New Game Terminology, brought to you by Kign Drdeder

[Dingding123]

This is a steam convo I just had with a half-listening friend (playing BL2). What I discussed is something very significant in SSB; in fact, I feel it's at the heart of it. Also, the guy I talked to is is the same guy that made my avatar, and I know how grateful you are of that.

That being said, I feel that it was important to post this.

Completely unedited, just for you.


Dingding: Dude games
Dingding: er, more like gameplay
Dingding: have overtaken my thoughts
Dingding: like a tidal wave
Dingding: of tidal waves
Dingding: You know that stuff that SSB has, that other games don't?
Dingding: I made up a word for it
Dingding: good stuff
Dingding: jk
Dingding: tangible flexibility
Valentine: oh
Dingding: - the idea that
Dingding: uhh
Valentine: more like words
Valentine: but yeah
Dingding: >_>
Valentine: lol
Dingding: - the idea that umm
Dingding: - scratch that
Dingding: - the amount of real-time options at a player's fingertips while playing a game
Dingding: I'll probably come up with a better definition later
Dingding: or maybe you can
Dingding: but like, DI in smash
Dingding: perfect example of tangible flexibility
Dingding: being able to cancel moves
Valentine: yeah ik what you mean
Dingding: also tangible flexibility
Dingding: k ya you're a fellow smasher, of course you would
Dingding: becuase we're the master race
Dingding: ?
Dingding: idk
Valentine: lol
Valentine: yeah
Dingding: anyhoo,
Valentine: but the definition to describe it is still pretty good
Dingding: the options a player has at their fingertips
Dingding: that aren't controllable in-game, or in real time
Dingding: but rather before the game happens
Dingding: that's intangible flexibility
Dingding: or something I'd rather call 'dress-up'
Dingding: /professor
Dingding: LoL is a perfect example of this
Dingding: in league
Dingding: you can mess with your character like crazy before matches even start
Dingding: with runes and masteries
Dingding: you're practically given a half-baked character and you're forced to dress him up before games start past lvl 30
Dingding: or else you get stomped by good players, unless you're something like a support and don't really need stats
Dingding: While tangible flexibiltiy is amazing and hardly ever seen in a caliber that can rival melee's,
Dingding: there's a such thing as too much
Dingding: it can break a game in the long run, if it's competitive
Dingding: best example of that is Gunz
Dingding: there are so many exploits it's ridiculous
Dingding: while good players will probably develop carpel tunnel, they ruin the game rather than enhance it
Valentine: yeah there always needs to be a limit
Valentine: giving the player the freedom to controller many variables can backfire if not done right
Dingding: Example: 2 shotties are mandatory in Gunz, or a shotty and a revolver, because you can swap out weapons and fire them one at a time MUCH faster than 1 weapon's firing speed
Valentine: control*
Dingding: so it breaks the game, shotties > all even though their stats aren't ridiculous
Dingding: yeah. In order for there to be balance there needs to be lines drawn
Dingding: you get me
Dingding: (not a question)
Dingding: Well that's one piece of the puzzle that is the ideal PvP game for ya
Dingding: IMO the most importantttt
Dingding: but yeah RTS games like Starcraft have that definition of tangible flexibility but playing it is nervewrecking and feels like a chore rather than fun
Dingding: I gotta put into words whyyy
Dingding: I just gotta
Valentine: yeah some genre's feel like they have a better grasp on it then others
Valentine: None of them feel perfect to me though
Dingding: DAS OUR JOB
Dingding: MANG
Dingding: Ah. I gets it
Dingding: RTS games have tangible flexibiltiy, but MANDATORY tangible flexibility
Dingding: you HAVE to use the money you get constantly
Dingding: if you wanna be da bess
Dingding: doing nothing to mess with the other guy's head is a complete non-option; they feel more like a race against the clock rather than a PvP game, minus the micromanagement of units in battle
Dingding: which only makes players more anxious
Dingding: ^^they being RTS games


Maybe this phrase won't stick, but the concept is something that I'm sure will improve one's understanding of what makes good PvP games good.

 

[Stevo]

I've never put words to what you are describing here before.

