Guide Ness Adv. Technique Showcase and Guide (complete with Crotchcam!)

[Cazcom]

Glad to hear the guide was useful, Indigeau. The magnet dashing inputs look like the following, presuming you use X for jump, L for air dodge, and are looking to mag dash to the right:

Magnet Dashing Inputs
→, X, ↓B, →X, L

DJC wavedashing is basically quick fingers. It's a lot easier with tap jump on in my personal opinion because you can use the control stick for one of the jumps.

I hope that helps.

 

[ilysm]

So you jump a second time in the direction you want to wavedash to boost the range? Ok! Thanks! Hoping to level up a little over the rest of summer; this is where I'll start.

 

[Bryonato]

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd WE'RE UPDATED! Please have a look at all the new content, guys Thanks for reading!

 

[The_NZA]

This guide is such a good compendium of all the Ness tactics we've all come together to invent in the Skype group (and out of it).

2 comments on the more "niche tactics".

1. I think magnet platform cancelled grab is going to be really important to Ness's future platform pressure. I mean, its a way to instantly come to a platform, throw a hitbox up that causes enough shield stun to be cancelled into a grab.

2. Grounded magnet is super situational, grounded magnet into yoyo is still, IMO not a greaaaat option, but I thought of an amazing gimp idea. If you grounded magnet into JC usmash someone near the edge, theoeretically, you could Magnet to knock them off, and immediately bop them with the charged usmash so that they go meteoring down to their deaths. It would be a really stylish way to gimp someone.

 

[Soft Serve]

Really sick update. The "stairway to death" is so good like damn I love it.

I wouldn't call shield drop-magnet a "Magdrop" though because thats a bit misleading. For spacies we just call it shield-drop shine. If I could shield drop out of a shine I think I would just die lol.

Between magnet and DJC, ness has some of the best shield drop options in the game, its fantastic.

 

[Player -0]

About the update with the Magcancels wouldn't instant Dair be just as good as autocancel bair? I'm not actually sure how much landing lag Dair has w/ L-Cancel.

 

[Bryonato]

no. autocancel bair allows you to act immediately upon hitting the ground. with dair you would have to wait for the lag to finish before you could fsmash

 

[Bryonato]

Formal sticky request @Hylian @TheReflexWonder

 

[Psi Sig]

^yesplease^

 

[Bryonato]

Small edit on 8/10:
Added another video example to magnet dash
http://www.gfycat.com/PolishedGleefulCranefly

 

[Super_Primid]

So idk if this is a true combo but, theoretically, couldn't you up throw to djc up air a low % spacie/fast faller and then magnet to wd (multi mag or mag scoot if you have enough control) until mid percents. Then you could follow up accordingly.






Also a weird semi guaranteed combo would be ground magnet to up b. (Hit them with the move not you.)
I say semi cause u have to foloow there di and there fall speed so.

 

[Alakaslam]

Question.

I just tried watching the first video and my ping is awesome as well as my download speed.

Is there any particular reason the video is so laggy I cannot tell what does what?

If it was the recording process then oh well, but any help fixing it on my end if they work for everyone else would be appreciated; thanks!

 

[Super_Primid]

Question.

I just tried watching the first video and my ping is awesome as well as my download speed.

Is there any particular reason the video is so laggy I cannot tell what does what?

If it was the recording process then oh well, but any help fixing it on my end if they work for everyone else would be appreciated; thanks!

U can always try the YouTube play list

 

[GypsyMain]

Right now my friends hate my ness. This guide though... Things are about to get weird.

 

[Bryonato]

Question.

I just tried watching the first video and my ping is awesome as well as my download speed.

Is there any particular reason the video is so laggy I cannot tell what does what?

If it was the recording process then oh well, but any help fixing it on my end if they work for everyone else would be appreciated; thanks!

This was livestreamed, and unfortunately at the time of that particular section of the stream I started dropping a lot of frames. My apologies.

 

[Alakaslam]

This was livestreamed, and unfortunately at the time of that particular section of the stream I started dropping a lot of frames. My apologies.

Nonono, thank you for uploading- it is far better than not having it

 

[GMaster171]

(idk if this will get updated but)

After yesterday, Tetra noticed that the lagless PKF (coined EX PKF I guess) was significantly easier in 3.5. After a few of us tried it out, we were getting success rates anywhere from 50%-90%. I don't know exactly why this is, as the technique is still a 1f window, but it is evident that it is easier.

My thoughts are with the newish landing detection, the window to get a lagless PKF aligns itself with around the same window for a good SHFF, or at the peak of a normal SH, which makes it easier to set up.

Currently trying setups from DJC onto platforms, as I believe this technique will really shine when used around plats.

 

[Bryonato]

i messed around with this a bit last night as well. if you make any discoveries gm, feel free to post a little blurb and video or something and i'll definitely add it to OP

 

[TheAlchemist]

This is absolutely THE best guide I've ever read/watched. Thank you so much!

 

[Bryonato]

This is absolutely THE best guide I've ever read/watched. Thank you so much!

wow! thank you for such kind words. always nice to hear =]

 

[ToastMiller]

(idk if this will get updated but)

After yesterday, Tetra noticed that the lagless PKF (coined EX PKF I guess) was significantly easier in 3.5. After a few of us tried it out, we were getting success rates anywhere from 50%-90%. I don't know exactly why this is, as the technique is still a 1f window, but it is evident that it is easier.

My thoughts are with the newish landing detection, the window to get a lagless PKF aligns itself with around the same window for a good SHFF, or at the peak of a normal SH, which makes it easier to set up.

