Need a little help with Lucas and Ness

[Yerka90]

Hi guys and girls. In about one month im going to have a private brawl tournament with my friends. Some of my friends are beginners that i have trained and others are equally strong and skilled as me. I have a little problem with two characters called Lucas and Ness.

Could anyone give me some advice how to counter their attacks with my Zamus moves. Would really appriciate it

Hail Zero suit Samus

 

[Barge]

Avoid his upsmash. Thats all I can really help you with, I haven't ever fought a pro ZSS D:

 

[Kyriel]

Get used to how they move. Basically once you get a feel for their moveset, you should not have too trouble with this fight. Be wary that Lucas' PK1 can spike you, especially if you're hanging on your tether.

 

[FadedImage]

I haven't played a lot against Lucas, but I've never had trouble against him either. Can't really help with that match-up...

However, my doubles partner is a Ness, so I play that match-up pretty much all the time. Don't challenge his approaches, Ness's fair ***** anything/everything you have. It can be difficult to punish his approaches if he spaces correctly, but unless he spot dodges every time he lands, you should be able to get a grab on him as he retreats after a fair. Once you're at high percent, he's probably going to go for backthrow, so just bait the grab and punish. When you edge guard him, since the PKT2 takes a fairly long time to start up, if you see that he's pretty low below the stage and has to aim for the edge, just fall off and tether, he won't be able to sweetspot, and instead he'll bounce off. Umm, that's about it, oh, and watch out for Psi Magnet, he can absorb your D-Smash; highly unlikely, but just thought you should know.

 

[ph00tbag]

When you edge guard him, since the PKT2 takes a fairly long time to start up, if you see that he's pretty low below the stage and has to aim for the edge, just fall off and tether, he won't be able to sweetspot, and instead he'll bounce off.

Be careful with this, though, because he can easily take you with him.

 

[Bouse]

Be careful with this, though, because he can easily take you with him.

Retract the tether as he heads towards the ledge. Zamus gets invincibility frames when she grabs the ledge. It's like a semi-Zair edgeguard except with up+b. You can FF+Up+B to edgeguard people too. Though it's not as risky on stages like Yoshi's Island and Final Destination, on stages without a large base that you can Flip Jump off of it's not recommended.

Lucas is all about spacing him well. Wait for him to go for a smash and then punish him. Also with either character get them off the stage and if they're close enough just side+b them when they're using their recovery. Also one good thing is that if you spot dodge a lot of his approaches he has similar downtime with his grab. Use that moment for a lil' double down smash action.

 

[ph00tbag]

Retract the tether as he heads towards the ledge. Zamus gets invincibility frames when she grabs the ledge. It's like a semi-Zair edgeguard except with up+b. You can FF+Up+B to edgeguard people too. Though it's not as risky on stages like Yoshi's Island and Final Destination, on stages without a large base that you can Flip Jump off of it's not recommended.

I know. I'm just saying that you'll have to work on the timing. If you do it too early, he can still knock you off the edge. Too late, and he can still hit you on the tether.

 

[Bouse]

I wasn't saying it so much as a response to you, but more as a clarification on what you were saying.

 

[FadedImage]

I know. I'm just saying that you'll have to work on the timing. If you do it too early, he can still knock you off the edge. Too late, and he can still hit you on the tether.

hrm, I just don't retract it at all. If he decides that he'll shoot towards me I'd rather take the hit, tech the stage, let him die, and be on my merry way.

 

[Airgemini]

hrm, I just don't retract it at all. If he decides that he'll shoot towards me I'd rather take the hit, tech the stage, let him die, and be on my merry way.

That sounds dumb.
Why take the chance of dying when you know you can get to the edge and gain invincibilty frames? And if he's aiming towards you why would you even want to get hit by him? Say he hits you and you happen to forget to tech it?

Doesnt make that much sense.

 

[fired nunjaz]

it won't be much of a challenge as zero suit samus is good for evasion as her down b is very good and btw when your in the air press b to do a flying kick

 

[Tezmata]

it won't be much of a challenge as zero suit samus is good for evasion as her down b is very good and btw when your in the air press b to do a flying kick

*deep sigh*

 

[FadedImage]

That sounds dumb.
Why take the chance of dying when you know you can get to the edge and gain invincibilty frames? And if he's aiming towards you why would you even want to get hit by him? Say he hits you and you happen to forget to tech it?