Interesting

 

[Kink-Link5]

Sounds like Analog vs Digital input to me. Like you play Street Fighter and you have to walk at one speed or do that terrible dash step thing and you have to buy a wedding ring for your jump path because there's only three preset jumps.

The more analog control you give the player, the tighter and more flexible it becomes. MP[c] is stupid like why do I have to be close to the opponent to be given the option to do a move. If I want to do that move I should be able to no matter where the opponent is relative to me. Even if it's the wrong choice it's still there for you to pick it. If it's wrong then it's your fault for choosing the wrong one. The game shouldn't play itself.

****ing

Option Selects are the dumbest thing.

Let's make the game choose the best choice of action for you so you don't have to do it yourself.

Option Select is a stupid name too. You don't select an option at all, you do a multiple-function input that carries out accordingly. Multi-Function Action makes more sense.

But it's still dumb that the game plays itself.

 

[Dingding123]

Sounds like Analog vs Digital input to me. Like you play Street Fighter and you have to walk at one speed or do that terrible dash step thing and you have to buy a wedding ring for your jump path because there's only three preset jumps.

The more analog control you give the player, the tighter and more flexible it becomes. MP[c] is stupid like why do I have to be close to the opponent to be given the option to do a move. If I want to do that move I should be able to no matter where the opponent is relative to me. Even if it's the wrong choice it's still there for you to pick it. If it's wrong then it's your fault for choosing the wrong one. The game shouldn't play itself.

****ing

Option Selects are the dumbest thing.

Let's make the game choose the best choice of action for you so you don't have to do it yourself.

Option Select is a stupid name too. You don't select an option at all, you do a multiple-function input that carries out accordingly. Multi-Function Action makes more sense.

But it's still dumb that the game plays itself.

Analog definitely sounds like it's in the ballpark of this idea. I suppose that "tangible flexibility" could refer to the amount of 'analog' control the player has.

Could you send me a link that further describes Analog vs. Digital in the way you're referring to it? Not tv jargon like what I find when I google it lol

 

[Kink-Link5]

No real link I can give since it's just describing the nature of the inputs themself.

Like think analog stick vs digital pad I guess. Analog sticks use potentiometers to get a wide array of variable inputs. You can tilt it slowly for a gentle walk or press it all the way to break into a run. You know, basic video game kind of stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer

Digital inputs are more like simple On/Off switches. It's either being pressed or not. You are either given the option to walk or to stand still. If you're lucky, pressing one of the buttons when pressing forward or pressing forward twice lets you run but everything is all really basic and simplified and there are less options and overall just less control. Basically everything is in Binary in a purely digital game because all the rules of the game make every forward input the same and carry out the same way every time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_system

Almost all games have a mix of Analog and Digital inputs, and how you want the game to be played determines how much of both you let the player have. 2D Mario games and 3D land are mostly digital inputs. You can press forward to run at a slow pace, press Y or B or whatever to run at a set speed, or press nothing to stand still. Jump input is kind of Analog since how long you hold it lets you get variable jump heights, which is a big thing in platformers.

So yeah, it depends on how you want the player to approach the world. In a PvE kind of thing, digital restrictions are good so that the player doesn't find some easy AI abuse that can come from too much control over the world, but real time PvP strives a lot on Analog gameplay to make various approaches to your opponent unpredictable. Most fighters are dumb and just have that dash step thing or an air dash if you're lucky, but there are ones beside Smash that let you have a much higher degree of control over your character, usually through a mechanic specific to that game like a Flight mode or something.

Dive Kick is the ultimate example of only Digital inputs. You press Dive on the ground to Jump straight up, Kick on the ground to jump back a specific and never-changing arc, and Kick in the air to do a Dive Kick that is always the same every time. The game plays out like a really exaggerated Street Fighter match basically since everything you do comes from working within the game's very structured and ultra simplified movement game.

 

[Dingding123]

Ah, okay that's what I figured you were referring to. thx

Dive kick lol. So true. However I'd say that the game disproves the idea that this 'tangible flexibility' stuff is synonymous with Analog vs. Digital. While every input in Dive Kick is digital, due to its speed and win condition there's still a constant number of options at the player's fingertips despite there only being two buttons. I think the actual point the game is trying to make is that it has more 'tangible flexibility' than SF or MvC despite it not having long combo strings or a bunch of different attack commands.