Ness' mechanic quirks and gimmicks discussion

[Gatoray]

I've tried plinking before, but I've noticed I run the risk of not double jumping since Ness' jump comes out after 4 frames of startup and there is no input buffer. I am perfectly fine jamming the hell out of Y with my index finger since I have the timing down pretty well. It's just a slight problem when I want to do several DJC things very quickly, but nothing I can't work on with practice.

As for switching characters, Ness mode and Peach mode for me is a matter of shifting my mindset to float cancels instead of double jump cancels, nothing else really gets in the way. Peach is most likely the character I'll switch to when I'm having matchup trouble anyway.

 

[ιota [UPSB]]

So I'm working on learning to Hax dash with Ness (since he doesn't have the best options of ledge, and it's fun to do), but it's really hard to execute....iirc Mofo said that it can actually be done with Ness so that he retains invincibility the whole way, just very hard, but I find it very very hard to get the timing right to even be able to waveland backwards after a double jump from ledge. I have no trouble doing things like wavelanding offstage to the ledge, but then immediately DJ wavelanding the very edge once more before grabbing it, and stuff like that, but so far I've only gotten even a non-invincible hax dash a handful of times....Simna or others, can you do this, and if so, any tips for learning/practicing/executing it? ^^

 

[Gatoray]

I went and practiced for a few minutes after eating your post. Yeah, wow, it's really hard to make it a continuous loop. I'm able to do a perfect waveland from the ledge with about 60% consistency, but as for wavelanding back to the ledge, forget about it.

However, here's a tip that will help with practice. On Hyrule Temple there's a ledge you can grab near the spawn points that has safe ground for you to land on when you miss. Unfortunately this is only good for practicing on right-side ledges, but it shouldn't be too hard to transfer the muscle memory to the left side I hope.

Also, I guess try to find the perfect angle to WD back off the ledge first then try to implement it in the real thing.

EDIT: Ok, am I mistaken or are there only 8 directions you can air dodge? If that's the case, this may be a much more precise technique than I feel would be worth learning. I was able to get a few off, but maybe like 1/200 of the time. Ness' ledge game can be pretty dangerous though.

 

[ιota [UPSB]]

Yeah, wavelanding onstage is super easy for me now, I almost never whiff it, and a friend told me about practicing on Temple, it's pretty much the only way to do it without going insane from waiting to respawn every 2 seconds xD

I think it's 8 directions or something like that yes, but I don't see why that makes it unable to be learned. In fact it makes it easier imo, since as long as you get the timing down and precision to always get the angle you need, you won't fail it, whereas if it were completely free angle for air dodge, it would vary a good bit every time you did it. Personally I feel that the only decent options for coming off of ledge are to perfect WD on (preserve as much invincibility as possible and then maybe it's possible to do stuff out of this like grab, dtilt, roll, something to try and stay safe), hax dash and punish anything they throw out, or toss out a fair asap (bair if they're recovering and land onstage to punish, or something like that ofc). Since double jumping is really unsafe with Ness, and many characters can outspace or trade with ledgehopped fair, I think the WD/Hax dash mixups are really the best options if one can get it down consistently (assuming you actually can preserve invincibility or come close to this for the hax dash)

 

[Gatoray]

Hey, I know we are discussing Dsmash in another thread, but how does an invincible waveland -> charging Dsmash sound? I think we're failing to realize that Ness is the only character with an active hitbox during the charge animation... shield pokes anyone?

 

[ιota [UPSB]]

Pretty sure the startup lag on that move is way too much to keep invincibility after a waveland, if you're looking to do something like that I think dtilt maaaybe is possible though, and a better choice most likely?

 

[Gatoray]

Ness doesn't have much options for invincibility anyways since it already takes long enough to get up from the ledge due to his wonky double jump. I meant to say that the invincibility would be only used to sneak past their ledgeguard attempt and since you're already facing away from them, Charging Dsmash seems like a decent mixup apart from the obvious Ftilt or Fsmash given the information I previously explained about the active hitboxes.

 

[ιota [UPSB]]

I know what you meant, but it doesn't last very long at all such that even characters like Falcon only have a couple of options to act out of the WL invincibility left over before it runs out. Dsmash would definitely be too much startup lag to do it while invincible, and I don't think it'd be safe if you're vulnerable as you're WLing back on stage and then starting up dsmash vulnerable. Fsmash deeeefinitely has too much startup to remain invincible, I would think :/ (ftilt maybe, but dtilt, utilt, or grab would be fastest I guess)