Ness' Best

[Earthbound360]

Well, I was wondering which of Ness' attacks would you guys consider to be the best. Not his best, but THE best in the game.

First off, his bthrow. Is it still the strongest bthrow in the game in terms of knockback?

What about PKT? Its Ness' wildcard and has SO many mindgames associated with it. PKT2 also kills sweetspotted at VERY low percents and even has invincibility frames in the sweetspot.

Dair dare I say it (lol punny) could possibly be the best spike in the game as I have heard. Is it really? I mean, what makes it better than Olimars? That's a pretty **** good spike with insane speed. Is it meteor cancellable? Ive heard Ness' isnt, and its HUGE hitbox makes it wonderful. What are your opinions?

Now think about this one. The usmash.
Before you think Im crazy, think about comparing it to Lucas'. With his power and range, it HAS to be a candidate for best usmash right? I mean, a fully charged one kills at 30% O_o
But for those of you who play both Lucas and Ness, which usmash do you find using more? Most likeley Ness'. Its fast, has good knockback (not really enough to kill though. A dair on a grounded opponent will KO off the top before a usmash), mindgames, shielding ability, range, and priority. It stops projectiles, eats through shield, raises people into the air, hit high above Ness (it can hit people from under the battlefield platforms), stop dairsfrom above, hurt people on the edge, and trick people into walking into the charge.

So, what do you guys think? If you have any ideas for something else you think would be a best move, go ahead and tell me why.

 

[Fhed]

I would say his b-throw is the best if not one of the top back throw in the game. PKT2 is really good too one of the best killing moves.

 

[__Crazy__]

I think you covered all of them Earthbound.

His u-air is pretty good too. It comes out extremely fast, has good star KO abilities and it doesn't even look like an attack! It just looks like Ness does a little flip. XD

 

[abit_rusty]

I'd say his bthrow is the one...I think only comparable to Olimar's blue pikmin bthrow, probably better.

I hardly use pkt2 or dair..maybe I should more often the way you put it lol. I do love using pkt to harass them. And usmash is too good.

 

[Earthbound360]

I think you covered all of them Earthbound.

His u-air is pretty good too. It comes out extremely fast, has good star KO abilities and it doesn't even look like an attack! It just looks like Ness does a little flip. XD

I never considered this but...

O_o
I've never realized how AWESOME his uair is now! I knew it was powerful, but I never realized it was that strong compared to other uairs! I just started testing this now, and MAn, does it put other uairs to shame! It kills a Bowser on the ground on FD at 133%. Its REALLY fast, has little lag, and like you said, could fool people due to its false attack animation. The only thing it lacks is range, but it seems to have good priority.

The only uair I think could give Ness' competition is Snakes which kill at about 125% and has more range. Unfortunately, it has WAY more lag than Ness' and a little more startup. I like Ness' better personally since it can combo better.

Ike's is strong and kills at 115%, but has HUGE lag, startup time, bad range and bad priority.

 

[__Crazy__]

Yeah whenever I hit someone with an uair over 100% I always go for a PKT2 follow up but then I realize that they are flying away into the background XD.

Too bad it can't be DJCed anymore.

 

[Earthbound360]

Gawd wouldnt that be overpowered lol

Anyways, the most powerful usmashes are Zelda, Snake, Wario, Ike, Snake, Ivysaur, and DK.

Zelda and Ike are slow.
Wario, Snake, and DK have lag.
Ivysaur plunges him downward (good or bad w/e but I dislike it)

So yeah, IMO, Ness' is the best.

 

[Gedennnnn]

PK Fire. If he didn't have that no one would play him. Bair and Fair are great too. But PK Fire takes the P-cake hahah puns

 

[Kiki52]

I like Ness' PK fire the best. When online, most people online get stuck in the fire and don't DI out of it then I do a bat to the face. It does a good 35-40% damage around really quickly at the start of the match.

I've been finding myself doing PK Thunder 2 more lately, and I do agree it's a great killing move to kill at 50%. I've had matches were I've had a +4 score due to PK Thunder 2. It's that great.

