Need Help With Speech

[Sedda]

Hello everyone!

First off, I've been following this competitive scene (and Melee) for a couple of years, and I wanted to congratulate everyone for the awesome community you've created.

I'm doing a presentation of SSB 64 later this year for a communications class, and there's no better resource than this place.

I'm going to talk about the history of the game and other straightforward stuff like that, but I also wanted to teach some of the more advanced facts/technicalities/techniques that people who have played the game may not know.

It would be impossible for me to get people interested in learning the really advanced stuff, and it would also be difficult for them to even pick up some of it in a short span of time. This is where you guys come in. I need some advice on some of the deeper aspects of the game that are more conceptual rather than technical, if that makes sense. I'm interested in things that are simple enough that I can just 'show' them and they will get it right away. Aspects of the game where not much memorization of facts is necessary, if any.

The whole point of the speech is that I'm trying to raise awareness for equality of new industries and new leisure activities. In recent years, the whole division between the people who play video games ("geeks") and ones who don't has been disappearing, and it's just going to be a part of everyday life for most people, whether they play on their cellphone or on their TV.
Whenever there is an activity that is done by many, but not quite the majority of the population yet, their communities get picked on. For example, people blaming the video game industries as a major factor for mass shootings. I'm sure this used to happen to movies too, but it just reached a point where so many people go to the movie theater that when someone commits mass murder, they have probably been to the movies a few times in their life. Video games will reach that status sooner rather than later, and all that time the media has spent blaming video games will have been wasted when they could've put more focus on research for psychological issues.

The idea is to keep an open mind for the time that a new way to entertain ourselves arrives. Instead of using it as a scapegoat because most people aren't part of that community at first, it's important to look at the facts and try not to blame a community of people simply because "we've never done it before."

The speech is also supposed to deal with tolerance, and that will basically be linked to SSB64 through the amount of detail that one can learn about the game. I'm sure most people will see me as a huge "geek" when I get down to talk about this, but the point is that you can find detail in anything you choose to do in life. It's unfair to judge people because they like things that we don't or because they might be "too" into what we thought was supposed to be something simple.

Sorry about that whole wall of nonsense, but I had to explain myself to help whoever wants to help me understand my situation a bit better.

Also, this is kind of a big assignment, so... yeah. I DO need the help lol

Thanks in advance!

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Ok so I read that through once and then skimmed it again. Not totally sure what, exactly, you want people to reply with. You should summarize what you want in 3 sentences tops. You'll get a lot more replies if people don't have to read that wall over and over to see what you're asking for

Interesting thoughts though


Edit: You say, "I need some advice on some of the deeper aspects of the game that are more conceptual rather than technical"

Do you want people to talk about spacing, ledge guarding, hitstun -> combos, for example?

 

[Sedda]

Ok so I read that through once and then skimmed it again. Not totally sure what, exactly, you want people to reply with. You should summarize what you want in 3 sentences tops. You'll get a lot more replies if people don't have to read that wall over and over to see what you're asking for

Interesting thoughts though


Edit: You say, "I need some advice on some of the deeper aspects of the game that are more conceptual rather than technical"

Do you want people to talk about spacing, ledge guarding, hitstun -> combos, for example?

Yes, pretty much what you said.

I know I typed a lot of stuff, but... yeah I just didn't know how to explain it.

I want easily explainable aspects of the game that people who have played casually probably don't know about.

 

[kys]

You definitely came to the right place, but what you're asking is pretty hard. It's hard to know what level these people are at, and even harder to tailor anything to a "one size fits all", but I'll still try to give you something.

I would do a bit on what combos really are, and how hitstun plays a role. You could grab a few combo vids from youtube and point out how the combo meter rises. You could explain that the meter continues when hitting your opponent while they're still in hitstun. Obviously you would then explain what hitstun is, and in a really general way, how better players link moves together to keep hitstun and combos alive.

You could also throw in a section about weak hits (how some moves get stale the longer they're out), and how good players purposely use these to keep combos going.

IMO this would be entertaining, give you an opportunity to shamelessly plug a sweet combo vid, and explain in an easily digestible way the difference between someone who spams fsmash and a PRO.

