Ness 2v2 strategies and partners?

[Ranias]

I've never played 2v2 in a tournament before. Do any of you have experience?

I tried some 2v2 friendlies the other day using Ness (online without voice chat). He seemed okay, not incredibly strong like I hoped.

A big problem was that many of Ness's attacks are risky to use around a partner because of friendly fire.

PK Fire was kind of strong in that it could hold the enemies down for follow-ups.

I'm guessing characters like Pikachu are pretty good with Ness because of energy projectiles and PSI magnet. What do you all think?

 

[PKBeam]

Maybe Robin. I feel like they're a good match.

 

[Uffe]

The things that helped me with my teammate when it was my brother was that we understood each others ways of playing, knew when to help one another when it was needed, didn't get angry at each other, didn't take stocks without asking, and healed when it was necessary. Also, having a player who is good at the game is another helpful factor. My brother used Samus and I used Ness, so he could heal me anytime he needed, and we didn't fear hitting each other by accident because we didn't play reckless, which is one of the things don't want in a teammate. The best time for you to heal is when you get your opponents off the stage. Most of the characters in this game, I think, can heal Ness.

You could put in some team combos depending on your teammate. So a down throw from Samus to an up air from Ness would be good to use against someone you can kill. Ness' up throw to Samus' Charge Shot is another thing you can do. You just need to be creative with these things. While you fight your opponent and your teammate fights his/hers, you should also make sure your teammate isn't in any danger, and vise versa. I remember in Brawl, my brother was knocked off the stage by a Meta Knight. He was recovering, and the MK was edge guarding. I pushed my opponent away, ran over to where the MK was and spiked him with down air, thus allowing my brother to come back without having to worry about any imminent danger.

So you just need to know how your teammate plays, set a rule on how your stock borrows work, and whether or not you two are a compatible team. When it comes to the stock, though, you may want to let them not take it if you're on your second stock at 100%. That may be bad for both of you. I may be reiterating this, but know what your teammate's character is capable of doing and practice with them by setting up combos and stuff.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Ness does really well with any of the hardier members of the cast that don't mind jumping into the fray, or taking care of people caught in PK Fire. PK Fire is amazing in team games, but most amazing is PKT2.
I wouldn't suggest a spammy character as a partner, but one with an energy based move can be great. I would imagine Megaman would be an awesome partner for Ness, since any opportunity to fsmash PSI Magnet can heal you substantially, in only a few seconds.

 

[Ako.]

I would say ZSS would make a good partner, I've seen doubles brawl videos of Ness and ZSS and she could heal Ness %50 with her D-smash in less than 3 secs. Her D-smash comes out quick and heals like %14. You should take every opportunity u can to heal, such as when both enemy opponents are dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ujaRpHU28
Brawl Doubles video.

 

[Earthbound360]

Mmm... I can imagine dsmash and PKF combos with ZSS being pretty nasty

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

You can heal on her dsmash, right? That'd be pretty quick to spam if you find an opening to.

 

[Ranias]

I kinda want Lucas back just for doubles with Ness, lol. Both of them healing eachother.

 

[Asa]

If you're more apt to handling 2v1 scenarios, villager makes for a good partner since he can camp the ledge well and hold sticks while backing up with lloid rocket and edge guarding opponents when they get offstage in his zone. There are also opportunities to heal (pocketed pkt), though limited .

I've personally liked mega man a lot. He has some strong hitters like utilt and dsmash that can be really clutch. He's one of the better healers with pellets and fsmash.

Robin I enjoy too. Fairly mobile character with strong followups (leven uair/bair) and healing moves.

Haven't tested zss but she was good in brawl so there's likely synergy here

Lucario is good if you like to be more defensive .. Rage lucario is nice and he's a good healer

 

[Ranias]

If you're more apt to handling 2v1 scenarios, villager makes for a good partner since he can camp the ledge well and hold sticks while backing up with lloid rocket and edge guarding opponents when they get offstage in his zone. There are also opportunities to heal (pocketed pkt), though limited .

O.O I forgot about Villager. The pocket and bat combos would be so hype.

 

[Asa]

Yeah he's got some great followups, and the bowling ball makes for some ridiculous kills and edge guards. A pocketed pkt heals about 24% btw.

