New AT: Jigglypuff's Shield-Breaker "Combo"

[The_Jiggernaut]

Alright guys, it's time for some previously-undocumented Jiggly tech. Ready?

You can break any opponent's shield from full with a quick, two-hit "combo": Pound to Nair

If an opponent is shielding a little too much, you can jump towards them and hit their shield with a rising pound to end up centred over them and nair as you fall back down. Rising pound gives you the height you need to preform nair before landing (for smaller characters) and also takes you out of their grab-range when spaced correctly. Most of the time you can buffer it by mashing A during your pound making it not too difficult to pull off, though the nair will shield poke when done incorrectly.

You can then rest or fully charge a smash for the kill. Sounds awesome right? That's why it's impossible for this to have any flaws or drawbacks!







Flaws and Drawbacks:

Ooops. Well as the quotation marks in "Combo" imply, it's not a true combo. Which is fine because it would be patched instantly if it was. The enemy has to keep their shield up the entire time for this to work. The enemy is also able to roll away or even just allow themselves to get hit by the nair, which is more of a neutral outcome for you.

Some characters can punish with an upsmash if they see this coming (though others are too slow to do this), If you read this properly on the slower characters you can rest, but it's generally an unfavorable outcome.


However, spot-dodging to punish has to be near frame-perfect in order to punish the nair, and they shouldn't be able to grab you if you've positioned properly. So despite these drawbacks, it's relatively safe and has little ending lag. Even if someone is aware of the Shield-Breaker Combo and takes pains to avoid it, it still puts a tremendous about of pressure on them when they want to play defensive and that can be more valuable than a single stock in a tournament set.



(I'll put a video together upon request)

 

[Alain]

Video request plox

 

[Jonney]

Seconding a Video Request. Sounds great but I need to see it in action.

 

[ZHMT]

This is gimmicky. Pound is like -20 to -30 frames on block, almost any character can up b out of shield or up smash out of shield. A lot of characters can actually jump out of shield and hit you with an aerial. There isn't enough shieldstun for this to blockstrong with anything.

Late pound and drifting in and resting their shield is a lot more difficult but can actually be a thing, even that though is a gimmick really.

Put it this way, pounding Puffs shield will let her jump out of shield and rest the Puff that pounded 100% of the time.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Video will be a bit delayed, sorry guys. The footage was lost due to Twitch changing some default settings around. However, PNDMike is on the case and might get replacement footage for us. At the very least I'll be at the tournament he's hosting in 5 days, so that's the max time you have to wait.


Well ZHMT, I did say that it wasn't flawed and punishable. Every character can at least escape it and probably every character can punish it. IF they read what you're doing. Most of the time, it will go unpunished and you won't land the Nair.

It's a punish for people who block improperly. It's clearly a mistake on their part if they let you pull it off. Just like if you pound a shield and they let you pound their shield again before it recharges. Just like a host of characters jabbing jiggs, giving her the rest punish.

If they want to not make those "mistakes" they have to play around it, which is a type of pressure. The Shield-Breaker Combo will almost never be seen in a real match, but as long as the other player knows about it, it's existence applies pressure, and that's why it's useful.

 

[Hoejja]

I feel like most of us grab after shielding a pound... but very interesting stuff.

What if the opponent is shielding on a plateform above you ? Wouldn't they be more likely to shield both attacks ?

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

It'll be more evident in the video but when done correctly, Jigglypuff will be out of grab range. More specifically, she'll be higher than it. Doesn't mean she can't be punished with other things, however.

I'm not sure about your question. First off, unless there's a power shield involved, no shield can take both attacks without breaking. If they're above Jigglypuff on a platform, that means they're too high for her to try to break their shield. Hopefully having the video ready will answer your question.

 

[Hoejja]

Why would they be too high ?

 

[ZHMT]

I'm not saying it can't work, I'm just saying that in order for it to work the opponent has to either be ignorant of their character, the matchup, or just have abysmal out of shield options. With the freezeframes and startup of pound, you have plenty of time to react and a half a second to punish.

Its probably best to substitute this with. safe bair + safe bair or fair + pound = shield break.

In ssb64 I can see this working better as that game had a lot more shieldstun so the pound would be safer.

But who knows, maybe there's something here I'm missing, Ill wait for the video.

 

[Chacrecon]

Normally just two pounds can do the trick with inexperienced players, but I might have to incorporate this when up against harder smashers.

 

[Pazx]

I'm not saying it can't work, I'm just saying that in order for it to work the opponent has to either be ignorant of their character, the matchup, or just have abysmal out of shield options. With the freezeframes and startup of pound, you have plenty of time to react and a half a second to punish.

Its probably best to substitute this with. safe bair + safe bair or fair + pound = shield break.

In ssb64 I can see this working better as that game had a lot more shieldstun so the pound would be safer.

But who knows, maybe there's something here I'm missing, Ill wait for the video.

OP: Here's a cool trick, it's not very useful though
ZHMT: It's not very useful though, in fact I don't really see this working at all
OP: Yeah, I know

It would be kinda neat if it worked but I'm very sure that literally everybody will do something once their shield gets hit by pound. That move is dangerous. Nice idea, though.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Somewhat related to the problem--I'd be interested in seeing the frame (dis)advantage on a very late Pound hit on shield. I wonder if it's decent enough where mashing Rest afterward would be a viable (if risky) way to counter some opponents' attempted punishes. You're invincible on Frame 1 and the Rest hitbox is active on Frames 2-4, so...

 

[Darklink401]

Somewhat related to the problem--I'd be interested in seeing the frame (dis)advantage on a very late Pound hit on shield. I wonder if it's decent enough where mashing Rest afterward would be a viable (if risky) way to counter some opponents' attempted punishes. You're invincible on Frame 1 and the Rest hitbox is active on Frames 2-4, so...

That is literally the most risky thing ever.