Obviously there's more you could talk about, but I'll leave it at that.

 

[Battlecow]

talk about advanced techniques like Z-canceling and stuff (just in a real general way, like this is one thing that separates competitive players from casual)

might post more stuff later

 

[ballin4life]

I would talk about game theory and MINDGAMES. I think that's a lot more interesting than tech skill stuff. That's just me.

 

[Yobolight]

compare the game to king of the hill and everyone trying to push each other off.

 

[SheerMadness]

In my speech classes in college we usually had the opportunity to show a video or clip.

IMO this is your best bet to entertain people during a ssb64 speech. Show them some crazy training mode combos or in game combos.

I'm sure a lot of people in your class have played ssb64. And I'm sure none of them knew combos like that were possible. Go for that wow factor.

If you're not allowed clips I dunno.

 

[Cobrevolution]

that's too lowbrow.

i like ballin's idea.

however, i think it'd be worthwhile to go past the game. talk about the game itself as a concept; try to find information on how many other games made in this time period are still being played in their original forms with a good sized community and have an active competitive scene.

mention kaillera and how it it revolutionized competitive play. you no longer had to be restricted to a one to two state radius to play in tournaments; you could now play with people on other coasts, in other countries, etc.

i'm not sure how interested the audience would be if you talk about specific techniques like z cancels and stuff. BUT i think you should bring up how the game is played drastically different than what the developers intended. if possible, you should show a video of a one-stock one on one between two computers, then play like an Isai Boom match from last year's apex, to show just how far the game has been deviated.

actually, now that i think about it, i think that last thing i just said makes a lot of sense for a speech. if you're allowed extra media, of course.

if you want to talk about community, i mean, there is very little antagonism here - and i would point to other games (in my own experience, two dudes adml and borsh could out ****talk every single player on these boards - easily. it's why i don't pay any attention to what smasher or matts say, i've heard those lines a million times years before, it's nothing new) such as CoD or WoW to emphasize that. this place is a ****ing field of flowers with everyone sucking each other off and smiling at each other when compared to the eleven year olds who get CoD and mics for christmas by their idiotic parents.

you can talk about mindgames to the extent of their ability to throw other players off their own game.

how japan has different techniques with different characters - first time i saw a ness pkt2 shield break punish, for instance, was from nangoku at apex, though to be fair i don't watch many ness vids. or how rest isn't as strong (i think) and therefore not as good as a combo finisher?

but yeah, in terms of history, i guess you should talk about how it was and is drastically different from other fighting games, in terms of objective, design, and play style.

that's all i can think of right now but yeah

 

[ballin4life]

Read sirlin's playing to win and talk about that. Especially the art of war stuff.

 

[MattNF]

lol youre doing a class presentation on a video game? that's like social suicide

 

[WayneKnight]

Why 64 and not Melee? It's a far better example of a game where a community got together and discovered all the techniques with each other, all leading up to today where we fight for a spot in EVO, with our honor on the line in the eyes of those who always looked at us with scorn for playing something so different. Competitive 64, from what I can tell, is even smaller than the community for competitive Brawl. Competitive 64 is a side hobby for Melee players. Melee means money, sport, proving yourself on the battlefield, to a massive community, this board as evidence of much of its progress. However, 64 could be used as a comparison for how Smash was meant to be casual. In theory, back in 2001/2002, we were all noobs, we hadn't even figured out how to wavedash yet. We were all casuals and we fought, we got better, and we became celebrities in our respective circles. Many people made there name in sports, and this is where we made ours.

 

[Battlecow]

Why 64 and not Melee? It's a far better example of a game where a community got together and discovered all the techniques with each other, all leading up to today where we fight for a spot in EVO, with our honor on the line in the eyes of those who always looked at us with scorn for playing something so different. Competitive 64, from what I can tell, is even smaller than the community for competitive Brawl. Competitive 64 is a side hobby for Melee players. Melee means money, sport, proving yourself on the battlefield, to a massive community, this board as evidence of much of its progress. However, 64 could be used as a comparison for how Smash was meant to be casual. In theory, back in 2001/2002, we were all noobs, we hadn't even figured out how to wavedash yet. We were all casuals and we fought, we got better, and we became celebrities in our respective circles. Many people made there name in sports, and this is where we made ours.