 

[Smashbros_7]

I like the yo-yo . uncharged it does ALOT of damage. Lucas Upsmash on the other hand, is close to impossible land with!

 

[Fizzle]

I can't seem to get dair to hit onstage. The people I play with can see a SH dair coming a mile away. The only time I can get it to work is as a cross up out of shield. It sets up for combos nicely when it hits, but I still think it's a little risky. Still a fantastic spike, though, and I prefer it over Olimar's and Ganon's for its large hitbox and relatively quick startup.

BThrow is a given. I'm almost certain it's the most powerful again. My opponents fear this move now. Once they hit 120-130% it's just a simple grab for the kill, which is a lot easier for Ness this time around.

Nair is a favorite of mine. It's one of those moves you can just throw out with little worry of being punished. The range isn't the best, but it's wicked fast and it's got decent knockback. Dsmash is good too. I love punishing roll-happy characters (aka Lucario) with a yo-yo to the face.

But, as I'm sure Simna would agree with this, I believe PKT (including PKT2) is Ness's greatest move. If you've got some great mindgames, the potential for this move is unlimited. Adding to that, PKT in Brawl is faster, easier to tailwhip, and has less ending lag on PKT2. I'd say PKT is in the running for best move in the game, as well. I mean, PKT2 is downright devastating. A low percent PKT2 kill can quickly turn the match in your favor.

 

[Earthbound360]

Remember guys; We're discussing THE BEST moves in the game, not Ness' best

I can't seem to get dair to hit onstage. The people I play with can see a SH dair coming a mile away. The only time I can get it to work is as a cross up out of shield. It sets up for combos nicely when it hits, but I still think it's a little risky. Still a fantastic spike, though, and I prefer it over Olimar's and Ganon's for its large hitbox and relatively quick startup.

Okay, after testing, it does seem like Ness' dair has a bigger hitbox than Ganondorf's. I tested this with Level 1 target test. Ness could hit the target under the arch using his spike from above the floor while Ganon cannot.

Now for Olimar. Ness may or may not have a better one Idk. Olimar's is just scary! It comes out lightning quick and has the same range (at least its close cuz he can also hit the target through the floor). There is one thing that bothers me though. PRIORITY! Ack, Olimar's dair cant go through a Firefox! WTF!? Also, its a bit inconsistent if you use a white pikmin. That's weak. Similar knockback.

Now something else came to mind. ROB's. Dang that thing has range. HUGE range, I mean holy crap. Also, it stalls you in the air which is pretty useful since you can easily time it. Also similar knockback.

What makes Ness spike better than the above? Are those meteor cancellable and Ness' isnt?

BThrow is a given. I'm almost certain it's the most powerful again. My opponents fear this move now. Once they hit 120-130% it's just a simple grab for the kill, which is a lot easier for Ness this time around.

Good to hear

Nair is a favorite of mine. It's one of those moves you can just throw out with little worry of being punished. The range isn't the best, but it's wicked fast and it's got decent knockback. Dsmash is good too. I love punishing roll-happy characters (aka Lucario) with a yo-yo to the face.

Yeah, they're good, but are they really best of the best material? Is the nair better than EVEYONE else nair, and dsmash?

But, as I'm sure Simna would agree with this, I believe PKT (including PKT2) is Ness's greatest move. If you've got some great mindgames, the potential for this move is unlimited. Adding to that, PKT in Brawl is faster, easier to tailwhip, and has less ending lag on PKT2. I'd say PKT is in the running for best move in the game, as well. I mean, PKT2 is downright devastating. A low percent PKT2 kill can quickly turn the match in your favor.

Cool. PKT ROX
But remember, read the post title.

 

[Fizzle]

What makes Ness spike better than the above? Are those meteor cancellable and Ness' isnt?

