New-Haa, Fact or Fiction?

[Sonicninja115]

New-Haa
Dthrow-Monkey Flip Kick-Uair/Fair

Lately the New-Haa (named by D1 and accepted because the orignal name takes ten minutes to say) has been making some waves, and people are dubious if it actually works and just how good it is. First off, it works. Here is a video made by @Orocket detailing how it is done.

The New-Haa combo is not the easiest combo in the game, but it is not the hardest either. Think about ZSS's Uair chain and it is a bit harder then that. After the Dthrow, Diddy kong needs to jump into Monkey Flip. Afterwich he needs to buffer the Kick so that it comes out as soon as possible. Following the Kick, simply jump into an aerial. Even Dair is possible, but it won't true combo. The only ones that will are Nair/Fair/Bair. Keep in mind that DI will change the point the Diddy kong needs to MF. and that down and up are hard to do unless the DI is predicted.

On most medium-super heavyweights characters, they need about 10% for the New-Haa to work. So try going for a Banana-Dtilt-New-Haa or doing a Dthrow-Bair first.


To further dispel disbelief, I have made a list of what percents the New-Haa combo works on each character. Soon it will be finished, probably 2-4 weeks.

I added a new number called Best Range. This range is the best time to pull off the New-Haa as it will work the best then and cover most of the DI options.

I am going to keep updating this, but I won't be able to for a while, probably next month.

Note: the DI is for both the Throw and MFK. So if the opponent DI's back then the kick will not connect. And with Forward/Up/Down the kick will connect and combo into an aerial at the percents listed below.

ZeRo used the New-Haa at PAX-

Spoiler: VGBootcamps Video 1:55 for the combo

I had a discussion with @MVD on the viability of the New-Haa.

Spoiler: Discussion

Me-What do you think of the Dthrow-MFK-Fair/Uair combo? I have done the numbers and ZeRo has even used it at a tournament, but people still doubt that it works and are discarding it as a gimmick and a bad combo. What do you think?

MVD- Dont think its too viable, depends on too many things going wrong for the opponent. Much rather go for guaranteed things

Me- Thanks! Is is okay if I post your thoughts in the New-Haa thread?

What are the things that go wrong? I know about DI'ing back and how that breaks the combo, but that also makes it easier to do Dthrow-Dair or Uthrow-Dair. Is it the reaction needed to get the MFK off?

Sorry if I'm being annoying I just want to know your opinion and why, you don't have to answer and I am sorta expecting you not too. I was surprised you answered in the first place.

MVD- sure u can, I just simply like to optimize and try to get the most out of my throws. MFK is a mixup option, but I dont think it is super reliable

Me- So you would use MFK if you know that the opponent would DI in a certain way and that they are expecting a combo like Uthrow-Dair instead?

And I totally agree that as a top player you have to go for the best option and MFK is rather easy to mess up, it has the same difficulty as ZSS Uair strings or Meta knights but it is not nearly as profitable.

Waiting for a reply but here is conversation so far. In a nutshell, a good mix-up but not really reliable. And as a top player he needs to go for the most optimal option.

So for lower level players trying to wow your friends this is a good combo or if you are playing at your nearby local this would work, but not necessarily at high or top level. We just have to wait and see how the metagame progresses.

Key-

X- Doesn't work at any percent

Fair- The finisher to the combo is Fair

Uair- The finisher to the combo is Uair

Up- The opponent DI's up from the throw until the aerial

Down- The opponent DI's down from the throw until the aerial

Back- The opponent DI's back from the throw until the aerial, the New-Haa will not work in this DI direction as the kick will not connect

Forward- The opponent DI's forward from the throw until the aerial

Best Range- This is the best range of percent to do this combo, remember, it will also work in a percent window besides this one, just not guaranteed/with one option out.

Spoiler: Super Heavyweight

Bowser
Fair:

Up- X
Down-0-48%
Back- X
Forward- 6-30%​

Uair:

Up- 10-15%
Down- 0-42%
Back- X
Forward- 5-13%​

Best Range: 5-30%

Donkey Kong
Fair:

Up- X
Down-0-59%
Back- X
Forward- 0-50%​

Uair:

Up- 0-24%
Down- 0-45%
Back- X
Forward- 0-19%​

Best Range: 0-24%

King Dedede
Fair:

Up- 0-18%
Down-0-47%
Back- X
Forward- X​

Uair:

Up- 0-20%
Down- 0-27%
Back- X
Forward- X
​

Best Range: 0-20%

​

Charizard
Fair:

Up- 0-10%
Down-0-48%
Back- X
Forward- 0-30%​

Uair:

