New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[ZeruSlayer]

Comparing your opposition to ants automatically assures that you lose an argument

This is regarding those who have either trolled the topic or threw their opinions as fact without a hint of logic. The only "opposition" (even though I'm neutral) that has trumped me would be you and only you...Congratulations

Edit: During the time I made the ants post I initially put "crushing ants" but quell seems to be a lighter word...I was going for better imagery but I never knew anything at the time to describe Blackendorf flamers so take this as an apology if people were offended by being related to ants.

I think Ganon's moveset is pretty true to the games

Alot of LoZ's combat is punish based if you think about it, and if you attack at the wrong time you almost always get countered/slapped away.

Isint that what P:M Ganon's game is all about?

Not to sound like a nitpicker but having punishable attacks has been a niche for any fighter in the history of fighters and seeing as Ganondorf is a bulky hitter, it makes sense that those high damaging hits be more punishable. So my claim is Ganondorf being punish based has little to do with his franchise but with the way his character was designed in Smash.

 

[Anti Guy]

This is regarding those who have either trolled the topic or threw their opinions as fact without a hint of logic. The only "opposition" (even though I'm neutral) that has trumped me would be you and only you...Congratulations

Edit: During the time I made the ants post I initially put "crushing ants" but quell seems to be a lighter word...I was going for better imagery but I never knew anything at the time to describe Blackendorf flamers so take this as an apology if people were offended by being related to ants.

Is this the imagery you were going for?

 

[ZeruSlayer]

Is this the imagery you were going for?

Quell: to subdue or suppress

I was thinking along those lines, I didn't want to figuratively destroy people .

Edit: But this is a lot better than ants if by a little

 

[PlateProp]

This is regarding those who have either trolled the topic or threw their opinions as fact without a hint of logic. The only "opposition" (even though I'm neutral) that has trumped me would be you and only you...Congratulations

Edit: During the time I made the ants post I initially put "crushing ants" but quell seems to be a lighter word...I was going for better imagery but I never knew anything at the time to describe Blackendorf flamers so take this as an apology if people were offended by being related to ants.


Not to sound like a nitpicker but having punishable attacks has been a niche for any fighter in the history of fighters and seeing as Ganondorf is a bulky hitter, it makes sense that those high damaging hits be more punishable. So my claim is Ganondorf being punish based has little to do with his franchise but with the way his character was designed in Smash.

All of LoZ's combat is pretty much punish based

Ganon is pretty much the character that focuses on amazing punish toolkit compared to everyone else who just has the ability to punish. Do you see the difference?

What you're saying is like comparing Fox and Samus and saying they're both "ranged" characters because they have moves that are used from a distance, when in actuality Fox has a ranged tool, and Samus has a ranged toolkit.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

All of LoZ's combat is pretty much punish based

Ganon is pretty much the character that focuses on amazing punish toolkit compared to everyone else who just has the ability to punish. Do you see the difference?

What you're saying is like comparing Fox and Samus and saying they're both "ranged" characters because they have moves that are used from a distance, when in actuality Fox has a ranged tool, and Samus has a ranged toolkit.

If your claim is true then all LOZ characters should have this "punish toolkit" unless this only applies to bosses you face in LOZ games which is difficult to compare because Ganondorf is the only boss character in Smash making him incomparable.

Your claim is a bit of a curveball because I can argue that Bowser has a punish toolkit which is reinforced with his armor. This favours my above claim because Bowser is without question a bulky fighter...similar to Ganondorf.