Hey dude

This is the 64 section

You're being very rude. Please don't post here.

 

[M!nt]

Why 64 and not Melee? It's a far better example of a game where a community got together and discovered all the techniques with each other, all leading up to today where we fight for a spot in EVO, with our honor on the line in the eyes of those who always looked at us with scorn for playing something so different. Competitive 64, from what I can tell, is even smaller than the community for competitive Brawl. Competitive 64 is a side hobby for Melee players. Melee means money, sport, proving yourself on the battlefield, to a massive community, this board as evidence of much of its progress. However, 64 could be used as a comparison for how Smash was meant to be casual. In theory, back in 2001/2002, we were all noobs, we hadn't even figured out how to wavedash yet. We were all casuals and we fought, we got better, and we became celebrities in our respective circles. Many people made there name in sports, and this is where we made ours.

wow ive never been so offended lol

**** you

 

[asianaussie]

Why 64 and not Melee? It's a far better example of a game where a community got together and discovered all the techniques with each other, all leading up to today where we fight for a spot in EVO, with our honor on the line in the eyes of those who always looked at us with scorn for playing something so different. Competitive 64, from what I can tell, is even smaller than the community for competitive Brawl. Competitive 64 is a side hobby for Melee players. Melee means money, sport, proving yourself on the battlefield, to a massive community, this board as evidence of much of its progress. However, 64 could be used as a comparison for how Smash was meant to be casual. In theory, back in 2001/2002, we were all noobs, we hadn't even figured out how to wavedash yet. We were all casuals and we fought, we got better, and we became celebrities in our respective circles. Many people made there name in sports, and this is where we made ours.

because 64 is a cooler game

**** you and your simultaneously scrubby and elitist attitude, go back to specifically not donating for melee at evo, you ****

 

[M!nt]

Anyway, I don't get what you're trying to get across by talking about 64. That a game can be deeper than casual?

Gametheory and Predictions would be cool to talk about. Though they would be lost without knowing some of the more technical things. Clips would be good to catch people's attentions too, if possible. You could go step by step explaining what the player is doing like (djc,z-cancel,pivots,etc), things people might not see on the surface.

 

[Sedda]

Thanks for all the great information guys!!!

Yes, I'm allowed to show videos, and that's definitely my intent to get people more interested in the topic.

As for the social suicide thing, that's kind of the point of the presentation. To show people that it's not ok to judge others because they dig something that you think is a little too nerdy or whatever.

Why 64 and not Melee? It's a far better example of a game where a community got together and discovered all the techniques with each other, all leading up to today where we fight for a spot in EVO, with our honor on the line in the eyes of those who always looked at us with scorn for playing something so different. Competitive 64, from what I can tell, is even smaller than the community for competitive Brawl. Competitive 64 is a side hobby for Melee players. Melee means money, sport, proving yourself on the battlefield, to a massive community, this board as evidence of much of its progress. However, 64 could be used as a comparison for how Smash was meant to be casual. In theory, back in 2001/2002, we were all noobs, we hadn't even figured out how to wavedash yet. We were all casuals and we fought, we got better, and we became celebrities in our respective circles. Many people made there name in sports, and this is where we made ours.

Even as a non-competitive Smash player (I never attend tournaments or anything, but I have a group of friends with whom I play), that statement hurt me. The problem with competitive gaming in general is that people think they have permission to go around and classify how competitive their game is compared to the "other" ones. It's the community that makes a game competitive, not the game. If you take a look at the Pokemon videos from Apex, there's another prime example. I'm sure Nintendo and Game Freak never intended for Pokemon to be played in such strategic manner, but that's how far that community is willing to go to show appreciation for their game as they have fun. SSB64 is as competitive as any other Smash game, or any other competitive game at that. The problems arise when we try to apply subjective levels to competitiveness. Life doesn't work that way. Basketball is as competitive as Soccer.