Up- 0-7%
Down- 0-48%
Back- X
Forward- X
​

Best Range: 0-10%

​

Ganondorf
Fair:

Up- 5%
Down-0-58%
Back- X
Forward- 0-23%​

Uair:

Up- 0-17%
Down- 0-40%
Back- X
Forward- X​

Best Range:0-17%

Spoiler: Featherweight

Zelda
Fair:

Up- X
Down- 0-40%
Back- X
Forward- 8-19%​

Uair:

Up- 0-10%
Down- 0-27%
Back- X
Forward- 8%
​

Best Range: 0-19%

​

Shiek
Fair:

Up- X
Down- 0-49%
Back- X
Forward- 5-20%​

Uair:

Up- 0-15%
Down- 0-35%
Back- X
Forward- X
​

Best Range: 0-15%

​

Falco
Fair:

Up- 0-9%
Down- 0-33%
Back- X
Forward- X​

Uair:

Up- 0-17%
Down- 0-18%
Back- X
Forward- X
​

Best Range: 0-17%

​

Little Mac
Fair:

Up- 0-10%
Down- 0-42%
Back- X
Forward- X​

Uair:

Up- 0-17%
Down- 0-18%
Back- X
Forward- X
​

Best Range: 0-17%

​

ZSS
Fair:

Up- X
Down- 0-36%
Back- X
Forward- X​

Uair:

Up- 0-13%
Down- 0-27%
Back- X
Forward- X
​

Best Range: 0-13%

​

Meta Knight
Fair:

Up- 0-13%
Down- 0-45%
Back- X
Forward- 0-12%​

Uair:

Up- 0-20%
Down- 0-13%
Back- X
Forward- 0-5%
​

Best Range: 0-12%

​

Fox
Fair:

Up- 0-20%
Down- 0-30%
Back- X
Forward- X​

Uair:

Up- 0-25%
Down- 0-25%
Back- X
Forward- X
​

Best Range: 0-25%

​

Pikachu
Fair:

Up- 0-10%
Down- 0-43%
Back- X
Forward- 7-10%​

Uair:

Up- 0-20%
Down- 0-28%
Back- X
Forward- 7-10%
​

Best Range: 0-10%

​

Olimar
Fair:

Up- X
Down- 0-40%
Back- X
Forward- X​

Uair:

Up- 0-4%
Down- 0-18%
Back- X
Forward- X
​

Best Range: 0-4%

​

Rosalina & Luma
Fair:

Up- X
Down- 0-35%
Back- X
Forward- 6%​

Uair:

Up- 0-4%
Down- 0-25%
Back- X
Forward- 6-23%
​

Best Range: 6-23%

​

Kirby
Fair:

Up- X
Down- 0-36%
Back- X
Forward- 0-25%​

Uair:

Up- X
Down- 0-16%
Back- X
Forward- 0-4%
​

Best Range: 0-25%

​

Mr. Game and Watch
Fair:

Up- X
Down- 0-29%
Back- X
Forward- 0-10%​

Uair:

Up- X
Down- 0-12%
Back- X
Forward- 0
​

Best Range: 0-10%

Spoiler: Balloonweight

Mewtwo
Fair:

Up- X
Down- 0-45%
Back- X
Forward- 0-18%​

Uair:

Up- 0-8%
Down- 0-23%
Back- X
Forward- X
​

Best Range: 0-8%

​

Jigglypuff
Fair:

Up- X
Down- 0-26%
Back- X
Forward- 0-5%​

Uair:

Up- X
Down- 0-15%
Back- X
Forward- 0-3%
​

Best Range: 0-5%

Incomplete

Spoiler: Heavyweight

Bowser Jr.
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Samus
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Ike
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Wario
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

R.O.B.
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Captain Falcon
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Link
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Yoshi
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Ryu
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Shulk
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Megaman
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Lucario
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Spoiler: Middleweight

Mario
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Dr. Mario
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Villager
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Luigi
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Wii Fit Trainer
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Pit
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Dark Pit
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Robin
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Sonic
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Roy
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Pac-Man
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Greninja
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Ness
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Lucas
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Toon Link
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Diddy Kong
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Palutena
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Duck Hunt Dog
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Marth
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Lucina
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Peach
Fair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

Uair:

Up-
Down-
Back- X
Forward-​

 

[Bullys]

Thanks for this and the effort on %'s

Interested to see if it gets incorporated into Diddy's meta.

 

[dskank]

2 questions. What does the up-x down- 0-49% mean? if it means Di and all the oppent has to do is hold up to not get hit then can we really call it a combo?

2. if you grabbed them at the ledge can didddy make it back to the stage?

