Need help vs lucario

[Speedwobbles223]

Alright im turning to DK as my main, and really like him, and although theres a few tough matchups, my friend plays lucairo and gets me with the air game.

I do good keeping some space between us with f-tilt and d-tilt, but I cannot do anything against lucario's D-air, sure I can air dodge, but I cant seem to make any offensive against it.

I dont think his U-tilt beats it priority or range wise, and the U-Smash gets my *** kicked.

Also having similar problems against lucario's U-Smash, those hitboxes dont go well with DK's large size

EDIT: ok im using the F-Air correctly now, but when is his n-air appropriate? I never seem to get in a situation where its needed


Im slightly above novice level and am trying to move up, any help is appreciated

 

[Veggi]

For Lucario I always approach by f tilting him and his projectiles, and in the air I think the best option would be to attack him with b air. Also, he gets better as his damage goes up, so try to kill him quickly with spikes.

 

[Speedwobbles223]

I do B-air a lot, try to cargo spike whenever I can. BTW, you know a video that showcases the cargo spike a lot, I would like to show my friend.


I still need help with a few moves like his N-Air which seems to have little to no use for me, and I underuse his side B a lot. Is it bad to be using his D-smash often? It seems to be harder to punish then some of the other moves and a good conversion from distance game to medium damage range

 

[Veggi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBFYW1xmlZQ&feature=related
^^
This video has stage spiking in it, but not a whole lot of it. I feel bad for the Luigi. : (
Also fair has a bunch of lag and is hard to land on the ground. That's why nair is good for DK. Also I don't use side b much either, but the side b meteor smash is the only one that can be done when your opponent appears right in front of you. It can also be used when your opponent is about at like 60% or when you see his shield is low, because two of them will break a shield. I think a bair+side b will break a shield too. Always keep a giant punch ready when you use it though. Just don't over use it, or you will become predictable, but a landed side b often means death. It's just difficult to land. Also down smash is a good move, but if you can substitute another move just as easy. Use the other one so your moves don't stale.

 

[Kalm]

Lucario is a tough match against DK. He's one of the few opponents that can pressure DK and have a lot of options to punish DK's offense. If Lucario is spamming projectiles, turn around and backwards short hop over them. Practice doing this and get to the point where you can hop over them all and Bair him. Lucario doesn't slide as much as other characters when shielding and he grabs fast. Make sure you space Bair very well so you can't be grabbed. Keep pressuring him with Bair until he decides to make a move, then react. A properlly spaced Bair should outrange any anticipated aerial attack. If you want to stay on the gound keep your back to him and use Ftilt. The hitbox behind DK defends against a lot of aerials. Both of these attacks can punish Dair, with correct placement.

Another way to aproach is with spinning kong. The super armor and constant hitbox works well against many projectiles, and it's hard to defend against and punish. Use it while sliding forward on the ground. If the Lucario is stationary and waiting for you to attack, use Ftilt and Handslap. Handslap is especially good when they're near a ledge. Finally, the Giant's Punch is a nasty trump card and an effective counter attack. With good movement and timing you can take the brunt of a projectile and send the opponent sailing. This is also hard to punish even when shielded. Use it with a running short hop for the greatest effect.

Only use Nair when the opponent is in the air not too far over the ground, and then jump directly into him and initiate the attack. Don't hesitate to pressure him while hes in the air, your Bair is deadly when used correctly, only a good air dodge can save Lucario, he cannot out attack you if you time yourself well. Your best bet in the overall fight is spacing, don't stay right in his face all the time, but don't let too much distance come between you either.

I hope this helps. Happy Hunting and happy DKing.

 

[Speedwobbles223]

Thanks so much, man though, DK's tilts are amazing, you can rack up so much damage between f-tilt and d-tilt. And having the cargo spike is such a good easy option to have. I dont know why DK isnt used very much, maybe because he suffers from some tough matchups in a projectile game, but im really liking him as my new main.

Might as well prolong the discussion as the DK boards arent all that popular and i still have some questions. In the "No monkeying around tutorial" the first thing was pivot drop, I know it involved fast falling and turning right away, how vital is it? Im sure I could get it if I practiced but some tech's ive noticed take much more exertion then they are worth.

Is shorthopping necesary for a DK user? It seems really obvious when you backwards shorthop to an opponennt, you might as well just announce your gonna b-air.


And another question, when your on the ledge can you choose the attack you are going to do in the animation where you pull yourself back to the stage? Or is the copter ledge recovery pretty much always the better option

 

[Kalm]

That reminds me. Dtilt has a chance to trip, with good timing you can Dtile and then Fsmash or Giant Punch, have fun.