Project M aims to give characters their own level of flair, even though they may have semi-similar mechanics, their style is different so I won't be comparing Fox and Samus like your above example but I will try to compare mechanics like Bowser and Ganondorf...this is also a curveball statement...this is why Blackendorf is a moot point (just saying)

 

[GeZ]

Making bad points? As far as I'm concerned with you, your points were "My friend will quit the game if this change happens" and "People like Ganondorf the way he is"

1.Your friend is not the majority (minority, not a valid point)
2.Who are these people? There are those in the forums who have approved of this idea (for), then there are people who didn't mind the change (neutral), then there are those who are passively against it; they rather not have it but if the change happened they still support Project M and will adjust (whatever)...once again the minority

These are new points to the additional points I left for you which are all factual and not opinion-based like yours, so I ask that you go back and reread the points I sent before if you have something to say. If not, walk away from this topic altogether...I'm tired

You're just wrong. Go in to the Ganon boards and ask. They wouldn't like it. They're not "cool with it". It's not just my opinion it's people who play the characters opinion. Most of them. Until you play the character, and then play them well, and then become the majority of Ganon mains, it won't be a minority opinion.

Like, have you talked to a Ganon main? Do people know they exist? Are you high?

And stop riding your own ****. You're saying that these opinions you've collected aren't opinion based? How high are you?

 

[PlateProp]

If your claim is true then all LOZ characters should have this "punish toolkit" unless this only applies to bosses you face in LOZ games which is difficult to compare because Ganondorf is the only boss character making him incomparable.

Your claim is a bit of a curveball because I can argue that Bowser has a punish toolkit which is reinforced with his armor. This favours my above claim because Bowser is without question a bulky fighter...similar to Ganondorf.

Project M aims to give characters their own level of flair, even though they may have semi-similar mechanics, their style is different so I won't be comparing Fox and Samus like your above example but I will try to compare mechanics like Bowser and Ganondorf...this is also a curveball statement...this is why Blackendorf is a moot point (just saying)

I'm not trying to defend Blackendorf at all, just the fact that Ganon's moveset is actually faithful to the combat style games.

But Bowser? Pretty sure Bowser isint punish based, he's tank based where you try to plow through moves to hit. Ie, how a tank in an MMO will generally absorb powerful moves while plowing through with their own.

Doesn't really work very well for Bowser though :/ Somehow Squirtle makes tanking moves with less armour than Bowser and gets away with it though lol

 

[GeZ]

Actually, **** it, @Scuba Steve @CORY @Hungry Headcrab are you guys in favor of, or neutral to, Ganondorfs moveset going on black shadow so he can get a new one?

 

[ZeruSlayer]

I'm not trying to defend Blackendorf at all, just the fact that Ganon's moveset is actually faithful to the combat style games.

But Bowser? Pretty sure Bowser isint punish based, he's tank based where you try to plow through moves to hit. Ie, how a tank in an MMO will generally absorb powerful moves while plowing through with their own.

Doesn't really work very well for Bowser though :/ Somehow Squirtle makes tanking moves with less armour than Bowser and gets away with it though lol

I wasn't confident in my statement either, so thanks for the correction . The issue is that Ganon's moveset isn't 100% faithful to LOZ's Ganon, I think that we can agree upon.

Bowser can be punished fairly easy with the tank mechanic so is it a stretch to say he's a bit of both?

Yeah, Ganon in terms of playstyle is hard to compare with the current cast if you're looking at mechanics. If it were moveset then I would be comparing him to Capt. Falcon but that's not the argument. Oh well

You're just wrong. Go in to the Ganon boards and ask. They wouldn't like it. They're not "cool with it". It's not just my opinion it's people who play the characters opinion. Most of them. Until you play the character, and then play them well, and then become the majority of Ganon mains, it won't be a minority opinion.

Like, have you talked to a Ganon main? Do people know they exist? Are you high?

And stop riding your own ****. You're saying that these opinions you've collected aren't opinion based? How high are you?

I'm going to ignore your "How high are you?" comments to attempt to look at your points with some sensibility.

1. Ganon boards are as it's name implies, a cesspool of Ganon supporters. It's like me going into a burger place and ordering chicken, it makes no sense. This thread is a speculation and voting thread, the votes decide how certain characters are looked upon even though I know that the Smashboards community is only a fraction of the Smash supporters. So using this thread as a reference point, my claim still stands. In other words in this thread I can either be correct or you can accept this to be a moot point, I can't be deemed wrong unless you know the opinions of every single Smasher...which you don't.

