Ness Tech Encyclopedia - Collection of All Techniques

[TreeFire80]

That's called the phenomenon of full range PKT2, which simply means that the trajectory of PKT does not dictate the direction you are propelled.

It's been known since melee. You can get creative with it, but it's nothing new, just tricky. I talk about this in my PKT recovery guide as well.

I get that it may not be new and all, but there's no chatter around it and every guide I've seen (yours is fantastic by the way) only shows it used in the air in a "this is why you might have gone this way that you weren't expecting" context. I'm just specifically referring to a pre-meditated grounded PKT2 where Ness gets launched to the opposite direction than the PKT is travelling and its mix-up and offensive potential. I just think it's worthy of its own mention as this is a collection of Ness' techniques and this is indeed a pretty hard technique.

Nobody I've seen in competitive play uses it, so no one really knows it exists. No one even uses this thread anymore for reference, it's pretty much dead.

I mean, the whole board is very quiet on the whole anyways. I think that since this is linked from the Saturn Valley sticky post, that it should/might be one of the resources new players would look to and learn from (like me), regardless of how dead it is. I also don't see how "not seeing it in competitive play, therefore no one knows it exists" is a good reason. If no one knows it exists, then yeah, you won't see it in competitive play until people talk about it and if no one uses it in competitive play, then people largely won't know it exists. That's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This is one of the places where people can learn of it's existence and then use it, right?!

 

[VentusNeos]

It's also worth noting for the PK fire lag cancel that you can also N-air for an offensive option if an opponent gets to close, or you can double jump before you hit the ground, putting you in an albeit, odd position as Ness can be easily juggled. But for an unaware opponent, it could be a good mix-up.

 

[knu_OOKA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szdLp3rB-JQ

I found this video about the PK Jump (in Japanese unfortunately), and from what I'm seeing, this tech can bring a lot more movement options to Ness that I'm really interested in. I know how to do it, but I do it inconsistently, and I feel like that's partially because there's more to it that's likely explained in this video if you watch it. It's a long shot, but can anyone read Japanese or know someone who can? I really want to crack down on this tech.

 

[knu_OOKA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szdLp3rB-JQ

I found this video about the PK Jump (in Japanese unfortunately), and from what I'm seeing, this tech can bring a lot more movement options to Ness that I'm really interested in. I know how to do it, but I do it inconsistently, and I feel like that's partially because there's more to it that's likely explained in this video if you watch it. It's a long shot, but can anyone read Japanese or know someone who can? I really want to crack down on this tech.

 

[Earthbound360]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szdLp3rB-JQ

I found this video about the PK Jump (in Japanese unfortunately), and from what I'm seeing, this tech can bring a lot more movement options to Ness that I'm really interested in. I know how to do it, but I do it inconsistently, and I feel like that's partially because there's more to it that's likely explained in this video if you watch it. It's a long shot, but can anyone read Japanese or know someone who can? I really want to crack down on this tech.

I actually know everything that's being explained in that video already, and I can explain it myself. I don't speak a lick of Japanese though, so he might have gone into utility that I won't be able to convey.

It's all just a guide on PK (Fire) Jumps with different uses of B-reversing and Wavebouncing to change the trajectories. This was all technically in Brawl actually. I dubbed the Wavebounce version the "Firebound" back then. It also seems to go into detail on PKF Lag Cancelling and DJC PKFs. Oh, and the beginning is all about the uses of PKF and the weaknesses of course.

But honestly, I never found some of the air PKF techniques to be all that useful. They can be tricky at times, but you don't absolutely need them. PK Jump forwards is the most potent one IMO.

I can give you a breakdown on just about every technique listed in the vid, as well as my general understanding of the other parts, but now isn't the best time for me, considering I have finals tomorrow. I'll get back to you on that though. In the meantime, try experimenting with B-Reversed and Wavebounce PK Jumps in training mode if you're curious. You might just figure it all out for yourself.

 

[knu_OOKA]

I actually know everything that's being explained in that video already, and I can explain it myself. I don't speak a lick of Japanese though, so he might have gone into utility that I won't be able to convey.

It's all just a guide on PK (Fire) Jumps with different uses of B-reversing and Wavebouncing to change the trajectories. This was all technically in Brawl actually. I dubbed the Wavebounce version the "Firebound" back then. It also seems to go into detail on PKF Lag Cancelling and DJC PKFs. Oh, and the beginning is all about the uses of PKF and the weaknesses of course.

But honestly, I never found some of the air PKF techniques to be all that useful. They can be tricky at times, but you don't absolutely need them. PK Jump forwards is the most potent one IMO.