Doesnt make that much sense.

Because like ph00t said, you don't have any invincibility when you're reeling yourself in and PKT2 has a gigantic hitbox. In general, a Ness player isn't going to think of aiming at the person hanging there, so it's not really a risk. Whereas, it's more risky to actually reel in and hope you timed the frames right.

 

[Airgemini]

But in your post you said that you'd rather take the hit if he's aiming towards you. Thats what Im talking about.

 

[James Sparrow]

your tilts and dash attack along with your other A moves that aren't smashes are your friends in this matchup. if you can beat him close up, you're doing well. he can outspam you from afar, and can absorb your gun and downsmash. i have a few videos of me playing against seanson (a pretty good lucas) on youtube.

 

[FBM]

I don't play all that much against Ness, but one of my friends plays Lucas, so I've played against him a fair bit.

Don't overuse the B paralyser vs him - PSI Magnet absorbs it and his fsmash reflects it BUT if he's a PK fire spammer, you can use it to break the fire (if he sees you doing this a lot, he might try to mindgame you into the magnet or smash tho).

Space him a LOT with the sideB. He's too strong up close to close the distance w/o being given an opening.

Beware of chasing him from underneath; even at low %, you can't follow down throw with a upair, b/c his dair comes out too fast. Dashing upsmashes or upB's are your best bet from under him (unless you are punishing a bad air dodge or aeriel of course).

His PK Thunder makes for a very annoying ledge guard if he's good with it. If you need to use your downB to recover, you it before you see him starting a thunder, b/c it's too easy to catch and save your jump(s) till later.

Neither of you have amazing grabs, but yours is longer; not the easiest thing to exploit, but keep it in mind.

 

[ph00tbag]

Space him a LOT with the sideB. He's too strong up close to close the distance w/o being given an opening.

Not a good plan. SH PKF outranges you by a mile. This one is a lot more about coming in with shields and stuff. Lucas is tough to approach, but IMO he's beatable.

Dsmash if he ever whiffs usmash. That's obvious. There are a lot of Lucas players (even high level ones) that way overuse that move.

 

[7thFonon]

I have no problem with Ness, Lucas however is a little different. All because of one single move that throws my entire game out of wack. Lucas's Neutral Air. I have only found one solution to it if you block short hop Neutral A : roll away from it. I can't figure out any way to punish this attack, AT ALL. When you block a short hop neutral Air, your shield recieves 8 blows until Lucas hits the ground. If Lucas starts this neutral A early in his short hop, there is NO lag at all. He can easily pull of any tilt in his arsenal right after that OR do short hop Neutral Air again. This Kills my shield in just 2 attacks.

I used to fight my buddy up close, but now I have to distance myself and throw B attacks because of that single move. I have a newer video of me playing him (after I learned that he will Neutral Air spam me) and I feel that I'm just trying to distance myself the whole game. I think during my second stock, he actually tries to pull off some neutral Airs on me but I roll away. But I hate that, because I know his same attack pattern is Neutral Air to another neutral Air / Neutral Air to neutral A's.... It's just frustrating that I know what he's going to do but still can't punish it.... All I can do is run away...The worst thing about this attack is that its tough to spot dodge and if you roll, you can still get hit as Lucas has strong DI in the air with this move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuE3P2vSXB4 That's the video of us playing.... but really, it doesn't show a lot of what happens when I try to stay too close for too long. Obviously this isn't a huge problem as I can distance myself, but I would still like to know a better option than rolling / jumping out of shield to punish this attack.

 

[Levitas]

Punish Nair by spacing against it. SH back with a side b works, SH fair works, utilt probably works.

Nair is a really low priority move.

Also, you're talking about aerial control, not DI. DI is manipulating your trajectory when you get hit.

 

[7thFonon]

Sorry, I should have specified that I meant from blocking the attack. But yeah, I did a lot of spacing from Lucas so he wouldn't do that to me if you saw the video..... maybe a little too much spacing xD .