2.You stated in your argument before "people". I'm not psychic so how can I translate "people" to Ganondorf mains?

3. You don't know anything about statistics do you so I will give you elementary school statistics 101 (the only statistics I know). Statistics (involving opinions) become factual when the following are achieved:

When the way the question (opinion) is designed/said is not biased (You have unlimited down votes, you're not being pressured into anything, if you don't like the character then down vote)

When the people (voters/opinions) are chosen at random (every member is random because the "voting admins" did not choose who does/does not vote)

The voting is maintained and controlled (the current voting system and the "voting admins" do a good job of this)​

So before you send your friends to start a commotion. I hope they have the common sense to not ruin the sanctity of this thread with a flame war and they post their opinions and votes then leave.

 

[cmvnb3]

Ganondorf would be completely true to his ocarina of time self if his B button special was replaced with a ball lightning charged projectile and the ability to hover like Mewtwo and to have a better Up-B and jumps, considering that he can fly, which makes his poor jumping seem wrong. I say re-tweak dorf just moderately and then don't waste a slot on black falcon. I'm guessing without the dorf package deal Black falcon wouldn't be nearly as popular. I'm basically suggesting to keep Ganondorf mostly similar to his Falcon-clone self but with some extra abilities and a projectile on B.

 

[PlateProp]

Ganondorf would be completely true to his ocarina of time self if his B button special was replaced with a ball lightning charged projectile and the ability to hover like Mewtwo and to have a better Up-B and jumps, considering that he can fly, which makes his poor jumping seem wrong. I say re-tweak dorf just moderately and then don't waste a slot on black falcon. I'm guessing without the dorf package deal Black falcon wouldn't be nearly as popular. I'm basically suggesting to keep Ganondorf mostly similar to his Falcon-clone self but with some extra abilities and a projectile on B.

While I could dig a projectile on Ganon, Warlock Punch is too badass.

Maybe we can go the Minus way but opposite whwre tapping B gets the projectile while holding Warlock Punches.

Tho ganon prolly doesnt have any articles to make into Projectilea

 

[Shin F.]

While I could dig a projectile on Ganon, Warlock Punch is too badass.

Maybe we can go the Minus way but opposite whwre tapping B gets the projectile while holding Warlock Punches.

Tho ganon prolly doesnt have any articles to make into Projectilea

Think his sword might be one? Not like he uses it for anything else, so if it is, might as well sacrifice it for something worthwhile.

 

[LeeYawshee]

Actually, **** it, @Scuba Steve @CORY @Hungry Headcrab are you guys in favor of, or neutral to, Ganondorfs moveset going on black shadow so he can get a new one?

I'm not one of the people, but I am totally against it. I'm a fan of Ganondorf's moveset and I hate the idea of another character taking it away from him.

 

[PlateProp]

Think his sword might be one? Not like he uses it for anything else, so if it is, might as well sacrifice it for something worthwhile.

Derp, Ganon should have articles, the Minus Crew gave him a projectile afterall

 

[JCOnyx]

Also, in case you don't know. Lucas's Alt isn't actually just supposed to be Masked Man. It's a disguise he wears to look like him in Mother 3, so not exactly Masked Man.

It's not exactly MM, but the FSmash change to a sword makes it seem less like Lucas and more like MM. It's more of a cosplay in my opinion and not his disguise that he puts on in Mother 3.

All in all, I have little to no hope for the characters that are being cosplayed making it into PM.

 

[Anti Guy]

I wasn't confident in my statement either, so thanks for the correction . The issue is that Ganon's moveset isn't 100% faithful to LOZ's Ganon, I think that we can agree upon.

Bowser can be punished fairly easy with the tank mechanic so is it a stretch to say he's a bit of both?