I can give you a breakdown on just about every technique listed in the vid, as well as my general understanding of the other parts, but now isn't the best time for me, considering I have finals tomorrow. I'll get back to you on that though. In the meantime, try experimenting with B-Reversed and Wavebounce PK Jumps in training mode if you're curious. You might just figure it all out for yourself.

'Preciate it, Mik, and good luck on those finals.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

So I think I discovered a new Ness tech by freak accident. I'd like to claim this as my discovery, which I'm really excited about, but I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned here or not. While the video was made today, I discovered this around May 18th.

I call it "PK Hi-Jump" (which btw has no relation to PK Jump / Fire Jump). This is performed by doing an air dodge almost immediately after inputting your second jump. I made a video illustrating it in Dream Land Omega (with Fixed Camera) as the clouds be used to measure the difference in jump height. Please confirm if this is new or old. If it's already been claimed by someone here, I'll remove it.

Thanks

Update 7/11/15: So after talking with @King_Spycrab in PM this week, he brought my attention to this post of his https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/35k8be/technique_i_discovered_in_sm4sh_but_im_not_sure/ which beats my original video (from before this one) by 4 days according to the timestamp. Give his post upvotes since credit is due his way. It's amazing we had the same idea around the same time.

 

[Lochy]

So I think I discovered a new Ness tech by freak accident. I'd like to claim this as my discovery, which I'm really excited about, but I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned here or not. While the video was made today, I discovered this around May 18th.

I call it "PK Hi-Jump" (which btw has no relation to PK Jump / Fire Jump). This is performed by doing an air dodge almost immediately after inputting your second jump. I made a video illustrating it in Dream Land Omega (with Fixed Camera) as the clouds be used to measure the difference in jump height. Please confirm if this is new or old. If it's already been claimed by someone here, I'll remove it.

Thanks

EDIT: Also, should I post this as it's own thread too if this is new?

Hey man its me Lochy. I think we discovered something like this a little while ago. I need to dig around a bit to find out if it was exactly this.
Also do not post it as a new thread unless its confirmed as new.
Also welcome to smashboards! Hope you have fun around the Ness boards. People here are super nice.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

Hey Lochy, we met at the tournament last week. :-) I checked all the past posts in the Ness section, and so far see no reference to it. Hoping it'll be confirmed as new soon. I'm really proud of this discovery. Would be nice to go down in Smash history as making a big contribution like this *dreams of getting recognition for it in the SmashWiki with a page about himself*. Haven't found anything like it on YouTube either.

 

[Lochy]

Hey Lochy, we met at the tournament last week. :-) I checked all the past posts in the Ness section, and so far see no reference to it. Hoping it'll be confirmed as new soon. I'm really proud of this discovery. Would be nice to go down in Smash history as making a big contribution like this *dreams of getting recognition for it in the SmashWiki with a page about himself*. Haven't found anything like it on YouTube either.

Yeah that would be pretty cool

 

[Noa.]

I think outlining that you can do a grounded pkt2 in the opposite direction should be placed somewhere in the Ness boards. It's useful enough I think. This thread seems to be the most suited to me. But if there's somewhere else more applicable, we could put it there.

 

[Earthbound360]

So I think I discovered a new Ness tech by freak accident. I'd like to claim this as my discovery, which I'm really excited about, but I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned here or not. While the video was made today, I discovered this around May 18th.

I call it "PK Hi-Jump" (which btw has no relation to PK Jump / Fire Jump). This is performed by doing an air dodge almost immediately after inputting your second jump. I made a video illustrating it in Dream Land Omega (with Fixed Camera) as the clouds be used to measure the difference in jump height. Please confirm if this is new or old. If it's already been claimed by someone here, I'll remove it.

Thanks

EDIT: Also, should I post this as it's own thread too if this is new?

I consider myself a connoisseur of Ness tech, and I must say that I haven't known about this one. AD actually extends the DJ... interesting. Good find!

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

I consider myself a connoisseur of Ness tech, and I must say that I haven't known about this one. DJ actually extends the DJ... interesting. Good find!

I think you meant to say air dodge extends the DJ, right, or did I misread that?

Anyways, that's such a compliment, thank you! ^_^ Do we need a mod or anyone of that nature to confirm this as new before I go ahead and claim it as my discovery? I'd like to post this as a new thread, and perhaps put up some more videos showing it off in hopefully better detail. On a sidenote, you have no idea how difficult it was to record this as I had to balance a camera on my lap, elevated by two pillows, while holding the N3DS at an incredibly awkward angle just so everything would be in view - which caused me to have to do retake, after retake. I should've made an outtakes video.

