Ness vs. Charizard

[Delta-cod]

Charizard MU discussion.

 

[Uffe]

Does it strike anybody else as odd that I have an easier time against Charizard than I do Bowser? Definitely a Pokemon I would learn if he were his own character. Anyway, we all know he's got a death grab on Ness and that it doesn't really help when you fight against him. You're better off taking him to stages that have transformations. I remember fighting this really good Pokemon Trainer recently named Buuda. I think it was him that I was fighting and I took him to Castle Siege and he tried to death grab me there, but the transformation saved me more than enough times.

Ness' aerials are obviously better than Charizard's. Because Charizard is a heavy character, Ness can easily combo him. PK Fire is okay against Charizard. I'm sure they can DI out of it easier than Bowser, but I feel that the attack is still effective against Charizard. Little damage is better than no damage, I suppose. If you get Charizard off the stage, don't be afraid to use PK Thunder. Just spam the heck out of that attack until he returns to the stage. If you feel like it, I guess you could go for a dair spike or whatever attack you feel is necessary at that time.

When fighting Charizard, you've got to watch out for his Rock Smash and his fair. One launches debris and the other shoots ember, which obviously do a bit amount of damage. If you're close enough to Charizard and you get hit by that Rock Smash, it does a lot of damage, so that's one thing to look out for. Charizard's got some nasty smash attacks, too. I'm not sure how early his f-smash kills, but it might kill around the double digits, I'm not sure.

When you're recovering back to the stage, do your best to be above or at mid level of the stage. If you're below stage level, you'll either get dair spiked or they'll use Flamethrower to try and keep you from coming back. That's all I have for now, I guess.

 

[orange/xd]

can he dtilt us out of a grab release?

 

[Zigsta]

can he dtilt us out of a grab release?

Yeah, it's guaranteed.

Ness does great when he's underneath Charizard, as our only two options are nair and dair. Nair comes out faster, but it's still slow. Odds are if you send a Charizard upwards, it will DI to the side to position for a bair, fair, or Rock Smash. Charizard also has a grab release CG on Ness. Be careful with your jumps upon a release on the edge, as Charizard can use Flamethrower to eat your jumps and then take a stock with a quick fair. Our fsmash will KO in double digits, but not many Charizards use that move very often since it's got a lot of ending lag. Also make sure you don't spam fair or dair too often; you'll just get shieldgrabbed or upsmashed out of shield.

In short, this is a really easy matchup for Charizard. Ness is one of the few characters that PT handles easily.

 

[Steeler]

yeah he can dtilt, and it'll kill you around 100 if he grab releases to the edge of the stage.

ness HAS to juggle charizard and pressure him off stage. pkt is probably your best bet, zard has a hard time maneuvering around that and hitting the head.

pk fire is good if you hit and can lead to a nice string, but it's not a very good projectile and leaves you open to a grab if it is shielded or something.

ness has to play it really safe because messing up can mean a grab release chain or rock smash or something.

it could be a fairly even matchup, but i think charizard has a slight edge because of the gay stuff he can do.

 

[T-block]

I'd like to point out that on any stage with a well-defined ledge (ie- all neutrals) you're in serious danger of losing a stock if you get grabbed at any percent. Charizard moves forward quite a bit with each regrab with the standing grab release, so if you hang out near the edge you shouldn't be taking much more than 30% from it. However, even if you do hang out near the edge, he can also dashgrab you to the edge, pummel release, Flamethrower to steal your second jump, then jump out after you and edgeguard you appropriately (f-air, d-air, eat the PKT). If you do it right I'm pretty sure the only way to avoid it is to SDI the flames up to catch the ledge, and I think if I aim it correctly it's nearly impossible to do even that. And Charizard has the second-best non-tether grab in the game I believe, so it's not unheard of to grab even Ness.

Juggling Charizard is fairly easy... he's pretty susceptible to PKT juggling. That's one plus for Ness I guess.

I think it's a pretty bad matchup... almost as bad as Squirtle. You need platforms because of how devastating getting grabbed is, but being above Charizard is not a good place to be either.

 

[Uffe]

Ness can tail whip with his PKT by the way. Just thought I'd point that out. Getting rid of PKT won't be easy unless they just aim it directly at Charizard.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Charizard I find a little difficult to play against, not as crazy as Squirtle though. Thanks to Charizard's grab release, that makes it more dangerous to approach him. However, it shouldn't be easy for Ness to get grab if Ness is in the air with his air speed. The main problem is that Charizard has a lot of kill options, and range to back that up. Gimping should be even with both Ness and Charizard. †

♪ Anyone tried PK Thunder whipping Charizard to force using his jumps to come back? :3 †

 

[T-block]

Yeah offstage against Ness is a very bad place for Charizard to be. PKT is hard to avoid, and he's a big d-air target.