Yeah, Ganon in terms of playstyle is hard to compare with the current cast if you're looking at mechanics. If it were moveset then I would be comparing him to Capt. Falcon but that's not the argument. Oh well



I'm going to ignore your "How high are you?" comments to attempt to look at your points with some sensibility.

1. Ganon boards are as it's name implies, a cesspool of Ganon supporters. It's like me going into a burger place and ordering chicken, it makes no sense. This thread is a speculation and voting thread, the votes decide how certain characters are looked upon even though I know that the Smashboards community is only a fraction of the Smash supporters. So using this thread as a reference point, my claim still stands. In other words in this thread I can either be correct or you can accept this to be a moot point, I can't be deemed wrong unless you know the opinions of every single Smasher...which you don't.

2.You stated in your argument before "people". I'm not psychic so how can I translate "people" to Ganondorf mains?

3. You don't know anything about statistics do you so I will give you elementary school statistics 101 (the only statistics I know). Statistics (involving opinions) become factual when the following are achieved:

When the way the question (opinion) is designed/said is not biased (You have unlimited down votes, you're not being pressured into anything, if you don't like the character then down vote)

When the people (voters/opinions) are chosen at random (every member is random because the "voting admins" did not choose who does/does not vote)

The voting is maintained and controlled (the current voting system and the "voting admins" do a good job of this)​

So before you send your friends to start a commotion. I hope they have the common sense to not ruin the sanctity of this thread with a flame war and they post their opinions and votes then leave.

To be fair, while the Ganondorf boards may be a "cesspool" of Ganondorf supporters, it's still very important to have their blessing. Because unlike all other candidates here, this is the only one that actually causes a change in a current one (even though it would be cosmetic).

 

[LeeYawshee]

Derp, Ganon should have articles, the Minus Crew gave him a projectile afterall

Fake projectile that spawns with the use of an item.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

To be fair, while the Ganondorf boards may be a "cesspool" of Ganondorf supporters, it's still very important to have their blessing. Because unlike all other candidates here, this is the only one that actually causes a change in a current one (even though it would be cosmetic).

You misunderstood my point. I'm not denying anyone here. Everyone is free to make their decisions and I welcome new opinions and votes. What I meant to say was that I'm not going to go out of my way and bring Ganon supporters (like GeZ) and leave a biased comment (like Gez) to skew the votes.

I stated before that because of this drastic change that it is close to impossible for Blackendorf to be a thing but when there are people (like GeZ) who act as if whatever he says is fact and doesn't listen to the feelings or opinions of others...that's when I have a problem.

 

[GeZ]

You misunderstood my point. I'm not denying anyone here. Everyone is free to make their decisions and I welcome new opinions and votes. What I meant to say was that I'm not going to go out of my way and bring Ganon supporters (like GeZ) and leave a biased comment (like Gez) to skew the votes.

I stated before that because of this drastic change that it is close to impossible for Blackendorf to be a thing but when there are people (like GeZ) who act as if whatever he says is fact and doesn't listen to the feelings or opinions of others...that's when I have a problem.

It's not biased, it's their character. Their vote means more because they're the actual player base which is why this won't happen. Why the hell would other random non Ganon mains be more or even equally as pertinent? Seriously, go ask a PMBR member on their wall if this is being considered and post results. Watch me be right.

Edit: and I'm listening to the opinions of the characters player base, just like the PMBR makes the game based on the opinions of its existing player base rather than the brawl or melee communities. Literally, I'm arguing as the dev team thinks.

 

[PlateProp]

It's not biased, it's their character. Their vote means more because they're the actual player base which is why this won't happen. Why the hell would other random non Ganon mains be more or even equally as pertinent? Seriously, go ask a PMBR member on their wall if this is being considered and post results. Watch me be right.

Edit: and I'm listening to the opinions of the characters player base, just like the PMBR makes the game based on the opinions of its existing player base rather than the brawl or melee communities. Literally, I'm arguing as the dev team thinks.