Update 7/11/15: So after talking with @King_Spycrab in PM this week, he brought my attention to this post of his https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/35k8be/technique_i_discovered_in_sm4sh_but_im_not_sure/ which beats my original video by 4 days according to the timestamp. Give his post upvotes since credit is due his way. It's amazing we had the same idea around the same time.

 

[Earthbound360]

I think you meant to say air dodge extends the DJ, right, or did I misread that?

Anyways, that's such a compliment, thank you! ^_^ Do we need a mod or anyone of that nature to confirm this as new before I go ahead and claim it as my discovery? I'd like to post this as a new thread, and perhaps put up some more videos showing it off in hopefully better detail. On a sidenote, you have no idea how difficult it was to record this as I had to balance a camera on my lap, elevated by two pillows, while holding the N3DS at an incredibly awkward angle just so everything would be in view - which caused me to have to do retake, after retake. I should've made an outtakes video.

Yeah whoops, my mistake.

I don't know if a whole new thread is needed, but you can claim it as your own discovery. I don't think anyone else has.
Also, I'd like to mention that Ness' DJ is really weird when used with other moves. We've just been noticing this lately.

If you DJ with PKF Fire, you get a PK Jump
If you DJ with an air dodge, your jump gets taller
If you DJ with an aerial, your jump gets a small stall at the apex, which could possibly be extending its horizontal distance.

Weird huh?

 

[Lochy]

Yeah whoops, my mistake.

I don't know if a whole new thread is needed, but you can claim it as your own discovery. I don't think anyone else has.
Also, I'd like to mention that Ness' DJ is really weird when used with other moves. We've just been noticing this lately.

If you DJ with PKF Fire, you get a PK Jump
If you DJ with an air dodge, your jump gets taller
If you DJ with an aerial, your jump gets a small stall at the apex, which could possibly be extending its horizontal difference.

Weird huh?

This will probably be the truth for Lucas' DJ as well.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

This will probably be the truth for Lucas' DJ as well.

I haven't gotten around to the 3DS yet, but I regret to report that on the Wii U, my PK Hi-Jump (DJ + Air Dodge) actually reduces Lucas' second jump by a nominal amount. However, DJ + aerial still creates a brief stall for Lucas.

So until I, or someone else, does further testing, it seems to be a Ness only tech.

 

[Lochy]

I haven't gotten around to the 3DS yet, but I regret to report that on the Wii U, my PK Hi-Jump (DJ + Air Dodge) actually reduces Lucas' second jump by a nominal amount. However, DJ + aerial still creates a brief stall for Lucas.

So until I, or someone else, does further testing, it seems to be a Ness only tech.

I think I can confirm that it actually hurts his jump. It must be the exact way that Ness dips in his dj that makes it possible.

 

[TheEnderFriend]

Wow, It's been a while.

Ness' double jump does seem very janky in this game, defiantly going to add that to the OP

 

[TheEnderFriend]

I think outlining that you can do a grounded pkt2 in the opposite direction should be placed somewhere in the Ness boards. It's useful enough I think. This thread seems to be the most suited to me. But if there's somewhere else more applicable, we could put it there.

Can you explain more? I'd like to look into this.

 

[TreeFire80]

He's talking about this:

https://youtu.be/D9NdngBGPR8?t=63

Note how the PK Thunder is coming from the right side, leading Sheik to think that he'll get launched to the left away from her, but he hits the very crown (or just left of the crown) to send him to the right for the kill. I believe it's a variation on the Reverse PKT2 mentioned in the OP but since it's grounded, you go straight along the ground and requires a different PKT path.

 

[Noa.]

That's exactly what I mean. It's not really an AT per say, but requires some practice to get right. And it's very useful.

 

[TheEnderFriend]

Also, It should be noted when a PK Hi-Jump (DJ + Air Dodge) is used, Ness is propelled slightly in the direction he is facing. This is not useful in the slightest, but hey, it happens.

 

[Krysco]

Just skimmed through this quickly and I don't see this mentioned at all but Ness can djc with item tosses, not just his specials. First discovered this with Mewtwo and tested it with Ness, Lucas, Yoshi and Peach but only Mewtwo and Ness can do it. Ness can't spawn his own items but it could be useful in 1v1 vs and it could have use in doubles. Might not have use since jcit is a thing. Sorry if this is common knowledge. Didn't see it mentioned here and I don't frequent the Ness boards. I can upload a video if anyone wants visual proof.