Need some help with the finer points vs Marth

[ViciousEnd]

Marth is a difficult match up for me with Fox. It's not the general match up that catches me off most of the time, it is just small things that tend to get into my head.

First off is Marth's dash dance. Both characters abuse it extremely well, but marth has the option of choking down your space with down tilt and dash attack. Aerials are less of an issue because of he goes airborn you just space well and grab during l cancel lag. My issue is beating down tilt and dash attack. A lot of times I will run further than I have to, and when I turn back to spacing battle, I get caught by down tilts. With dash attacks it's if I gave up too much space and am near the edge, where the sword then covers my body.

Forward throw at low percents. If you di full away and buffer a roll or dodge you can escape the pseudo chain grab. Problem is the Marth I play with a lot has adapted to this and waits for it. What other escape options do I have here?

I'll add more as I get answers. I feel a lot of these are small issues, but can go a long way in the match up.

 

[JPOBS]

well first of all, the marth doesnt have to fthrow u at 0 cuz fox can be chaingrabbed directly from 0, but in the event he is F-throwing you for whatever reason then waiting for your dodge, instead of dodging, just sh nair him or hit him with pretty much anything lol.

if you dont like the risk involved in that, then buffer a jump (sheild + up) or simply jump up onto a platform and run away.

i dont have anything concrete to say about approaching dtilt because is pretty hard to see coming out of a DD so just be careful.
as for dash attack, DD -> sheild then punish the lag works pretty well. this doesnt work nearly as well vs dtilt cuz that thing is fast as hell.

 

[Duff0]

You could DD around dash attack, but most Marths dash attack when they call a DD away, so you'll just be running into it.

A good mix up with dashing away is just full hopping.

 

[RaynEX]

Marth is a difficult match up for me with Fox. It's not the general match up that catches me off most of the time, it is just small things that tend to get into my head.

First off is Marth's dash dance. Both characters abuse it extremely well, but marth has the option of choking down your space with down tilt and dash attack. Aerials are less of an issue because of he goes airborn you just space well and grab during l cancel lag. My issue is beating down tilt and dash attack. A lot of times I will run further than I have to, and when I turn back to spacing battle, I get caught by down tilts. With dash attacks it's if I gave up too much space and am near the edge, where the sword then covers my body.

Forward throw at low percents. If you di full away and buffer a roll or dodge you can escape the pseudo chain grab. Problem is the Marth I play with a lot has adapted to this and waits for it. What other escape options do I have here?

I'll add more as I get answers. I feel a lot of these are small issues, but can go a long way in the match up.

Dash attack and its powers of ultimate overshoot is a real problem for Fox. Getting hit by it means techchase, and certain death. However, it is very laggy and punishable on block. Considering how long it takes to come out, I think it would be wise to try to shield the dash attack on reaction. When you're in the mid-range danger zone, where either one of you can potentially land a grab based on the other's decisions and movements, be extra careful. If you can call it, its a free grab or WD oos punish depending on how Marth spaced the dash attack.

Dtilt isn't too great mid-stage, so if you are getting hit by it try to run on top of some high platforms or something. You shouldn't be dashing right in front of Marth for too long, and if he starts to gain ground with his long WD and dtilts you should probably get out of there and re-evaluate your plan. Your first objective should be to try to start the DD war mid-range and force out a laggy move. If this fails, running onto platforms and getting him to jump up at you could yield a few bairs or some other tricky stuff. Platforms are deceivingly useful in this match-up, albeit them having the ability to screw you over when they are low to the ground (i.e.: Yoshi's/Stadium/BF and Marth's utilt/fsmash)

Stay away from edges unless you are edge-guarding v Marth. If you get cornered, no amount of advice can save you. You already know how far his sword can reach. Marth is stupid and has the most impersonal edge-guarding strats. He is never point blank and in your face (at least, he never should be). If he gets you near an edge, he swats you at max range and forces you off into a gimp. To me, it sounds like its all just a bunch of bad habits you can change. The first being running too far away, and getting predicting with a dash attack. Control your DD lengths with wavedashes and shields to stop or quickly change direction before you get cornered. Cutting off your ground advancements with platform wavelands is good too. As long as you mix it up and keep it varied on the ground, it will always be a risk for Marth to throw moves out to try and hit you. Fox's moves as a whole are more safer than Marth's, and if Marth misses you...thats a good chunk of free damage you're getting from a grab or usmash.

BUT, if you manage to run right into a corner situation there are a couple of things you can try to help you escape.

-Wait for Marth to jump and run straight under him

-Shield and Wd close enough, then shine oos

-Roll

-Platform escape

For the fthrow there are a couple of things you can do. Try d.i.ing away and shining once he gets in close. This should beat virtually anything he does. If you jump right afterwards oos, you should still be safe from another grab, even if you miss the shine. D.i.ing away and jumping, rolling, SSing, shining, or even jabbing works.

Good luck Steffon.

 

[JesiahTEG]

At this point my Canadian friend, not even luck will save him.

 

[RaynEX]

Why use luck when you have shine and usmash.

 

[ViciousEnd]

Why use luck when you have shine and usmash.

I like nair and grab and blaster just as much though.

 

[RaynEX]

All I have to say is...


You better have read what I spent time to write up.

 

[Animal]

not relevant, but i like using dtilt against marths. His high shield doesn't block it simetimes and it can combo into uairs.

 

[ViciousEnd]

All I have to say is...


You better have read what I spent time to write up.

Yea, I def did, and I'm trying to internalize it. I'll try to demonstrate when I come up to Canada.

 

[RaynEX]

not relevant, but i like using dtilt against marths. His high shield doesn't block it simetimes and it can combo into uairs.

I really want to stress that trying to poke with laggy moves vs. a DD/grab based character is BAD. It could work, but that almost wholely depends on the Marth you're facing. If you have the spectacular advantage of playing against a Marth that can't avoid Fox's moves at dtilt range, then go crazy. Generally speaking, great Marths will know their spacing, and try their best to not be in lag right in front of Fox. Compared to Marth, Fox's range is minimal and he needs to get close to do good damage.

Another tell-tale sign the Marth knows what he's doing, is if he starts SHFFLing aerials at that range. In the air, he cuts off your nair, and ground moves are ineffectual. Welcome to the Marth MU.

If you want to use dtilts, the best way to use it is to punish badly spaced fairs (or tipped fairs at the right percents) with crouch cancelling. I use it all the time and it rarely fails if I decide to use it accordingly.

Yea, I def did, and I'm trying to internalize it. I'll try to demonstrate when I come up to Canada.

Glad to hear it. We'll be waiting for you in our igloos.