The more simplistic answer to your question, though:
I started watching competitive SSB64 and Melee around two years ago. I can assure you than from the perspective of someone who had never seen competitive gameplay in action, SSB64 is a bit easier on the eyes because of the lack of some of the game mechanics present in Melee. This doesn't mean that either game is easier or harder to master than the other. It just means that SSB64 is more of a game where you can more or less tell what good players are doing a lot of the time, but that fact amazes you more because you can't do those things yourself. Some of the things that happen in high level Melee matches are so quick and require much more knowledge. If the audience doesn't know what to be impressed at, the won't be impressed. I also like the SSB64 competitive environment a bit more. Perhaps it's because it's smaller than the other two (?). I'd rather not question it.

Anyways, if anyone can give any more suggestions, please do so. This is great!
Thanks again for all your help.

 

[clubbadubba]

As far as technical stuff goes, I wouldn't actually explain anything other than z-canceling. Anything else would be too much to really grasp during a short speech. I would say something like "There are many advanced techniques that allow pros to move faster than the casual gamer. One such technique is z-canceling, which eliminates all landing lag." And then show a link dair comparison with and without z-canceling to illustrate it.

I think you should definitely show a lot of in game footage though. They don't have to know exactly what each player is doing, just the fact through the use of various advanced techs the pros are moving around and attacking much more quickly than casuals. Oh and combo's. Definitely LOTS of combos. Just so you know, casuals LOVE jigglypuff/luigi combos. Also anything that ends in falcon punch (look up Captain Tavo's falcon combo application video on youtube).

 

[Sedda]

As far as technical stuff goes, I wouldn't actually explain anything other than z-canceling. Anything else would be too much to really grasp during a short speech. I would say something like "There are many advanced techniques that allow pros to move faster than the casual gamer. One such technique is z-canceling, which eliminates all landing lag." And then show a link dair comparison with and without z-canceling to illustrate it.

I think you should definitely show a lot of in game footage though. They don't have to know exactly what each player is doing, just the fact through the use of various advanced techs the pros are moving around and attacking much more quickly than casuals. Oh and combo's. Definitely LOTS of combos. Just so you know, casuals LOVE jigglypuff/luigi combos. Also anything that ends in falcon punch (look up Captain Tavo's falcon combo application video on youtube).

Will do.

What about a simplistic take on priority? As in: "You probably don't want to be under x character for too long."

 

[asianaussie]

one or two simple examples will work well, eg. you never want to be above a grounded kirby, but when he's in the air his options change drastically and being above him is safe

 

[Sedda]

Awesome. Thanks!

 

[clubbadubba]

Also something simple like don't get caught using ness's character in actual gameplay.

You should record the speech and put it up so we can see it!

 

[Sedda]

You should record the speech and put it up so we can see it!

All speeches for the class will be video recorded. I will definitely let you guys see it (If it doesn't suck terribly).

 

[WayneKnight]

Hey hey hey, whoa guys. I just personally thought it might be a better example. But 64 players are smashers too and have also all fought for there place and recognition. I didn't mean to discredit anyone. Also... I am a little embarrassed to admit that I had so many tabs open I didn't even realize I was in the 64 section. I was honestly trying to praise everyone, but I honestly thought a more recognized game would drive the point of the speech home better. If it's just a matter of preference, love of 64, or familiarity, that's perfectly fine. I just was wondering why pick 64 or melee for the purpose of the essay, if you want to show how far a community of gamers can go to support eachother. Melee, 64, and Brawl are all part of the smash ecosystem, and now that I REALIZE where the **** I am, I am sorry. You guys probably play 64 as your main game, and I bet you all could kick my *** in 64 any day of the week.

Thanks for all the great information guys!!!

Yes, I'm allowed to show videos, and that's definitely my intent to get people more interested in the topic.

As for the social suicide thing, that's kind of the point of the presentation. To show people that it's not ok to judge others because they dig something that you think is a little too nerdy or whatever.