Pfft like the PMBR actually cares about the thoughts of us pleibs....

Real talk tho, no one here is supporting Blaxkendorf, so you're just like arguing with a brick wall.

Real talk two tho, Ganon mains dont get more of a say than anyone else, that's like saying "oh you people over in florida get more of a say what happens in alabama than people from alabama actually get"

Not how da usa be rolling my friend

 

[Anti Guy]

Pfft like the PMBR actually cares about the thoughts of us pleibs....

Real talk tho, no one here is supporting Blaxkendorf, so you're just like arguing with a brick wall.

Real talk two tho, Ganon mains dont get more of a say than anyone else, that's like saying "oh you people over in florida get more of a say what happens in alabama than people from alabama actually get"

Not how da usa be rolling my friend

What are you talking about? Your analogy does not make sense at all. It's more like asking people in Florida if they're okay with changing their state's name to something else (so that we can name a new state Florida instead). Alabama is completely irrelevant.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

How the hell did suggesting adding a non-Legend of Zelda character (Black Shadow) and giving him a Ganondorf-from-the-LoZ-games-ish moveset so as to not disrupt current Ganondorf mains devolve into another vanilla Black-Shadow-skinned-over-current-Ganondorf-and-adding-faithful-to-source-material-Ganondorf-as-a-separate-character argument? My original intention of bringing up my original idea up again was to completely avoid this argument again.

Was it just because GeZ didn't like it, ironically, hilariously? What about the other Ganondorf mains who might be interested in indirectly receiving a new Ganondorf in the form of an F-Zero character, without affecting their current Falcondorf at all? No Black Shadow skin over Ganondorf--I meant adding Black Shadow as his own separate character, while giving him some of Ganondorf's abilities from his games, and dressing them all up to fit Black Shadow's persona.

i.e. another new character just like the other candidates.

Ugh.

 

[GeZ]

Pfft like the PMBR actually cares about the thoughts of us pleibs....

Real talk tho, no one here is supporting Blaxkendorf, so you're just like arguing with a brick wall.

Real talk two tho, Ganon mains dont get more of a say than anyone else, that's like saying "oh you people over in florida get more of a say what happens in alabama than people from alabama actually get"

Not how da usa be rolling my friend

One of the prominent programmers avoids this site because of threads like this, so you're first statement is not wrong.

And I'm arguing with someone who thought it was not unreasonable.

Also it's like the reverse of what you're saying. I don't know how you got it so twisted. The people in Alabama do get more of a say on what happens in relation to Alabama. That's literally what I said.

Basically this:

What are you talking about? Your analogy does not make sense at all. It's more like asking people in Florida if they're okay with changing their state's name to something else (so that we can name a new state Florida instead). Alabama is completely irrelevant.

 

[Friesnchip]

Here are my thoughts:

- Black Shadow is a dumb villain, and there are more iconic F-Zero racers to add to Smash
- Ganon players would feel a disconnect playing a different character with their practiced moveset
- Ganon is able to have a stance change where he can possess both his standard moveset, and a unique sword based one

So, why aren't we voting for the PMBR to add the sword feature instead of wasting a clone engine slot on a character people only want in order to change Ganon? I've been watching this thread since page 1 (now I'm even tallying votes for everyone as well), and I have yet to see a genuine reason why people want Black Shadow just for the character itself.

This argument continues to come about repeatedly and add nothing new to the discussion; this is all waste of time in my eyes.

 

[GeZ]

How the hell did suggesting adding a non-Legend of Zelda character (Black Shadow) and giving him a Ganondorf-from-the-LoZ-games-ish moveset so as to not disrupt current Ganondorf mains devolve into another vanilla Black-Shadow-skinned-over-current-Ganondorf-and-adding-faithful-to-source-material-Ganondorf-as-a-separate-character argument? My original intention of bringing up my original idea up again was to completely avoid this argument again.