Cargo spike is extremely hard to do against a low % person, more or less so depending on how good they are at breaking free. It's good, use it. Other throw options are Dthrow to Ftilt to Hand Slap. Mix those three up and win. Bthrow kills at 150% and no staleness, keep it as an option when you're tired of an opponent living. Cargo Dthrow on the ground is useful for mind games, and cargo Uthrow can still be good for combo and pressure.

I don't remember reading about a pivot drop, though I may likely be doing it without realizing what it is. I'll leave it to someone else or comment on it later.

Yes, short hopping is something you always want to be able to do on command, along with reverse short hopping. Get flawlessly good at it. Yes the Bair is obvious a lot of the time.... so? With proper spacing its almost impossible to punish for many characters, show them how that. They either shield forever and it breaks and the fail, or they have to attack you and you have options of your own. Such as.... Bairing them then. Seriously though Bair is where it's at. Don't forget what I said about Ftilt though, that's some good stuff. With your back turned Ftilt defends very well against aerials.

I just watched 2 minutes of space ghost coast to coast and my mind fried. Watch my DK videos linked in my sig, you might learn something. Or I might advertise, either way someone wins.

Oh yeah, DK can drop, jump, and Giant Punch from the ledge and grab it again if done right. Other than that low % ledge attack is hard to beat because of it's speed and range, and the movement of DK's body. Coptering back to the stage in a fashion that doesn't make DK fall on his butt is great too, master it.

 

[Speedwobbles223]

Ah sorry to ask so many questions but how exactly do you cancel/mitigate copter lag? Do you just trying to stay close to the ground so you dont land on your back?

And I will have to experiment with cargo-u throw and cargo d-throw, I usualyl just go with the forward one. More options are always good.

And hmm, maybe its me but I see no DK videos linked off your sig, I checked your profile too, I would definitly subscribe to you and check those out though, thanks so much!

 

[Kalm]

I have two links in my sig. One for my fiction and one for my videos, I just check the video link and it works, try again.

I should have already told you this. Yes copter lag is avoided from the animation of the attack ending just over the ground. To do this from the ledge, press the direction opposite of the ledge (not down) to fall back off of it, then jump and begin copter. At this point it isn't too hard to stall copter and then approach the stage to the point where you whirl on it for just a moment and then the attack ends. The ending lag is so small I've coptered onto the stage and killed people with downsmash as soon as I get near them. It can be punished though, be warned.

 

[Kalm]

I don't feel like editing. My youtube account is Kalmx13, in case you can't get the link to work for some reason.

 

[The Unlawful Salmon]

I've played the Lucario match up more than any other match up, and can say DK definetely has a 5-10% edge in this match. It's closer to 5% when your both characters are at their best. I won't reiterate all of Kalm's info, but I have to add my points of advice too:
-Practice spacing and attacking Lucario while not getting shield grabbed.
-Bair, bair, and bair some more.
-One of your best kill moves vs him is your Dsmash.
-Lucario always lags after he does most of his big attacks, punish him! If you can land a F-smash on him he can die as early as 60%. Learning when to land these is a big plus!
-If Lucario can keep you off the stage constantly to the left or right you will lose.
Don't let him play that game, keep him in the center of the stage. <<<(This is huge piece of overlooked advice.)
-Besides avoiding getting shield grabbed by Lucario, also avoid getting Fair'd over and over. Especially off of the stage. This is one of his best juggling moves vs you. Avoid it whenever you can!
-Remember to finish him whenever he gets at 80-100%+, don't let him get powered up... Finish him!
-And last but not least: Use DK's weight to your advantage, it's easy to kill Lucario at around 80-120%, while he can have trouble killing you until around 160-200%. You almost live 1.5 times as long weight-wise as he does!

 

[Brahma]

THe biggest problem I was having at first with this fight was Dair. Once you learn when he'll use Dair, just shield it and Utilt/Dsmash punish it. This can become a problem though since DK gets shield poked easily and after a few Fair to Dair shields you'll have some trouble shielding without getting hit. Work on your powershields.

Also, Bair a lot.

His UpB is crap. It has no hitbox, so it is probably the easiest recovery to edgehog if you know he doesn't have the distance to make it back on the stage. If he can make it to the edge, edgehog anyways and then after he UpBs to the stage, jump from the ledge and Uair/Nair or Punch. Just be careful if he has hit second jump, as he can jump to the ledge and Dair stage spike you. Some good ways to get Lucario off the stage are CSS, and walkoff Cargo Dthrow.

Watch out up close, as Lucario can chain SideB throws on you for some decent damage.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

really, lucario has not given me toomany problems, if you get an early ko you should be in the clear, as that will screw up his game big time, if you got the basics down the only thing that can really give you problems is dair, and thats just if you utilt a lot. he's pretty easy to gimp, and if he's on a platform usmash kills him before 80 (75ish uncharged), if hes by the edge the punch and your fsmash will also kill very early