I went into training mode today and tested the knockback on all the spikes. As far as I can tell, Ness's dair is, far and beyond, the most powerful in the game. I threw a Mario offstage, quickly paused to reset the damage, and daired him at 0%. Dead. Testing everyone else's spikes, the knockback doesn't even come close. Even Ganon's will only send them halfway down before they can recover. Without a doubt, Ness's is the most powerful, but the best? I don't know. I can hit with Falco and Olimar's spikes pretty easy, but they're not nearly as effective at KOing at low percents.

From what I've heard, meteor canceling is out, period. However, the stun on spikes in general has been greatly lowered, so that's why you might be seeing people recover from them so easily. Except for Ness's, of course. Give my test a try. Try ROB's spike at zero and then compare it to Ness's. I can guarantee a dropped jaw.

Usmash best in game? Nah, I don't think so, but it sure is different. It has a lot of utilities, but what are most, if not all, smashes meant to be used for? KOing. Sure, it's nice to have a defensive usmash with different uses, but it doesn't cut it for knockback. Fox and Marth have quicker, more powerful usmashes.

But remember, read the post title.

Ah, my apologies. Reconsidering that, aside from Bthrow and PKT I don't think Ness has many of the best moves in the game. He does, however, have a very well-rounded set of moves. Ground game seems to lack a little, but his aerials are definitely high tier. I mean, not a single one of his aerials isn't useful, and that's something that can't be said about a lot of characters in Brawl.

 

[Thinkaman]

People are misusing the term power. Ness is a powerful character, but is in no regard the "most powerful" with a given move.

-Ganondorf and Ike have MUCH stronger dairs.
-Zelda and Ivysaur have MUCH stronger uairs.
-A few characters have stronger bairs.
-Plenty of characters have a stronger f-smash.
-Almost everyone has a strong u-smash.
-Ness's jabs and tilts have extremely low knockback.

The only thing Ness is the "best" in is throws, where he has (I think) the strongest linear scaling horizontal throw (b-throw) and the strongest constant horizontal throw (f-throw).

What Ness excels at is using all these somewhat powerful moves with an unusual amount of agility thanks to his unique double jump and decent speed. He is one of the most powerful middleweights.

 

[Kiki52]

How about Lucas? Are his throws better than Ness? I heard the dthrow of Lucas can star KO you at 100% which is better than 130% for Ness' bthrow.

You know I sorta wish they took out Ness' PK Thunder. While that may take away PK Thunder 2 which can kill at 50% and gave it to some other Earthbound rep, it'd be better if they gave Ness PK Teleport. It works just like Zelda's except it should be farther teleportation range and mild fire damage if you get telefragged by it (by no means instant kill by telefrag that'd be cheap) but give Ness stronger throws, a better bat, and a stronger/faster spike and stronger air game and I think Ness will be better.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

No I agree with you. I find myself using up smash a lot. It's just such a good move. Really really useful.

 

[Conda]

Ness does, in fact, have the strongest spike at low percents. Yes, I've tested it. It's nearly twice as strong as Ganon's when the enemy is at low percents (tested at around 10% damage).

 

[Earthbound360]

Gawd are u serious? About Ness' spike?
Geez, I guess it IS a candidate then for best spike.

And NESSBOUNDER, good to hear someone agrees with me. Who cares if it doesnt KO. It's a setup move like Marth's fair in Melee; it didnt really KO, but setup for more hits. Its spammable and defensive, has range and priority, and is very tricky. People walk into it all the time.

 

[Conda]

Ness's spike sends people 9 units down. By units, I mean blocks in stage creator.
And this is at 7%.

It's the best spike in the game. Ganny's sends people down 5 units at around 10%, Dk's fair and Ike's air send people down 4 units at around 10%, and everyone else's spikes send people down 1-3 blocks at these low %s.

 

[Earthbound360]

Wow... you sure put a lot of research and effort into this O_o

 

[Conda]

Naw, not really. I just made a stage and tested out most spikes on a mario and saw how far they went until hitstun wore off.

 

[Gindler]

Yeah, I like Ness's Uair. I think it's only less than that of yoshi's killer Uair.