Was it just because GeZ didn't like it, ironically, hilariously? What about the other Ganondorf mains who might be interested in indirectly receiving a new Ganondorf in the form of an F-Zero character, without affecting their current Falcondorf at all? No Black Shadow skin over Ganondorf--I meant adding Black Shadow as his own separate character, while giving him some of Ganondorf's abilities from his games, and dressing them all up to fit Black Shadow's persona.

i.e. another new character just like the other candidates.

Ugh.

Wasn't ironically, your suggestion literally satisfies no one. If you're going to advocate for the ignoring of a certain player base go ham. Being halfsees is worse in that instance.

You act like this is such a chore, when it's just a break from vapid agreement masturbation around like 5 alternating characters. Is real discussion really that tiring? @Saito probably shouldn't have brought me in. I just make sure everyone knows the points their arguing are semi inconsiquentail, point out that the counter arguments make no sense, and leave back to the productive part of the forums again.

This place is hell. Bad ideas floating around with people actively being repulsed by having a conversation. Lord save the public image of this game based on these forums.

 

[GeZ]

Here are my thoughts:

- Black Shadow is a dumb villain, and there are more iconic F-Zero racers to add to Smash
- Ganon players would feel a disconnect playing a different character with their practiced moveset
- Ganon is able to have a stance change where he can possess both his standard moveset, and a unique sword based one

So, why aren't we voting for the PMBR to add the sword feature instead of wasting a clone engine slot on a character people only want in order to change Ganon? I've been watching this thread since page 1 (now I'm even tallying votes for everyone as well), and I have yet to see a genuine reason why people want Black Shadow just for the character itself.

This argument continues to come about repeatedly and add nothing new to the discussion; this is all waste of time in my eyes.

Because a sword feature would of course never happen, like the other idea, clearly. That one has been straight disproven. It's not even a good idea. No way to balance it well, it's not conducive to what the character wants, etc, etc. Following this sea of piss from day one doesn't mean you have better ideas in relation to it as it turns out. Try visiting other parts of the site. More relevant stuff is discussed/ discovered.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

It's not biased, it's their character. Their vote means more because they're the actual player base which is why this won't happen. Why the hell would other random non Ganon mains be more or even equally as pertinent? Seriously, go ask a PMBR member on their wall if this is being considered and post results. Watch me be right.

The way you designed the question is biased, which goes against the first and second rule of opinion statistics. Read it and you'll know why if you don't understand then check the spoiler.

Spoiler

Are you guys in favor of, or neutral to, Ganondorfs moveset going on black shadow so he can get a new one? Firstly, you the questioner is not neutral. And your actually **** it post already directs your intention of how you want the question to be answered. Secondly, you are bringing Ganon supporters, which I don't dislike because I'm curious about their opinion. But these Ganon supporters are people you know and personally selected (controlled voting) so I'm not stupid enough to take their opinions as the opinion of all Ganon supporters

"Watch me be right"? Stop stroking your ego, this became a conversation about Blackendorf and now to you it's become a battle between who's right? This has nothing to do with right or wrong. To me it has everything to do with bringing a stubborn child back down to Earth

You think the PMBR is at your or my beck and call? Please. They have better things to do like polishing the new version before the end of the year than to stroke your ego but if you think you're so entitled then you go ahead and ask them yourself since you know everything in the world.

I'm going to make one thing clear, nobodies opinions as far as this voting is concerned are superior or inferior to others. Even Vigilante's (a PMBR member) opinion on his preferred characters I treat the same as someone who just signed up to Smashboards just to post their votes. I dislike elitist/self-entitled people like yourself who think you're above everyone else because you put more effort in a game. Please grow up.

 

[Anti Guy]

If you want a much better analogy here (and it's probably one Alfonzo would like), it would be like the NBA is now thinking about trying to expand. Many cities could start a new franchise, no problem. But one of the cities, Kansas City, would like its name back (Kansas City Kings: 1972 - 1975). Unfortunately, that's being used by Sacramento, and the name doesn't really make sense there... yet it would make more sense in Kansas City (though it nearly isn't as bad as the "Lakers" or "Jazz"). Unfortunately, you can't do that without the Kings' permission -- which ultimately comes down to their fans.