Even as a non-competitive Smash player (I never attend tournaments or anything, but I have a group of friends with whom I play), that statement hurt me. The problem with competitive gaming in general is that people think they have permission to go around and classify how competitive their game is compared to the "other" ones. It's the community that makes a game competitive, not the game. If you take a look at the Pokemon videos from Apex, there's another prime example. I'm sure Nintendo and Game Freak never intended for Pokemon to be played in such strategic manner, but that's how far that community is willing to go to show appreciation for their game as they have fun. SSB64 is as competitive as any other Smash game, or any other competitive game at that. The problems arise when we try to apply subjective levels to competitiveness. Life doesn't work that way. Basketball is as competitive as Soccer.

The more simplistic answer to your question, though:
I started watching competitive SSB64 and Melee around two years ago. I can assure you than from the perspective of someone who had never seen competitive gameplay in action, SSB64 is a bit easier on the eyes because of the lack of some of the game mechanics present in Melee. This doesn't mean that either game is easier or harder to master than the other. It just means that SSB64 is more of a game where you can more or less tell what good players are doing a lot of the time, but that fact amazes you more because you can't do those things yourself. Some of the things that happen in high level Melee matches are so quick and require much more knowledge. If the audience doesn't know what to be impressed at, the won't be impressed. I also like the SSB64 competitive environment a bit more. Perhaps it's because it's smaller than the other two (?). I'd rather not question it.

Anyways, if anyone can give any more suggestions, please do so. This is great!
Thanks again for all your help.

Thank you for actually somewhat understanding the intention of my post. And that's a great point you made about one game not being more competitive than an other. I just basically figured that with bigger numbers, it would seem more impressive to the non-hardcore crowd you are likely presenting for. I personally don't know how big 64 really is, but I don't see it around nearly as much, personally. That is the only reason I suggested to favor Melee over 64. I do not think one game is more merited than the other.

For ****s sake, I still play every smash bros, they are all still relevant to me. I don't think one game is better than the other. I'm not sure where I went wrong, I was stating observations, some of which I can see now are very incorrect, but I didn't think I could have possibly, truly offended anyone, let alone.... everyone. But 64 is probably close to your hearts, and you have all fought and trained, and taken it very seriously. I am very aware that 64 has also come incredibly far, also all with techniques discovered by the user base, and that this forum is also evidence of that. If your fondness of 64 is what inspired you, than go for it! It's not any more or less legitimate than any other game, I just thought you might get more wows from Melee, because when I first saw Melee, I saw how much different there play was from my play, and how weird it looked. I was impressed and it made me want to learn to get better. But I am sure there are people who will experience the same thing during your 64 presentation. Melee just looks more... strange, which I thought might get peoples attention more possibly.

 

[asianaussie]

64's community is positively tiny, which is why everyone exploded at you trying to divert this guy's attention away from the game that this subforum is about

what you posted offended plenty of people, you basically derided the game as a side-hobby of melee players and called the game something 'meant to be casual'

plus you kept comparing it to brawl

 

[Pooncahontas]

some main things I think would be good to talk about.
& I'm sort of assuming, as with most speeches/assignments/etc. that the topic (Smash64) is just a means to get across deeper social themes. As in, you're not gonna get an A+ for explaining how to play a specific video game.

- the fact that Kaillera has "revived" the game in recent years, and allowed people to play each other over larger distances. Maybe talk about how that is implementing new technology (netplay) with an old console game, to extend it's longevity.

- as with many competitive games, a meta has evolved. so for example back in 2005 people were generally using different tactics & characters, and different style of play was evident. also, talk about how metas can evolve differently when isolated. like the fancy Falcons of Peru, and the Kirbys and DKs of Japan. and the pikas and Foxes in Merica.

- possibly talk about the development stages of a Smash player as they play the game. how first you just button mash, then you learn moves and characters, then advanced techniques and combos are mastered, and then open ended mind games and DI develops last.

- smash is such a unique game. one of the only true sandbox fighter platformers (that's how I like to define smash C: ) and how other games like PlebStation ALL STARTS Battle Arena is a bad game and sucks, and smash is way better and anyone who thinks otherwise is a braindead moron.

- also mention Isai. he's put too much time and effort and heart into this game not to be mentioned. and he's da best 4eva. *trlfce.jpg*

 

[Sedda]

some main things I think would be good to talk about.
& I'm sort of assuming, as with most speeches/assignments/etc. that the topic (Smash64) is just a means to get across deeper social themes. As in, you're not gonna get an A+ for explaining how to play a specific video game.