 

[VentusNeos]

As stated before, Villager and ZSS would probably be your best partner options. Sheik could possibly work because of Burst grenade healing Ness (See PSI Magnet reference table in the Ness thread)

Using team damage to your advantage would work for all three of these guys too, such as if your too short on your recovery, these guys could hit you and still recover. (And Ness can just PK thunder a partner to help out in said scenarios as well)

I feel like Ness of 2v2 is more supportive, because PK fire would be used for followups. Get a ZSS or villager to also grab if you can't, because their grabs are long and they wouldn't be effected by PK fire's lasting hitbox. Also PK Flash would be good after your partner grab releases someone in a 2v1 situation.(They'd need to block right after of course)

I liked playing with a villager because we got some really impressive combos together. Pocketing a tree that's been reflected is great, just to release after awhile and bat it again. xD) Since he can pocket Pk fire, it makes good mind/mix-up games. In fact, Villager and Ness are complete Mind f**ks when played correctly. It can really disorient your opponent if you and your partner can play off eachother

 

[Earthbound360]

We also need to consider abilities outside of healing in this question. Yes healing is nice, but it doesn't make a good teammate alone. Very rarely would good doubles opponents just allow you to get healed for free. We've gotta consider moves that string well with Ness' too.

I think a good way to look at this is to think of characters that can complement PKF combos.
ZSS is a good one that comes to mind. You also need characters that can attack burning opponents and not get hurt by the pillar themselves, so sword characters might be nice (though they for the most part won't be healing Ness, unless they've got a green hat).

 

[Ranias]

You also need characters that can attack burning opponents and not get hurt by the pillar themselves, so sword characters might be nice (though they for the most part won't be healing Ness, unless they've got a green hat).

Yeah. Maybe a character that can compliment Ness's flaws would be good, like a long disjointed hitbox character to compliment his short reach.

 

[The 0ne]

Based on what I've read so far, here's what I can deduce as good team partners for Ness:

• Robin: sword disjoints for PK Fire combos, plus three projectiles for PSI magnet
• Lucario: Long disjoint and grab with Force Palm, and can heal with that and Aura Sphere
• Zero Suit Samus: Great disjoints, even disjointed grab, energy projectiles, plus stun -> pk fire-> stun -> pf fire combos, might be best choice
• Villager: can pocket his own stuff when combined with Ness's bat, pocketing PK Fire would be a madhouse, healing from Lloid Rocket and pocketed Ness projectiles
• Mega Man: can heal with a lot of moves, pellets and Crash Bomber would be easy peasy, throws have decent hitstun to combo with, long range projectiles good for starting combos
• Samus: Charge Shot and bombs for healing, great projectile combos

I also feel like Kirby and Mr. Game and Watch should be considered, because Kirby has great combos and can heal with PK Flash or up-b, and Ness can fill G&W's bucket.

 

[Asa]

Don't think pkf combos are something that should be too heavily considered as that move realistically shouldn't be landing too often. Followups for grabs, however.. Yes.

On that note nearly every character can land a followup after a pkf lol

Honestly I'd just like to know who everyone personally enjoys teaming with, ten we can brainstorm scenarios with that character?

Also pk flash and Kirby upb are pretty bad healers

 

[Earthbound360]

Don't think pkf combos are something that should be too heavily considered as that move realistically shouldn't be landing too often. Followups for grabs, however.. Yes.

On that note nearly every character can land a followup after a pkf lol

Honestly I'd just like to know who everyone personally enjoys teaming with, ten we can brainstorm scenarios with that character?

Also pk flash and Kirby upb are pretty bad healers

Are you suggesting that PKF is impractical to land? It works fine in singles, it'd probably land even more in doubles.

And it's not just a matter of who can follow up. Clearly anyone can, but who can follow up the best? Dsmashes from ZSS for example combined with PKF could potentially get nasty for the sad victim. And remember, with friendly fire on, and in the heat of the moment (heheh cwutididthar?) of a double battle, it's not always easy to manage spacing for those using their fists to follow up without getting themselves burned.

But to answer your question, I've liked teaming with Lucario since Brawl and even PM. ZSS is my theoretical buddy.

 

[Asa]

Honestly pkf shouldnt be landing that much in singles lol. But in doubles, since it tends to be more chaotic and you can get away with stuff, it's a little more practical.

Zss is likely our best teammate. Dsmashes do make for some good followups out of pkf. Uair can add up damage fast which complements ness's kill power. One of the better healers as well. I'm not too familiar with her frame data in this game.. is her dsmash as fast as it was in brawl? does it give frame advantage on block as well?

In brawl, i personally liked anubis over zss ( i'm not very good at 2v1). Sucks that aura isn' really there in smash4

 

[Ranias]

PKF is kind of hard to land actually. There are two characters that can punish and a teammate that you can't cast into.

After doing more 2v2 friendlies yesterday with Mega Man, we did pretty well, but I found myself dying a bit too often. I didn't really have many opportunities at all to PSI Magnet either.

The few times I did PSI Magnet, Mega Man's F-smash did a good job.

In brawl, i personally liked anubis over zss ( i'm not very good at 2v1). Sucks that aura isn' really there in smash4

Mmm. Force Palm healing.