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'll use Bowser as an example
Bowser
Fair: The Fair section is the MFK to fair combo.
Up- X This is the MFK-Fair percents when Bowser DI's up( The X stands for it never working.)
Down-0-48% This is the percents for MFK to Fair when Bowser DI's down. It will true combo between these percents, but it will work easist in the 15-30% range
Back- X
Forward- 6-30%
Uair:
Up- 10-15%
Down- 0-42%
Back- X
Forward- 5-13%

Best Range: 5-30% This stands for the range of percent that the combo works best in. In this range there is usually always a way to combo, regardless of DI.

And the answer to your second question is no... However, it can kill them! I believe that at 27%ish Mario, if caught at the edge of the stage, will always die regardless of DI if the Fair connects.

Also, the combo is best when used with Fair, only use Uair if they DI up.

I hope this helps, @ dskank !

 

[Steelballray]

Interesting. I like Diddy and would love to see some improvements in his meta but I'm sceptical. There are many combos in the game that look even better than this but are not practical in real matches at all. Any evidence of it shown in an actual match would be great.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Interesting. I like Diddy and would love to see some improvements in his meta but I'm sceptical. There are many combos in the game that look even better than this but are not practical in real matches at all. Any evidence of it shown in an actual match would be great.

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/v/13280453?t=1h11m07s

ZeRo uses it, hopefully this video will remain up for a while. But if anyone knows how to make a gif or something like that then please PM me so I can add a gify to the OP

 

[Jaylowww]

Only thing I really hate about this combo is how I need to buffer the kick out of side B ASAP by mashing B as hard as I can during the flip animation.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Only thing I really hate about this combo is how I need to buffer the kick out of side B ASAP by mashing B as hard as I can during the flip animation.

I have done it so much in getting these numbers that I don't actually have to mash anymore. The timing is sorta small but it doesn't have to be frame perfect.

 

[dyr]

i've been lazy learning all the specifics about this combo so thanks for this! going to try incorporating it ASAP.

 

[dskank]

yo sanicninja thanks for testing it. now we know for sure that the first part of the new haa combos and the the second hit never does (always di-able). still may be useful as a bait, like after the mkf go for a tomahawk grab or what have you. and of course it'll be useful when fighting players that just don't know better, it seems like a good scrub killer.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Really?!? That's like saying that Uthrow-Dair isn't viable because all you have to do is not airdodge. This combo works insanely well and is rather easy to pull off as long as you put some effort into it. The first hit will hit and the second is an easy follow-up. everything is guaranteed and as long as you make a minor read (more like a reaction) you can pull it off. When using this combo you just have to remember that the best follow-up is Fair. and that Uair should only be used if the opponent DI's up. other then that it works at more percents then most combos and this combo has low risk as it is unpunishable unlike others where if the opponent jumps away they can easily punish. The numbers I have provided are solid proof that this combo works and if you can't pull it off then you probably need to practice the combo more. dskank How can you say that the aerial will never connect? It is a simple combo that will work as long as it is done correctly. Plus, it is much Harder to do Meta Knight's Uair combo and Shieks fair strings then this combo so you can't pass it off as not viable.

 

[dskank]

Really?!? That's like saying that Uthrow-Dair isn't viable because all you have to do is not airdodge. This combo works insanely well and is rather easy to pull off as long as you put some effort into it. The first hit will hit and the second is an easy follow-up. everything is guaranteed and as long as you make a minor read (more like a reaction) you can pull it off. When using this combo you just have to remember that the best follow-up is Fair. and that Uair should only be used if the opponent DI's up. other then that it works at more percents then most combos and this combo has low risk as it is unpunishable unlike others where if the opponent jumps away they can easily punish. The numbers I have provided are solid proof that this combo works and if you can't pull it off then you probably need to practice the combo more. dskank How can you say that the aerial will never connect? It is a simple combo that will work as long as it is done correctly. Plus, it is much Harder to do Meta Knight's Uair combo and Shieks fair strings then this combo so you can't pass it off as not viable.

bruh.. all im sayin is against an opponent that knows how to correctly di the combo, the second hit is never guaranteed. after the mfk the opponent just can get out by simply holding back, that's where it turns into a read based situation. there is no reason for your oppenent to ever di in any direction but back unless their afraid of getting read.. it actually puts you in a very similar situation as the up throw dair combo does, but with this you get better stage position.

 

[Sonicninja115]

bruh.. all im sayin is against an opponent that knows how to correctly di the combo, the second hit is never guaranteed. after the mfk the opponent just can get out by simply holding back, that's where it turns into a read based situation. there is no reason for your oppenent to ever di in any direction but back unless their afraid of getting read.. it actually puts you in a very similar situation as the up throw dair combo does, but with this you get better stage position.