And I just LOVE the yoyo's. the only smashes that can hurt while you're charging them, I love it when they get stuck on the Dsmash Yoyo until you finally release it sending them flying, and yeah I believe ness's spike is the best in the game, I've killed at 5% with it a few times causing extreme anger in opponents.

And yes the Bthrow, once I get them to 120 ish if i haven't landed a good attack/spike I'll just grab jab once to tell them they're as good as gone then launch them to their doom.

Oh, and i love holding the Dsmash right as an opponent is approaching the edge (me edgeguarding, kind) then launch it forward right as they're getting to the edge, that's always fun.

 

[Earthbound360]

Sorry to burst your bubble Gindler, but Ness' uair does a slight bit more knockback than Yoshi's (Ness' kills Boozer at 135 and Yoshi's at 137)

But other than that small difference, Yoshi's uair is pretty much the same in ability as Ness' with its quick startup, little lag, and chainability (thank goodness for unique double jumps!).

 

[Conda]

Too bad Lucas's uair is useless compared to Ness's. Hardly even kills at 130. Eugh..

 

[Gindler]

Sorry to burst your bubble Gindler, but Ness' uair does a slight bit more knockback than Yoshi's (Ness' kills Boozer at 135 and Yoshi's at 137)

But other than that small difference, Yoshi's uair is pretty much the same in ability as Ness' with its quick startup, little lag, and chainability (thank goodness for unique double jumps!).

Curses, ha it's all good I love using ness almost as much as using yoshi. But yes they're Uair are identical, except one looks alot cooler than the other, you know which one . Oh yes unique double jumps FTW! Their so similar that sometimes I forget ness doesn't get juggernaut frames cause I play both of them so similarly, except for ness's killer spike! Best attack in the game!

 

[RednaXale]

I mainly play aerial with Ness. His ground moves seem nerfed to me.

 

[Earthbound360]

Dtilt was buffed since it now trips.
Both yo-yo's were buffed.
Grab was buffed.

Ftilt and utilt seem the same

Dash attack and bat were nerfed

Its not that bad.

And Gindler, thanks for letting me know how powerful Yoshi's uair was O_o
I never knew it had such speed and killing potential. And yeah, be careful with Ness' lack of super armor lol

How is Yoshi your future Brawl main!?

 

[Gindler]

Oh yes, the Dtilt pwns. Oh no I tripped and a bat is coming at my face.
Ha yeah the reason i didn't use ness in melee was the horrible yo-yo's but now i love them.
ha, grabs . "oh you got me to 120 ness too bad you can't land your slow Fsmash, Oh no let go of me AHHHHH!" I think all that when i grab someone for a Bthrow (yes i think that fast)
And i love how some people forget ness has a reflector, people seem to see me charging it so they shoot something at me (favs are samus and lucario with their charged blasts) little did they know I was baiting them and they're lack of ness exposure.

Ha, yeah i've gotten a few cheap kills at tournies with it cause of people not knowing it's killing power 0_o

and the future main thing, I made that a month before release and have yet to update it.

 

[maskeXD]

Actually, the best move in terms of knockback is... PK Flash!!!!!!!! It kills at 25% =O

But I think the most useful are PK Fire and USmash. Here's a combo that proves it:

At the start of the game, do a PK Fire, dash to the enemy and do a Dashing Attack, quickly follow it to a USmash and, depending on the weight of your enemy, start juggling with UAir and PK thunder or Bair him or her. An easy and unavoidable 50% advantage. =D

 

[__Crazy__]

Actually, the best move in terms of knockback is... PK Flash!!!!!!!! It kills at 25% =O

But I think the most useful are PK Fire and USmash. Here's a combo that proves it:

At the start of the game, do a PK Fire, dash to the enemy and do a Dashing Attack, quickly follow it to a USmash and, depending on the weight of your enemy, start juggling with UAir and PK thunder or Bair him or her. An easy and unavoidable 50% advantage. =D

Or you can just PK Fire, PK Fire, Grab, a couple of headbutts, d-throw, PK Thunder (PKT2 if you can land it) 50+% or a kill.