Alright I think I need to sleep.

 

[GeZ]

Cute, but wrong. They have accounts on here for a reason. You can just post stuff on there. I have before. They're not on this high pedestal. I'm not being stubborn I'm just showing that this has been discussed to death before by more well versed in the meta people.

If you've noticed, there's a slim group that views what I'm saying as elitist because it's just not. I didn't make any claim to knowing much more than everyone else, but I think asking is totally feasible, so I will.

 

[Shin F.]

If you're going to advocate for the ignoring of a certain player base go ham.

Okay, I've gotta ask: How is his suggestion ignoring any portion of the player base? It acknowledges that Ganon mains want him to stay the same - and he does.

It acknowledges that fans of the Ganondorf portrayed in the Legend of Zelda want a more accurate depiction of him in Smash - and they get a compromise and the ability to add their own Ganondorf skins to the new character.

It even acknowledges the people who want Black Shadow just for the sake of having the character, however few there are, and they get him. Since he doesn't have much to work with outside his car (like Captain Falcon), it may not even be an inaccurate depiction of the character.

 

[PlateProp]

What are you talking about? Your analogy does not make sense at all. It's more like asking people in Florida if they're okay with changing their state's name to something else (so that we can name a new state Florida instead). Alabama is completely irrelevant.

Exactly.

Because I forgot where I was gojng with that.

I blame binge powerleveling this Jolteon

Edit: THREE MORE LEVELS

Edit2: Oh yeah it makes sense because Ganon mains are like Alabama, irrelevant

 

[GeZ]

Okay, I've gotta ask: How is his suggestion ignoring any portion of the player base? It acknowledges that Ganon mains want him to stay the same - and he does. It acknowledges that fans of the Ganondorf portrayed in the Legend of Zelda want a more accurate depiction of him in Smash - and they get a compromise and the ability to add their own Ganondorf skins to the new character. It even acknowledges the people who want Black Shadow just for the sake of having the character, however few there are, and they get him. Since he doesn't have much to work with outside his car (like Captain Falcon), it may not even be an inaccurate depiction of the character.

Sentence structure dictates that I was implying his suggestion satisfies no one completely, so I was saying if he's going to make some suggestion to alter a character or add an altered character, he should just make that suggestion bodily.

And the suggestion would ignore those who want Ganondorfs more to Canon moveset on Ganondorf and not Black Shadow.

Edit: I addressed your original point but it still stands. Skins don't compare to real game features.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Wasn't ironically, your suggestion literally satisfies no one.

Satisfies me.

If you're going to advocate for the ignoring of a certain player base go ham. Being halfsees is worse in that instance.

How am I ignoring the Zelda fanbase OR the F-Zero fanbase? Hell, I'm not even ignoring the Smash fanbase, which genuinely loves Falcondorf and would hate to see it changed. By adding a new character that doesn't affect people like you, I'm making sure no one gets hurt.

Is real discussion really that tiring? @Saito probably shouldn't have brought me in. I just make sure everyone knows the points their arguing are semi inconsiquentail, point out that the counter arguments make no sense, and leave back to the productive part of the forums again.

Our talking here isn't completely inconsequential, don't be presumptuous. We're communicating to the makers of this mod which characters we'd like to happen. Also, I'd like to point out in turn that your counterargument that adding Black Shadow as his own character with Ganondorf-like elements would not satisfy no one. You don't know that.

Sentence structure dictates that I was implying his suggestion satisfies no one completely, so I was saying if he's going to make some suggestion to alter a character or add an altered character, he should just make that suggestion bodily.

And the suggestion would ignore those who want Ganondorfs more to Canon moveset on Ganondorf and not Black Shadow.