Currently trying setups from DJC onto platforms, as I believe this technique will really shine when used around plats.

I also have been trying to master the muscle memory of the lagless pkf and even me and my noob self can pull it off every once in a while. If I take the time to master it would there be enough time to jump and throw out another before your opponent can escape the first bolt?

 

[Boiko]

I also have been trying to master the muscle memory of the lagless pkf and even me and my noob self can pull it off every once in a while. If I take the time to master it would there be enough time to jump and throw out another before your opponent can escape the first bolt?

Nope. They can just SDI out and shield.

 

[Player -0]

I definitely feel like the lagless ground PKF is easier. I got some without trying a couple weeks ago. Had actually never practiced it before.

New landing detection op.

 

[Boiko]

I definitely feel like the lagless ground PKF is easier. I got some without trying a couple weeks ago. Had actually never practiced it before.

New landing detection op.

I personally think that even though it's a 1 frame window, there are only so few opportunities you have to act.. Does that make sense?

 

[Player -0]

Not really...

 

[NoxD]

I **** you not a few months ago I started to SH -> Magnet -> DJC Waveland, and called it a Magnet Dash. And I have never really been on the Ness boards at all or seen any good Ness's play besides maybe Awestin. I just now came to this thread seeing that great minds think alike lmao
Also the guide is great, never knew about some of this stuff, keep it up Bryonato

 

[Boiko]

Hey, kind of random, but has anyone ever done a b-reversed magnet into a DJC nair and had additional momentum from it? I found myself advancing decently far from it. Will try to get a video up soon.
@ The_NZA @ Bryonato @ GMaster171

 

[The_NZA]

like do you mean dash magnet to the right, breverse to the left, nair to the right? or do you mean dash magnet to the right, breverse it to the left, nair to the left?

 

[Boiko]

like do you mean dash magnet to the right, breverse to the left, nair to the right? or do you mean dash magnet to the right, breverse it to the left, nair to the left?

Both work.

 

[Player -0]

What do you mean by "extra momentum?"

 

[Boiko]

What do you mean by "extra momentum?"

Feels basically just like an advancing nair but with extra distance.

 

[Taytertot]

Great guide I was thinking of picking up Ness recently. I main roy and secondary ganon but felt that Id like to have third even though i might end up spreading myself a little thin in terms of skill at each. I find roy to be a very aggressive character and ganon to be a very defensive character so i was wondering where ness might be as a general but not all encompassing statement? (my thought being that having an aggressive, defensive and then maybe adding a technical character to my repertoire would be interesting or at least to have a third character that didnt exactly fit into the aggressive or defensive styles the way roy and ganon do)

 

[Player -0]

Depends on MU/playstyle.

Some things for certain:
- Combos hard once you're in (excluding super floaties).
- Can be fairly technical depending on player. DJC is a staple of Ness' kit, knowledge of B-Reverse/wavebounce is optimal but not required (mostly used for PKF spacing and Mag stuff).
- PKF is a fairly decent spacing tool (grounded sucks in my opinion) that can lead into an opening for you.
- Burst aerial movement close to the ground is amazing.

So I think the best way Ness is played is passive aggressively. He has a couple of decent shield pressure options (stemming mostly from DJC aerials -> DJC aerials or D-Tilt -> Grab. My preferred style is a movement heavy Ness that throws PKF if they're in a decent spot to get by it and I can safely fire it from a platform while landing.

I would label Ganon as a pretty passive aggressive character in a way, just a somewhat different style of doing it (throws out large, heavy hitboxes instead of PKF/movement options). Most characters are fairly passive aggressive unless you mean the character can throw hitboxes safely on an opponent's shield and then combo off of it/can get in as a mixup.

 

[Boiko]

Depends on MU/playstyle.

Some things for certain:
- Combos hard once you're in (excluding super floaties).
- Can be fairly technical depending on player. DJC is a staple of Ness' kit, knowledge of B-Reverse/wavebounce is optimal but not required (mostly used for PKF spacing and Mag stuff).
- PKF is a fairly decent spacing tool (grounded sucks in my opinion) that can lead into an opening for you.
- Burst aerial movement close to the ground is amazing.

So I think the best way Ness is played is passive aggressively. He has a couple of decent shield pressure options (stemming mostly from DJC aerials -> DJC aerials or D-Tilt -> Grab. My preferred style is a movement heavy Ness that throws PKF if they're in a decent spot to get by it and I can safely fire it from a platform while landing.

This is pretty much spot on.
The only thing I disagree with is grounded PKF being bad. Correctly spacing it, and pivot PKF is sooo useful because your opponent HAS to respect it and it conditions them to be less likely to approach by running at you and dash dancing.

 

[Player -0]

Unless the character is Ganon/Mario levels of slow, they're landing, or preoccupied in my experiences they gain quite a bit of stage control and either you're required to shield. This puts you in a bit of a disadvantageous position. If they're required to burn a DJ while coming down then it's kind of worth it (depends still), as long as they don't have any aerial burst movement.

I still use it, just very situationally.

 

[Boiko]

That's why it's all about mixing it in.

 

[Taytertot]

Ok cool thanks

 

[Taytertot]

I was curious if conditioning the opponent to be ready for you to hop offstage for gimps during edgeguarding would allow you to mix it up with a wavebounce PKF when they try to upB to the ledge?

 

[Gazer]

Sick vids, I know what I must do. (Runs to the lab)

 

[Cyris Talkhelm]

Following the nex update, will this godly guide be updated too?