Ahhh, that doesn't mean DI'ing the MFK, it means DI'ing the throw. So if someone DI's the throw backward, then the MFK will not connect. However, there are many other combos like Dthrow-Dair that will work if the opponent DI's in. I will change that around. It might be possible if the Opponent DI's only the MFK back to get a Bair off. I will look into it.

Long story short, messed up, Back meant di back on throw, will test to see if DI'ing only the MFK can lead into a Bair.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Yeah, this combo only works if the opponent DI’s away if I remember correctly. But it’s nice to condition the opponent to DI away by doing Dthrow -> Uair. Once you see that they’re doing it, mix this in and you’ll see a very confused opponent. Otherwise, Uthrow -> Uair generally places us in a better position.

A good, new hoohah is Uthrow -> Double Jump to side -> Bair -> Bair at low percents. Is guaranteed although I haven't tested the range yet. From memory it works from 0-15%. At a certain point the opponent can DI at you so you can't land the Bair. Then Uair is good as usual.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Yeah, this combo only works if the opponent DI’s away if I remember correctly. But it’s nice to condition the opponent to DI away by doing Dthrow -> Uair. Once you see that they’re doing it, mix this in and you’ll see a very confused opponent. Otherwise, Uthrow -> Uair generally places us in a better position.

A good, new hoohah is Uthrow -> Double Jump to side -> Bair -> Bair at low percents. Is guaranteed although I haven't tested the range yet. From memory it works from 0-15%. At a certain point the opponent can DI at you so you can't land the Bair. Then Uair is good as usual.

Does anybody read the data? it works on all DI options except if the opponent DI's the throw backwards. All other DI options will work and cannot be stopped.

If the opponent DI's the throw up, then Diddy can still true combo the kick into Uair and sometimes Fair.

If the opponent DI's the throw Down then Diddy can still true combo the kick into Fair/Uair, with Fair usually working until 50%

If the opponent DI's the throw away, then Diddy can still true combo the kick into fair and to a lesser extent Uair.

If the opponent DI's the throw back, then diddy cannot connect the kick or the kicks follow-up. However, if the opponent DI's back the it is quite easy to get a double Bair or Uair.

Uthrow-Bair-Bair also works at about 40% I belive, it might be 30%

I don't know what else I can do to prove this combo works. All it requires is practice and I am sorry you guys can't read my data chart but I don't know how to simplify it any further.

Any more questions or uneducated reactions?

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Yah, I'm talking about DI'ing back. Which is why I was talking about conditioning them not to. -.-

 

[Sonicninja115]

Yah, I'm talking about DI'ing back. Which is why I was talking about conditioning them not to. -.-

you said it only works if the opponent DI's away. It works in Up and Down DI too... So many people have been clainming that it only works in one direction and it is starting to get aggravating, sorry. But I agree that it is often good to do a low damage combo before the New-Haa to get them to the best percent possible. So Dthrow-Uair will be a good 13% combo and will make them DI away so that it is easier to get the combo. The New-Haa is easiest when the opponent DI's away.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

you said it only works if the opponent DI's away. It works in Up and Down DI too... So many people have been clainming that it only works in one direction and it is starting to get aggravating, sorry. But I agree that it is often good to do a low damage combo before the New-Haa to get them to the best percent possible. So Dthrow-Uair will be a good 13% combo and will make them DI away so that it is easier to get the combo. The New-Haa is easiest when the opponent DI's away.

Ah, that's my bad. I didn't check up or down DI, I just knew that if the opponent DI'd towards you it didn't work out.


btw, have you seen ZeRo's recent videos at P@X on VGBootcamp's channel? Basically plays the character like it should be. Hyper aggressive and a lot of SHFF Fairs. I seriously think Diddy is becoming like Falco where we have to improvise our combos and they aren't set in stone. Mainly mixture of SHFF Fairs, Bairs, Dtilts, Utilts and Uairs when there’s a platform to jump up to. But that's a topic for a different thread.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Ah, that's my bad. I didn't check up or down DI, I just knew that if the opponent DI'd towards you it didn't work out.


btw, have you seen ZeRo's recent videos at P@X on VGBootcamp's channel? Basically plays the character like it should be. Hyper aggressive and a lot of SHFF Fairs. I seriously think Diddy is becoming like Falco where we have to improvise our combos and they aren't set in stone. Mainly mixture of SHFF Fairs, Bairs, Dtilts, Utilts and Uairs when there’s a platform to jump up to. But that's a topic for a different thread.

Yeah, it's awesome, and remember. HE HASN"T EVEN BEEN PRACTICING! I find that nuts, just crazy. Also, ZeRo used the New-Haa at Pax and I have a link in the comments above. I will add it to the OP.