- the fact that Kaillera has "revived" the game in recent years, and allowed people to play each other over larger distances. Maybe talk about how that is implementing new technology (netplay) with an old console game, to extend it's longevity.

- as with many competitive games, a meta has evolved. so for example back in 2005 people were generally using different tactics & characters, and different style of play was evident. also, talk about how metas can evolve differently when isolated. like the fancy Falcons of Peru, and the Kirbys and DKs of Japan. and the pikas and Foxes in Merica.

- possibly talk about the development stages of a Smash player as they play the game. how first you just button mash, then you learn moves and characters, then advanced techniques and combos are mastered, and then open ended mind games and DI develops last.

- smash is such a unique game. one of the only true sandbox fighter platformers (that's how I like to define smash C: ) and how other games like PlebStation ALL STARTS Battle Arena is a bad game and sucks, and smash is way better and anyone who thinks otherwise is a braindead moron.

- also mention Isai. he's put too much time and effort and heart into this game not to be mentioned. and he's da best 4eva. *trlfce.jpg*

Yeah, absolutely. I will also include social aspects of the game. The speech will more or less start within the game and make its way to the social bias issue and how all the things that the community has built transcend the game and have made it into something that stands out brighter than the game itself back in the day, even when everyone still had their N64 consoles.

I won't address the Playstation All-Stars thing, because that would be hypocritical of me. I said in an earlier post that all games can be as equally competitive. Actually, the guy behind PSASBR admires the Smash community, and he talked about how easy it would be for them to win a spot on EVO during a podcast, but the point is not to engineer a community. Buying your way to success is not really how competitive gaming communities are born, and he completely understands that. Respect for the guy.

As for Isai... I mean, c'mon. How can you not think of Isai when thinking about SSB64?

Thank you for your suggestions!!!


I'm really glad that you guys welcomed me with open arms. Smashboards ftw

 

[WayneKnight]

64's community is positively tiny, which is why everyone exploded at you trying to divert this guy's attention away from the game that this subforum is about

what you posted offended plenty of people, you basically derided the game as a side-hobby of melee players and called the game something 'meant to be casual'

plus you kept comparing it to brawl

By meant to be casual, I meant by way of Sakurai's design. He meant it to be casual, just like Melee, and like Brawl. But that doesn't mean that the games -are- casual. I can see how I came off wrong. And from my observation, 64 does tend to be a side hobby of Melee players, but that doesn't mean that people don't dedicate heartfelt effort into playing it, some moreso than Melee. I just figured that went without saying that 64 is an incredibly important community to a lot of people. I'll get out of here and stop derailing, I really am sorry, and if I hadn't... sorta forgotten what board I was on in the first place, I wouldn't have mentioned Melee at all in the first place.

Good luck with your essay Sedda. A lot of good hints and criticisms here. I'm outta here.

 

[Sedda]

Good luck with your essay Sedda. A lot of good hints and criticisms here. I'm outta here.

It's a speech, but I do appreciate all the support.

 

[Sedda]

Hey guys, the presentation wasn't recorded unfortunately, but it went great! Thanks to everyone who helped me out (especially Koro, who answered some questions for me a few weeks ago).

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

if you want to talk about community, i mean, there is very little antagonism here - and i would point to other games (in my own experience, two dudes adml and borsh could out ****talk every single player on these boards - easily. it's why i don't pay any attention to what smasher or matts say, i've heard those lines a million times years before, it's nothing new) such as CoD or WoW to emphasize that. this place is a ****ing field of flowers with everyone sucking each other off and smiling at each other when compared to the eleven year olds who get CoD and mics for christmas by their idiotic parents.

64 community/smash community in a nutshell. (No seriously)

np, was fun to talk about

 

[The Star King]

Let's grab dinner sometime Koro

If you marry me you could change your last name to "Korobskiy". Then even non-smashers will call you Koro. That's a pretty good deal IMO.

 

[Cobrevolution]

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

........Wat

and no