 

[Ako.]

This got me thinking. Can villager pocket PK Flash?

 

[Ranias]

This got me thinking. Can villager pocket PK Flash?

No. He has invulnerability for one or a few frames during the startup of the pocket though.

 

[Asa]

Afaik he can't pocket pkf lash

 

[Ranias]

Those FOW (Ness) and MJG (Villager) doubles though.

 

[SirBacon]

I've never played 2v2 in a tournament before. Do any of you have experience?

I tried some 2v2 friendlies the other day using Ness (online without voice chat). He seemed okay, not incredibly strong like I hoped.

A big problem was that many of Ness's attacks are risky to use around a partner because of friendly fire.

PK Fire was kind of strong in that it could hold the enemies down for follow-ups.

I'm guessing characters like Pikachu are pretty good with Ness because of energy projectiles and PSI magnet. What do you all think?

Lucario and ness is a god doubles team the rage and aura allow lucario to heal ness with team attack for huge percentages. To keep team attack to a minimum have your lucario sit outside near the edge while your inside the fight. Use pika fire and pika thunder to keep the others away and make sure to use your fair and nair to space properly and reduce team attack. Be VERY VERY VERY careful with pika flash and pika rocket only use if you are isolated. Hope this helped this is mine and my best friends double team we use and it's so good!!

 

[Ranias]

Lucario and ness is a god doubles team the rage and aura allow lucario to heal ness with team attack for huge percentages. To keep team attack to a minimum have your lucario sit outside near the edge while your inside the fight. Use pika fire and pika thunder to keep the others away and make sure to use your fair and nair to space properly and reduce team attack. Be VERY VERY VERY careful with pika flash and pika rocket only use if you are isolated. Hope this helped this is mine and my best friends double team we use and it's so good!!

Sounds like a pretty good team. Please use "PK" instead of "pika" in the future though. It hurts the Mother fan in me.

 

[SirBacon]

Sounds like a pretty good team. Please use "PK" instead of "pika" in the future though. It hurts the Mother fan in me.

Lol sorry my fault

 

[VentusNeos]

This is a terrible team set, but I thought I'd point it out.

With proper opponent management, keeping them apart, or even 2v1 your favor, a very unpractical combo must be mentioned. Ganon flame choke, ness jab locks, then you can choose to PK Fire for extra damage, or just go for reverse warlock punch at neutral get up.

As I said, very unpractical, but would be super hype.

 

[The 0ne]

Lol it wouldn't even have to be Ness though! And that's not impractical; Flame Choke isn't hard to land and if Ness is already there a jab lock is guaranteed if they miss the tech.

 

[The 0ne]

I mean have you seen the Ganon Cannon???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWs5oX5apUQ

 

[VentusNeos]

Ganon Cannon is the best cannon. A good ganon with anyone is entertaining. Viridi can't even comprehend the Ganon Cannon.

 

[Sir_Zedd]

I think sheik is one of the best teammates for Ness, Vanish heals heaps and is more safe than the grenade.

Ness gets the kills, sheik gets the combos and covers the edge well.

It's also nice to work together with one of your worst match ups

 

[Earthbound360]

I think sheik is one of the best teammates for Ness, Vanish heals heaps and is more safe than the grenade.

Ness gets the kills, sheik gets the combos and covers the edge well.

It's also nice to work together with one of your worst match ups

And you get to bthrow them when they least expect it.

 

[NorCal_DSS]

Members of the SoCal and NorCal PR (including myself) believe that Ness is a top 3 character in doubles. Ness-Diddy may also be the best team in the game at this point. Ness/Villager has also been shown to be a deadly combination with the display Fow&MJG put on at APEX.

 

[Ranias]

Members of the SoCal and NorCal PR (including myself) believe that Ness is a top 3 character in doubles. Ness-Diddy may also be the best team in the game at this point. Ness/Villager has also been shown to be a deadly combination with the display Fow&MJG put on at APEX.

What's the benefit of Ness/Diddy over Diddy/Diddy?

 

[Noa.]

Ness is very clearly a fantastic character in doubles. He's just so good. <3

 

[neomadgic]

ness is deff top tier in doubles. Most of his weakness can't be exploited. And his offensive game is just god tier. And don't even get me started with psi magnet

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness has the powerful moves without intrusive hitboxes to interrupt allies, as well as being very combo savvy, able to improvise upon allied hits on a whim.

There's only one single thing that bothers me about Ness in doubles. Since he's so throw based, and his throw animations are far from fast, sometimes the crowded fight gets in the way of that.

However, this weakness is diminished in Smash 4 becaues throw invulerability. <3 Ness in dubs.