That's because those people (like me) have given up on that strictly because of people like you, who say they don't want change. At least with my way, Ganondorf is still there in spirit, just as another character who might actually fight like Ganondorf himself out of his vehicle because, like Captain Falcon, he's a blank slate, and it can be imagined that he'd fight that way.

 

[Shin F.]

Sentence structure dictates that I was implying his suggestion satisfies no one completely, so I was saying if he's going to make some suggestion to alter a character or add an altered character, he should just make that suggestion bodily.

Yes, it would satisfy some parts only partly. That's why it's called a compromise. Unlike other suggestions, though, it does acknowledge and partially fulfill the desires of every side.

And the suggestion would ignore those who want Ganondorfs more to Canon moveset on Ganondorf and not Black Shadow.

So - the portion you're suggesting should be ignored anyways? The part that you're arguing against right now?

Either way, you'd be wrong about this part, considering that he is one of the people (along with myself) who are a part of that portion of the fanbase.

Unless you're telling me you know more about what this part of the fanbase wants than that part of the fanbase wants, itself? If so, that would be ironic, considering you've been preaching that we shouldn't do this to current Ganondorf mains.

 

[GeZ]

I can see that being a more reasonable request, but in that case I would just want another Ganondorf. The idea functions fine, it's just been broken down to such minutiae it doesn't seem really appealing to anyone anymore. Just some drudge work that gets brought up whenever I get dragged back here.

Like serious. I didn't want to come back. It's obvious I don't think much of this place. Don't shoot the messenger. Someone else wanted my one contrary opinion to flood this board again.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

I could counter majority of your posts but I can't be bothered, this conversation has proven you're self-entitled, stubborn, and arrogant. I gave you multiple chances to walk away with this entire conversation being moot which is completely in your favor because you have neither added any viable facts nor said anything remotely constructive. The only way to stop someone as arrogant as yourself is to let you stroke your ego so GeZ, you win...go high five yourself or something. Now I can go and live my life without the need of swallowing my pride to your insults and your opinions which you claim to be fact with no proof (because you claim you're being fair; even though now and even before in our last conversation when you lashed out and got a warning I gave you the light of day and listened to your opinion. I respected your opinions and responded as such, never once insulting you, until now because you are acting like an immature child).

To everyone humoring GeZ, please stop. He's too arrogant, he only sees his opinion as fact and nobody else matters. It's the equivalent of talking to a brick wall...no reception

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

At least you understand me again. I just wanted to clarify why I liked my idea is all. While I can understand why you'd just want another Ganondorf, to me getting a second form of Ganon would entail using his more interesting pig-form, not another human Ganondorf that got it right this time (which Black Shadow could fill in for). But that's just me.

And yeah, Saito can be a troll, lol

 

[GeZ]

Argued so hard I crashed the site.

@ ZeruSlayer But in reality, while some of my posts here reflect poorly on me, I did help write the Mario guide, I have played with a developer to test balance, I've been an emissary from the forums to some designers and back, I've discovered new tech and glitches and done my best to help them get removed, etc, etc.

And you've done...?

Like, admittedly, this is a dumb point, but I love it, so c'mon.

 

[PlateProp]

Argued so hard I crashed the site.

@ ZeruSlayer But in reality, while some of my posts here reflect poorly on me, I did help write the Mario guide, I have played with a developer to test balance, I've been an emissary from the forums to some designers and back, I've discovered new tech and glitches and done my best to help them get removed, etc, etc.

And you've done...?

Doing things =/= right to be an arrogant asshole

If anything it takes away from these things.

 

[GeZ]

Doing things =/= right to be an arrogant *******

If anything it takes away from these things.

That's not the point I'm making at all. I'm just saying at the end of the day, I've contributed more, objectively.

Plus my romance with the PMBR members individually and as a whole knows no bounds.

Edit: plus, I don't take this board seriously at all. Like, it's pretty obvious I'm not trying to garner support from you guys. Like, real talk, I don't see any of you around the forums proper, so why would this be an issue?