilight_Warrior]

New to the forums. Excuse the n00b for not using proper terminology.

I've been maining Ganondorf for about 6 months now and I have to say, the technique that was discussed in the first post where you anticipate the landing and stirke BEFORE they land works better with the dash attack. Of course, this sends your opponenet straight up again, so I have no idea what is accomplished by that.
What's worked for me is lettign them land in the first place, but let them land AS you're walking towards them and hitting them with a foot-to-the-face sideA. Assuming we're on Final Destination, your opponent will be sent off the edge and slightly down, giving you the complete advantage.

 

[:034:]

New to the forums. Excuse the n00b for not using proper terminology.

I've been maining Ganondorf for about 6 months now and I have to say, the technique that was discussed in the first post where you anticipate the landing and stirke BEFORE they land works better with the dash attack. Of course, this sends your opponenet straight up again, so I have no idea what is accomplished by that.
What's worked for me is lettign them land in the first place, but let them land AS you're walking towards them and hitting them with a foot-to-the-face sideA. Assuming we're on Final Destination, your opponent will be sent off the edge and slightly down, giving you the complete advantage.

More importantly, are you Twilight Prince's subordinate?!

It really is a small world. I wonder if there's a King as well...

 

[Twilight_Warrior]

Lol, no I'm not. I didn't know there was a Twilight Prince already, so sorry if I've offended anyone, but I've been using this tag for a long time now on random forums throughout the world. I guess it's only fitting that the Nintendo one has a user with a similar name...

Oh well, aside from that, I've got a few tricks for Ganondorf up my sleeve (of course, this being a Smash forum, you probably already know a good 75% of them), and I might post them later if I don't see them elsewhere on the boards.

 

[TP]

Lol, no I'm not. I didn't know there was a Twilight Prince already, so sorry if I've offended anyone, but I've been using this tag for a long time now on random forums throughout the world. I guess it's only fitting that the Nintendo one has a user with a similar name...

Oh well, aside from that, I've got a few tricks for Ganondorf up my sleeve (of course, this being a Smash forum, you probably already know a good 75% of them), and I might post them later if I don't see them elsewhere on the boards.

You live very close to me (compared to most smashers). Let's play online some time. Ganon only. Winner is the proper Twilight Ganon main.

Gleam, I have nothing to contribute to your thread except to say that I almost always hit with my getup attack after I trip. I just wait for them to come over to me and time it right. Tripping isn't the end of the world.

 

[A2ZOMG]

About running.

It's better than walking for srs. Except for the fact you can trip.

When people see you run, they will expect you to do an attack of some sort. They will probably shield, or space/spotdodge in preparation of countering whatever attack you might have done, but people still seem to overlook run pivoting. Ganon's run pivot isn't horribly laggy, and reduces the commitment you have on running. Okay, it's not Dash-Dancing, but it still kinda gets the job done. Koskinator does this a LOT. He will run forward, turn around, and Flame CHoke after they spotdodge.

 

[AgentJGV]

While I still say running is important, especially for dash attacks, down B works just as well if your just trying to cover a lot of ground.

Dash Attack is a viable kill move and actually comes out decently fast. I needz it!